Is It worth it?

[Scuba Dooba 12]

I have 2 questians.

1. Is it worth 12 g's to get a Rebreather and get cerified?
Is it realy that much of an Advantage?
2. Can you get a FFM for a rebreather used by rec divers?


I think It would be great to use a Rebreather, but I have heard they break down more then the normal SCUBA equipment.

(If I had the money and knew that I had about the same chances of survival as a normal SCUBA diver) I WOULD GET IT!

thank you for you info;)

[Don Burke]

Scuba Dooba 12 once bubbled...
I have 2 questians.

1. Is it worth 12 g's to get a Rebreather and get cerified?
Is it realy that much of an Advantage?
2. Can you get a FFM for a rebreather used by rec divers?


I think It would be great to use a Rebreather, but I have heard they break down more then the normal SCUBA equipment.

(If I had the money and knew that I had about the same chances of survival as a normal SCUBA diver) I WOULD GET IT!

thank you for you info;)

1. Is it that much harder to use open circuit? If you need more gas than you can carry for open circuit, it might be worth it. It isn't even close for me. I can buy an awfully large pile of tanks (and a compressor) for what a rebreather costs. I can keep those tanks in hydro and visual and buy gas fills (or do my own partial pressure blending) for considerably less than the operating costs of a rebreather would be.

2. Yes

There are quite a few more failure points in a rebreather and the recovery may be considerably more difficult.

They are considerably safer than they used to be, but not perfect. Even if they were perfectly safe, I can't see spending the money for something that won't really gain me anything. My dive runtime is generally limited by the amount of deco I'm willing to tolerate, not the amount of gas I can carry.

[Scuba Dooba 12]

So now were can I get a FFM and a ReBreather that makes no bubbles for under 10g's and then my certification for 2 more g's?
I DON't HAVE THIS KIND MONEY. But I mite later on. I just wanna see how much money for the hole cubbuttle. thx for your reply:)

(Should I just get nitrox certified and get a FFM instead?)

[Don Burke]

Scuba Dooba 12 once bubbled...
So now were can I get a FFM and a ReBreather that makes no bubbles for under 10g's and then my certification for 2 more g's?
I DON't HAVE THIS KIND MONEY. But I mite later on. I just wanna see how much money for the hole cubbuttle. thx for your reply:)

(Should I just get nitrox certified and get a FFM instead?)

A twelve thousand dollar budget will get you killed. The people I have seen doing rebreathers well are more along the lines of twenty-five thousand dollars into gear and training.

Get nitrox certified and if you want to fiddle with a full face mask, use a hookah rig. You can get up and running on hookah for a few thousand, sometimes far less.

[anthony12]

Ill see If I can help,

I converted to an Inspiration and have close to 200 hours on it.
It is not really any harder to use than OC, just different. It does take a little more time to set up, but since it is the only piece of gear for a hole weekend of diving, thats not a concern(no switching tanks between dives ect.

I am getting my trimix cert now. If you are a trimix diver and do it frequently I can see it paying for itself pretty quickly. A trimix dilutent fill costs me $10(21/35). My OC buddies pay about $70 for thiers. Also my $10 fill lasts about 4-5 hours.

There are some full face masks for ccr, with new ones scheduled to be released in the future such as M-48.

If your are a photographer the lack of bubles and noise will be worth it in the quality of photos you'll be able to get. I can assure you any OC diver has not seen the things you will see on a RB.

PS You can get an inspiration and the training for 10K

They are only as safe as you are. Failure modes should not be a problem if you are trained properly. OC has failure modes as well. Not being exerienced in CCR and listening to those not experienced in CCR the failure modes can seem overwhelming, but I assure you with proper training and proper gear maintenece these are not unmanagable.

If you dive frequently, dive deep, or are a photographer the money spent on a RB is money well spent. If you do 1 70' dive a year then there would be no need for a RB.

Dead silence, no bubbles, warm breathing air, phenominal bottom times.........nothing beats a RB.

[scubahubby]

Scuba Dooba 12 once bubbled...
1. Is it worth 12 g's to get a Rebreather and get cerified?
[/B]

You can enter the world of rebreathers for substantially less than that. Semi Closed Rebreathers have some advantage over open circuit and units like the Drager Ray and Dolphin cost only a few thousand.

Closed Circuit Rebreathers offer substantially more benefits (and are more complex) depending on the type of diving you do. Most of the currently popular units do cost 8K+ but the KISS rebreather (www.jetsam.ca) costs just over $4K, effectively almost $5K when you add in the cylinders and other bits you need to purchase separately. Add training and you are still taking half your figure.


Scuba Dooba 12 once bubbled...
2. Can you get a FFM for a rebreather used by rec divers?
[/B]

A FFM for a rebreather should be one of the units that keep the air space for the eyes and nose separate from the air space for the mouth. Both to reduce dead space in the loop (potential CO2 issues) and to avoid fogging problems. Some FFMs designed for OC intentionally force inhaled gas to flow over the lense in order to automatically defog the mask. This works because OC air is very dry. Rebreather air is very warm and moist and will cause fogging in cooler waters.

[rbdave]

My dive runtime is generally limited by the amount of deco I'm willing to tolerate,

And here in lies the big advantage of a CCR. Much longer bottom times with less deco.

The difference in the quality of the dives you have is huge. I was recently within touching distance of 2 humpback whales on my CCR.

Cheers

Dave

[caveseeker7]

... on how and why you dive. I agree with most everything said so far.
If considering a RB you should have a good look at the way you dive, and see what kind of RB would work best for you, if at all. If you're an avid photographer, a rebreather might be as usefull a tool as a strobe or a light meter. If you dive extended range, both depth and duration, a rebreather might well be the only way you can go. As mentioned, if you clock enough trimix dives, even an expensive CCR might pay off.

There are a couple of good websites on the subject, as well as two books:
Steve Barsky's 'Complete Guide to Rebreathers' and Jeff Bozanic's 'Mastering Rebreathers'.

Some links:
Rebreathers in general:
http://www.therebreathersite.nl/

Richard Pyle's Guide to rb diving:
http://www.bishopmuseum.org/research/treks/palautz97/rb.html

Inspiration CCR:
http://www.ambientpressurediving.com/
http://www.btinternet.com/~madmole/divemole.htm

Prism Topaz CCR:
http://www.steammachines.com/

Megalodon CCR:
http://www.customrebreathers.com/

KISS CCR (manually controled):
http://www.jetsam.ca/

RB80 SCR (passive):
http://www.halcyon.net/

Azimuth SCR (active):
http://www.divesafe.net/

Dolphin (& Ray - active):
http://www.aqualung.com/

M-48 mask:
http://www.kmdsi.com/

AGA to RB adapters:
http://www.divenet.com/divematics/

Rodale's somewhat simplified and unexact article on
eight different RBs:
http://www.scubadiving.com/gear/8rebreathers/review.shtml

That ought to keep you busy for a while.;)
There are plenty of good threads here at the board, use the search function for more on models, supplies, FFMs etc..

[Don Burke]

rbdave once bubbled...
And here in lies the big advantage of a CCR. Much longer bottom times with less deco.

The difference in the quality of the dives you have is huge. I was recently within touching distance of 2 humpback whales on my CCR.

Cheers

Dave
...and upon further review, I stand corrected.

Thank you,
Don

[padiscubapro]

Don Burke once bubbled...


1. Is it that much harder to use open circuit? If you need more gas than you can carry for open circuit, it might be worth it. It isn't even close for me. I can buy an awfully large pile of tanks (and a compressor) for what a rebreather costs. I can keep those tanks in hydro and visual and buy gas fills (or do my own partial pressure blending) for considerably less than the operating costs of a rebreather would be.

2. Yes

There are quite a few more failure points in a rebreather and the recovery may be considerably more difficult.

They are considerably safer than they used to be, but not perfect. Even if they were perfectly safe, I can't see spending the money for something that won't really gain me anything. My dive runtime is generally limited by the amount of deco I'm willing to tolerate, not the amount of gas I can carry.

For the properly trainded and experienced CCR divers have more ways to get themselves out of trouble when things go wrong.

I find the greatest advantage is that of how close you can get to marinelife.. there are not many OC divers can claim the can swim along with creatures like Spotted eagle rays not just a passing encounter... Half the dives I do would be impossible in an open water situation (not a cave where you can stage lots of cylinders)..

try cruising a wall @ 200 - 250 for an hour, asecnding to the 60 ft range (after doing your deep stops) and cruising for another hour before settling in to do what remaining deco you have.. Since you have been raising you fo2 the entire way up, you complet most of your deco while enjoying yourself..

or do 300 for 30 minutes.. forget about the deco gas requirements, just thing how mucg primary gas you would have to carry..... with a reasonable RMV ov .7 that would be 210ft of gas with no reserve... youd want at least 100 cft of resever gas, plus whatever now is required for your deeper stops...

You can do much longer dives to greater depths and still have much less deco time..

[BigJetDriver]

I'd like to thank Caveseeker7 for one of the best listings of RB links that I have seen.

If I may, I'd like to add:

Widolf FFM's and RB parts, as well as the AGA adaptors
that Caveseeker mentioned
<www.divenet.com/divematics>

Hammerhead Control System and parts
<www.electricfilm.com>

Also
<www.nwdesigns.com/rebreathers>

As Caveseeker pointed out, there is a LOT of information included in all of those listings! Happy reading!;)

[Scuba Dooba 12]

Thank you for your awnsweirs. I geuse it is worth it. On this link http://www.scubadiving.com/gear/8rebreathers/review.shtml It seis that the Buddy inperation CCR is only 6,200$. I thought it would be 12,000+ Can some one explain. I'm glad their is FFM for RBs because I don't like to put my hand to my face every time I have to equalize. I'm lazy. Out of what I read Rebreathers are just as safe as normal Scuba eqipment if you know what you are doing
;)
So I think after I get that kinf of mone RBs are the way for me.
THX GUYS:)

[caveseeker7]

Scuba Dooba 12 once bubbled...
Thank you for your awnsweirs. I geuse it is worth it. On this link http://www.scubadiving.com/gear/8rebreathers/review.shtml It seis that the Buddy inperation CCR is only 6,200$. I thought it would be 12,000+ Can some one explain.
The article was written a while ago. The current price for the Inspiration is about $7000, a bit more with the larger 22kg wing, and the ADV is optional and recommended.

Scuba Dooba 12 once bubbled...

I'm glad their is FFM for RBs because I don't like to put my hand to my face every time I have to equalize.
That bit I don't understand. You still need to equalize. With the M-48 it's done the same way as a standard half mask, with the AGA you press the entire mask to close your nostrils with the noseblock. Unless you can equalize by swallowing.

Scuba Dooba 12 once bubbled...

I'm lazy. Out of what I read Rebreathers are just as safe as normal Scuba eqipment if you know what you are doing.
So I think after I get that kinf of mone RBs are the way for me.
THX GUYS:)
With proper training, skills, preperation etc. a rebreather can be dived safely.
However, all of the above are more involved than OC diving. If you are, as you say, lazy, a rebreather is the last thing you ever want to dive. Otherwise, it might just become the last thing you ever will dive. :upset:

[Todd]

Hi Folks:

It might help, if my math is correct, to point out that Scuba Dooba 12 is just starting the 8th grade...

Todd.

[caveseeker7]

Todd once bubbled...
Hi Folks:

It might help, if my math is correct, to point out that Scoba Dooba 12 is just starting the 8th grade...

Todd.
Hey, that's great. If he can fit into the Prisms transparent scrubber cannister he can go on a ride-along. ;)