I wanted to point out a few observations I had on our recent dive trip to Roatan. I noted a couple of things I have not seen before, and I don't know whether I should be concerned or hopeful :dontknow: Sea creature behavior interests me above everything else, so I am hoping some of our resident experts can help me determine what is going on.
On several dives this trip we observed moray eels. This is nothing out of the ordinary in Roatan. But the way they behaved this trip was WAY different than I have seen in the past ten years of diving Roatan. On three or four different occasions, the eels actually came out, swam to us and checked us out...as if they were looking for something. Then it occurred to me - there has been lots of lionfish hunting going on to try and control the lionfish population and the dead lionfish are being fed to the eels in an attempt to teach the eels to incorporate lionfish into their normal diet. I'm sure this is why the eels were more eager to approach us - they were looking for handouts!
Now I am wondering what to expect from the eels...has the effort to control the lionfish population resulted in training eels to be more aggressive towards divers? None of the ones we saw were actually aggressive, but they were definitely not afraid of divers. On the positive side, although I did see plenty of lionfish on this trip. the concentration of them seemed to be somewhat less than on our last couple of visits.
Any input ?
gt68
May 9th, 2011, 06:12 PM
Saw the same thing in Coz on our April trip.My wife had to kick hard to get away from one of them.Many eels looking for a handout.
underthedeepblue
May 9th, 2011, 08:47 PM
Massive debate raging over on the Cozumel forum last week about exactly this issue
I just got back from Coz and I was a little irritated with the DM using the dive as a *fishing* expedition for Lionfish
a/ because i don't like to see the kill irrespective of the need to kill them - that's not what I am paying to witness and
b/ the DM should be guiding the dive and paying attention to the paying guests imho
A woman was attacked by a Moray last week and she posted her concerns here on the Coz forum (and was mauled by some of the peeps here too)
I think what you felt was happening on your dives may very well be true
Mike
May 9th, 2011, 09:37 PM
I wanted to point out a few observations I had on our recent dive trip to Roatan. I noted a couple of things I have not seen before, and I don't know whether I should be concerned or hopeful :dontknow: Sea creature behavior interests me above everything else, so I am hoping some of our resident experts can help me determine what is going on.
On several dives this trip we observed moray eels. This is nothing out of the ordinary in Roatan. But the way they behaved this trip was WAY different than I have seen in the past ten years of diving Roatan. On three or four different occasions, the eels actually came out, swam to us and checked us out...as if they were looking for something. Then it occurred to me - there has been lots of lionfish hunting going on to try and control the lionfish population and the dead lionfish are being fed to the eels in an attempt to teach the eels to incorporate lionfish into their normal diet. I'm sure this is why the eels were more eager to approach us - they were looking for handouts!
Now I am wondering what to expect from the eels...has the effort to control the lionfish population resulted in training eels to be more aggressive towards divers? None of the ones we saw were actually aggressive, but they were definitely not afraid of divers. On the positive side, although I did see plenty of lionfish on this trip. the concentration of them seemed to be somewhat less than on our last couple of visits.
Any input ?
Oh boy, sadly it's happening all over the place. No different the feeding of moray's hot dogs on every dive to create a 'pet' moray that eventually takes off a guys thumb, then feeding them dead lion fish. Ask some people if they know about the moray culling on Bonaire long ago on one of the dive sites as the ultimate result of feeding them for so long they went from curious to aggresively curious. They went from seeing divers and coming out to greet them at thier holes, to free swiming in the open to greet them, to swiming up to the dive boats to greet the divers, people were jumping in and having aggressive morays on top of them as soon as they hit the water.
RoatanMan
May 9th, 2011, 10:02 PM
CajunDiva... The DM's at your former-favorite dive resort fed fish (and eels) with regularity. There is one Eel on Managerie that 9 times out of 10- he'll appear as you jump in and approach the reef and then flit along, shadowing divers. I believe he has absolutely associated divers with food. On this dive site, you will notice that even the Jacks are pretty aggressive, again I believe from a recent history of hand feeding.
Eels can be quite inquisitive and by our perception of them, they can be quite shock inducing. I have had numerous eels barrel straight at me, then diverting blow- often wriggling past right through my legs!
They are very bright critters and it would be no stretch to have them associate us with easy food sources. You might likely be quite right.
hdtran
May 9th, 2011, 10:04 PM
(to the tune of "That's amore")
When you swim in the sea
and an eel bites your knee
That's a moray...
CajunDiva
May 9th, 2011, 10:55 PM
CajunDiva... The DM's at your former-favorite dive resort fed fish (and eels) with regularity. There is one Eel on Managerie that 9 times out of 10- he'll appear as you jump in and approach the reef and then flit along, shadowing divers. I believe he has absolutely associated divers with food. On this dive site, you will notice that even the Jacks are pretty aggressive, again I believe from a recent history of hand feeding.
Eels can be quite inquisitive and by our perception of them, they can be quite shock inducing. I have had numerous eels barrel straight at me, then diverting blow- often wriggling past right through my legs!
They are very bright critters and it would be no stretch to have them associate us with easy food sources. You might likely be quite right.
Now Doc...you know I love you :kiss2: BUT...this issue is much more widespread than just my favorite spot. This is a common practice all over the island. What I am wondering is...could it actually be working :confused: It could have just been chance, but I didn't see the HUGE numbers of lionfish on this last trip that I have seen the last couple of times I visited Roatan. I'm just sayin'...
CajunDiva
May 9th, 2011, 11:09 PM
Oh boy, sadly it's happening all over the place. No different the feeding of moray's hot dogs on every dive to create a 'pet' moray that eventually takes off a guys thumb, then feeding them dead lion fish.
Mike, I hear what you're saying loud and clear. In this case I don't think there are any issues with feeding them anything other than lionfish...and not even necessarily DEAD lionfish. Usually when you spear the lionfish it doesn't kill them right away and sometimes the eels get them like that. As RoatanMan says, eels are intelligent creatures...I'm wondering if they are actually "learning" to hunt lionfish. That would be great for the reefs, but if they're also associating divers with the source of getting the lionfish, that won't be a positive thing at all.
We should all pay close attention and see what happens in the near future with the population of lionfish and the interactions between divers and eels...this is interesting stuff :beerchug:
Byte Me
May 13th, 2011, 03:16 PM
On a March live aboard trip to Belize the DMs were spearing lionfish but we didn't have any luck w/ Moray's eating them, only larger grouper would eat the dead lionfish so we didn't witness any of the behavior Ms Diva observed. We did enjoy a nice afternoon snack though of lionfish sticks which were quite good. However, in reading her original post it did bring to mind this recent article from Undercurrent - Sharks Under Siege: Part I: Undercurrent 04/2011 (http://www.undercurrent.org/UCnow/dive_magazine/2011/SharksUnderSiege201104.html) . Irrespective of Undercurrent's efficacy as a news source, if sharks can apparently be learning to associate divers with food, why not morays?
RoatanMan
May 13th, 2011, 04:14 PM
BUT...this issue is much more widespread than just my favorite spot. This is a common practice all over the island...
I am seeing more aggressive fish behaviors consistently on Managerie versus any other South side dive spot. This is in the top 5 such South side dive spots visited by local operations, and it has always been a place where Divemasters took liberty to feed the fish. CCV's DMs were instructed to quit the practice years ago, but I watched a DM from FI doing it twice in one week. So, no- it is not everyone that is doing it, but I agree- it is widespread.
My point was not to denigrate any resort, nor even the practice. I was trying to point out that of the two main resort groups that visit there- only one feeds them- yet they react the very same way when non-feeding groups show up.
The point was: If you go to Missing Link or 4o Foot Point, dive sites right "next door", the fish behave a lot differently- very passive, distant and wary. They apparently do learn behaviors, they are highly localized, and the Moray that inhabits that site- being an especially smart fish... he has this routine worked out in detail. Look at the Eels at Cayman's Stingray City. They behave unlike any others.
For years, the resident Toadfish at Calvin's Crack would never stick his head out. We fed him bits of bacon. Over the years he grew less wary and more aggressive (whatever "aggressive" means for a Toadfish). That was before we learned to not feed him bacon, he remained adapted to our presence and got much more "out of his hole" - as he still is today. He has also outgrown his little hidey-hole and had to go to a size "58 Portly". But, you're right... DMs from one resort or the other are likely still feeding him to perform.
This is how outgoing he has become....
Fd4tMRRfOg4
Learned behavior is indeed what you have been seeing. Not so sure that the Eels will make the crossover from a "pre-killed" fish dinner versus a live Lionfish, especially since Morays much prefer scavenging dead things. As I say, "They don't get that big by being stupid". And the corollary is: "Watch out for the little ones, they got nothing to lose".
further singing......
In the reef he does hide
he can swim
he can glide,
ats'a Moray
Put your hand in the crack
and you won't get it back
It's a Moray
PlantationBeachResort
May 26th, 2011, 01:33 PM
As the sole dive operation in Cayos Cochinos, we have the responsibility of reef protection and lionfish eradication. We do not have as many lionfish as Utila and Roatan do. The ones we do see on our sites are speared (assuming we have 2 professionals in the water, 1 to lead the dive, the other to assist the DM and to spear). To integrate lionfish into the diets of capable predators, we simply kill the lionfish and leave it off the spear. We originally thought we should try to entice eels, but were afraid of the exact behavior described above. We don't exactly know if anything here has caught on to eating them, and may not know for some time, but the eels are unchanged.
tarponchik
May 26th, 2011, 03:28 PM
Back in 2007, we were also surprised when we saw a green moray swimming along with us. They feed the fish, that's why. I have pics of that somewhere, including the swiming moray.
rob@diveinutila.com
May 27th, 2011, 09:46 AM
As the sole dive operation in Cayos Cochinos, we have the responsibility of reef protection and lionfish eradication. We do not have as many lionfish as Utila and Roatan do.
I would make a slightly different comment to that - obviously you dive Cayos Cochinos sites far more then we do but we do visit from Utila around once every month or so. What we see is for the sites actually within the islands themselves our experience is the same. However, on Roatan Banks and the sea mounts to the east of there we see many more lion fish than we see around Utila. This may be simply because these are rarely dived sites by anyone and only a little eradication takes place there.
To integrate lionfish into the diets of capable predators, we simply kill the lionfish and leave it off the spear. This is what I am telling our divemasters to do now as well.
freshorangina
May 28th, 2011, 05:38 PM
I am not an animal behavior specialist by any means, but it seems to me that providing dead lionfish to the indigenous fauna would only teach them to eat dead lionfish. Hunting a live animal that is very defensive and whose toxins are still viable while alive is a very different learning process than scavenging the castoffs from divers. The lionfish epidemic is a pretty massive problem, and while kill on sight methods can control the populations to some extent, I think it would be better to try to find ways to target them with species specific fishing methods. I think there is something to be learned here from those who have been involved in the aquarium trade in south asia. This is an area I plan to do a lot more research on in the future.
BTW - Kudos to Utila for having their first lionfish derby a few weeks ago!
rob@diveinutila.com
May 30th, 2011, 10:58 AM
As with many things in life doing the right thing is not always so clear! I wonder what the consensus on Scubaboard is for the best way to deal with Lionfish....
georoc01
May 30th, 2011, 02:06 PM
We didn't notice it last week witht he eels, but definitely with the groupers. They recognize the yellow handled spears and will eat the lionfish right off the spear.
I do think its a standoff on the regularly dived sites. When you head deeper on those walls (like 140 feet), or over to the Eastern end of Roatan, we saw many more lionfish, and after killing 30+ in the first 15 minutes of the dive frankly we didn't want to spend our entire dive just killing lionfish and gave up. Can make for good fish bait on the return trip or maybe a cerviche?
Bay Island Diver
May 30th, 2011, 09:51 PM
This is a very good point being made.
a) Do you want your divemaster spending more time looking for lionfish to kill tha cool critters to show you.
b) Id feeding lionfish to native species changing their behaviour.
In answer to a, personally i would say NO, let your divemaster trainees, do the killing, you stay focused on the dive.
In answer to b, it is changing behaviours without doubt. In the way we wished probably not. Nassau grouper have shadowed me on every dive i have done recently hoping for a handout. I have also noticed more free swimming morays. Currently their behaviour has seemed far from aggresive, giving me nbo reason to worry about safety, but it is something that should be monitored.
The guys killing lionfish and keeping them to eat, by towing them in five gallon drums behind them, just the same drums the sharks at the shark dive are fed from, now that is creating an interesting situation!
Bay Island Diver
May 30th, 2011, 09:57 PM
By the way Lionfish derby's have been a regular event on Roatan for months!
RoatanMan
May 30th, 2011, 10:59 PM
As with many things in life doing the right thing is not always so clear! I wonder what the consensus on Scubaboard is for the best way to deal with Lionfish....
In Florida, our divemasters are not allowed to hunt while guiding dives. While this pulls at my soul when I'm DM'ing (as I'm an avid lion fish hunter/killer), I see the biggest need is in keeping out divers safe. When I am diving for pure pleasure, I kill the larger lion fish and keep and eat them.....the smaller ones I kill and leave in the hopes that some marine life will be curious and eventually decide to incorporate them into their diet. Feeding the dead fish to marine life is not a good idea. We should not "train" marine life to depend on divers for food. That would be hazardous to divers in the long run if eels and grouper decided divers provided them with food. Killing the lion fish and leaving for eels and groupers to find might make them interested in eating them, and hopefully they will eventually become predators to the live ones. It's like teaching a kid to like spinach......they have to taste enough of it to aquire a taste....but not at the cost of teaching them to depend on divers for their supply.
jw.watson3
June 2nd, 2011, 08:53 AM
Hello all,
We just got from a trip to Roatan we stayed at Turquoise Bay and did all of our diving with Subway Watersports. I specifically requested a Lionfish Hunts . We killed quit a few lionfish those days the ones that were too small to eat where killed on the spear and dropped. So whatever lucky critter found it first was the one who got the free snack. I am also a DM and I think that this is a good practice in preserving the reef. Granted there are some fish that are smart enough to see the yellow spears and watched us very closely to see if there was a freebie for them, However, their kept distance. I got two stings on the same hand on the same dive, trying to get put Lionfish in the catch bag I will revisit that issue for the next trip. I have to say it made the Lionfish that much more tasty. I was hoping to get in on the derby but there were not enough spears on the island. The Derby will be for another trip even if I have to send spears through the mail.
