Mandatory Dive Time per Dive ?

[SilverNU]

Is there a minimum Dive Time for a dive to be considered...well... a dive?

20 min?
10 min?

any at all?

[DevonDiver]

In reality, you can log whatever you want... your log book is your record of your experiences in the water.

However, with PADI, to count a dive towards any minimum dive requirement for training courses, a dive is defined as:

"4. For training purposes, an open water dive is a dive during which a student
diver spends the majority of time at a depth of at least 5 metres/15 feet and:
a. breathes at least 1400 litres or 50 cubic feet of compressed gas.
OR
b. remains submerged for at least 20 minutes."

[tstormdiver]

Yes,... the above is true. Why only do those minimums? I personally much prefer quality over quantity. I know of 1 diver, just to get his dive count up, would drop down 15 ft for 20 min., come up for 10 min. & then repeat. Sure,.... he was getting at least 6- 7 dives/ day. But with doing that, he didn't really do anything. Just dropped down did his minimum time & came back up. No training or practice. Pretty useless if you ask me. When I dive, I try to make the most of every dive, whether for fun, practice or training. I will be the first to admit that some of my best & most memorable dives have been in water less than 10 ft deep.

[Straegen]

The PADI one is pretty good. I think an entry/exit dives would be required for me to count a single cylinder as multiple dives.

[DevonDiver]

If you surfaced, then you should be planning any further descents as separate dives in respect of tables/RDP. Likewise, dive computers will log further descents after a pre-set time on the surface.

If the dive was planned or recorded (dive computer) as a separate dive...then it makes sense to log it as such, regardless of entry/exit from water.

[JKPAO]

Dive= Any time you Leave the surface, breathe air or gas under water, and return to the surface!

Now qualifying what is "time"??? ...... some groups will say "it has to be this long" and I recall

somre will require a minimal depth.

See you topside! John

[Guba]

The above definition of a dive is accurate and reasonable and should be acceptable for logging dives. The practice of "plunging" just to raise one's dive count is ridiculous, at best.

That said, I fall back on a mantra we've heard many times here on the boards..."It's YOUR log book. Record anything you want. It's primary function is to become a resource to help you learn and plan dives better in the future, not impress someone with your vast store of experiences. As for WHAT to log, that's up to you. For example, one of my logs is a "dive" on which I never got more than three feet under the surface, and the whole episode was over in less than ten minutes. "Not a REAL dive," cry the scuba police? Trust me, I learned more in that short time than in 100 other "normal" dives, and it had life-changing implications for me. The idea that I should not log it or count it as a "dive", to me, is ludicrous. Our logs are records of our diving experiences and they should serve as reminders of what we should do (or not do) as we plan our next dives. My best advice is to downplay hard-and-fast "rules" concerning what makes a dive and simply log what feels comfortable for you.l

[natew]

I think the PADI rules are a good start but I also think that there should be an allowance for logging anything significant that happens regardless of dive length or any other factors. For instance if a dive is called five minutes into it because or an equipment failure or some other potentially hazardous condition because that shows more than any other dive that you stayed within your limits, within your training, and responded appropriately and is probably the best practice of your dive training you could get.

[NWGratefulDiver]

Yes,... the above is true. Why only do those minimums? I personally much prefer quality over quantity. I know of 1 diver, just to get his dive count up, would drop down 15 ft for 20 min., come up for 10 min. & then repeat. Sure,.... he was getting at least 6- 7 dives/ day. But with doing that, he didn't really do anything. Just dropped down did his minimum time & came back up. No training or practice. Pretty useless if you ask me. When I dive, I try to make the most of every dive, whether for fun, practice or training. I will be the first to admit that some of my best & most memorable dives have been in water less than 10 ft deep.

I've seen that a couple times. As for why ... these are people who are in a hurry to go from just-certified to DM or Instructor, and need to "get their numbers up".

They've kinda missed the whole point of why those numbers exist in the first place ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[NWGratefulDiver]

I think the PADI rules are a good start but I also think that there should be an allowance for logging anything significant that happens regardless of dive length or any other factors. For instance if a dive is called five minutes into it because or an equipment failure or some other potentially hazardous condition because that shows more than any other dive that you stayed within your limits, within your training, and responded appropriately and is probably the best practice of your dive training you could get.
This is a good point.

Let's keep things in perspective ... the PADI rules define a dive for training purposes. What a diver does outside of the class is really up to the diver. The agency only defines the dive limits in order to give the instructor some guidelines within which to conduct a class.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[sunfishh]

I use the 20 20 rule. If I "dive" atleast a max depth of 20 feet for 20 minutes than its an official dive. Of course you can use any standard you would like in your logbook.

[on_two_wheels]

I personally have logged only one dive of less than twenty minutes. It was cut short due to an emergency, that being why I logged it. Otherwise, I don't think I'd log a dive that short.

For example: During a shore dive, you and your buddy descend and swim to a known point of interest. At that first stop (let's say a swim thru) you can't find your buddy. You surface after one minute and both meet up on the surface. Since the depth was only 18 fsw and bottom time getting there was only 12 min, you both descend and finish the dive. The first 12 min wasn't a complete dive worth logging in my opinion UNLESS you log the whole thing as one dive. Just how I'd do it...not necessarily right or wrong. I might note the separation in comments, though.

[PatW]

Well, you can log anything you want.

Now I have never had a situation where I had a dive so short as to make me wonder about "logging it" as a dive. So I have never had that question. Most of my dives are boat dives with diving operators and they are 50 minute or 60 minute dives.

But there is a bit of a warning. Divers often consider the number of dives as a measure of experience. So I would not go out and do something to artificially inflate my numbers like doing 2 dives on a single fill.

But using dives as a measure of experience is not really that good either. A measure of experience is the conditions you have done your diving in.

[Peter Guy]

I have one logged dive that was 1 1/2 minutes and another that was 3 minutes but that is because I learned something on both of them. (How many ways can you spell C.F.!!!) Generally I use a 20 minute limit -- however no depth limit because some of the best dives are in very shallow water that we normally swim over.

[sabbath999]

The PADI one is pretty good. I think an entry/exit dives would be required for me to count a single cylinder as multiple dives.

I can see that, but since I often dive a steel 120LP which the shop fills to 3000psi, and many of my dive sites are 25-30 feet, one tank can last... ummm... hours.

That's why I don't go for the "one tank means one dive" thing... I can dive all day on one tank.

[Straegen]

If you surfaced, then you should be planning any further descents as separate dives in respect of tables/RDP. Likewise, dive computers will log further descents after a pre-set time on the surface.

If the dive was planned or recorded (dive computer) as a separate dive...then it makes sense to log it as such, regardless of entry/exit from water.

I wouldn't do it in most cases. I have on a few occasions gotten down to 30' or so with a buddy, surfaced due to some equipment malfunction swam to the boat picked something up and went back down (happened with a mask strap on my last dive trip about 1/4 through the dive). I have also been on a few dives where people have gotten separated from the group, surfaced, located the flag and went back down. All of these would be logged in my log book as single dives. Others can do what they want in their book, but I am not logging something separately unless it is a planned event such as a training session with multiple stages or I exit the water.

[Thalassamania]

Most agencies have a rule similar to PADI's to prevent "tea bagging" to fulfill course requirements.

[JoeSpirit]

I can't imagine bouncing from and to the surface just to increase my dive numbers. Since my reason for diving is underwater exploration, and admiration, I'd never find pleasure in that type of activity.

I do agree that every in-water experience offers new knowledge, and no matter how long, or deep, a submersion is having a record in your log is a valuable reference.

[SilverNU]

thanks for the replies..

Don't get me wrong though.. I was not asking so I could start logging short dives just to get me count up. I'm fairly new, just got my AOW, and wasn't not sure of the rules.. if any at all.

The real reason asked is.. I recently had a dive time of slightly less than 20 mins. The dive wasn't planned this way.. we decided to cut the dive short due to viability conditions that we were not totally aware of. We knew viz was bad.. but 1-3 ft is terrible. So.. we surfaced..planned accordingly..then went back in.

Our next class will be Rescue Diver.. and the lake where we live will usually have bad viz. So.. gotta get used to it sometime.

I just didn't want to log anything that wasn't legit.

[DevonDiver]

Most agencies have a rule similar to PADI's to prevent "tea bagging" to fulfill course requirements.

Thal.... I can assure you most strongly that THIS here PADI Instructor would NEVER allow "tea bagging" on his courses!!!!



Teabagging
`Teabagging` is a slang term for the act of a man placing his testicles, specifically the scrotum, in the mouth The practice vaguely resembles dipping a tea bag into a cup of tea
Found on Tea bag (sexual act) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teabagging)

[Thalassamania]

That's the Republican definition of tea bagging.

In diving it is repeated short dives, often without even changing tanks, conducted for the purpose of raising one's dive count.

[fnfalman]

Training dives have certain amounts of times & depths to adhere to. Personal, fun dives are up to the divers. The only "mandatory" time is when a diver goes into decompression, then you must have your deco time. Even then it's not "mandatory". If you have a hyperbaric chamber nearby, just pop up and make the run for the chamber.

[NWGratefulDiver]

So what would you call a dive that was less than 20 feet in depth ... "power snorkeling"?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Seaduced]

So what would you call a dive that was less than 20 feet in depth ... "power snorkeling"?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

The term I use is, "Glorified Snorkeling!"

My 5th dive was to 11 fsw, and it only reached that depth because I stuck my wrist/computer into a depression in the sand. But, I learned a lot about my gear on that dive and you bet I logged it. SAC rate was pretty good, too! ;)

Darell

[Thorndowyn]

Yes,... the above is true. Why only do those minimums? I personally much prefer quality over quantity. I know of 1 diver, just to get his dive count up, would drop down 15 ft for 20 min., come up for 10 min. & then repeat. Sure,.... he was getting at least 6- 7 dives/ day. But with doing that, he didn't really do anything. Just dropped down did his minimum time & came back up. No training or practice. Pretty useless if you ask me. When I dive, I try to make the most of every dive, whether for fun, practice or training. I will be the first to admit that some of my best & most memorable dives have been in water less than 10 ft deep.

Well, doing this gives you as much experience as just faking those dives in your log...

Regarding the 10 ft. dives: I prefer to do those without equipment, just with snorkel, mask and fins.

Basically, if it is a nice dive you want to remember, log it honestly.
I know some people who even log their training pool dives.

My log is for me, to remember the dives, interesting things, experiences, stuff seen, etc.
So, your log, your rules. But be honest if asked about your experience.

[koozemani]

As a new diver, I log my pool sessions and mark them as such. Listing whatever skills were practiced, etc...

When an dive operator asks to check your log, it should be clear to them what dives were merely training or legitimate. If someone wants to teabag or falsify their log then it's on the diver when something goes wrong and they don't have the proper skill set to handle it. As mentioned in this and several other threads, the diver should be responsable for his own dive. Falsly logging dives doesn't hurt anyone but themselves.

[NWGratefulDiver]

Regarding the 10 ft. dives: I prefer to do those without equipment, just with snorkel, mask and fins.


Last December I discovered a patch of eel grass in the shallows of one of my local sites that was harboring a local treasure ... pacific spiny lumpsuckers. My avatar is one of them. Over the course of the next month or so I did over 20 dives in that eel grass bed. The dives never went deeper than 20 feet, and often never even came close to that depth. Much of my time would be in less than 10 feet of water. My average dive time was between 60 and 70 minutes. Since my subjects were rather small and difficult to see, snorkeling wasn't a real practical approach ... particularly for photography.

I guess the point is that the depth of your dive is determined by where the stuff is that you want to see ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[sabbath999]

I often dive in the extreme shallows... 3-5 feet of water... when I am taking pictures.

Here are some shots that were all taken in 6 feet of water or less.

http://zoopictures.zenfolio.com/img/s2/v1/p594057984-2.jpg
4 feet down

http://zoopictures.zenfolio.com/img/s6/v5/p602603334-2.jpg
3 feet down

http://zoopictures.zenfolio.com/img/s2/v1/p923504004-2.jpg
4 feet down

http://zoopictures.zenfolio.com/img/s6/v5/p341569122-2.jpg
5 feet down, night

If I spend an hour in the top 10 feet of the water taking pictures, should I not log it?

I do log it. Generally, I don't stay the whole time at that depth, I usually drop down the wall if I am shooting in this particular spot, it's about 30 at the bottom... but I would feel no qualms about logging a dive I only went down 5-10 feet for if it were of a decent length.

I love diving shallow to take pictures.

[blue-tonic]

I log every dive I do regardless of depth or time. I feel that with every dive it is a learning experience. I don't do dives just for the sake of doing dives and upping my number but do it for the adventure and love of diving. My shortest dive was at 3 mins as it was my first time doing a search and recovery and lucked out that I came right down on the item. Finding it in the first minute, I then spent 2 trying to clean as much silt off of it as possible. My depth was 37' but even at 3 mins, it was still something new so I logged it.

[CamG]

Greetings SilverNu I roll with the 20/20 rule for normal diving conditions.
I agree with Bob (Grateful Diver) and Peter Guy I have logged some shorter dives that were emergency situations and or incidents that I would want to remember the details of.
For shallow dives under 20' if they are over 20 min. they get logged as well.
As others have mentioned I have had some very extraordinary shallow dives pertaining to aquatic life.
I also enjoy admiring the different types of plants and what lives in them.
Here in IN one of the most memorable dives was on Lake James when the water levels were so high they shut the lake off to boaters. Only paddle / sail were allowed.
This is one the the busiest lakes in our area which with dive flag in our hands we went for it. It was unbelievable!
The weed beds were full of many fish species and the beds them selves resembled huge dread locks. If I were not in IN I could have been at a reef somewhere with 30 ft vis!

Some of those dives never broke 20' but were way longer than 20 min. and I logged them for sure!
It is up to you what you enter into your log book just do not get ruffled if an instructor will not allow a certain dive to count toward a cert.
It is not a big deal I welcome anyone to look over my log book and say what they want. It is mine and if they do it different that is great! That is why we are stronger as a team!

CamG Keep diving....Keep training....Keep learning!