If you are interested in technical diving, but don"t have the certification or experience for the TecDeep Diver course, the DSAT Apprentice TecDeep Diver course is a sub-course within the TecDeep Diver course just for you.
This course teaches you to make gas switch, extended no-decompression dives using air and enriched air to 40 metres/130 feet using air, enriched air (with up to 60% oxygen) using technical diving equipment and technologies.
The training dives allow you to develop the motor skills necessary to complete technical diving.
Additionally, it trains you to prepare for and respond to foreseeable emergencies that may occur in technical diving. Since it is part of the TecDeep Diver course, your training becomes a credit towards the DSAT TecDeep Diver course.
To enroll in the Apprentice TecDiver course, you must:
· Be certified as PADI Advanced Open Water Diver or equivalent.
· Be certified as a PADI Enriched Air Diver or equivalent.
· Be certified as a PADI Deep Diver or equivalent.
· Be 18 years of age.
· Have a minimum of 50 logged dives of which at least 10 must be enriched air dives, 12 dives must be deeper than 18 metres/60 feet and at least 6 dives must be deeper than 30 metres/100 feet.
Thanks for the advice so far!
Paul
MechDiver
September 8th, 2003, 10:03 AM
6474286 once bubbled...
MD,
This course teaches you to make gas switch, extended no-decompression dives using air and enriched air to 40 metres/130 feet using air, enriched air (with up to 60% oxygen) using technical diving equipment and technologies.
Paul
Gas switch, extended NO-deco dives :confused: with 60% O2?? Who the blazes uses 60% O2? Egad!
I would run, not walk away from this.
FWIW, my Adv. Nitrox/Deep with IANTD did alot more than this, with actual deco dives, with doubles. It also was not cheap by any means.
And to be quite frank, and no disrespect intended, if you can only make the minimum shown for this class, you are not ready for this type of diving and the IANTD classes.
MD
pwfletcher
September 8th, 2003, 10:04 AM
In my humble opinion, if you are taking the course merely to learn technical diving skills, then I would say that the instructor that you chose is more important than the agency that you are certified by. However, if you plan on becoming a DM or Instructor in the future, as indicated in your profile, then PADI is more marketable worldwide than IANTD.
GeekDiver
September 8th, 2003, 10:16 AM
I was looking into the DSAT tec course myself. I used to have an outline of the Dive profiles and performance objectives. If I remember it was 12 dives with the last dive to 145-165 range. I'll look around and see if I can find them and will PM you if I can.
Dives are made with doubles and 1-2 stage bottles depending on the dive. EQ reqmts are at least twin 72's or bigger, stages are min 40 cf, redundant lift such as a drysuit or second bladder, long hose and bungied alt air around the neck. Dual regulators with iso valve.
I havn't been though the IANTD course so can't speak about it but from the stuff I've read they both look to have about the same goals and performance objectives on learning how to conduct Deco Diving with accelerated deco stops using a high O2 nitrox blend.
PS, I know that PADI is working on a trimix class so I s'pose it will complement the DSAT Tec class.
MechDiver
September 8th, 2003, 11:41 AM
GeekDiver once bubbled...
the last dive to 145-165 range. I'll look around and see if I can find them and will PM you if I can.
I havn't been though the IANTD course so can't speak about it but from the stuff I've read they both look to have about the same goals and performance objectives on learning how to conduct Deco Diving with accelerated deco stops using a high O2 nitrox blend.
The poster was comparing the Adv. Nitrox to the DSAT Apprendice class, not the full REC/Tec.
Also, IANTD does not dive below 130', and that is with EAN. There is no deep air with that class, or with Deep Diver.
MD
pwfletcher
September 8th, 2003, 07:36 PM
And don't forget to check out ANDI. They offer great tech classes. However, be prepared to do alot of math in an ANDI class. They are very thorough when it comes to physics and physiology.
DiveTub
September 8th, 2003, 07:41 PM
Find yourself an excellent instructor that is both IANTD and PADUI TEC REC then do the courses at the same time side by side. This is how I did it, and I sure got alot more than if I was only to do one of the courses.
100days-a-year
September 8th, 2003, 08:53 PM
My experience with IANTD classes (done a few years ago,Nitrox,Advanced nitrox,Technical nitrox,Deep Air,Tri-Mix and blender courses )left me with impression that instructors are much more important than agency.The curricula was horrid and very lacking in theory.DSAT seems more complete.Mentoring with experienced divers is valuable too.
6474286
September 9th, 2003, 12:28 AM
:)
Good Morning All,
Thankyou for your comments, my instructor has offered either the IANTD course or the DSAT courses.
I think I am more inclined to go with the DSAT course, as in his words, it is a better course and had better skill requirements.
The other thing is that I know of 5 divers who are alredy part way through this course at the moment, so I will be able to dive with a varity of buddys.
Thanks again
Paul
blackice
September 9th, 2003, 01:01 AM
Any comments on TDI? I'm planning on doing my Advanced Nitrox/Deco Procedures with them in a couple of months.
Scuba_Vixen
September 10th, 2003, 02:42 AM
But the instructor is what makes or breaks any course. I did the TDI route as it was the only one available. I also have the IANTD and DSAT Rec-Tec materials as well. You never can have too many information sources available to you. There have been some good threads on TDS from folks who have recently done both DSAT and TDI courses and related in detail what the classes involved. From looking at it overall, the Rec-Tec course is a bit more complete in it's purpose to train you to be a new, but competant, tech diver. The TDI approach is more modular, where you need to take multiple classes to get the same training as in Rec-Tec. By the time you get to the same level in either system, you'll be spending about the same $$$$. TDI's approach lets you pace yourself and your funds a bit easier.
A lot depends on what you want to get out of the classes, are you tech bound, or just want to stay at 120' a bit longer than recreational and learn to do deco properly. Advanced Nitrox/deco proc. can be done with a single (large capacity with H valve) cylinder and a single 40cft deco bottle, but most instructors will stipulate doubles and two 40's. The Rec-Tec is designed around doubles and 2 stage/deco bottles. The video shows all Al80's for stage/deco, ask the instructor if you start with 40's and then use 80's, or just need 80's to begin with. The Rec-Tec is definately more gear intensive to start, but by the time you'd get to the same level of diving in TDI, you'd have the same amount of gear anyway. It's just how fast you have the money available to persue your goal.
As far as the course materials, Rec-Tec is as complete a student workbook as they come, blows the others away. It's well organized, easy to follow, has video available to see the skills being performed, get the crew pac even if you don't do the Rec-Tec course. It's good reference material. My TDI workbooks are much more "in need of instructor embellishment", You really need a great instructor here. The power point presentation that gets presented just isn't all that wonderful. Once you get to the skills, and that's what it's all about, I don't think you'll find any differences there. No matter what course you take, you'll be able to share air, do valve drills, don/doff stages, hold stops in open water etc.
Either way you go, be prepaired to work hard, that level of skills should make your DM course seem like OW by comparison.
Darlene
cornfed
September 10th, 2003, 11:32 AM
6474286 once bubbled...
This course teaches you to make gas switch, extended no-decompression dives using air and enriched air to 40 metres/130 feet using air, enriched air (with up to 60% oxygen) using technical diving equipment and technologies.
What is an "extended no-decompression" dive?
O-ring
September 10th, 2003, 11:38 AM
cornfed once bubbled...
What is an "extended no-decompression" dive?
My guess:
1) a bounce dive to 160 or so that you just come straight to the surface from (after being drunk and letting your dangling console computer clear).
or
2) spending a few hours at 8' breathing 60% o2 and hovering in an indian style sitting position holding your fin tips.
MechDiver
September 10th, 2003, 11:58 AM
O-ring once bubbled...
2) spending a few hours at 8' breathing 60% o2 and hovering in an indian style sitting position holding your fin tips.
Wouldn't that tend to kink your p-valve plumbing :confused:
cornfed
September 10th, 2003, 11:58 AM
O-ring once bubbled...
My guess:
1) a bounce dive to 160 or so that you just come straight to the surface from (after being drunk and letting your dangling console computer clear).
or
2) spending a few hours at 8' breathing 60% o2 and hovering in an indian style sitting position holding your fin tips.
Damn, you're cranky today! ;)
6474286
September 10th, 2003, 12:25 PM
Darlene,
Thankyou for your comments, and apologies for not responding sooner! I started to reply to you, whilst I was at work, but things got a little busy and I never managed to respond.
Well anyway, Thankyou for the comments, they have proved extremely useful, and I have decided to take the Tec Rec route.
With regards to the instructor, I am very lucky to have an instructor who I can easily get on with and whose instruction I find very good.
Thanks again
Paul
Scuba_Vixen
September 11th, 2003, 03:05 AM
It's a good course. I think it was Pez De Diablo that related in detail how the class went on the decostop board. If you do a search, I'm sure you could find it.
As far as gas switch extended no decompresion dives: What they mean is simply changing gasses to a higher O2 percentage as you do shallower parts of the dive so you have an overall longer NDL time than you would have if using only bottom mix. It would work well on a wall dive with a reef at the top, or a wreck with a lot of structure to check out significantly shallower than the portion on the bottom. An example might be: dive the wall at 120' on 30%, then ascend to the coral heads and canyons between them at the top of the wall at 80' and switch to 40%, then work back towards shallower reef at 40' and switch to 60%. You could make that a no stop dive, and it would definately be longer than you'd get on the bottom mix (30%) alone. Does it make a lot of sense? Probably not. I'm sure it has more to do with not imposing an overhead (deco) on those with less than the required prerequisite experience and rescue training to take the full course although they do get the gas switch training and practice that will be used for deco in the future.
The difference between the apprentice tec and tec deep diver are in the prerequisites and the type of proceedures certified.
Prereq. differences:
Apprentice tec doesn't require rescue cert.
Apprentice tec requires only half the logged dives
Certification differences:
Apprentice can Not do deco dives
Apprentice depth limit is 130'...same as recreational
Tec Deep Can do deco and accellerated deco (meaning higher O2 than the bottom gas) dives
Tec Deep depth limit is 165'
I can't intelligently see starting this kind of training without the course and dive experience prerequisites for the Tec Deep Diver cert, but we all have our own opinions.
Hope that filled in some blanks for those not familliar with the courses.
Darlene
Scuba_Vixen
September 11th, 2003, 03:15 AM
Apprentice tec can only use up to 60% O2, Tec Deep can use up to 100%.
Again, the logic escapes me, unless it's the thought that 60% can be a reasonable bottom mix, but anything higher is "for deco use only".
