shark and other fish feeding

[novicediver]

This may very well be a dead horse, but I am too old, lazy, and tired to do a search, and maybe someone else wants to talk about it too. Have any of you participated in shark feeding dives? If so what was the experience like? I love sharks and when I start diving again, hope to see more of them in a natural setting. I am just curious why we as humans have these kinds of expeditions though. Do we go on nature hikes and feed the bears? Is there a difference? Some of these trips take place under the auspice of education, but aren't there better ways to educate without exploitation and creating unnatural circumstances? Now I am not trying to start any kind of flame war, and I'm not criticizing anyone's diving preferences, I am just curious.

PS - save the popcorn or dead horse smilies, I am only looking for a fresh discussion not an argument

[tstormdiver]

I have been on several shark feeding dives (usually live aboards). The first time was cool. I was a brand new diver had never been around or seen sharks, but have always been fascinated by them. After the first time, the rest of the feedings I have been on, I really could have cared less if it was done, but understand for those other new divers who want to see the experience. I much more prefer to see the sharks anymore, doing their natural behaviors. Are the feedings a good thing? I don't know... I see both sides. 1- it conditions the sharks to being fed by humans, reducing their natural fear of humans. 2- the sharks are not doing their natural thing. On the other side, I can see where it may be a bit of an educational thing for some divers who might not get any other chance to see sharks while diving. While yes, some of their behavior is not natural, some of it is, also. If anything, I look at it as a necessary evil (for lack of a better term), kind of like zoological parks & such.

[novicediver]

Fair enough, I am becoming less a fan of zoos, aquariums such as SeaWorld, and the like as I get older. The animals look too bored, and in the wild will roam hundreds of miles in a day. I am neither a fanatic nor idealist, but things like that seem way too contrived.

[DandyDon]

I took a baggie of dry cat food on a dive once years ago to try attract reef fishes. The triggers and cudas chased everything else away. One cuda followed me back to the boat. Never again.

[drrich2]

I am just curious why we as humans have these kinds of expeditions though. Do we go on nature hikes and feed the bears? Is there a difference? Some of these trips take place under the auspice of education, but aren't there better ways to educate without exploitation and creating unnatural circumstances?

We do it because people want to see sharks.

Some people feed bears. Conventional wisdom views feeding bears as more likely to precipitate situations resulting in dead bears &/or dead people. Saw an old 'Faces of Death' video where a guy was dropping food to a grizzly outside his RV, got out to film it, & it turned & killed him. There's hot theoretical debate on whether shark feeding makes potential maneaters more likely to kill us, but there's not as much theoretical agreement on that as there is on bears. Yet, anyway. Time may tell. So yeah, there's a difference.

Auspice of education? It amazes me how our culture is oddly ashamed of hedonistic recreational sight-seeing of animals. If you want to learn about sharks, save time & money...stay home & use Google or order some books off Amazon. Yes, you might make some personally fulfilling observation staring at reef sharks in the Bahamas (not that there's a lack of videos to watch at home), but I don't think that's the primary motivation. People want to see sharks for the fun of it.

Exploitation? Now there's a word that gets used to death in our culture. The sharks don't seem to mind it! To some extent, most any transaction can be seen as exploitation. My employer exploits my dependency on a paycheck to get me to come to work. This issue is whether the shark population is suffering undue harm as a result.

We precipitate unnatural circumstances when we strap on scuba gear & dive. Considering the human impact on shark populations, fish populations & the ocean, I'd say 'unnatural circumstances' are pretty much a given, anyway.

Many people would probably prefer to observe sharks ambling along 'naturally,' but we're told many sharks are afraid of divers & avoid us like the plague. So a lot of folks paying thousands apiece for exotic tropical vacations may not (in some locations probably will not) see sharks at all (much less in decent numbers & close & long enough for a good look at) without the feeding dives. I'm up to around 83 dives or so, the large majority in Bonaire with a few elsewhere in the Caribbean, and I haven't seen a shark yet.

I haven't yet had the chance to participate in a shark feeding dive. I probably would, though. As long as it didn't involve something akin to chumming for great whites near populated beaches or something along those lines. With that in mind, I do think the practice bears guarded, cautious monitoring.

Richard.

[TMHeimer]

You're ALL crazy. Why???? Seeing a shark sucks.

[Damselfish]

I haven't heard enough evidence against shark feeds that I'm violently against them, but I'd say there's much more chance of downside than upside. I'm certainly not fond of the idea and have no interest in participating.

It's really not necessary to do a shark feed to see sharks. If you dive a decent amount, particularly in the right locations (generally not Bonaire), you'll get to see them - especially if you make a point of scanning the blue periodically. I couldn't remotely guess at how many I've seen and I've never even chosen a destination with that in mind. Some places it's a few lucky ones and some places they're just known to be around more.

[Mike Boswell]

We see lots of sharks during normal dives and they are beautiful, graceful animals. Typically, on tropical reefs we see smaller sharks like white tips, grey reef, nurse, etc. and we often see soupfin sharks here in San Diego.

I've also been on two shark feeding dives in Fiji, and on those, the sharks were surrounded by thousands of fish of all sizes in a mad feeding frenzy. On those dives we saw larger species like bull and tiger sharks. It is a spectacle, and you do see the larger sharks, but it isn't a natural setting and not something I would do again.

[DandyDon]

I haven't heard enough evidence against shark feeds that I'm violently against them, but I'd say there's much more chance of downside than upside. I'm certainly not fond of the idea and have no interest in participating.
What about when the local sharks learn to follow boats in hopes of handouts, then are caught by local fishermen?

Or how about when divers are killed in chummed dives?

[knowone]

:dontknow:Rarely see big ones of the sharp tooth variety naturally, but they still seem 16 times bigger even the small supposed harmlessish ones.
Used to go privately with a couple of blokes to a couple of spots frequented by the sharp tooth variety and did our darnedest to avoid feeding them. Haven't been for ten years and it would still get the sphincter going. Will go again but theres no rush.

People and sharks is only good without the people. There are already hordes enough in cars and shops without taking them with you elsewhere.

If you look past the boredom of animals in zoo's you would see psychological impairment and borderline psychopathy.


People well do you give them what they want or make something and suggest they need it.:dontknow:


Yes I do.

[ZenDiver.3D]

First, I absolutely love sharks. I love the adrenaline rush I feel when I find one. For me, it is the search and surprise that makes it a great experience. Just to step into their world and watch them going about their business. That is great. I don't get the same thrill when they are manipulated or baited in.

I would rather drop down over the deck of a wreck, and discover the nurse sharks snoozing. I love hanging out at a deco stop and looking over and seeing a tiger shark glide by. I really dig seeing a shadow pass overhead, looking up, and realizing that the giant shadow is not a boat, but a whale shark. That's good diving.

[BDSC]

I've been on two different shark feeding dives and enjoyed both. I don't have a real problem with these types of dives. I have read where some folks feel it alters the sharks natural behaviors and they become dependant on that food. On the two dives I did there were probably 20 sharks and I'm pretty certain the amount of fish in that tube wouldn't sustain 20 sharks even doing that dive twice a day. I have to believe they still hunt for a large part of their food.

We had a group go down to the Georgia Aquarium a few weeks back and we got a "behind the scene" tour of the place. I noticed that there were no spotted eagle rays in the large tank so I asked one of the workers why not. He explained to me that they tried to introduce a few over the years as well as one other type of ray (that I don't remember) but they usually have to be brought in at a young age. Each time they have tried to introduce them, the hammerheads will eat them. He said they only lasted in the tank a few days. Now I would have though that since they are all fed on a schedule and don't have to kill for their food they would have left the young rays alone. But not so says the staff member. Even though those sharks have been in the tank for several years and being fed easy to get meals, they will still kill when presented the opportunity.

[ajduplessis]

No wild animal should be fed by humans. My 2cents

[fjr_wertheimber]

One thing I will say for shark feeds, the one that I went to got my fiancee over her fear of sharks... Prior to that, if we saw a shark (no matter how small, no matter how far away) you could see her tense up, her eyes would get really wide, and you could see her bubble rate shoot through the roof... On one of our dives we did a shark feed at Osprey Reef in Australia and there were at least 30-40 sharks... I could see her getting tensed up at first, yet oddly enough, as the shark feed started I could feel her relaxing next to me, and by the time it was all done she was old hat with being around sharks. After that shark feed, instead of freaking out when she saw a shark, you could see her get excited and happy to see one, and she'd happily flash the sign for shark to me and point it out. Made her sooooo much more comfortable around sharks and with being underwater in general. Worth every penny and every minute, at least for us. YMMV.

[Crowley]

I think any wild animal is best observed whilst displaying its natural behaviour in its natural environment.

BUT - I think there is some value in shark feed dives, when conducted appropriately. There is some exploitation, for sure, but responsible operators do it with a great deal of respect for the environment and the sharks that they are "feeding"

I observed one such experience in the North East of the Great Barrier Reef - and it was an awesome experience. Things I feel I should point out about the dive:

The sharks were in the water before we were. They for sure knew that something was coming, but sharks also congregate at particular times in particular areas when other food sources - such as lots of seals, turtles, whatever - are available. Their behaviour has therefore been modified.

There were 60 sharks in the water (at least) and thousands of other fish - including a few 2 metre long potato groupers - and the sum total of food available? Three tuna heads. 60 sharks, a bunch of huge groupers and a thousand itsy bitsy fish are not going to rely on three tuna heads maybe twice a week for survival.

Have we modified their behaviour? Sure - but if we never did that feed ever again at the same location then I'm pretty sure the sharks would modify their behaviour right back to doing what they do anyway, all by themselves, without us. One might argue that is the sharks that modify their own behaviour out of opportunity, rather than suggesting that they are somehow like a stray cat that won't leave now you've fed it.

There was a recent article in one of the British diver magazines about the south african great white cage diving phenomenon - and it contained a report that the Pointers would come and investigate, bash the cage a few times, get bored and leave. After a week, the same sharks would know that there was nothing edible and not even bother approaching the boat, ignoring the chum line and doing what they do normally.

My feeling is that shark feeding is a bit like zoos, but not as restrictive. No, it is not nice to keep animals in a zoo, even if it's a really good one, but if seeing two giraffes in a zoo in London inspires a generation of kids who would never see one for real to be concerned about them, then this is a good thing, surely, especially with sharks who have been slaughtered mercilessly over the last few decades, partly because of a Hollywood blockbuster. If you want exploitation - I found a small Shark museum in Australia which seemed really cool until I looked at the brochure which showed the proprietor standing proudly in front of three fully grown great whites that he had killed on the same day.

I would suggest that shark feeding dives show a behaviour entirely opposite to what some people think. Sharks are not stupid, mindless killing machines and I would suggest that during a shark feeding dive, humans are not exploiting sharks - THEY are taking advantage of US!

It's an awesome experience; good shark feed dives cause little if any stress to the animal and if a few people come out of that experience thinking that hey we maybe need to save these creatures, then that's a good thing.

In comparison with the shark finning industry, it's small beans. If chinese men could prove their virility by going Mano-y-Sharko instead of eating a rather bland soup made from dead shark fins, then the oceans would be a better place to dive.

Do it - do it right - feeding sharks is better than killing sharks, they are amongst the oldest, most graceful, most beautiful creatures on our planet.

plink plink plink.

C.

[BurhanMuntasser]

I have no problem with fish feeding as long as the food we feed them isn't bad for them. I think we have to worry more about sharks being killed because of their fins than about divers feeding them. We need to put more resources to stop the total wasteful killing.

There nothing wrong with keeping animals in Zoos as long as the animals are treated well and not abused. Zoos do provide facilities for research and animal protection they are not mere exhibits!!

[PansSiren]

I just did a bullshark dive last week in Playa del Carmen. This was my first time encountering a "top predator" type of shark (nurse sharks aren't that scary, lol). I wasn't nervous or scared at all about doing the dive - I've read and seen lots of stuff about them, which I think made me more interested, curious, comfortable, and excited about the dive. There were only 3 divers going down: me, the dive leader, and the feeder. The water was not chummed prior to entry, and the feeder brought down a modified al. 80 tank (with the top cut off and replaced with a flappy lid... or at least that's exactly what it looked like) filled with fish parts. The feeder has been doing this dive everyday for 5 years (nov-feb), whether he has a group of people or not.

We descended 80' and had about 40' vis. The sharks were already there (the feeder said he believes they know the time of day, location, sound of the boat, and where to be fed - and that he's seen some of the same sharks for years). The rought count we had was 12+ bulls. The sharks weren't in any kind of a frenzy, never went for the bait box, and very calmly and slowly swam by to take the fish from the feeders hand - which I was about 20' away form. They came very close to check me out (i was even hoping to get bumped, but to no avail! - although a tail touched me!). It had to be the most surreal momment of my life to come face to face with one of world's most perfect predator, with his eyeball looking directly into mine at only 4-6 inches away. Although I slightly wondered, 'what am I doing down here,' I never once felt scared or nervous. It was actually very peaceful, calming, and exciting to just lay on the ocean floor and watch these truly magnificient creatures in real life.

I think it would be more amazing and special to experience sharks without the lure of feeding, but in regards to wether the practice is right or not, I think it's a good thing. Sharks are very intelligent. They'll learn where to come for a free meal, but not every shark fed and I don't think the entire contents of the container could sustain 1 single shark, so they obviously won't become dependent on it (and they don't only stay for a few months). They know what's food and what's not, ie: humans are not food - and I don't believe they will ever get used to being around humans which will cause us to become part of the menu. I also think this practice is beneficial for the study of sharks, to help show their anatomy, how they operate, their intelligence, migratory patterns, personality, behavior, etc. The more we learn about them, the more and more of the "Jaws" myths go away. Maybe they're not all cracked up as their known to be. Of course they are extremely dangerous beasts, but if you educate yourself about them and interact with them in a cautious and respectful manner, chances are substantially on your side. People around the globe have been diving with sharks every day for years and years and years and years... and how many deaths are there? ... and how many were the result of blood loss (not being killed by the shark)? ... and how many can be explained by some fault of the diver and/or dive conditions? Even with crazy agressive/destructive footage on Discvovery documentaries, you gotta realise that people were under the water filming the entire thing and no1 was harmed. I think the storytelling is what makes people afraid.

... and sorry for the rambling wall of text, I have a million things going on in my head about this... and I probably didn't word some of it the best way.

[Paladin]

I have never been on a shark feeding dive but I have spent many happy dive hours feeding fish in fresh water. Until this past summer, I saw no harm in it and and, had things not changed, would have gone on feeding my little finned buddies for years to come.

What changed was the places where I was diving. Until the summer of 2009, my dive sites varied with my whim. Summersville Lake, Sutton Lake, Coal River, the Ohio River and Smith Mountain Lake were my usual haunts, but seldom the same place in any of those bodies of water. For this reason, the fish I fed were not accustomed to being hand fed by a human.

I made my first quarry dive at Twin Quarries in 2009 and immediately noticed the odd behavior of the fish there. Whenever a diver (or anyone) gets close the the water's edge, the fish school together in large numbers, eyeing the human hungrily. Bluegill, bass, catfish, and other species all clump together in what I can only describe as a mob of scaly assailants. A diver cannot go anywhere underwater without this mob crowding around, begging for handouts. Underwater photography is very difficult with a dozen or so fish pecking at the camera lens.

Things became even worse this past summer. The fish have become downright aggressive in their demands to be fed. They nibble at fingers, toes, ears; anything that looks even remotely food-like. My dive buddy made the mistake of diving without a wetsuit and a large bluegill bit him on the nipple, hard enough to draw blood. The quarry has put up a sign prohibiting the feeding of the fish, but I fear the damage has been done.

As much as I have enjoyed feeding fish in the past, I have been forced to re-evaluate my actions.

Because of the above, I wonder about the wisdom of feeding large, wild predators like sharks; especially known maneaters like bull sharks and tiger sharks. If an eight-inch bluegill can become aggressive enough to fancy himself a maneater, I have to doubt the wisdom of hand feeding a large fish that has an aggressive nature to begin with.

[NWGratefulDiver]

I'm not a big fan of feeding wild animals in any setting. First off, it changes their behavior ... the animal that comes around looking to be fed would normally be either approaching cautiously or swimming/running away from humans. Secondly, it often creates a dependency situation where these animals lose the urge to hunt for their natural food.

So in effect, you really aren't seeing animals in the wild ... you're seeing the aquatic variant of a trained squirrel.

And if, for any reason, the feeding process results in injury to a human, it always turns out badly for the animal.

If you want to feed animals, get a dog ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[knowone]

No wild animal should be fed by humans. My 2cents

This is worth at least a buck fifty.

These graceful yet deadly water animals have the frenzied land animals conned like cats.



Hey BurhanMuntasser I only feed them International Heart Foundation approved microwaved dinners so I can lure them in to make soup after I've finished studying you locked in your place after you lost your key, respectfully.


Now if you're talking about millions of Hectares of attempted managed park not much can be done about that and yet they still constantly mess it up.


How far will our hubris have extended once we finally move into the ocean?

Oh that's right it will have become land.

[DandyDon]

I do put out birdseed and hummingbird mix as that seems to be different for some reason. The prairie dogs and ground squirrels do okay in spite of our farming and I avoid feed wildlife on camping trips if I can keep the raccoons out of the coolers and deer out of the trash. I absolutely refuse to supply rattlesnakes with treats. :eek:

[BurhanMuntasser]

This is worth at least a buck fifty.

These graceful yet deadly water animals have the frenzied land animals conned like cats.



Hey BurhanMuntasser I only feed them International Heart Foundation approved microwaved dinners so I can lure them in to make soup after I've finished studying you locked in your place after you lost your key, respectfully.


Now if you're talking about millions of Hectares of attempted managed park not much can be done about that and yet they still constantly mess it up.


How far will our hubris have extended once we finally move into the ocean?

Oh that's right it will have become land.

Sorry, it must be my weak English, but I am not following what you are trying to say or to see what your point is.

[NWGratefulDiver]

Sorry, it must be my weak English, but I am not following what you are trying to say or to see what your point is.

It's part of his charm ... if language was art, knowone would be Picasso ... :D

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[vladimir]

It's part of his charm ... if language was art, knowone would be Picasso ... :D

... Bob (Grateful Diver)More like Jackson Pollock, I think, but a great artist, nevertheless.;)

[Paladin]

If I ever start to actually understand Knowone, I think I'll have myself committed!:rofl3:

[BurhanMuntasser]

Hummm, it is not my English but rather it is his not using English is the problem.

[diver 85]

My latest was the (Tiger) Shark dive in Beqa Lagoon, Fiji.....below, see some of the stills & videos we took back a couple months ago...Sept 2010....btw, 2 came in on us--a 14' & a 18 ft'er

esp look @ the 1st 6 or 7 videos, they're the best I think.
Fiji shark dive pictures by GEAUXtiger - Photobucket (http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/GEAUXtiger/Fiji%20shark%20dive/)

[DandyDon]

Accidental chumming: Dead sheep may have sparked Egypt shark maulings: Governor (http://www.montrealgazette.com/technology/Dead+sheep+have+sparked+Egypt+shark+maulings+Gover nor/3916994/story.html)

[Brian Sharpe]

..... Do we go on nature hikes and feed the bears? Is there a difference? ...........



I think that's a very apt analogy.

I have yet to see a shark in the wild & would love to but the idea of intentionally acclimating top-of-the-foodchain predators to scuba divers doesn't strike me as the brightest idea.


Take only pictures & leave only bubbles.

[Paladin]

I think that's a very apt analogy.

I have yet to see a shark in the wild & would love to but the idea of intentionally acclimating top-of-the-food chain predators to scuba divers doesn't strike me as the brightest idea.


Take only pictures & leave only bubbles.

Considering what I've seen of supposedly harmless freshwater species, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

[tyesai]

Accidental chumming: Dead sheep may have sparked Egypt shark maulings: Governor (http://www.montrealgazette.com/technology/Dead+sheep+have+sparked+Egypt+shark+maulings+Gover nor/3916994/story.html)

And that is exactly why I don't swim with dead sheep or discarded livers, jeez didn't these peoples parents teach them anything.

Interesting read Don, were do you find this stuff?

Don't we have a regular poster that is a divemaster in Egypt, maybe he will chime in.

[tyesai]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stroke1970
..... Do we go on nature hikes and feed the bears? Is there a difference? ...........
I think that's a very apt analogy.


I think comparing large land mammals to fish is the opposite of apt.

[DandyDon]

I think comparing large land mammals to fish is the opposite of apt.
I think that he meant that when we feed bears, deer, chipmunks, sharks, etc - the animals come to think of us and our vehicles as food sources therefore expecting food when they encounter us.

Then, in some cases the bears attack cars and the people inside, deer run into the path of cars more, chipmunks have been know to scurry onto people searching for food (they carry plague and other diseases), and sharks bite swimmers by mistake.

In some other cases, the bears & deer have to be removed or killed by park rangers, fishermen remove all of the sharks attracted by the boat motor, but we can only try to outrun the chipmunks.

[tyesai]

I think that he meant that when we feed bears, deer, chipmunks, sharks, etc - the animals come to think of us and our vehicles as food sources therefore expecting food when they encounter us.

Then, in some cases the bears attack cars and the people inside, deer run into the path of cars more, chipmunks have been know to scurry onto people searching for food (they carry plague and other diseases), and sharks bite swimmers by mistake.

In some other cases, the bears & deer have to be removed or killed by park rangers, fishermen remove all of the sharks attracted by the boat motor, but we can only try to outrun the chipmunks.

Tracking.

But you would think by now that if people were going to be confused for shark food there would be a whole lot of dead people by now.

[DandyDon]

Tracking.

But you would think by now that if people were going to be confused for shark food there would be a whole lot of dead people by now.
Perhaps. Shark hits do happen, as in the dead sheep story about, but not only do some people get injured, many sharks are killed in retaliation, under the guise of removing the killer.

Then there is this story: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/cozumel/359432-pdc-bull-sharks-wiped-out.html

And many more.

[NWGratefulDiver]

... but we can only try to outrun the chipmunks.


... and the aquatic equivalent of chipmunks is clownfish. I had no idea those little buggers were so aggressive ... and they BITE!

Now every time I watch Finding Nemo I cheer for the barracuda ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[vondo]

I have been on several shark feeding dives (usually live aboards). The first time was cool. I was a brand new diver had never been around or seen sharks, but have always been fascinated by them. After the first time, the rest of the feedings I have been on, I really could have cared less if it was done, but understand for those other new divers who want to see the experience. I much more prefer to see the sharks anymore, doing their natural behaviors. Are the feedings a good thing? I don't know... I see both sides. 1- it conditions the sharks to being fed by humans, reducing their natural fear of humans. 2- the sharks are not doing their natural thing. On the other side, I can see where it may be a bit of an educational thing for some divers who might not get any other chance to see sharks while diving. While yes, some of their behavior is not natural, some of it is, also. If anything, I look at it as a necessary evil (for lack of a better term), kind of like zoological parks & such.

That just about exactly sums up my experience. Actually the best "shark dive" I ever had was at a site where another company fed sharks, but the group I was with did not. Also not natural, but I didn't feel I was contributing to it by swimming around with a lot of curious and brave reef sharks.

[novicediver]

My own personal impression is we have a negative enough impact on the (both underwater and on land) environment as it is, we probably shouldn't be making it worse.

[1dwyatt]

I dive with seven Gill sharks at the aquarium where I volunteer dive. For the most part it is pretty routeen. I did a shrk dive while I was in Fiji this summer. Like the other comment here there were so many other smaller fish there you could hardly see the sharks. That being said, The shark dive was fun, Got to see a big female Tiger up close for the first time. Several Bulls and a nurse shark here and there. Yes it is a bit contrived baiting them in. A few years ago while in Costa Rica I did a bull shark dive. They were not baited in. They new where they hung out and go to that spot and just set on the bottom and wait. They come around you and check you out and go on there way. That encounter was way cool! Just you and them and not a big school of fish trying to eat the bait, more natural. So I would prefer to see them in a more natural enviroment but I am not totally against shark feeding. Most of the time on regular dives most sharks are not that interested in you.