Primer vs. Fundies

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

scc135

Contributor
Messages
1,892
Reaction score
218
Location
Fresh Meadows, NY
# of dives
50 - 99
I was originally interested in fundies, but couldn't commit a week to it. However, I was told a bit about GUE primer. Having looked at the GUE website, basically primer is just the basic basic skills set for yourself (trim, buoyancy, etc) and fundies is skill set for team in addition to yourself?
 
Primer is a sort of Fundies light. You'll cover many of the basic personal skills (buoyancy, trim, fin kicks, etc, plus get to see/use the standard DIR gear), but with less time for in class skill refinement, nor will you be held to any real bar since it isn't a pass/fail course (though your instructor will obviously demonstrate the bar and encourage/help you to achieve it). In Primer, there isn't nearly the emphasis on team diving / situational awareness (the real heart of "DIR") as in Fundies. You also won't cover as much academic material in Primer (e.g. Fundies also serves as a nitrox course).

For those who want to focus mostly on the personal skills and try some new equipment, Primer seems to be a great introduction. For someone looking to get into DIR diving, Fundies might be the better bet.
 
perhaps ask your instructor to split fundies up over two weekends? that's what I ended up doing
 
The Primer is designed for people who, for whatever reason, are not quite ready, or don't feel themselves ready, to go through the whole Fundies class. Typical students for the Primer are people who have just changed their gear and aren't solid in it yet, or people who don't have buddies with whom to practice or from whom to get feedback. It's an introduction to the system, and to the standard of performance that is expected in GUE classes, but in a lower-stress setting, because there is no pass or fail. I don't think everybody considering Fundies needs to do the Primer first, but if you can't or don't want to move straight into Fundamentals, the Primer is an excellent way to get your feet wet (so to speak!).
 
If you are not already out diving with DIR buddies/mentors, I'd suggest taking a Primer course sooner rather than later.
 
I have dived with people who have taken fundies and man, was there a serious difference between mine and their skill levels. Of course, new gear, new environment and all that did not help at all either. Fundies over 2 weekends would be good too...

I'm just afraid that I would take fundies and be a complete wash-out, so primer seemed a good start. What happens if you fail? retake it completely or do you just do skill tests later on? What exactly does a "fail" mean? I get that you don't meet the expectations or skill set necessary, so you can't continue on with gue training until you finish fundies?
 
Greetings,

As others have mentioned, the Primer is both your introduction to GUE and a workshop on the foundational skills of buoyancy, trim, and propulsion. It is heavily weighted towards in-water work but does include some classroom components. There is no "pass-fail" in this class and this really helps alleviate a lot of the "pre game jitters" that we see in many fundamentals students. You can concentrate on becoming a better diver who is more confident, capable and comfortable in the water. If you choose to continue on within the GUE training curriculum, you will find that having taken the primer and then practising those skills stands you in very good stead for the Fundamentals class. There is an article coming out in the next edition of Quest magazine which examines the primer class in some detail. Become a GUE member and you will receive it electronically :)

Best,

Guy Shockey
GUE Instructor
 
Last edited:
I have dived with people who have taken fundies and man, was there a serious difference between mine and their skill levels.

Everybody started somewhere :D

I'm just afraid that I would take fundies and be a complete wash-out, so primer seemed a good start. What happens if you fail? retake it completely or do you just do skill tests later on? What exactly does a "fail" mean? I get that you don't meet the expectations or skill set necessary, so you can't continue on with gue training until you finish fundies?

This is an oft-discussed topic and can be the source of consternation for some. Let me build on Guy's description of the Primer curriculum with a bit of explanation on the goals and evaluation criteria for the Fundamentals class. Firstly, the fundamentals class serves a dual purpose: to build and refine foundational skills (both personal and team skills), as well as to provide an entry into the GUE curriculum for those divers who received their initial training through other agencies. The Fundamentals class is also a pre-requisite for moving on to more advanced training (tech or cave) through GUE. Aside from that, the Fundamentals doesn't really certify you to expand the range of your diving beyond whatever it currently is (though we do certify the use of 32% nitrox).

Given that, the main value (as I see it) of the fundamentals class is the time you have in-class with the instructor(s) and the practice, feedback, and refinement.

At the conclusion of the class, there is an evaluation and there are certain criteria that must be met for certification. If those criteria are not met, there are 2 possible outcomes, a "provisional" or a "fail". The distinction is a bit subjective, but I tend to look at somebody who is close, but has one or two areas that need to be cleaned up (and could reasonably meet that goal with a little practice with buddies) to meet the standards as a "provisional". On the otherhand, somebody who needs some more instructional time in order to progress and would benefit from re-taking the class, would fall more into the "fail" bucket.

Overall, I would not be overly concerned ahead of the class about "pass/fail". The real value is the instruction and not the card.

To the OP, you have a few local GUE instructors that might help steer you in the best direction to meet your goals. I'd recommend to get in touch with Bob Sherwood or Ed Hayes.

thanks,
-Rob
 
I have dived with people who have taken fundies...

If you have regular buddies who are willing to coach you a little on the basics (buoyancy, trim...) then you may be better off diving more with those buddies and not worrying too much about the Primer class. If, however, your not able to dive regularly with them or you truly feel your basic skills need that much improvement the primer class may be the way to go.

...I'm just afraid that I would take fundies and be a complete wash-out, so primer seemed a good start. ...
If you go in with the attitude that you are going to improve your diving and do the work to get there, you are going to learn a lot in Fundies, even if you don't pass on the first try. Unless you just give-up Fundies won't be a "complete wash-out".

What you don't want to do is show up to Fundies and spend a week learning just buoyancy and trim. I suspect just about any of the Fundies instructors will work with you until you have it right, but if you come in with some control and they only need to spend one dive on it, you'll get that much more out of the whole class.
 
Hi Eugene.

I took both Bob Sherwood's Primer class, and his GUE Fundies class this summer. I happened to be at Dutch Springs early in the year, and Bob let me sit in and listen to day one of a Doubles class he was teaching for ScubaSam and Henrik. What I saw, as far as control underwater, especially with Henrik (for Sam it came a bit later) was beyond anything I had seen before. That convinced me to try the upcoming Primer class.

Primer was a humbling, and eye opening experience for me. I had always seen myself as pretty good uw, skill wise. In two days I got a good taste of a whole different level of control one can achieve in the water, and got my foot in the door as far as diving BPW and dry, which was all new to me. Even after diving for nearly 40 years. Primer is just that, a class that gets you up to speed on gear, skills and the beginning of team building, that you will build on when you do take the Fundies class. If you go into Primer with an open mind, and ready to learn, you will come out a better diver for it. If you continue into Fundies, which knowing you, and our mutual friends I am pretty sure you will do, you will continue to grow as a diver by leaps and bounds. If you do NOT continue into Fundies, you will have developed significantly higher precision as a diver than anything else I was exposed to before, and I have done quite a bit of training in 39 years of diving!

Do you need Primer before Fundies? No. Will you benefit, if you take it first? In my opinion, YES! You will be that much more prepared for what you can learn in Fundies, and take even more with you from the Fundies.

I am speaking as a diver who only earned a "provisional", and may never actually "pass", due to physical limitations to my kick. BUT, pass or not, both classes gave me skills and knowledge that only made my diving more enjoyable, and safer. That, in the end was my only real goal, not some pass or certificate.
 
https://xf2.scubaboard.com/community/forums/cave-diving.45/

Back
Top Bottom