Need help with Harness on BP

[wader]

I recently purchased a DSS BP/W for my wife. Neither of us have any experience with setting them up. The BP is small as she is 5'0" tall, about 120 lbs. (don't tell her I said that:no:) with a DD cup and broad shoulders. We first tried the traditional Hog harness but with her, ummmm, broad shoulders, she felt uncomfortable. So I purchased the Dive rite dlx harness that has rings about a 1/3 down and a chest strap to help secure, her, ummm, broad shoulders.

I am having a very difficult time fitting either harness. Can I please get some guidance and what is considered a good fit? I hear that BP/W is the most comfortable, but so far we do not see it, but I am admitting to user error. Part of the trouble is that I am trying to adjust the harness to what I think she likes, if that makes sense.

So to summarize, how tight is is tight enough to be secure, yet loose enough to be comfortable?:dontknow: I appreciate any knowledge that SB wishes to bestow upon my humble self.:dork:

P.S. I do not have easy access to try it in the water, then make adjustments, and continue that process. Once we are fairly close we will go to a pool and make final adjustments.

[gsk3]

The shoulder straps can be pretty loose as long as the crotch strap is reasonably adjusted. Might help.

I know plenty of "broad shouldered" women who find BP/Ws very comfortable, so it can be done.

Are you sure you have it rigged properly? Have you tried this site:
DIR-diver.com - Adjust the backplate (http://www.dir-diver.com/en/equipment/backplate_adjustment.html)

[wader]

Thanks, that was helpful. I did the weaving properly. I think I have things too tight. I will try to loosen them up. I was hoping for some indication of what is loose enough but tight enough. Like when trying on shoes, the whole thumbnail from the end of your toe.
The whole reason we went the BP route was for flexibility and being able to adjust to her body, vs. a BCD that is less adjustable.

[vinegarbiscuit]

I generally find that I can fit two fingers under the shoulder straps of my harness. I tighten the waistband as I would a pair of well-fitting but comfortable blue jeans. As the above poster said, getting the the crotch strap adjusted properly is key. Too loose, and your wife's harness will ride up under her armpits. Too tight, and she'll feel like she's got a permanent wedgie, if you know what I mean.

IIRC, the webbing on my harness was rather stiff when we first put it together, but it 'relaxed' after a few dives. That - together with the inevitable post-dive tweaks as I recognized what needed to be looser/tighter or what hardware like D-rings needed to be repositioned - made the first month of diving with a harness rather annoying. It seemed that something always needed to be slightly adjusted in some way. Now, of course, it's perfect and I haven't touched it for a couple of years. I'm sure that's where your wife will be soon, too.

[gsk3]

It's hard to say without being there, but you shouldn't have to struggle to get your arms through both straps, and when I've got mine on with my exposure suit I can get a thumb under each strap pretty easily--and that's with the crotch strap tightened down (one of the tricks of being able to get your head back fully is loosening the shoulder straps and tightening down the crotch strap, so it's pretty common to have the shoulder straps reasonably loose). Maybe try starting with it very loose but comfortable, go dive it, and see if it needs tightening any, rather than starting with it tight and loosening incrementally?

Edit re: vinegarbiscuit...
Not sure what webbing your generic harness is using, but the DR deluxe harness is quite soft. Of course, it also has those integrated rings where the chest strap goes which dug into my shoulders to the point that I got rid of the harness. But it's a good point that you might consider some softer webbing as well...it ranges from extremely stiff to extremely soft. The stiff stuff is a little easier to put on since it doesn't flop (when you're putting the buckle through or trying to get your arms through the shoulder straps), but the soft stuff is soft like a Downy commercial.

[TSandM]

I have no idea how to adjust the Dive Rite harness. But I'm 5'4", 120, and DD, and I love my simple harness. If you adjust the shoulder straps so that the top of the backplate is just below the second big bump at the base of the neck (T1 spinous process), and then adjust the crotch strap so that it takes the slack out of the harness when everything is hooked up, it should be very comfortable.

I don't know how broad your wife's actual shoulders are, but I'm narrow across them, and when I first used a standard harness, it dug into my upper arms. I found that crossing the straps (so the strap from the top left slot goes to the bottom right slot) kept the straps in the soft hollow over my collarbone, and I didn't always feel as though one of the straps was going to fall off.

Good luck with this, and if you want to take some pictures and e-mail them to me at lynne@tsandm.com, please feel free.

[fisheater]

I used this website to set up my DSS BP/W.

BAUE How To Size a Backplate (http://www.baue.org/faq/backplate_sizing_inline_images.php)

[wader]

Thanks for the input. Here is what I am working with. She feels pretty strongly about having the chest strap.

84914


On a side note, I bought a crotch strap for myself, the Dive Rite one. It is so stiff it feels like a 2x4 shoved up my :mooner:

Any ideas to make it softer? Not sure how long my baby soft butt will last...:rofl3:

[TSandM]

If she feels strongly about the chest strap, I'll bet you she'll be perfectly happy with the crossed straps. They accomplish the same thing.

Crotch straps are better if they are not made of 2" nylon webbing. If they are, I think you can boil the webbing to remove some of the resin reinforcement (I seem to remember reading that somewhere). But a better choice is softer webbing. You can buy polypropylene webbing cheaply, and it takes about ten minutes with a standard home sewing machine to put a crotch strap together.

[cmburch]

http://www.diverite.com/tv/gear-configuration/67

The chest strap places the shoulder straps in a position that is most comfortable for hiking.

The D-rings that the chest strap is attached to may be raised or lowered for the best fit. It takes a few tries to get it right. Also the 1" chest strap may be lengthened if need be.

I use a 2" DR crotch strap. Mine came with soft sleeve that goes over webbing. Softer tubular webbing may be obtained from Dive Gear Express or REI. Sewing machine not necessary. Can use two to four DR nonserrated belt slides. Fold webbing back through belt slide to make a loop on ends. Add bent or normal D-rings with serrated DR belt slides as needed. Melt cut ends.

I use an exposure suit. The belt slides may cause irritation then a sewing machine is necessary.

Search the videos on the TransPac adjustment or TransPlate for ideas on how a harness should fit a woman.

[Crush]

Thanks for the input. Here is what I am working with. She feels pretty strongly about having the chest strap.

84914


On a side note, I bought a crotch strap for myself, the Dive Rite one. It is so stiff it feels like a 2x4 shoved up my :mooner:

Any ideas to make it softer? Not sure how long my baby soft butt will last...:rofl3:

I am very new to BP/w. I have a build such that my backpacks tend to slide off my shoulders if I don't have a sternum strap. The same is true of my BP/w if I am hiking it a distance overland. My BP/w does not have a sternum strap and, as it happens, I don't need one since once I am horizontal in the water the weight is transferred off my shoulders and onto my back. Also, if I keep my hands out in front of me when diving the BP can't slide off, plus the change in position tightens up the rig a bit.

Sternum strap for hiking your BP to a dive site - possibly necessary or desirable.

Sternum strap for diving your BP - not necessary.

[LauraJ]

try a couple double enders from your chest d-rings ;)


I am very new to BP/w. I have a build such that my backpacks tend to slide off my shoulders if I don't have a sternum strap. The same is true of my BP/w if I am hiking it a distance overland. My BP/w does not have a sternum strap and, as it happens, I don't need one since once I am horizontal in the water the weight is transferred off my shoulders and onto my back. Also, if I keep my hands out in front of me when diving the BP can't slide off, plus the change in position tightens up the rig a bit.

Sternum strap for hiking your BP to a dive site - possibly necessary or desirable.

Sternum strap for diving your BP - not necessary.

[wader]

I will try the boiling water on the crotch strap first since that is the cheapest way.

While I agree about the chest strap, it is not me you need to convince...

Another question: She has requested a quick release buckle for her waist strap. I said I would check into it. Her previous BC had one and she liked it. Is there any for-seeable reason not to use one; and second, where can I find a 2" buckle??

[cool_hardware52]

I will try the boiling water on the crotch strap first

Don't try this while wearing it.;)

Alternatively you can "breakin" stiff webbing by running it through the washer a few times.

Tobin

[wader]

Don't try this while wearing it.;)

Alternatively you can "breakin" stiff webbing by running it through the washer a few times.

Tobin

Oh good idea. You can roast chestnuts, but boiling doesn't sound all that fun. I should probably not be wearing it while washing either...:shocked2:

[Crush]

Another question: She has requested a quick release buckle for her waist strap. I said I would check into it. Her previous BC had one and she liked it. Is there any for-seeable reason not to use one; and second, where can I find a 2" buckle??

I may not understand what you wrote. There seem to be two types of "buckles" out there - the buckle system (which looks like a lever which pinches down on the belt) and the clip system (which looks like an arrowhead that clips into a matching receptacle). All weight belts that I have ever seen use the buckle system. All BC waist bands that I have seen use the clip system. Both are quick release. Personally I much prefer the buckle - my buddy can grab the loose end of my belt, tug, and the belt falls off. With a clip system my buddy has to locate the clip and pinch both squeeze points to get the system to release.

[wader]

I may not understand what you wrote. There seem to be two types of "buckles" out there - the buckle system (which looks like a lever which pinches down on the belt) and the clip system (which looks like an arrowhead that clips into a matching receptacle). All weight belts that I have ever seen use the buckle system. All BC waist bands that I have seen use the clip system. Both are quick release. Personally I much prefer the buckle - my buddy can grab the loose end of my belt, tug, and the belt falls off. With a clip system my buddy has to locate the clip and pinch both squeeze points to get the system to release.

I guess I wasn't very clear. She wants a clip type system. I understand that the clip is easier for another diver to use, but if it is on her waist strap, how often would another diver (preferably me:D) be undoing her waist strap? Are there situations where this is a factor? I am not trying to be a jerk, I just can't think of any other than a need to take her entire rig off. We are recreational divers. She would NEVER be found in a wreck or cave or anywhere she can't go straight up to the surface.

I cannot remember ever seeing a 2" clip buckle for a waist strap except on BCs or seeing just the buckle for sale. I figure there must be a reason...:dontknow:

[cmburch]

The harness should have come with a 2" SS DR QR buckle. This is your best choice. It can be painted with exterior acrylic paints available from Walmart/craft store any design desired. Any on-line retailer has 2" SS QR buckles. A buddy would just pull on the webbing to release if need be. Also they last forever. Buff with emory cloth to dull buckle before painting. Heat set paint in oven.

If you mean a 2" Delrin buckle those can be obtained from REI or an outfitter store. These are not desirable because not as sturdy, more problems with sand, and harder to release especially with gloves. Google delrin buckle. It has the same style as the chest strap buckle. Backpacks may have this style of buckle. Light weight.
http://www.omsdive.com/hardware.html

[gsk3]

These are not desirable because not as sturdy, more problems with sand, and harder to release.

...and not as adjustable. I find, particularly with a thick wetsuit, that giving it a good cinch once I hit the water helps a lot. Adjusting length on the fly for different exposure suits, etc. would be pretty hard with a clip, and tightening it down just a wee bit more once you hit the water is also essentially impossible.

[gsk3]

Another thought: to a certain extent, comfort on land is not the point. You're going to be hopping into the water with it soon after. I know your situation makes diving with it difficult before it's adjusted, but maybe there's a pool or something nearby? Ideally with someone who's BP/W experienced in swim trunks? :-)

I'd give the traditional configuration a try before you start mucking about with quick-releases and so forth too much. I jumped right into the bells-and-whistles harness, and it turns out all those old grumpy folks were right...the single piece of webbing, properly adjusted, works really well. Give it a chance if you can manage it.

Best,
Ari

[Crush]

I guess I wasn't very clear. She wants a clip type system. I understand that the clip is easier for another diver to use, but if it is on her waist strap, how often would another diver (preferably me:D) be undoing her waist strap?

A SS QR buckle is far easier to release than a Delrin buckle.

gsk3 is right - based on my personal experience, a SS QR buckle is far easier to adjust underwater and on land than a Delrin buckle, especially with gloves on.

[wader]

If she feels strongly about the chest strap, I'll bet you she'll be perfectly happy with the crossed straps. They accomplish the same thing.

Crotch straps are better if they are not made of 2" nylon webbing. If they are, I think you can boil the webbing to remove some of the resin reinforcement (I seem to remember reading that somewhere). But a better choice is softer webbing. You can buy polypropylene webbing cheaply, and it takes about ten minutes with a standard home sewing machine to put a crotch strap together.

Any suggestions on where to buy polypropylene webbing?

Because of a short torso, the Dive Rite harness and the chest strap ride to high for her comfort.
So we tried the crossing straps in the back. It was very useful for the feeling on her shoulders, but the straps dug into the front part of her armpits. So plan C I guess. I get a length of polypropylene (soft stuff) and do a cross in the back.

[cool_hardware52]

Any suggestions on where to buy polypropylene webbing?

You don't need polypro, there are nylon weaves that are softer.

We use a softer non reinforced nylon webbing for crotch straps.

Tobin

[wader]

You don't need polypro, there are nylon weaves that are softer.

We use a softer non reinforced nylon webbing for crotch straps.

Tobin

The crotch strap my wife has is DSS. It is very soft. Much better than my 2x4.

Does DSS sell the soft nylon weaves?

[Crush]

Does DSS sell the soft nylon weaves?

Does DSS sell nylon weave in colours other than black? :) Patterns?

[wader]

If she feels strongly about the chest strap, I'll bet you she'll be perfectly happy with the crossed straps. They accomplish the same thing.

Crotch straps are better if they are not made of 2" nylon webbing. If they are, I think you can boil the webbing to remove some of the resin reinforcement (I seem to remember reading that somewhere). But a better choice is softer webbing. You can buy polypropylene webbing cheaply, and it takes about ten minutes with a standard home sewing machine to put a crotch strap together.

I boiled the strap for about an hour. No noticeable improvement:depressed:

Any suggestions where to buy some inexpensive poly webbing for a crotch strap and possibly a harness??

[cmburch]

http://www.diverite.com/tv/gear-configuration/67

The chest strap places the shoulder straps in a position that is most comfortable for hiking.

The D-rings that the chest strap is attached to may be raised or lowered for the best fit. It takes a few tries to get it right. Also the 1" chest strap may be lengthened if need be.

I use a 2" DR crotch strap. Mine came with soft sleeve that goes over webbing. Softer tubular webbing may be obtained from Dive Gear Express or REI.Sewing machine not necessary. Can use two to four DR nonserrated belt slides. Fold webbing back through belt slide to make a loop on ends. Add bent or normal D-rings with serrated DR belt slides as needed. Melt cut ends.

I use an exposure suit. The belt slides may cause irritation then a sewing machine is necessary.

Search the videos on the TransPac adjustment or TransPlate for ideas on how a harness should fit a woman.

Maybe look at fit adjusting video for women.

[TSandM]

I have not bought from them, but THESE (http://www.strapworks.com/) folks get recommended frequently when people ask where to order various kinds of webbing.

[Mr Carcharodon]

I boiled the strap for about an hour. No noticeable improvement:depressed:

Any suggestions where to buy some inexpensive poly webbing for a crotch strap and possibly a harness??

Try Deep Sea Supply: https://deepseasupply.com/index.php?product=15

Their crotch straps come pre-sewn with a D-ring.

And they have harnesses too: https://deepseasupply.com/index.php?product=12

[wader]

I ordered some polypropylene webbing from Strapworks, thanks to everyone's favorite medical personnel. At only $.22 a foot, its worth a try. Lots of colors to choose from, wife was pleased at that. Should be here in a few days, will update after it arrives.:handball:

[ShakaZulu]

Route it below the DD's for extra lift...:)

[mahjong]

Thanks for the input. Here is what I am working with. She feels pretty strongly about having the chest strap.

84914


On a side note, I bought a crotch strap for myself, the Dive Rite one. It is so stiff it feels like a 2x4 shoved up my :mooner:

Any ideas to make it softer? Not sure how long my baby soft butt will last...:rofl3:

Once you get things adjusted comfortably, you likely won't even need the crotch strap. I dive my BP/wing without a crotch strap (and without a chest strap) and the rig doesn't ride up on me at all--and I use (Halcyon) weight pockets, so when I'm upside down there is more weight that could cause the rig to ride up (but it doesn't). If the crotch strap is taking tension at all when you're underwater (tipping head forward; floating on the surface), then your rig is probably not well adjusted.

In general, the shoulder straps can be on the loose side (they come to bear most on lateral tank/plate stability), but you'll likely want to buckle the waist strap good and tight. If my rig is yanking down on my shoulders while standing up (on land), then my waist strap is too loose. Standing, the weight of the rig should be on your hips and not on your shoulders. Everything will feel better in the water. And you will get used to working your arms and shoulders in a way where you can create tension on the shoulder straps when you need to, for example if you start doing some twisting and turning underwater, and this will provide the lateral tank/plate stability. For example, if I'm going to twist, I might cross my arms and bring my shoulders forward a bit, and this creates tension on the shoulder straps (that's otherwise not there) and locks down the tank/plate on my back. And then when you're just cruising horizontally, you can relax your arms and shoulders and take the tension off the shoulder straps.

[wader]

The straps came, but the drama continues. I ordered the lightweight straps thinking only of the strength of the straps. They came as ordered, but the lightweight straps are to thin to hold the belt slides; they just move around with little pressure.

So, back to strap works and an order placed for heavy weight straps. The first straps with postage was under $10, so not a huge loss, just frustrating as hell....

[wader]

Well the hwt straps came and guess what? They are not that much more heavy and the belt slides still slides, even those with teeth. I think I am going to try another vendor, Scuba Toys has been good to me so I will try there first. Strap works has good service and they never claimed their product would work for this application. I would have never thought something so simple would take so much time and hassle... I guess that is what marriage is all about, eh :marriage:

[TSandM]

I don't know what type of webbing you ordered, but triglides WILL slide on anything but the resin-reinforced nylon stuff.