air horns

[waizenegger]

What are your thoughts on air horns that attach to your BC? Are there only two types under water and above? Are there any that do both?

[roturner]

waizenegger once bubbled...
What are your thoughts on air horns that attach to your BC? Are there only two types under water and above? Are there any that do both?

My first thought is that they make a lot of noise and they're irritating. Why you would need one under water is beyond me anyway. If you practice buddy skills you don't need them. It strikes me as yet another case of throwing a gadget at a skills problem.

On the surface you may need a signalling device. I don't see anything wrong with a whistle for that. Best thing about a whistle is that it's low tech and will work even if for some odd reason you tank happens to be empty.

R..

[Sprinter]

Always thought a whistle would do as well although an air horn is louder and more convenient.

I would think the only time you need it underwater is if you're leading a group. I signed up for a DM course and it is required. I guess comes with responsibility.

[jbb]

the above water horns (dive alert- made in Seattle) are much louder than any whistle and are very good if you surface far from the boat. i have one but haven't actually needed it yet fortunately. i don't think there is any such thing for below water. the below water device is more of an air actuated hammer. i have no personal experience with them but have heard they fail after about a year due to corrosion.

jason

[erwin]

Dive Alert by ideations is much louder than a whistle and can be heard from a kilometer or so. Therefore if you use the dive alert the recommendation is that you keep your ears below the water. It may only be used for surface signaling. I have never used it before so I would not know about its reliability.

As to underwater horns ( or mini-hammerheads as we call them ):

I have been using u/w horns since 1996 and I can definitely give you advice on these:

The horn is quite useful especially if you are an instructor or a divemaster.

Of the ones I have used before I can tell you the following:

1. Sea Hornet Mini-Hammerhead - Sorry to say but this model is not very reliable. The ones I used both cracked within a year and those that friends bought also experienced the same problem. The bigger problem was that there were no parts in the dive stores. Fortunately we were able to source the parts from a local hardware store. I was about to give up on hammerheads when:

2. Apollo mini-hammerhead - came along. Owned one since '99 and have had no problems with the Apollo since I bought it. I know that Apollo is not a brand that is regularly found in the dive stores but try asking your lds as it is very reliable and parts are plentiful. Sadly, it was stolen when I went to a dive resort this year so I had to buy a new one.

3. B. Heard - I had never heard of this brand before I saw a friend using one. In my opinion it is a copy of the Apollo ( or vice-versa ). The parts are interchangeable with the apollo so I guess it would not be a problem to service it.

Bottom line: Check with your LDS if they have spare parts. It is very easy to fix so all you need are the parts.

Aquatec of Taiwan claims that they have a horn that can be used both U/W and on the surface but I have not used it before and doubt that they would have a distributor in your area.

Hope this was of use to you.:)

[mleong]

The one from Aquatec is call the Scub Alert, sells for 59.95 (Ithink). I works both under and above water. Can contact aquatec for a dealer nearby. www.aquatec.com

michael

[Kev Martin]

I tend to agree with roturner. Using an air horn underwater does seem to be throwing a gadet at a skills problem.

Instructing in the UK, degraded visibility means that it is imperative that I keep my students in sight at all times. This is a skill that my Divemasters and myself have worked at and can now accomplish with much success. Having an air horn that works underwater is not going to be of much help to me in the case of lost divers. Yes, you will be able to hear me blasting out my mating call but you are not going to know just exactly from where! Back to training - if you become lost or seperated - don't bluster around underwater trying to locate the source of that air horn - search for no longer than one minute and then make a controlled ascent to the surface, make yourself positively buoyant and await your instructors arrival. I can guarantee that I will sound off louder than any air horn!!

Sprinter, I am suprised that it is a required piece of equipment for your DM course. I would suggest that responsibility will better be served by tight buddy controls and an application of all of the skills you have learned right up to this point without your having had to use such a gadget. I cannot shake the mental image of a class of DMs all sounding off at once with their respective air horns! Use of them during the duck hunting season could be interesting?!

As to the use of an air horn on the surface, the Health and Safety Executive here in the UK, along with the Maritime Coastguard Agency, Royal National Lifeboat Institute and the Armed Forces came up with a very extensive piece of research in which they looked at all forms of surface observation devices.

During the tests performed in a variety of sea conditions it was found that the whistle had limited success. Firstly, having to blow the whistle in a relatively rough sea state meant that the diver had no air source in place and water was inhaled making the experience uncomfortable and stressful. If the surface cover (boat or shore support) were some distance from the distressed diver, it was found that wave height would actually inhibit the distance the whistle could be heard from.

Using an air horn would indeed mean that the diver could keep their air source in place but, again, depending on the sea state the distance the sound carried could be diminished. It was also difficult to determine the source of the horn. (Diver low in the water, large waves hiding the diver, wind activity).

Interestingly enough, the final analysis came to the conclusion that, of all the surface observation devices tested, a fluorescent yellow flag attached to a metre long pole with a strobe attached to the top of the flag was the most effective piece of equipment a diver could use. I think the meaning was clear - don't rely on just being heard - make sure that you can be seen.

I suppose the bottom line would be that if you have the money and can afford to lavish yourself with safety gadgets, purchase something that will get you see and then think about being heard.

Safe diving, all.

[Doc Intrepid]

regarding air horns that attach to Bouyancy Compensator Devices are that they are tools in a tool box. They will be of value under certain circumstances, and perhaps be of no value under most others.

Remember that charter dive boats that go out sometimes many miles offshore are often filling tanks off compressors or running electrical generators. Gilliam (2000) describes a diver being swept past a boat anchored on a wreck in swift current, in an incident where a mate could not hear yells or whistles over a compressor running on the stern.

Airhorns like the Dive Alert are significantly louder than whistles.

If you are heading off on a trip involving a remote live boat, liveaboard, or offshore charter, I view an airhorn as inexpensive life insurance. Under those circumstances it might save you considerable distress.

Under most other circumstances airhorns may be of limited value.

I don't perceive them to be either consistently useful or consistently of little value. It depends on the circumstances.

Doc

[Genesis]

DO work underwater. I've tested mine (not in distress, but just to know.)

Their range is very limited underwater, but that's ok - that's not what they're designed for.

ABOVE water they are EXTREMELY loud. So much so that you had better stick your head below the surface before you sound it, or you risk ear damage!

They produce a high-pitched screech that cannot be mistaken for any ordinary kind of noise on the water, and can be heard a LOOOONG way away.

Of course you have to have air in your tank for it to work.

I take mine if there is a possibility of being separated from the boat during an offshore dive, as having one if you need it could save you from a very long drift - or even your life.

[Charlie99]

Genesis once bubbled...
ABOVE water they are EXTREMELY loud. So much so that you had better stick your head below the surface before you sound it, or you risk ear damage!

They produce a high-pitched screech that cannot be mistaken for any ordinary kind of noise on the water, and can be heard a LOOOONG way away. I ended up using one after a boat in Cozumel couldn't see the DM waving his flourescent green fin or slapping/splashing water from about 1/3 mile away. The problem was that they were looking upcurrent and we had gone back out to the wall for another 20 minutes of drift after dropping off the rest of the group, other DM, and the DM's safety sausage. I had my personal sausage, but took advantage of the situation to test the Dive Alert.

A 3 second blast on the dive alert was clearly heard over the boat engine. As Genesis says, it cannot be mistaken for any ordinary kind of noise. "Godawful screech" was the most common phrase used by the other divers on the boat to describe the sound. It was loud enough that they were surprised at how far away we were.

IMHO, sound and visual signals complement each other. If you come up at a time or place other than expected, the surface support crew may not be looking and even a very visible signal may not be seen. Ears, however, are always listening.

[joele]

i agree with most of the posts, however not to every content...
though it may be regarded as a throwing-a-gadget-at-skills-problem thingamajig, it can really be useful, especially to instructors and divemasters who would guide divers new to the site...

perhaps it's how you use these gadgets...
the thing is the reasoning is like just because you're good enough, you no longer have to use these safety gadgets...

further, i believe the key should be communication underwater should be established before even entering the water...
i think this is one of the things some, if not a lot of, experienced divers take for granted...

of course, you don't need to use the airhorns if you have good communication with your buddy underwater, but it will sure be more than useful if emergencies aries...
i, for one, don't use air horns, but i can see their usefulness...
and since it consumes air, it will be wise that divers don't be as trigger happy as to use it almost the whole duration of the dive...

dive safe... live to dive again...
...else, we split your gear... hehe...

[Matthew]

I think an underwater horn is not a necessity. We certainly can safely dive without them. But as Erwin says they can be very useful for instructors and DMs. This is not necessarily in emergency situations, but during the regular course of a dive, especially training dives. One short blast and the instructor/dm can instantly get the attention of all divers in the group, each of whom may be looking in different directions. The instructor/dm may then proceed to signal any or all divers to stop, get with buddy, check remaining air, check mistakes, (e.g. finning techniques), point out interesting marine life, warn of potential danger, etc. etc. This is far more efficient than banging tanks or rattles, and the air consumed by one short blast (less than one breath) is much less than having to swim after a diver who may unknowingly be wandering away from the group. Also note that instructors/DMs are often called to lead unfamiliar divers with different training/skill/comfort levels so that keeping them in sight at all times is easier said than done. Of course only the instructor and/or the dm should have a horn, and all divers should be aware of this.

This is not throwing a gadget at a skills problem. Let us remember that although we are introduced to needed skills in the classroom or pool, mastery of these skills, for most people, can only be gained by actually diving and diving often. In the process, I would rather that the instructor has all the tools that can help him guide me and increase my safety.

I also wonder how Rev got his image of "a class of DMs all sounding off at once with underwater horns". Here in the Philippines, in almost all agencies that I know, DM training is done as a long term, one-on-one apprenticeship with the instructor, where the candidate is actually made to assist in teaching and leading actual dives, among other requirements, preferably with an underwater horn or other efficient signalling device. I don't believe you can be a DM by being in a class with other candidates who are all very experienced divers.

I agree that an underwater horn may not be of help in the event of a lost diver but it may, at a very cheap price, considerably lessen the chances of the occurence.
:)

[Kev Martin]

Matthew

My image of a class of DMs all sounding off with air horns during a class was meant as a lighthearted touch.

However, since you make the observation that DM training is usually carried out on a one to one basis and normally under an internship I will most happily set you straight on this one.

As an instructor with the Professional Association of Diving Instructors I can run a DM course with a maximum of six students. They will undergo 50 course hours of knowledge modules, waterskills and water stamina modules and four practical application modules. Those four practical open water modules can be carried out with real or simulated students.

Personally, I run all of my DM courses as an internship but the reality is that I cannot afford to run them on a one to one basis.

Dive safely, all.

[erwin]

To Kev Martin

While I agree that the mini-hammerhead is not essential equipment, it is most certainly useful equipment to have especially in training.

To say that it is an equipment solution to a skills problem is not only missing the point entirely, but is the height of arrogance.

Nobody said that you are going to replace good buddy techniques with the mini-hammerhead. The mini-hammerhead is simply used as a tool and as a convenience for the instructor and I do not like being taken to task simply because I choose to use one.

You remind me of my uncle ( who learned to dive in the 60's ) who up to the present refuses to use a BCD when he dives as he says it is for wimps and it is an " equipment solution to a skills problem ". Of course there is a big difference between essential equipment like a BCD and a simple piece of equipment like a mini-hammerhead. The point here is to show that you and my uncle have the same kind of thinking : stubborn, arrogant and intolerant.

[Kev Martin]

Erwin

You yourself admit that the use of an air horn is not an essential piece of equipment. I simply committed my thoughts to print.

Where did I take you to task over your use of the air horn?

I, however, do not appreciate being called stubborn, arrogant and
intolerant. You don't know me as a diver, instructor or person. If you cannot approach these forums with an open mind I would suggest that you view but don't air your views, particularly if you find other points of view not to your taste.

Does your uncle find you as testy as I do?

[Nemo]

I was given a Mini Hammerhead about 10 years ago and it still works just fine! I rarely use it, preferring not to annoy other divers or U/W critters with it's loud blast. However, if for an example, I'm with a photogrpher (other than my buddy) looking for a something unique or rare, I will give a short blast to get that persons attention. Also, I agree with people who say it's a good, loud attention getter above water - have drawn the attention of dive boats a number of times!!

[erwin]

To Kev Martin,

It is you who is actually looking into this issue without an open mind.

Have you ever used one? From the looks of it you haven't and simply dismissing it when it can be very convenient to you is certainly closed minded.

I most certainly do not agree with your arguments and will not change my style of writing simply because you think that your argument is the only valid one.

As to keeping ones opinions to himself. Didn't that type of thinking go the way of totalitarian governments?

[SubMariner]

You are getting a little too personal in this thread.

Please take a step back and cool off a bit.

Just a note from one of your friendly neighbourhood Regulators.

[erwin]

Point well taken and advice heeded.:)