noise underwater by divers

[rameus]

hi at all...

tried to get over my traumatic experiences i had a few times with shaker-maniacs underwater in a funny way. posted my article here (http://rameus.com/diving/underwater-noise-divers-shakers). would be interesting to hear what you do think about use of shakers and tank bangers to get the attention of people underwater.

of course there are people who have to use things like that (instructors or guides guiding in tough conditions or with low visibility) but apart from that there's not much of a sense to me when "normal" divers use such things excessively...

i'm very curious about the replies :-)

Thomas

[tstormdiver]

I personally only use a rattle to communicate with my students when conducting OW classes. The rest of the time it is hand, body or light signals. I was on a liveaboard trip a few years ago in which a gent (used loosely) had a little pointer stick. It was fine for that application, until he learned that he could use it to easily tap his tank. For the rest of the trip all's I heard was "tap, tap, tap..... tap, tap, tap....." as he would use it to get his buddy's attention, constantly, to the point it started to grate on my nerves.

[herbdb]

I thought the Quacker used by our Dive Master on Roatan worked well and was not annoying.

[scubafanatic]

...over active computer alarms constantly beeping are also highly annoying!

[Sinbad Scuba]

I have a Christmas bell that works nicely. It is not annoying and does get people's attention.

[cloudflint]

Now that ive been diving my twin hose for a while i find the constant noise of my buddies single hose reg's drive me nuts. I find myself wishing they would stop breathing out so much :D

Never encountered a shaker except in a swimming pool where i could constantly hear it clink clink clinking along the bottom.

[DwayneJ]

Get a flashlight - Much more reliable means to get your buddies attention. A high quality twist on and off C Cell e-led flashlight is about $100.

[DevonDiver]

Noise pollution on dives is sickening. I like my dives to be tranquil. Noise from rattles, quackers, horns etc carries a long way and tends to be used over-enthusiastically. It's also completely unnecessary.

Instructors using them on courses encourage students to use them through role-modelling. The students then become underwater noise polluters. I wish those instructors would stop.

[fdog]

I hate noisemakers of all kinds. It's the ultimate in underwater egocentrism - "Hey! I want you to stop looking at your cool thing, and come look at the cooler thing I found."

And usually it's yet another <insert common sea creature here> that we've seen a zillion times.

All the best, James

[tstormdiver]

Instructors using them on courses encourage students to use them through role-modelling. The students then become underwater noise polluters. I wish those instructors would stop.

Although I see your point,... In low vis (sometimes 5- 10 ft) conditions with more than 4 students, it is vital to keep everyone together. Even with the longest briefing & planning there is & an assistant, there are some that still tend to stray. I do not use my rattle except when neccesary & keep the noise to a minimum. Very few of my students have gotten rattles because I was using them. I will agree consatnt noise making IS irritating, but there are also time when it may be neccesary.

[beautybelow]

They do have their places though. For instance when going along a reef where it's known that whale sharks or mantas cruise and you have a group ahead of you with a good guide and you hear that tank banger going off like crazy you know to keep an eye out for a whale shark.

Which is why pretty much everyone is there.

I think people would get grumpier if a whale shark swam by and the guide didn't bang his tank to at least try and get their attention to see it.

It's another case of you can't abolish the whole idea of something across the board. (no pun intended)

There is good and bad with everything I suppose.

[Jax]

:huh: This is an advanced topic?

Wouldn't it be better in the basic forum, where divers could learn about noise annoying others?

[Pullmyfinger]

It's probably all of the "advanced divers" that are over-utilizing the noise makers. ;-)
I agree with the earlier poster, who mentioned the constant computer alarms.

-Mitch

[Krazytomdiver]

As a dive guide,I use a S/S wand & a shaker in order to get divers attention. Sometimes I actually have to "shake" or "tap" the spaced out diver! As a guide it is important device for safety & relaying dive instructions. What do all you noise intolerate divers do when a boat goes over head,anchors clanking,computer alarms going off ??? Find the correct dive attitude & quit being a whiney control freak or just dive solo !!!

"living life without a hard bottom"
KT

[rameus]

As a dive guide,I use a S/S wand & a shaker in order to get divers attention. Sometimes I actually have to "shake" or "tap" the spaced out diver! As a guide it is important device for safety & relaying dive instructions. What do all you noise intolerate divers do when a boat goes over head,anchors clanking,computer alarms going off ???

Hey there!
I personally understand THIS exact use of a shaker, banger or what ever other signaling device is out there. Starting off wit my article (http://rameus.com/diving/underwater-noise-divers-shakers) I wrote.

For PRIVATE divers there is very little use for something like that. And if guides are bad rolemodels (which they (I hope we all agree on that) can not only be with making noise underwater) students will do it exactly the same way as seen with their rolemodel.

Thomas

[kazbanz]

As a means of getting attention I can't see sound as being in any way ideal. I wat5ched an instructor trying to get his students attention. Poor student was loooking all over the place trying to work out where the sound came from

[Bratface]

I use a big steel caribiner to bang on my tank when a really cool critter swims by. Like stated in an earlier post, who wants to miss the whale shark or the manta ray or turtle?

What I find annoying is the new diver with a tank banger going off at every parrot fish or yellow tailed snapper.

[DevonDiver]

It's probably all of the "advanced divers" that are over-utilizing the noise makers. ;-)

I've only ever encountered noise polluters in Thailand. It was always the dive guides and/or instructors. Lots of idiot DMs there though...



I agree with the earlier poster, who mentioned the constant computer alarms.

I've never experienced this. I guess it must be 'ascent alarms' that are causing the problem?

When guiding divers/students, I don't let them ascend anywhere near fast enough for this to be a problem. All peaceful and quiet in my water :D

[gcbryan]

Since sound is omni-directional underwater I don't see noise makers as being ideal and as mentioned it is very annoying as are strobes on someones tank and head mounted lights. Some things are just a bad idea :)

[beautybelow]

Since sound is omni-directional underwater I don't see noise makers as being ideal and as mentioned it is very annoying as are strobes on someones tank and head mounted lights. Some things are just a bad idea :)

I guess that brings up a question...do you think you can, after many dives and having to pay attention , actually tell the direction from which the sound is coming from?

Or is it just intuition.

[beautybelow]

Since noise makers don't work underwater, what would everyone who doesn't like them or thinks that recommend a dive guide use as an alternative to help point out something worthwhile on a dive?

[rameus]

I guess that brings up a question...do you think you can, after many dives and having to pay attention , actually tell the direction from which the sound is coming from?

Or is it just intuition.

Personally I'd say when you start getting familiar with the conditions and dive in the same waters for a few weeks and you know the diver: THEN you will have a higher chance to hear the direction of the sounds. but that is an other discussion which can probably never be dicussed with a final result everyone agrees on.

[gcbryan]

I guess that brings up a question...do you think you can, after many dives and having to pay attention , actually tell the direction from which the sound is coming from?

Or is it just intuition.

It's just an educated guess or if the viz is good you just look around until you see the noise maker. It's like a sub-woofer with your stereo. You can't tell where it's coming from.

[NWGratefulDiver]

Occasional use of noise-makers doesn't bother me ... constant use definitely gets irritating after a while. Dive computer alarms go off for a reason ... if they're going off constantly, the diver needs to address the reasons why. Unfortunately, most of the time I notice them the computer belongs to a diver who has adapted himself to tuning them out ... which is what happens when you hear something often enough. At that point, he might as well just turn them off and quit annoying everyone else.

Quackers, shakers, and tank-bangers get over-used in most vacation areas. Cozumel comes to mind as one of the noisiest places I've ever been diving ... because every dive guide in the water seems to be married to the damn things. Again ... if you over-use something, people start tuning it out. So after quacking, shaking or banging for a couple hundred times, that whale shark would have to bump into me to get me to look up when I heard one ... by then I'm actively trying to ignore it.

Like most things ... they serve a purpose when used in moderation. Overusing them just annoys everyone else around you ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Airleron]

In Low viz, quackers and other noise devices do no good. My buddy and I had the quackers, and them a friend got one. He went wild with it. Every fish got a quack. We ditched ours the next day.

I agree with Bob, Cozumel and the Blue Heron Bridge are unbelievably noisy divesites.

[tstormdiver]

In Low viz, quackers and other noise devices do no good.

I disagree. It is in low vis that I use my rattle with students. In low vis,I have them follow guide ropes from 1 attraction to another. I give them the instructions that if they hear my rattle, they are to stop whatever they are doing (unless it is an emergency), & look for me. We are all on the same guide rope, so it is not difficult to find me. With those instructions, it has worked very well.

[dmoore19]

I can't hear much underwater. I can't hear much above water without my hearing aids. Can't hear my own computer beep so I just turn the sound off. The "quackers" I can hear, tank bangers not so much. I find the bubbles from my own regulator normal and reassuring. The bubble noise comes with the territory. I can understand the point but really, just sounds like some folks need to chill out and enjoy what they are doing and quit b!tching. If those things bother you so much, dive with somebody who doesn't use them. As for the new diver, myself being inexperienced, maybe that parrot fish doesn't mean anything to you but to a new diver it may still be exciting and new. After a couple hundred dives maybe they too will be bored and looking for something to complain about. Maybe this thread should be in the Whine and Cheese section.

[Gilldiver]

When guiding divers/students, I don't let them ascend anywhere near fast enough for this to be a problem. All peaceful and quiet in my water :D

You can get a wrist mounted computer beeping by just moving your hand through the water column from low to high. I had thing occur a number of times in the wrecks or going up an anchor line so I just turn them off.

As for tank bangers, the way we dive if I or any of my buddies hear a knife banging on a tank we will start looking around as we use it ONLY as a signal of distress or emergency.

[moregooder]

In the begining I guise I did a lot, when we got are OMS masks and com system we did a lot, now not so much. with time in the water ( for me anyway) the need to see the best stuff and the need for EVERYONE TO SEE ME SEEING THE BEST STUFF is not that important any more. but if some people do I'm not going to get my pantys all bunched up it is there ocean to.

[Mike]

Never thought of this as a problem. I'm either diving with people who don't over do it, or I'm the guy over doing it.

[NWGratefulDiver]

I can't hear much underwater. I can't hear much above water without my hearing aids. Can't hear my own computer beep so I just turn the sound off. The "quackers" I can hear, tank bangers not so much. I find the bubbles from my own regulator normal and reassuring. The bubble noise comes with the territory. I can understand the point but really, just sounds like some folks need to chill out and enjoy what they are doing and quit b!tching. If those things bother you so much, dive with somebody who doesn't use them.

My buddies don't use them ... but sound carries incredibly well underwater, and it's typically the case that you and your buddy aren't the only ones in the water.



As for the new diver, myself being inexperienced, maybe that parrot fish doesn't mean anything to you but to a new diver it may still be exciting and new. After a couple hundred dives maybe they too will be bored and looking for something to complain about. Maybe this thread should be in the Whine and Cheese section.

I love taking new divers out and showing them the critters .. their enthusiasm for even the most common things brings a sense of perspective to the dive that just makes me grin. On the other hand, I've yet to need to rely on audio signals to get their attention ... hands, lights, and body language work quite well ... and are far more considerate of others who may be diving nearby.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[dmoore19]

My buddies don't use them ... but sound carries incredibly well underwater, and it's typically the case that you and your buddy aren't the only ones in the water.


I love taking new divers out and showing them the critters .. their enthusiasm for even the most common things brings a sense of perspective to the dive that just makes me grin. On the other hand, I've yet to need to rely on audio signals to get their attention ... hands, lights, and body language work quite well ... and are far more considerate of others who may be diving nearby.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I don't have a tank banger, shaker/rattle whatever. My alarms are shut off because I can't hear them so why should anybody else need to listen to them. I do my part to be quiet, but when people start complaining about noise from bubbles, it goes a little too far IMO. Sounds more like b!tching and complaining to me. Lights work great at night. I can see that quackers would be annoying at times. If used properly there isn't a problem with any of them.:D

[soltari675]

I think I've tapped my tank once with my dive knife because I saw a sting ray. It was on my first trip to the ocean, so I was excited. :) But I try not to bother anyone else usually and just like to sight see.

[NWGratefulDiver]

I don't have a tank banger, shaker/rattle whatever. My alarms are shut off because I can't hear them so why should anybody else need to listen to them. I do my part to be quiet, but when people start complaining about noise from bubbles, it goes a little too far IMO. Sounds more like b!tching and complaining to me. Lights work great at night. I can see that quackers would be annoying at times. If used properly there isn't a problem with any of them.:D

Oh I totally agree with that last bit ... and I don't understand the bubbles part either. The complainers must be those rebreather types ... :D

My definition of annoying ... a night dive on Paradise reef in Coz. There must've been a dozen large groups of divers on the reef ... each with a divemaster. Each DM had a noise-maker, and every time one of 'em spotted something they used it. Do you have any idea how much stuff there is to look at on that reef on a night dive?

The noise level reminded me of downtown Manhattan at 2 PM on a typical weekday ... I half expected someone to swim by and holler at me to go f@$k myself ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Mike]

I'm bringing a gong with me on my next dive trip.

[NWGratefulDiver]

I'm bringing a gong with me on my next dive trip.

... and I'm bringing bagpipes ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[dmoore19]

And I'm going to need to know when both of you will be there, I would like to watch it.:D I can turn my PDC alarms on and shoot for some harmony.

[Airleron]

... and I'm bringing bagpipes ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)


Only with the kilt, Bob :D

[soltari675]

Only with the kilt, Bob :D

:popcorn:

[Gilldiver]

Once I was in the water and had the joy of another divers home made underwater walk man. I hate RAP, I hate it even more underwater.

[miketsp]

I think I've tapped my tank once with my dive knife because I saw a sting ray. It was on my first trip to the ocean, so I was excited. :) But I try not to bother anyone else usually and just like to sight see.

I tapped my tank once with my dive knife - never again - afterwards I found while doing it I'd practically sliced through the lp hose on my secondary and I had to replace it. :depressed:

[dmoore19]

Once I was in the water and had the joy of another divers home made underwater walk man. I hate RAP, I hate it even more underwater.

Like I said, I don't hear well underwater or above but sometimes it's not a bad thing. I agree with you!

When sitting at a stoplight next to someone who has their RAP blaring, I will turn up my conservative right wing talk radio station. That usually gets me a nasty look.:D

[NWGratefulDiver]

Like I said, I don't hear well underwater or above but sometimes it's not a bad thing. I agree with you!

When sitting at a stoplight next to someone who has their RAP blaring, I will turn up my conservative right wing talk radio station. That usually gets me a nasty look.:D

Prolly sounded something like this ...

HLfb2MIuee8

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Jax]

I'm bringing a gong with me on my next dive trip.


... and I'm bringing bagpipes ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)


And I'm going to need to know when both of you will be there, I would like to watch it.:D I can turn my PDC alarms on and shoot for some harmony.


Only with the kilt, Bob :D

I'm bringing the cowbell!!!!


. . . and the camera! :D

[dmoore19]

Prolly sounded something like this ...

HLfb2MIuee8

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

That's not fair. I wouldn't do that to you! Besides, I was thinking more along the lines of Hannity or Beck:rofl3:

[NWGratefulDiver]

That's not fair. I wouldn't do that to you! Besides, I was thinking more along the lines of Hannity or Beck:rofl3:

Sorry man ... my humor takes strange turns sometimes.

Personally, I like country rap (aka "crap") ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[dmoore19]

I used to hang out in a bar that had 2 kinds of music, Country and Western.

[iztok]

I've only ever encountered noise polluters in Thailand. It was always the dive guides and/or instructors. Lots of idiot DMs there though...

Hear hear!

I told one DM that I'll break his stick if he will continue to bang his tank every 10 seconds! It drove me crazy and I've only spent 2 days diving Similan's there.

[soltari675]

I tapped my tank once with my dive knife - never again - afterwards I found while doing it I'd practically sliced through the lp hose on my secondary and I had to replace it. :depressed:

Ouch, that has to hurt. I don't have any hoses on my left side at all, aside from the one attached to my BC, so I am pretty safe from that one. I only have two hoses which is nice to avoid any "hose accidents"

[Mike]

More Cowbell!

[vladimir]

What do all you noise intolerate divers do when a boat goes over head,anchors clanking,computer alarms going off ???We realize that we don't have much control over the boat traffic, except to dive in places that don't have too much of it, which I do.


As a dive guide,I use a S/S wand & a shaker in order to get divers attention. Sometimes I actually have to "shake" or "tap" the spaced out diver! As a guide it is important device for safety & relaying dive instructions.As above, you don't have much control over the divemaster, except to avoid the ones that don't mesh with your diving preferences, once you know. I try not to dive with operators who are likely to attract a gaggle of "spaced out divers" that need constant herding by the divemaster, by avoiding cattle boats and going instead with those that allow you the leeway to do your own dive. Then I keep as much space between me and the other divers as I can. That's not always possible though. Other strategies are to make clear to the divemaster pre-dive that you don't want the guided tour--divemasters are usually fine with that, in my experience, but there are always those that can't accept it--perhaps because of language barriers or because they have been conditioned to believe photographers will tip more generously if they are shown every eel and lobster on the reef. The most annoying are those who won't take an "okay" sign as a hint that I don't want to swim over to that crowd of sculling divers they've just assembled, to try to photograph an eel through the silt cloud they kicked up. They just keep tapping or quacking away. Yes, I have swam over and taken a shot (usually without focusing, you just need to fire the strobes) to appease them on occasion.


Find the correct dive attitude & quit being a whiney control freak or just dive solo !!!
I do try to control those aspects of my vacation that I can; I'm paying for it, after all, and usually quite a bit. And I don't think the correct attitude is to resign myself to misguided policies by the people I am paying. I also don't think being oblivious to customers' preferences is the correct attitude for a service provider. If whining here awakens one divemaster to the idea that maybe some of his charges don't appreciate his sideshow, then maybe it's not a waste of time. I do like the solo idea though--does your employer allow solo diving? Many (most?) dive operators don't.

If I have to have a divemaster in the water with me, I look for one that leaves me alone as much as possible, but that's hard to determine in advance. When I find a good one at dive spots I frequent, I keep going back.

[Zippsy]

While I greatly prefer to hear only the marine life sounds, I also see the need for occassional attention getting sounds. I use the Christmas bell when needed or the pointer on the tank if the bell did not get the attention of the diver I need to communicate with. I guess what bothers me more is that people can get so worked up over a little issue.

[melissawest]

I love my banger!!! Nice to have something to use when I needed to get attention as a matter of urgency..... I have NEVER used my banger yet though :)

[rameus]

that's good to see that a simple question or gadget can become such a big discussion reaching to country vs. rap ;-)

and by the way: if i EVER catch someone with an iPod/Pad/iAything underwater and i have to hear his music i swear i'll torture him with my metal-collection for the rest of the day/trip/week ;-)

[highdesert]

I thought the Quacker used by our Dive Master on Roatan worked well and was not annoying.

Would you be speaking of Davit, divemaster at the Reef House? The guy would play La Cucaracha on his sub-duck. I still smile whenever I think of him ... a real gift to the diving world. What will we see on the dive?? "Twenty feet, twenty fish. Fifty feet, fifty fish!" OK, you had to be there. ;)

[PansSiren]

I have a steel caribeaner attached to a d-ring for the purpose of banging it on my tank, but in an emergency situation ONLY. I have never used it yet, and I plan to keep it that way.

[Law5Guy]

that's good to see that a simple question or gadget can become such a big discussion reaching to country vs. rap ;-)

and by the way: if i EVER catch someone with an iPod/Pad/iAything underwater and i have to hear his music i swear i'll torture him with my metal-collection for the rest of the day/trip/week ;-)


you would LOVE the guy with this thing then:
YouTube - Sculs (http://youtu.be/kxxhaRyEtxw)

[rameus]

you would LOVE the guy with this thing then:
YouTube - Sculs (http://youtu.be/kxxhaRyEtxw)

I guess I would love him with all my camera housing ;-) :banghead:

[NWGratefulDiver]

you would LOVE the guy with this thing then:
YouTube - Sculs (http://youtu.be/kxxhaRyEtxw)

... a pity he didn't think to say something useful like "Hey Jose, your tank valve's leaking" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[cloudflint]

you would LOVE the guy with this thing then:
YouTube - Sculs (http://youtu.be/kxxhaRyEtxw)
It says he is taking orders. Be afraid, be very afraid.

[shoredivr]

I find the whine of my buddies' dive scooters very annoying....because I don't have one yet.

[supergaijin]

I personally do not carry bangers while guiding or teaching underwater. I try to remember to explain to people the reasons why and that I expect divers to act like divers and have a look around.

I find that divers... no make that tourists who are out of control underwater do not respond to noise stimulus at all and it usually requires me to swim over to them and sort them out.

Nothing worse than watching mantas on a cleaning station for 10 mins until a new guide shows up and starts making a racket driving the fish away. Times like that I feel the need for an underwater shotgun.

A single ding is more than enough for attention....
Repetitive dinging at intervals should be reserved for emergencies
Going hell for leather with a shaker or quacker should result in other emergencies!

[makochum]

I have only two pet peeves when diving. One is excessive noise while diving from shakers, bangers, clickers, etc. The other is having my personal space invaded. Just because we are dive buddies does not mean I want you or anyone else in my hip pocket. If we are 6' away and I can see you and you can see me, that is more that adequate for me.

[RTee]

... and I'm bringing bagpipes ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

...and I want a picture of you diving with the matching kilt

Mako...too much closeness is all relative on who is your diving buddy and how she looks like...;-)

[beester]

I hate shakers with a vengeance... it creates in me an alergic reaction almost akin to an anaphalactic shock.

Seriously... why do you need this. I communicate with focused light and handsignals... not with noise. Next to that I will listen to a divebriefing religiously, make notes, ask questions about local circumstances... but once in the water, unless there is a very compelling reason, I'm on my merry way within the scope of the brief (ie if it's agreed to keep runtime to max 80 minutes I'll stick to that). I'm not going to bee-line behind a divemaster. Sure I might miss some stuff I would like to see but I won't miss the agrevation.

Agrevation that starts because I have to bee-line behind a divemaster who turns a dive because one of his followers is low on air, or having byuancy issues, or is stressed by current, etc. Me and my buddies or team love nothing more then be left alone. Luckily on most dive holidays (be it liveaboard or shoredives) the divemaster/instructors will know very well after watching people setting up equipment or latest after a checkdive how they behave. Most divemasters also don't mind a bit if you talk to them and tell them they don't need to guide your dive :-)

[scubadiveilat]

Shakers are the best invention for getting the attention of divers.

It's the way I communicate all the time. As some places in the world do not permit use of knives to prevent from damaging corals. Shakers are the thing.

To use it for no reason is a nuisance.

Have fun diving!!!!

[modzs]

I've never been in a situation where I felt that there was excess noise underwater. My LDS teaches that you and you dive buddy/group should always be in visual range with each other. Also the use of lights and hand signal is advocated over the use of noise makers.

[SoccerJeni]

This is so weird to hear people say that others do it too much. Not that I have a lot of dives, but I've only heard 1 noise maker underwater 1 time ever.

[charlesml3]

Ha! ha!

"Traumatic Experience"

"Sickening"

and my personal favorite:

"Reminded me of downtown Manhattan at 2pm"

Jeez, exaggerate much? If a few shakers or bangers on a dive cause you to become physically ill or traumatized, then what happens when you see the photos of people leaping to their deaths from the WTC on 9/11? I realize that forums cause almost everyone to grossly exaggerate due to the lack of inflection, body language and volume but please, noise makers are not traumatic or sickening.

Like everything else, they can be useful or somewhat annoying. After a couple days of diving with a group I know who has what noisemaker. I also keep a decent eye on where the other divers are so when I hear a given sound, I know where to look.

They were very useful a couple of weeks ago in Sulawesi. If it hadn't been for the shakers very few of us would have seen the Hammerhead, the Pink Leaf-Scorpion Fish, the Mantis Shrimp, and the Cuttlefish.

If someone on your boat is shaking it at every Squirrelfish that swims by then politely and calmly talk to them on the boat and explain how the proper use is for something really interesting.

If you just absolutely cannot stand them at all then quit diving Cozumel, Belize, Roatan, and probably Bonaire. These are very popular dive destinations. Cozumel has some 50 dive operators for only a dozen or so dive sites. You're going to get a lot of new divers there using noisemakers. Go to St. Eustatius instead.

-Charles

[bracko]

I personally only use a rattle to communicate with my students when conducting OW classes. The rest of the time it is hand, body or light signals. I was on a liveaboard trip a few years ago in which a gent (used loosely) had a little pointer stick. It was fine for that application, until he learned that he could use it to easily tap his tank. For the rest of the trip all's I heard was "tap, tap, tap..... tap, tap, tap....." as he would use it to get his buddy's attention, constantly, to the point it started to grate on my nerves.

we had this with one of the DM's on a liveaboard, except it was a rattle (I also have one, but it lives tucked into the shoulder of my BCD until i need it).

after about 3 dives (and some discussions with other clients) it went "missing" :D to be surprisingly found as we departed the boat.