Pics just no good unless close up

[MMM]

Hi all. I am pretty untutored about photography geek talk. I have 2 Olympus cameras: a 5050 and a Stylus 1010. I'm pretty good at shooting things but have been frustrated by colour loss unless the thing is about 6 inches away from me. I bought a Olympus UFL1 strobe but that didn't seem to do the trick. It just doesn't seem to have enough juice. Any suggestions? I feel like I just need to go and buy some big honking stobes on a big honking tray but don't know how to make that work with my housing/camera. So maybe that's not the solution. Suggestions? Thanks.

[oly5050user]

use a wide angle lens and get as close as you can to fill the lcd screen.Even a big honking strobe will not work very well more than 4-5' from subject..big strobes afford a wider angle coverage,not necessarily more power.Shoot camera on manual..Use a ttl strobe for more reliable exposures.

[under water]

Marg,
Are you sure your strobe is firing at the right time.
Try shooting into a mirror with the settings you usually use.
Do you see the bright flash from the strobe?

You should be getting decent results at least a few feet away with the strobe.
Do you have any recent pix we can look at?

[slowhands]

It does sound like your strobe is not firing at the right time, or possibly your camera is set wrong. Does your camera shoot OK without the external flash, using only the internal flash? I found it OK for close subjects, like the thumbnail below.

For a simple test, put your camera in manual mode M, set the shutter to say 1/100 and the lens to f1.8. You should be able to take a photo into a mirror, and see the external flash fire too, in addition to your internal flash. I suggested M mode because then you won't have a pre-flash, which sometimes confuses external flashes.

This flash is weak, guide number 14, so it's really not great for anything but close-ups anyway. But it should help a little over the internal flash, using the external flash as a slave to your internal flash. The C5005 has several flash settings. The one you want is internal plus slave, as I recall, do check that. I used a C5050 a lot, and it's really a gem, but syncing with a flash does require the settings to be correct.

You might also want to do a search for the 5050 here on the board, and also try some settings from this article, which is a great tutorial:
Splashdown Divers - Boynton Beach, Florida - Underwater Digital Photography - 5050 Settings - 5060 Settings (http://www.splashdowndivers.com/photo_gallery/underwater_photography/up_settings.htm)

[MMM]

Hi there. I tried the photo in the mirror thing. While my strobe fired, it's not seen in the photo. But I can see the internal flash in the pic. So I think you are right about the timing issue. I'll mess around a bit with that and see what happens. I DO use the TTL setting on the strobe.

Here are a couple of pictures from yesterday....good and bad...I was shooting with the Oly1010 which doesn't have an M setting.88790

88791

88792

88793

Any other advice will be appreciaated.

[under water]

You have found your problem if you can't see the strobe flash in the mirror. I am not familiar with your particular camera's settings, but coordinating those with the strobe is the key.
Basically, it needs to be set to ignore the correct # of pre-flashes.
Some cameras do not create pre-flashes in M mode, so you might try that (if you later use a camera that has one), but that may not be how you want to shoot.
Initially I suggest setting the camera up in the mode that you like. and adjust the strobe until you see the flash in the mirror. Remember that setting. Then play around with the camera in the M mode and remember that setting in case you want to use it later.
M mode will allow you more flexibility to adjust the background relative to the foreground (think really cool dark backgrounds or rich blue open water)

[oly5050user]

camera not in sync with strobe..if you are using a fiber optic cable set camera on manual and try the mirror trick again.Avoid backscatter by blocking internal strobe from lighting area in front of camera. Also check for a switch that the strobe may have to ignore the preflash,it may have one.
If using a sync cord set via hot shoe on camera set on external strobe.Advange of using sync cord is cameras strobe will not fire,only ext strobe and battery on camera will last longer ..

[MMM]

That seems to be the trick. Having found the problem, I've fiddled around with flash options (on the 5050 in M with settings slowhands suggested I only get 2 flash options: no flash or slow) but can't seem to get external strobe to fire regardless. I wish there was someone down here who could give me a photography class! Well, I'm not diving today so will see what I can find from past posts on this board. Thanks.

[MMM]

camera not in sync with strobe..if you are using a fiber optic cable set camera on manual and try the mirror trick again.Avoid backscatter by blocking internal strobe from lighting area in front of camera. Also check for a switch that the strobe may have to ignore the preflash,it may have one.
If using a sync cord set via hot shoe on camera set on external strobe.Advange of using sync cord is cameras strobe will not fire,only ext strobe and battery on camera will last longer ..

The big selling feature by Olympus was that this particular strobe is supposed to sync to the camera's internal flash. It doesn't have a lot of switches: only TTY and M on one switch and 1/2 and full on another.

Olympus - UFL-1 (http://www.olympus-europa.com/consumer/198_ufl-1_underwater_flash.htm)

So in short, I don't have either a fiber optic cable or a sync cord (assuming they are not one and the same thing). Maybe I'm missing a needed piece of equipment?

[under water]

Make sure the camera flash is set to "FILL" (the lightning bolt), not auto or red-eye.
If you are not using a fiber optic cable to channel the internal flash to the strobe, it may not fire every time and may not be able to interpret the TTL signals from the camera.

[oly5050user]

See if there is a "slave" setting on the camera internal strobe..I do not have the camera here in front of me now,but there may be a setting for that.If so should have the external strobe on ttl and can have the camera on manual or apert. priority or shutter priority.May even work on program..

[MMM]

Yes, the 5050 has a slave setting. I've been messing around all day and get a blinding amount of light most of the time when flash is set as slave. I have set the flash to "fill in" (the jagged symbol) and then have been messing around between slave and flash/internal.

There is no similar option for the 1010. At least not that I've been able to find so far.

[MMM]

I wrote to Olympus and here is the answer I got. In short, I am hooped. Maybe I'll just wait for that new camera that is supposed to come out this month.

The UFL-1 is not compatible with the Stylus 1010. The Stylus 1010 is an older camera and the TTL technology used in the UFL-1 is not recognized by the 1010. Also, the 1010 has a pre-flash system that cannot be turned off, so it is impossible to properly sync the 1010 with the UFL-1.

The C-5050 also because it is an older camera does not recognize the TTL codes of the UFL-1. You will have to use the UFL-1 in manual mode. Also you need to make sure that the Flash is set to the "Slave" setting and that the Flash Mode is set to "Slow". If you are using the flash on an arm, you can also run into situations where you get the UFL-1 to far away from the camera strobe and it does not see it to be able to fire properly. You may want to consider hard wiring it with a fiber optic cable, so you are assured it fires every time. Lastly, the UFL-1 is meant to be an entry level UW strobe and it's guide number is only 14. The closer you can get to your subjects the better, which is proper technique in all UW photography. You may not be getting close enough or with a C-5050 setup you may want to step up to a more powerful flash?

These UFL-1 was introduced just about two years ago and was designed to be fully operational with our cameras from the generation going forward. It is not compatible with many of the older cameras and on the models that it is, it is not 100% functionality.

[Larry C]

So, with the C5050 set the camera on slave and slow and use the manual settings on the strobe. Adjust your shutter speed to get the background water color you want and adjust your aperture to get the best lighting on your subject. If you're shooting a wide shot, trying to get a blue water picture with a large reef or something, you might turn off the flash and do a manual white balance. (Set white balance to custom and press the OK button at the depth of the picture, I think.) Then adjust the color of your picture in a program like photoshop, or photoshop elements. If you shoot in camera RAW, you can set the color temperature in photoshop, etc. and add some of the red back in that is lost underwater. Look in the tips and techniques forum for lots of help with that. I strongly recommend that you add a fiberoptic cord from your housing to the sensor on the strobe. They're relatively cheap and easy to use, and will make strobe firing much more reliable. If you cover the area in front of the camera flash with black tape or exposed negative film, you'll prevent the flash from reflecting off bubbles and particles causing backscatter.

[under water]

Thanks Marg for posting your reply from Olympus. That will be helpful for others in the same position.
Larry pretty much summed up what your options are if you go with the 5050.

[MMM]

I pointed out to the Olympus guy that their website shows the flash as an accessory for the Stylus 1010 so he was going to follow up with the parent company. I imagine it's an error on the website, which was what pointed me in the wrong direction to start with.

Thank you Larry for the suggestion about the fiberoptic cord. I have no idea what kind or how to install. Maybe I'll just go and buy some complete underwater system from someone so I don't have to dick around. :blinking:

[slowhands]

The big selling feature by Olympus was that this particular strobe is supposed to sync to the camera's internal flash. It doesn't have a lot of switches: only TTY and M on one switch and 1/2 and full on another.

Olympus - UFL-1 (http://www.olympus-europa.com/consumer/198_ufl-1_underwater_flash.htm)

So in short, I don't have either a fiber optic cable or a sync cord (assuming they are not one and the same thing). Maybe I'm missing a needed piece of equipment?

The UFL-1 is an entry level strobe. It's low powered, so only good for close ups. Here is what Olympus says:
"This underwater slave flash requires no cables and enables divers to capture stunning images even in the darkest waters. The UFL-01 is incredibly compact and light weight. It has been designed and specially customized for use with Olympus Digital cameras and Underwater Housings. Waterproof to 40 meters, this underwater flash is one of only a few that allow TTL underwater flash photography in slave mode - ideal for multiple flash applications and single flash macro shots. "

I like the C5050 and I have used it a lot with an external flash. It will still work very well today for taking great pics underwater, witness that there are many people still using it. But you have to get the settings right. These settings are a starting point that works with your UFL-1 strobe.

With your C5050, you have to:
SET the camera in Manual exposure mode so it does not pre-flash; use F4 and 1/100 exposure for starting.
SET the camera flash mode to "int + ext (picture of a flash) and SLOW1
SET the UFL-1 flash to TTL.


Why?

The flash can't handle the rapid pre-flash of the C5050, so don't use pre-flash (the only mode that does not preflash is M).

INT+EXT insures that your internal strobe will fire, but tells the camera there is an external flash.

SLOW1 is first curtain sync, you want this.

Lastly, the UFL-1 needs to be in TTL mode so it will time its own flash to match the camera's flash. The flash does not come with a fiber optic cable and you don't need one, it has a sensor that triggers when your camera flash goes off.

If you still have problems, post some pics of what you get, and the camera and flash settings. Something is not set quite right. If you want to get a better flash, I suggest the INON S2000, it's much better and quite compact also. Still you will have to set the camera right to get good pictures, but the INON will probably be less forgiving. In particular, it can handle preflash, so you can use the P, A, and S modes which allow easier shooting or more creativity.

For more advanced info, definitely read:
Splashdown Divers - Boynton Beach, Florida - Underwater Digital Photography - 5050 Settings - 5060 Settings (http://www.splashdowndivers.com/photo_gallery/underwater_photography/up_settings.htm)

[MMM]

Thanks for that info, Slowhands. I will try it. Port is closed today but I am supposed to dive tomorrow. I can mess around all day today. Meanwhile, the Olympus guy sent me this correction he received from head office re: the Stylus 1010's compatibility with the Olympus flash I am using:

"I stand corrected. I just learned that the Stylus 1010 was a typo on the UFL-1 compatibility chart I was issued and is compatible with the UFL-1. It will recognize the pre-flash sequence in that camera. The reason it may not be synching is that you may have it to far away from the on-camera flash, in which case you would want to use a fiber optic cable to fire it. If the exposure is too dark you are too far away from your subject and are overshooting the flash power."

[Larry C]

You can get something like this 10Bar Sea & Sea F/O Sync Cord - Sync Cords - Strobes & Lighting - Optical Ocean Sales Underwater Photo - 800-359-1295! (http://www.opticaloceansales.com/strobes-lighting/sync-cords/10bar-sea-sea-f/o-sync-cord/prod_23.html) to connect the strobe to the housing, optically. The fitting goes in the little black coupling on the base of the strobe in front of the strobe mount. You can velcro the other end to the camera housing in front of the flash. I can't honestly recommend the velcro. I had one of these and the velcro kept popping off under water, as well as the stickum that held it to the housing coming loose. Better to tape or glue it in place and cover the flash to avoid backscatter.
Olympus and Sea & Sea both sell "L" type fiberoptic cables, but they're 2-3 times as much money and require a fitting on the camera housing.

[Puffer Fish]

As it is a Sea and Sea strobe, any S & S fiber optic cable will work, but I like what Larry suggested.

Using it without a cable only works if it is not very bright out.

I actually like the strobe a lot, if and only if you can use it in the TTL mode. It sensitivity is much better than many of the bigger strobes.

Maually, it is a terrible stobe... you have full power, half power. If you also take the defuser off, that would give you a giant total of 4 setting.

Would not be fun using either of those two camera's to adjust an over exposure, given the limited f stops, and flash sync options.



This was shot, if I remember correctly, at around 3 to 4 feet:

http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/data/500/parrotfish_03.jpg

[MMM]

Just an update to this post...I have been using my 5050 on manual (well, actually My Mode, with a few different manual settings) and am finally getting shots with the kind of colour that I want. (I'm also getting lots that are no good as I learn to use/adjust manual settings...) My eyesight isn't what it once was so am having trouble seeing in the monitor how things are turning out. Looking forward to buying the new son of 5050 when I get back to Canada from Mexico. I haven't done the synch cord thing for that very reason also (can't get one here in Cozumel and too much trouble/cost to ship one here). Here's a shot I took a couple of days ago of a harlequin pipefish. I had the PTMC-01 lens on and used the internal flash. Also a turtle that happened by overhead. Same lens! :D89786

89787

[slowhands]

I have been looking into this problem of poor flash performance with the UFL-1.

You need the fiber cord. That's the best way to get a clean signal to the flash. It's supposed to have good syncing with Olympus cameras, meaning it's fast enough, but it has to get a strong light pulse to trigger. The way to do that is funnel the light to it with a fiber cord.

I can't believe the prices on fiber cords made by Olympus and Sea&Sea. List is $80-120!!! There is a little inexpensive fiber cord made by 10bar that should do the job for your Olympus C5050. They should have it at Optical Oceans, but Jack is on vacation 3/1-3/10.

If you can't wait, there is a similar fiber cord by Intova (PX-35), sold a lot of places (first thumbnail):
Search Results (http://www.cameta.com/index.cfm?fa=display.search&page=1&keywords=intova%20px%2035)

If you later buy the latest Olympus PT-050 Housing for the Olympus XZ-1, this won't exactly fit your camera housing. It's meant for cameras that don't have a connector for fiber, but the PT-050 does have one I think. You can either jam fit a TOS Link audio cable ($5) into the fiber connectors, or spend the bucks for the very nice L cable from Sea&Sea at $65 (second thumbnail below):
Sea & Sea Fiber Optic Sync Cable L-Type SS-50107 B&H Photo Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/473637-REG/Sea_Sea_SS_50107_Fiber_Optic_Sync_Cable.html)

[MMM]

I have been looking into this problem of poor flash performance with the UFL-1.

Well, I fixed that problem earlier this week by flooding it. Now I need a new strobe. :D

[slowhands]

Well, I fixed that problem earlier this week by flooding it. Now I need a new strobe. :D

Oh, my, Calamity Marg. Is it just the battery compartment that flooded? Often you can dry it out and reload. Or the main housing?

[MMM]

Oh, my, Calamity Marg. Is it just the battery compartment that flooded? Often you can dry it out and reload. Or the main housing?

I'm not sure. It is sitting on my kitchen counter right now drying out. It's rusted as I didn't notice it was flooded when I rinsed it after use and just left the batteries in until I changed them for the next dive. I plan to try and clean it up today and see if it works. If not, oh well. I wanted something a bit better anyways.....

[MMM]

After much flossing with Q-tips and WD40, I think it's kaput. RIP.

[PHIL RUDIN]

Hi Marg,

These two strobes would be my choice for replacement.

Inon S-2000 S-TTL Strobe [ino.456212143211] - $469.00 : Reef Photo & Video!, The Underwater Photo Pros

Sea & Sea YS-01 DS-TTL Strobe with LED Target Light [ss.03112] - $429.95 : Reef Photo & Video!, The Underwater Photo Pros

I will be headed to Cozumel Apl. 16-23 for the below listed workshop, would be happy to bring a new strobe along for you. I am close to ReefPhoto and would be able to pick it up if you make arrangements.

I will be teaching another underwater photography workshop with MexicanDiver.com in Cozumel Mexico April 16 to 23, 2011. This is a great oppertunity for Olympus users to meet and learn more about all aspects of underwater photography. You can contact me direct at philrudin@me.com or follow the attached link for more information. Look for the Underwater Digital Fiesta $619.00 pp banner and link for more details.

Mexicandiver Magazine

Phil Rudin began taking photographs underwater while he was in the U.S. Navy in 1968. He is now a freelance writer/travel photographer, Senior Photographer for Dive Chronicles magazine and DC Dive Shows. As past President of the South Florida Underwater Photography Society, Phil has served on the Board of Directors for over eighteen years and enjoys the diverse makeup of the club membership. Phil is retired from the West Palm Beach Florida Police Department where he served as Dive Team Commander for the city. With thirty years experience as a public safety diver and dive team manager Phil has done over five hundred recovery dives during his carrier. Phil has recovered vehicles, aircraft, evidence, bodies and more. Other dive team duties included hull inspections of large commercial vessels, underwater crime scene management, crime scene photography, collection of evidence, training and more. Phil has also traveled extensively throughout the world to pursue his passion for underwater photography. His images have appeared in magazines such as Popular Science, Reflections, Scuba Diving Magazine, Underwater Journal, Skin Diver, Florida Underwater, South Florida Adventures, Waterways, The Sun, Dive Chronicles, Underwater Photography Magazine and others. Phil also lectures on travel destinations, public safety diving and photography around the country. He also teaches at digital seminars in Grand Cayman, Cozumel, St Croix and the US.

[MMM]

Reef Photo was where I purchased the kaput strobe. Thanks very, very much for the offer but I will be returning to Canada at the end of March. Would have loved to have enrolled in your class also. Some other time, OK? I am going to treat myself for my birthday in June and buy myself a big honkin' new set up. :D