backplate in carbon fiber?

[marmagi]

Hello,

does anyone know from where I can buy a back plate made in carbon fiber?

Thanks

Mario

[Tortuga68]

Can I ask why you want a CF BP?

I think I've seen one used with an Inspiration rebreather

EDIT: Here it is...

http://www.rebreatherworld.com/photopost/data/523/Gabriele_-_Ultralight_4.jpg

[Blackwood]

You may be best off making one yourself. Raw prepreg and a vacuum bag will likely cost less than a commercial offering (if one exists).


Can I ask why you want a CF BP?

What he said. Seems like a rather odd material selection. Low density, prone to cracking (which can't be fixed), expensive, etc..

[kanonfodr]

Why? If it's a weight issue, Aluminum is just as light but has much more structural rigidity. If it's a style thing, then you can get plenty of colors in backplates as well (or make your own).

Peace,
Greg

[Tortuga68]

I dunno those CF-wrapped tanks have really taken off :popcorn:

[marmagi]

yes, I have even seen carbon fiber bibo tanks ;)

yes the weight is the issue specially when I travel far away on plane

carbon fiber weights much less than Aluminum ! and no way you can crack it ! if its well done

anyways if someone knows of anyone selling them please let me know

thanks

[kanonfodr]

I dunno those CF-wrapped tanks have really taken off :popcorn:

Where? Rebreathers, Paintball, and some commercial diving?? :confused:

Peace,
Greg

[Blackwood]

and no way you can crack it ! if its well done

nonsense.

When the tank is bolted on and you're walking to the water, the plate is in bending (I see Tobin looking at the thread, so if I'm wrong about that he can correct me :D). The compressive part of that load is taken by the resin. The bolts themselves are bearing against a hole which was drilled into the backplate (a process that could cause the fibers themselves to crack).

Can you design an appropriate backplate? Sure. Will one you buy be appropriately designed? And if so, was it built to spec? Who knows?



yes the weight is the issue specially when I travel far away on plane

carbon fiber weights much less than Aluminum !

Graphite Fiber Reinforced Plastic ("carbon fiber") in practice may give you about a 20-50% weight advantage over aluminum. But considering the low mass off Aluminum plates (mine is about .65kg, and I haven't used it in over 3 years), you aren't gaining much.

In any case, perhaps this question is better asked outside the DIR forum. Generally speaking, DIR equipment selection is based on how it performs underwater, not how convenient it is above water.

[Tortuga68]

(Greg: it was a joke - or a pun, depending on how you look at it)

[calicant]

I was tempted to make a gold backplate as it might be a good hiding place and method of cross border transportation. Hope the TSA isn't monitoring this forum or I'll get the quadruple S treatment next time I go on vacation.;)

[Tortuga68]

Didn't Zeagle make a titanium backplate that retailed for $700 or something?

[Blackwood]

Didn't Zeagle make a titanium backplate that retailed for $700 or something?

Yes, and it likely weighs more than their aluminum plates (unless they re-tooled for a thinner Ti plate). maybe Scott Zeagle can answer that, I can't find any specs for it online.

[Tortuga68]

Well their alloy plates are only 1.7# and titanium is 60% heavier than aluminium all things being equal, so...

CF would be what, 40% of the weight of alloy, for the same thickness? That's a big saving... nearly a whole pound. As long as it didn't need to be any thicker of course :popcorn:

Maybe the OP should be looking for a magnesium BP

Or perhaps a set of Apeks Flight regs

[cool_hardware52]

Hello,

does anyone know from where I can buy a back plate made in carbon fiber?

Thanks

Mario

Kinda pointless IMO.

Backplates are not highly stressed. Stainless Steel plates are not made from SS because they need to be enormously strong. SS is used because it is dense and corrosion resistant, useful if the diver needs ballast.

Light weight plate, Kydex or Aluminum are used when the diver needs less ballast.

Current Kydex plates are just slightly negative.

You could always buy an al plate and stick on a Carbon Fiber decal. ;)

Tobin

[fire_diver]

yes, I have even seen carbon fiber bibo tanks ;)

yes the weight is the issue specially when I travel far away on plane

carbon fiber weights much less than Aluminum ! and no way you can crack it ! if its well done

anyways if someone knows of anyone selling them please let me know

thanks

Have you looked at these?:

OxyCheq Ultra Lite Back Plate discounts on sale OxyCheq (http://www.scubatoys.com/store/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=OxyCheqUltraLiteBackPlate)

No reason a BP has to be hard, it's just a connecting point for a tank and bc to your body.

[Blackwood]

CF would be what, 40% of the weight of alloy, for the same thickness?

Various fibers (I'm most familiar with M55J (http://www.toraycfa.com/pdfs/M55JDataSheet.pdf) and T300 (http://www.toraycfa.com/pdfs/T300DataSheet.pdf) myself) and resin systems are more or less similar in density, but the weight of the laminate depends on fiber volume (as well as thickness).

[fjpatrum]

yes, I have even seen carbon fiber bibo tanks ;)

yes the weight is the issue specially when I travel far away on plane

carbon fiber weights much less than Aluminum ! and no way you can crack it ! if its well done

anyways if someone knows of anyone selling them please let me know

thanks

I hate to disappoint you, but a 100% carbon fiber plate won't have the rigidity you're going to want from a hard plate. If you make a lay-up with some other material to add rigidity, you might be okay.

It's also remarkably easy to crack carbon fiber if it flexes. I'm not sure what makes you think otherwise. I've seen CF kayaks completely destroyed from a collision with a rock at 6 mph. I have a CF paddle I built (yes I built it "properly") that also broke. It would work for a while, if you had say, 6-10 layers of 6 oz cloth laid up. I've been thinking of experimenting with a fiberglass or CF/plywood plate just for fun, but I have so many other projects I probably won't get around to it.

For what it's worth, a PVC plate is significantly easier to make than a CF one would be and works quite well. For the weight savings, you're not gaining much over AL when you consider a CF plate will probably cost a lot more and would certainly cost you more (in time alone) if you were to make one.

[BrianG701]

If someone in the Charlotte, NC area has a BP I can make a mold off of (needs to be polish-able) I am willing to make the mold and give it a go. I would be more than happy to make a few so long as people are willing to help pay for materials and infusion supplies.
As for the cracking while flexing issue that could be corrected by simply using a hybrid cloth of Carbon and Kevlar with a core material possibly, also if you are worried about the strap slots they can be reinforced by putting some small pieces of alloy plate into the layup.

[marmagi]

BrianG701

if you ever make one let me know I will for sure buy one from you ;)

thanks

mario

[NetDoc]

I have two Kydex plates from Tobin... they are wonderfully engineered and are the best choice for me to reduce weight both for diving or for traveling.

[vladimir]

Yes, and it likely weighs more than their aluminum plates (unless they re-tooled for a thinner Ti plate). maybe Scott Zeagle can answer that, I can't find any specs for it online.Zeagle makes a black anodized aluminum plate (http://www.zeagle.com/showproduct/1048/Metal-Backplates/) that will probably serve if it's a question of style for the OP. It looks pretty cool to me, with the "Z" logo cut into it.

[Blackwood]

Zeagle makes a black anodized aluminum plate (http://www.zeagle.com/showproduct/1048/Metal-Backplates/) that will probably serve if it's a question of style for the OP. It looks pretty cool to me, with the "Z" logo cut into it.

My Salvo aluminum plate is also black... where the anodic coating hasn't been scratched off :P

[Mayor]

Other then the cool factor I see little point on a balanced rig. Plus the cost of the mold might be hard to cover.

In a past life I had watercrafts custom made from Carbon fiber.... :D

[marmagi]

Brian how much could it cost a plate in CF? how much is the Kydex plate? weigth ?

[BrianG701]

A rough estimate for a pure and simple carbon plate would be around $150 US, but that is rough. as for the cost of the mold, right now I'm making molds for body panels on my LOCOST so I have all the materials on hand for mold building and I would not think that it would take too long to pull a mold off the plate, it would probably take longer to let the mold cure properly.

[marmagi]

Brian it will be great ;)

[Farback]

I hate to disappoint you, but a 100% carbon fiber plate won't have the rigidity you're going to want from a hard plate. If you make a lay-up with some other material to add rigidity, you might be okay.

It's also remarkably easy to crack carbon fiber if it flexes. I'm not sure what makes you think otherwise. I've seen CF kayaks completely destroyed from a collision with a rock at 6 mph. I have a CF paddle I built (yes I built it "properly") that also broke. It would work for a while, if you had say, 6-10 layers of 6 oz cloth laid up. I've been thinking of experimenting with a fiberglass or CF/plywood plate just for fun, but I have so many other projects I probably won't get around to it.

For what it's worth, a PVC plate is significantly easier to make than a CF one would be and works quite well. For the weight savings, you're not gaining much over AL when you consider a CF plate will probably cost a lot more and would certainly cost you more (in time alone) if you were to make one.

Please excuse the off topic question. Are you by any chance a kayak builder?

[coralcruiser]

If you're only planning on using it when traveling, I would just spend the $44 and get the oxycheq ultralite plate.... weight is under 10 oz. :D

[mrfixitchapman]

I built a harness that traps the wing between my back and the tank. No plate. The tank is strong enough that I'll never bend it and the harness weighs less than five ounces. I use it for travel to warm places when I use the large kerosene burner for transportation.

DC

Oh - I have laid up a CF plate. All that work to save a couple ounces compared to the alloy plate wasn't worth the effort. Plus, my carry-on packed easier with just the harness and 18lb wing. YMMV

[coralcruiser]

I built a harness that traps the wing between my back and the tank. No plate. The tank is strong enough that I'll never bend it and the harness weighs less than five ounces. I use it for travel to warm places when I use the large kerosene burner for transportation.



Would love to see some pics of your setup. Sounds very interesting!

[scubafanatic]

I have two Kydex plates from Tobin... they are wonderfully engineered and are the best choice for me to reduce weight both for diving or for traveling.

I'm using 3 of Tobins 'medium' KYDEX ones...a little over $ 200 each, if you're wondering.....

[mrfixitchapman]

Would love to see some pics of your setup. Sounds very interesting!

It's just a 2" webbing version of the old Hawaiian backpack. Mine has two tank straps that go through the same holes in the wing that they fit through when the backplate is installed. I thread the tank straps through the holes in the wing and strap the tank down. Couple puffs of air in the wing to make it take shape, slide into the shoulder straps , buckle the waist band and off you go. I made a few extras to show around and all the equipment fabricators told me that it was nice, but there isn't any money in minimalist gear.

DC

[Tortuga68]

As for the cracking while flexing issue that could be corrected by simply using a hybrid cloth of Carbon and Kevlar with a core material possibly, also if you are worried about the strap slots they can be reinforced by putting some small pieces of alloy plate into the layup.

Are you able to estimate the weight of the finished product?

[BrianG701]

Unfortunately I have not had to much chance to play with hybrid cloths, but if you take a 5.6oz per square yard fabric at say 6 layers (about 1 yard) + say 3oz. of alloy + about 4oz. resin (extra added so that air bubbles don't come in from the feed line) and I would say that you could IN THEORY get the weight to about 11oz. give or take an oz. or two.

The main thing I need to give it a go is a BP to make the mold off of and use as a template for the slots and holes, and oh yeah a bit of time too
:beerchug:

[Tortuga68]

I can see that it might be interesting/fun to make one, and 'cool' to own one, but for <1 pound weight saving (compared to a light alloy plate), I'm not really seeing the benefit for travel... even on short island-hopping flights - eg Singapore to Tioman - where the nominal baggage limit is still 10kg/22# it seems like there'd be better weighs to save weight, with less risk

[nelsondejesus]

Instead of scouting around for a carbon fiber backplate, I think the kydex backplate manufactured by Deep Sea Supply would meet your requirements. Its what me and my wife are using, especially when travelling.

[thomjinx]

I am another very happy user of Deep Sea Supply's Kydex backplate. With a 17 lb wing and a hog harness it is very light and streamlined. Because the whole rig is slightly negative, it also requires less lead than most BCDs.

And as far as the appearance (of CF) goes, who even sees it when you have it on?

-Thomjinx

[nelsondejesus]

Was in Hongkong dive expo, saw this carbon fiber backplate being sold by one of the exhibitors, namely "dive formula" and decided to buy one. Still have to set it up though and will check how durable it is once i try it out.

[nelsondejesus]

correction, it was "scuba formula" not "dive formula"

[eelnoraa]

Graphite Fiber Reinforced Plastic ("carbon fiber") in practice may give you about a 20-50% weight advantage over aluminum. But considering the low mass off Aluminum plates (mine is about .65kg, and I haven't used it in over 3 years), you aren't gaining much.



This is right on. Volumn for volumn, carbon filter is less than 50% of the weight of AL. HOWEVER, this is pointless. To make CF the same strength as AL, you need to use more CF (volumn wise), the net weight reduction is like 30% if not less. And this is for tube shape structure (such as camera tripod) which is in favor of CF. For flat plate structure, I even double CF will offer any strength to weight ratio.

[Goferrin99]

Guys am I missing something here???

If you are aiming for a light weight travel BP with the same design:

Standard AL BP + 3" holesaw = problem solved...

Not as cool as CF but sure to get some looks and discussion on the boat...

You could even add some slots to tie the now required weights (robbing from Peter to pay Paul...)