new diver and ear problems

[dunkdawg]

So I am going to start diving this summer but I have tubes in my ears and it hurts a lot when they get water in them and if there under pressure but i really want to dive so what can i do are their special earplugs i can use or anything like that.

Thanks for the help

[CamG]

Greetings dunkdawg and welcome to Scuba Board!
Ah ear issues, well the best advice I can give you is GO TO YOUR ENT!
Explain your diving wishes and let him know you are determined to accomplish your goals.
It has worked well for me and made it possible to dive almost with very little ear issues.
I do not have tubes but my ears are in need of vigilant care as a chronic sinus / allergy sufferer.
If you can not clear you can not dive! DO NOT EVER PUSH IT!
I forced it once in OW training and it was not pleasant at the ENT!
It was a week of echos and I was lucky I have seen much worse!

Take very good care of your ears my friend they can be your friend or the end of divng all together!

CamG Keep Diving....Keep Training....Keep Learning!

[shft22]

Agree with CamG, go see your ENT and talk to him, I had terrible issues when I started diving to the point I was about to quit, visited my ENT, and he suggested sinus surgery to open up all the passages. Did this 10 years ago and now I can go down and up with no issues, and it also help my quality of life all around.

[g1138]

+1 for seeing your ENT (Ears Nose Throat doctor)
Preferably one with some scuba knowledge and/or background.

I'll jump the gun and also say that you probably don't know how to equalize properly and safely when you're diving down to the bottom of the pool.
Your scuba instructor usually gives you a very brief, and I really mean BRIEF, intro into how to clear you ears. Usually it's a simple method, the Valsalva Maneuver. They tell you how to do it and from there on out it's all on you to perfect your technique.

You can also look into other methods such as:
- yawning
- wiggling your jaw side to side
- Frenzel Method (perfect for freediving without scuba)
- Voluntary Tubal Opening (VTO) or Beance Tubaire Volontaire (BTO)
as well as a few others.
If you do these methods on land you should hear a small to big "pop" in your ears.

I'll set some links to give you an intro:
Freediving Explained - How to Freedive Manual: Equalization Techniques (http://freedivingexplained.blogspot.com/2008/03/basics-of-freediving-equalization.html)
How to Equalize Your Ears for Scuba Diving - Ear Equalization Basics and Tips for Dealing With Equalization Problems (http://scuba.about.com/od/divemedicinesafety/p/Ear-Equalization-Why-And-How-Do-Divers-Equalize-The-Pressure-In-Their-Ears.htm)


As for getting water in your ears, they make special ear plugs for divers called Doc Pro Plugs.
Regular ear plugs will plug your ears and prevent you from equalizing properly, you can seriously damage your ears. In fact, regular ear plugs will probably hurt more when you dive down, than if you didn't wear them at all.
Doc Pro Plugs however are different, they have a small vent in them that allows you more time to equalize as you're diving. I've never used them, but I have heard great things from my friends who do.
Doc's Proplugs: The Doctor's Choice for Ear Protection (http://www.proplugs.com/scubadiving.shtml)

So as you can see there are ways around this, but first see your ENT. There could be other problems we don't know about. Your ENT will tell you if your tubes will allow you to dive or not.

[PatW]

As the above people have stated, being able to equalize is absolutely critical for diving.

As you descend, if you feel pain in your ears, equalize. If you can not equalize, rise up a bit and equalize again. Keep at it until it clears.

The odd thing was, I had a heck of a time equalizing in OW and in AOW. I kept practicing equalizing. I also learned to modify my approach. I found that moving my head back on my neck as if I was trying to look above and behind me, helped a bunch (whilst holding my nose and blowing). If I tilted my head slightly one way or the other, it gets one ear or the other. Since I got the knack of it, it took less and less in the way of gyrations to get my ears to equalize. I don't know why that was the case. But I am glad it worked out that way.

I would suggest you just get into a pool and practice equalizing. If that does not work, you might go to an ENT for a consultation. Seeing an ENT would probably not be a bad idea in any event. If you have special ear problems, it is probably a good idea to see if it is even a good idea to dive or what you need to do in order to do it without damaging your ears. See if you can find an ENT who is familiar with SCUBA diving and the problems it poses.

Now, some people have problems getting water in their ears. Water in the ears can cause ear infections. My wife, a diver, used to get infections regularly if she does frequently for 1 week (like one does on a dive vacation). She found a fix. There is a little product that is like a miniture hair dryer that blows warm dry air into your ear and drys it out. It used to be called "Sahara Dry Ear". It works very well.

[adutto]

Is this cases professional help is the best.

[Scuba.com]

Yes, CamG is spot on correct. As an instructor I'd not allow you into the class without a very detailed approval from a physician who is familliar with scuba. And to be honest, even then I'd be very hesitant to allow it, as with my little bit of experience with tubes in ones ears, the distinct possibility of losing one during the dive and having issues would always be present.

If you are having trouble locating a physician or specialist familliar with all this, contact DAN (Divers Alert Network).

[a22shady]

Start here watch this very informative video from DR. Edmond Kay. It tells you about the ear and how to properlly equalize so you don't get that pain. Having tubes I don't know how this may affect.

One thing to remember is to equalize early and often. Biggest think I was told from Dr. Kay was to actually equalize just before your head goes under the water doing this made me be able sink like a rock with aboslutly no issues. And as the video tells you most people don't actually push with enough force to properlly equalize out fear "Ear Fear" you don't do it till your face turns red but you have to give it enough to wrok. Hopefully the Video helps and good luck.


Doc's Diving Medicine Home Page (http://faculty.washington.edu/ekay/index.html)

[silvernotch]

Early and often! I have difficulties so I have to clear my ears with every breath on descent. Normal valsalva method doesn't work for me so I use the modified version where you try to make the "K" sound with your tongue and forces air into your tubes. works like a charm. I also use the doc pro plugs but be careful with them though. One came loose during a dive and the cord got wrapped around the tank valve.

[Jim Lapenta]

He has tubes in his ears. Water will go right in. My late wife had to wear earplugs just to take a shower as any water getting into her ear caused severe vertigo and at times resulted in infections. Tubes are put in to allow the ear to drain. Found this with a 2 minute search:

Best Answer - Chosen by Voters
"This is controversial. Basically, there are two perspectives. On one side, some physicians argue that the tubes are placed in the ear to prevent ear infections by draining fluid. So if water should get into the middle ear, it will probably drain out the tubes.

On the other side are physicians who don't want patients with ear tubes to swim at all. They say that if you mix water and wax in the ear canal, you could get certain bacterial infections. These infections could jeopardize the tubes and even make it necessary to remove them.

A reasonable compromise is this: If patients with ear tubes just want to splash around in the water without submerging their heads, it's OK. If they do want to put their heads under water, then it's best to first fit them with individually molded earplugs. In any case, patients with ear tubes should not dive."

That's from the Mayo Clinic's website on swimming w/ kids

It seems that more research has been done on surface swimming than deep water swimming with tubes. I would ask your dive coach/instructor, maybe they have encountered this before and can give you some more advice.

Also you may be able to get a call with your doctor (no OV necessary!) to ask his opinion. As an adult your precautions may be slightly different than those of a child with tubes.

Studies do show an increase in infection in chlidren who swam 2+ feet underwater so you most def want to get a professional opinion!!!

Good luck and enjoy you cruise!
Source(s):
Mayo Clinic website
Dr. Greene, Yahoo! Pediatric Expert

Doc's plugs do not keep all the water out. They are vented to allow water in below 20ft. Pressure could also force the tubes farther in than intended resulting in even more damage. Do not try to dive with tubes in your ears.

I would never allow a student into my class with tubes in their ears regardless of what their family doctor or any doctor said. The risks are too great.

[dunkdawg]

see the problem isn't equalizing it even happens when i swim normally in a pool what happened was when I had surgery on my ears they perferated my ear drum and ever since it hurts as soon as i get water in it and i get really sick.

[CamG]

Greetings dunkdawg and it would be very wise to heed Jim Lapenta's advice.
You need to seek medical professionals to help with this and it could be not in the diving favor.
I have always considered tubes to be a deal breaker when it comes to diving as Jim has already shared.
I do know one person who had tubes and had them removed who dives.
It is not easy for them but they have learned to deal with the equalization difficulties.

This is very difficult to say but it might not be possible for you to dive.
Please seek out professional medical advice, ENT for the options open to you.
If you get water in your inner ear YOU ARE IN DANGER OF CAUSING SOME REAL DAMAGE!
Ears are a divers cross to bear so to speak, you have to be very careful!
Diving is not like swimming but with increased pressure ATA it compounds pressure on your ears and can be excruciating in some cases.
Good luck and let us know what you find out.

CamG Keep Diving....Keep Training....Keep Learning!

[g1138]

see the problem isn't equalizing it even happens when i swim normally in a pool what happened was when I had surgery on my ears they perferated my ear drum and ever since it hurts as soon as i get water in it and i get really sick.

In case you missed it. Check out Doc Pro Plugs and ask your doctor about them.
They're expensive, but they're vented which is the only type of ear plugs you should ever wear to dive. I don't know whether they prevent water from entering the ear, but they may allow less if any.
Let your doctor know you want to dive and if those will allow you to dive safely.

[Scuba Ken]

Equalizing is not the problem the tubes will allow the air to escape, but they also allow the water to enter in.

I hate to say this but speaking from someone who had tubes when I was younger you will not be able to dive. The tubes will allow water to enter past the eardrum causing the pain and vertigo, especially if the the water is cold. It can also wash bacteria from the water and outer ear in to the inner area causing infections.

That said it may not be out of the question in the future. I had the tubes removed from ears and the eardrums healed allowing me to dive.

Speak to your ENT doctor about your options and don't give up hope. Diving with tubes is like diving with a ruptured eardrum. It will not turn out good.

[n733lk]

A22Shady, thanks for the video link!

[n733lk]

I use the modified version where you try to make the "K" sound with your tongue and forces air into your tubes. works like a charm. I also use the doc pro plugs

1. How do you make a "k" sound with your tongue? I'm looking for alternative methods.

2. Have the Proplugs helped?

Thanks!

[a22shady]

There are some way's around this maybe not what you would but there are a set of ear covers that go on the googles called the Pro ear Mask. I have never used but have heard they work, typically its too help people with equalization but should also help you but these still have the risk of getting water in and if you 30 or so feet down and it's gets painfull do you want to risk that. It's a less expensive attempt try it in a pool a few times and then gradually work your way down in depth. If you have your own gear go to pool and stay under and move all around try to stay for atleast 30 min mimmicking a dive turning your head, lifting inflator etc..

IST Pro Ear 2000 Two Window Mask (http://www.leisurepro.com/Prod/CategoryID_958/Context_954/Sort_Stock/DescSort_0/ISTMPE.html?Hit=1)

There is another extreme way if you want to dive beyond all go though a class and get a helmet mask. They are expensive and do require some special training to use them but this would eliminate the water in your ears. Unless you had a catastrophic failure. But these masks are typically hooked up to a Surface Supplied air system but I have seen them carry spare tanks with them. I am not sure how these actually work as I have never used them If they can be hooked to a traditional scuba tank and you really wanted to dive this could work for you. Maybe someone with some experince with these masks couls post some more info.

Kirby Morgan Dive Systems | Helmets | SuperLite 17B (http://www.kirbymorgan.com/Helmets/17B.html)

[Subcooled]

Sounds like someone wants a dry hood...

Simple. Just buy it.

[Subcooled]

And I meant a hood that really keeps your head completely dry. They do exist. They may cost a bit more. They may need a bit of fitting to make a good seal around the face. And require a small hat inside, so that the hood won't seal the outer ear and cause pressure damage. Used with a drysuit.

Some suits with dryhoods even come in fashionable colors: Sukelluspuku Loitokari (http://www.sukelluspukuloitokari.fi/)

[Subcooled]

A dry hood keeps the water out. The pressure will, of course, be equal to the ambient pressure. Does pressure alone hurt? I would consult a doctor.

[k374]

As Jim has pointed above, Doc's Pro Plugs are vented and do allow water in, albeit at a much slower rate than without the plugs since the orifice is very tiny...this of course allows a little delay allowing the ears to "catch up" a little on equalization.

[Subcooled]

If you don't want the Loitokari rubber drysuit with a dryhood (or a helmet of your choice) then maybe an O.S. Systems drysuit with a dryhood would do? OS SYSTEMS - The Drysuit People (http://www.ossystems.com/accessories/index.html)