Tech with Freediving Fins

All,

One of our active SB members, DanV, a tech diver, recently posted that he wears open-heel, freediving fins with his drysuit. (See post #3 here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/dir/368978-question-dir-compliant-fins.html.)

Reading this had me recalling my first (and only) tech dives in a warm ocean environment, which took place with Divetech on Grand Cayman in 2000. I had arranged ahead of time to dive with a DiveTech tech instructor as my guide for these dives which took place on a north Cayman wall. After a shakedown dive (to get comfortable diving a 3/2 mil wetsuit, manifolded Al 80's, and a single Al 40 for deco--gear much different than the gear I wore for Great Lakes tech dives in those days), the next day we did a lite tech dive in earnest: The plan was for a 170 fsw dive for a 25 min bottom time, using air as a bottom gas and EAN80 for the single deco gas.

DanV's post reminded me that the instructor wore freediving fins, which I had not been used to seeing. I can't recall whether they were full-foot fins or open-heel. But I do recall how effortlessly he finned, using a slow, wide, flutter kick. I remember feeling like I, wearing my Jets, was in second gear, while Ian seemed to be in fourth! (Oh, I also recall how spectacular the corals were where we dove! Absolutely amazing!!)

Okay, my questions are these: I would like to know if you use freediving fins when you're doing non-hard-overhead tech dives? Full-foot or open-heel? With wetsuit or drysuit? Lite tech or more serious tech? What kind of scuba rig, and carrying how many deco cylinders of what size? Any problems and/or any special considerations? Et cetera. Finally, do you favor a particular size fin (some of them are really long!), or brand, or material? Any stories?

Thanks,

Ronald

P.S. Oh, and I also recall spying tri-mix divers far below us when we were at depth, and heaving a heavy *sigh*.

I use freediving fins for most all diving (scuba and freediving). I dive past recreational depths with a large steel tank and pony (but not doubles like the REAL divers).

I used to wear SP XL jetfins, but they have not been used in 12- yrs or so. For me there is no comparison in the ability to move through the water efficiently.

I remember when I learned this on one particular dive. I was diving with a buddy who was smaller than me, but in very good condition. We were swimming at a moderate pace and he was just kicking my butt. My breathing rate was quite elevated, while he just kept breathing slow and steady. After 5-8 minutes of it, I felt like I was jogging. It was a dramatic demonstration for me. The fins are deceptive, because if you watch a scuba diver swim with these fins, they don't really look like they are moving fast with the slow steady kicks, but when you try to keep pace with them at anything other than the most modest swim speed, the difference is pretty evident.

Since then, I just never went back. Fullfoot freedive fins are considerably safer in that it is about impossible to get a line caught on the fin, it just glides off the heel. Definitely smoother than any heel strap, spring clip or anything else.

The huge fins are an utter pain in the ass on a small crowded boat, so much so that I have a pair of freedive fins which I cut 8-9 inches off the blades. These shortened blades are a little less efficient, but much better on the boat. I use them occasionally.

For getting out of the water and up a ladder in rough seas, the SP jet fin is better. It is easier to take off (especially with heavy gloves) and you can put your hand through the heel strap as you climb. It is definitely harder to get the full foot fins off in the water and then you have to hand or throw them up before you climb out. Another PIA, but worth the trouble for the efficiency in the water.

One difference in the fins is the footpocket. The SP jet fins are not comfortable. After a few days of diving, my toes would always be tore up. However there are a few types of freedive fins that are so comfortable, I can wear them for 3 days straight barefoot. If they get irritated, then I can wear a 3mm sock and this improves comfort even more.

As for which type of freedive fin is best: Carbon Fiber are probably the best, then fiberglass/composite and then last comes plastic fins. When I freedive, I much prefer the fiberglass fins (carbon is like $4-500, so too expensive) over cheaper plastic fins, especially if diving past 60 feet. For freediving you want the absolute most efficient fins possible.

However for scuba, you are wearing so much crap, so much drag, that the difference between an inexpensive freedive fin and an expensive one is hard for me to detect.

Cressi-sub (2000 and 3000) models are extremely popular, inexpensive, comfortable and rugged. Recently, these fins came out and they are priced incredibly inexpensive. I've been using them for a while and like them better than the cressi-sub fins:

MAKO Spearguns - MAKO Competition Freediver Fins

Outstanding reply, dumpsterDiver. Thanks.

rx7diver:

All,

One of our active SB members, DanV, a tech diver, recently posted that he wears open-heel, freediving fins with his drysuit. (See post #3 here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/dir/368978-question-dir-compliant-fins.html.)

Reading this had me recalling my first (and only) tech dives in a warm ocean environment, which took place with Divetech on Grand Cayman in 2000. I had arranged ahead of time to dive with a DiveTech tech instructor as my guide for these dives which took place on a north Cayman wall. After a shakedown dive (to get comfortable diving a 3/2 mil wetsuit, manifolded Al 80's, and a single Al 40 for deco--gear much different than the gear I wore for Great Lakes tech dives in those days), the next day we did a lite tech dive in earnest: The plan was for a 170 fsw dive for a 25 min bottom time, using air as a bottom gas and EAN80 for the single deco gas.

DanV's post reminded me that the instructor wore freediving fins, which I had not been used to seeing. I can't recall whether they were full-foot fins or open-heel. But I do recall how effortlessly he finned, using a slow, wide, flutter kick. I remember feeling like I, wearing my Jets, was in second gear, while Ian seemed to be in fourth! (Oh, I also recall how spectacular the corals were where we dove! Absolutely amazing!!)

Okay, my questions are these: I would like to know if you use freediving fins when you're doing non-hard-overhead tech dives? Full-foot or open-heel? With wetsuit or drysuit? Lite tech or more serious tech? What kind of scuba rig, and carrying how many deco cylinders of what size? Any problems and/or any special considerations? Et cetera. Finally, do you favor a particular size fin (some of them are really long!), or brand, or material? Any stories?

Thanks,

Ronald

P.S. Oh, and I also recall spying tri-mix divers far below us when we were at depth, and heaving a heavy *sigh*.

Click to expand...

Hi Ron,
Here is a shot of my fins and me
http://www.sfdj.com/presentation/photos/content/images/large/gue/gue-6191.jpg
The DiveR freedive fins make me fast enough to keep pace with scooter divers or turtles or manatees, or whatever I want to film. This is particulalry remarkable, because I am wearing a Drysuit, which means you have far more drag slowing you down than when wetsuit diving, and it is why most dry suit divers are so obnoxiously slow when you are with a group needing to move upcurrent. As dumpster diver indicated, full foot freediving fins are normally the best way to go, but with a dry suit, open heel is mandated. Fortunately, riffe makes an open heel foot pocket that will work with the DiveR blades ( which come in soft, medium and hard). As a competitive cyclist, my legs don't "feel" any workload from the "hard stiffness" blades I am using. For a diver without much time per week on a bike, the soft or medium would be much smarter....this would also related to going with a Cressi 3000 LD , which is their long duration fin, that is made for being less fatigueing on very long freedive days--or for scuba divers without huge conditioning. In fact, these LD fins are so effortless, most scuba divers who try them are shocked at how effortless propelling themselves becomes.

I use my DiverR fins in all ocean environments EXCEPT serious shipwreck penetrations where there is a very low overhead. It is very easy to perform zero silting frog kicks with the DiveR freedive fins, as well as helicopter turns and even reverse klcks...but if the bottom is silty, and the overhead is only a couple of feet above you, the Diver R fins become too long to easily avoid silting the ceiling.

For me, big penetrations are not the big deal I dive for.. I want the big marine life, and huge clouds of marine life. and this is rarely about big penetrations.

I find some of the most spectacular explosions of marine life occur where huge currents intersect with large structures. This is where having all your gear extremely slick is crucial, as no matter how fast you are, if the current is over 4 mph, you HAVE to be belly to the bottom, and you don't want to be snagging.
With my diveR fins, I can hit sick speeds when I need to, whereas if I used the tired old technology of Jetfins, I would be going no where fast.....Jetfins for me, are for the tight overhead, where silt concerns and precision are everything.Speed and efficiency with a flutter kick would no longer be a concern.... I have a pair, and when the mission calls for this, I switch

The advantages with freediving fins are probably even greater for doubles diving, as the propulsion problem is so much worse for a doubles diver ( equals major slowpoke). While a doubles diver at 280 feet does not want to exert and try for speed, the freedive fins would mean much less exertion, without such pathetic inability to go from point a to point b. At this depth, the smart propulsion is the scooter, this really taking the very deep use of freedive fins into a less meaningful discussion.... I am thinking doubles and dives to 130 feet or shallower, as an area most divers could really enjoy a big difference. Obviously there is a big benefit for single tank divers at all of their depths.

I have "Many" extra sets of good freediving fins..If any of you guys come diving in Palm Beach and want to try a set, I'll dive with you and you can try a pair of mine...

On the first boat dive of the first day of the recent GUE fun dives in Florida I buddied up with Dan Volker. When he put on his 'Blue Monsters' I knew I was in trouble.

Dan: Single tank, drysuit, huge camera, DiveR fins, avid cyclist
Me: AL80 doubles, wetsuit, bare bone Hogarthian, SP Jets, occasional runner

To make a long story short. Halfway through the first dive I joined another team realizing that my gas consumption was not going to get me through the day while trying to keep up with Dan.

The deceptive thing about these fins is that the slow motion (and somewhat delayed acceleration) leads you to believe that the other diver is not intending to go anywhere fast. Before you know it, you are waaay behind and have to catch up.

PS: Thanks Dan for the great time in FL.

Fins are a tool. Take the right tool for the dive. What do you care if someone calls you farm animal stupid? It just shows how closed-minded they are.

If I was in crystal-clear warm water, and didn't need to back up or maneuver in close quarters, I'd take my C4's in a heartbeat.


All the best, James


PS - I'll admit my best choice for fins is the Cuda. That and a pair of short stubby plastic fins, and it's the best of all worlds while warm water traveling - speed, endurance, and manuverability!

The huge fins are an utter pain in the ass on a small crowded boat, so much so that I have a pair of freedive fins which I cut 8-9 inches off the blades

Click to expand...

This was the big drawback I saw on the FL boats with Dan. If all of us had been in those long fins, nobody would ever have made it to the swim step!

Dan, I'm sorry I didn't say anything to you about trying some of the fins. I guess we'll have to come back!

danvolker:

Hi Ron,
Here is a shot of my fins and me
http://www.sfdj.com/presentation/photos/content/images/large/gue/gue-6191.jpgmine...

Click to expand...

OMFG!!!! Mr. DIR is diving with suicide clip???????? I have seen a number of bad things happen with them in even open water dives. That is ridiculous. One of the DIR rules I personally won't violate...even on my deep solo air dives.

Shoul I also mention the sillyness of wearing a dry suit and no hood!

Dotcha know a good thin freedive suit is much cheaper, less complicated, has less potential failure mode and most importantly will make the diver faster and more efficient???

Editlus you can ditch the crappy heel strap footpockets and use a fullfoot fin with a wet suit.

dumpsterDiver:

OMFG!!!! Mr. DIR is diving with suicide clip???????? I have seen a number of bad things happen with them in even open water dives. That is ridiculous. One of the DIR rules I personally won't violate...even on my deep solo air dives.

Shoul I also mention the sillyness of wearing a dry suit and no hood!

Dotcha know a good thin freedive suit is much cheaper, less complicated, has less potential failure mode and most importantly will make the diver faster and more efficient???

Editlus you can ditch the crappy heel strap footpockets and use a fullfoot fin with a wet suit.

Click to expand...

it's not as warm.

dumpsterDiver:

OMFG!!!! Mr. DIR is diving with suicide clip???????? I have seen a number of bad things happen with them in even open water dives. That is ridiculous. One of the DIR rules I personally won't violate...even on my deep solo air dives.

Shoul I also mention the sillyness of wearing a dry suit and no hood!

Dotcha know a good thin freedive suit is much cheaper, less complicated, has less potential failure mode and most importantly will make the diver faster and more efficient???

Editlus you can ditch the crappy heel strap footpockets and use a fullfoot fin with a wet suit.

Click to expand...

DD,
Glad I could entertain you

Just so you know, the clip is attached with an easy to break line....
I do have one of those ultra slick freedive suits, which I can go almost twice as fast wearing....but unfortunately, the water has been too cold for me to enjoy that trade off over the last few months ...

If you have to use a drysuit, the crappy heel strap issue is unfortunate, but there is no good way around it. As heel strap systems go, at least the riffe pocket is not that bad.