Technical Fins for Wet Divers?

[fyue]

Ok, whats the best set of fins for a wet diver (3mm wetsuit) who wants something for technical maneuvers (frog and helicopter) and does not weigh more than my tank (slight sarcasm here)? I like Jet fins, but they are just too darned heavy. Most of their bretheren are also heavy. I can't seem to find a consensus on this and would like some opinions from the warm water divers. Thanks!

[fdog]

Dive Rite EXP's.

If you want lightweight and pinpoint precision, then keep your eyes open for an old pair of Mares Plana Graphites, but be prepared to work out (they are very stiff). I also use Quattro's, but although lightweight, they are floppier and not as crisp.

Really, though, the weight difference between correct-fitting Jets and the others isn't as much as you would think; when you put them on a scale you end up scratching your head.


All the best, James

[Tortuga68]

You could look at OMS Slipstreams too - same design as Jet's but made of monoprene instead of rubber so much lighter (and not negatively buoyant, which can be either good or bad)

Personally I dive a 3mm shorty and use XL Jets, it doesn't bother me. I also have a set of L Jets (which I wear with rubber-soled neoprene socks instead of booties to get the fit) that I use for travel as they are significantly smaller and lighter than XLs

If you want to reduce weight you could also consider forgoing springstraps and use the standard rubber straps

[Centrals]

The difference between a pair of Jet Fin and the similar size Mares Quattro is about 500g(1lb).
They are selling at around the same price in HK.
In OW I will go for Mares but Slipstream for overhead environement.

[DevonDiver]

I would say SP Jets, but if weight was a primary concern then the OMS Slipstreams are a better option.

My personal choice is Force Fins... plenty of maneuoveability, lightweight, robust and the most effortless propulsion available.

[xeon_intel]

+1 for force fin pro,...

[danvolker]

Ok, whats the best set of fins for a wet diver (3mm wetsuit) who wants something for technical maneuvers (frog and helicopter) and does not weigh more than my tank (slight sarcasm here)? I like Jet fins, but they are just too darned heavy. Most of their bretheren are also heavy. I can't seem to find a consensus on this and would like some opinions from the warm water divers. Thanks!

This is one of my favorite posting topics, because I have tried so many fins, and I dive in an environment where good propulsive efficiency is hugely important for maximum enjoyment and safety on our dives.

Without any question, whatsoever, the best fins are DiveR freedive fins DiveR Australia: Equipment (http://www.diveraustralia.com.au/equipment.php)


They are not for penetration in to tight overheads...they are so long that they could scrape the ceiling above you, in situations where it would be a non-issue for jet fin wearing divers, so these will never be Cave diving fins...I am discussing best for open water diving.


I can do a faster reverse kick in these than practically anyone could do with jets, and the helicopter turn is so easy that you really don't even have to learn it--it just becomes a natural technique/kick for you. :-)

Moreover, these come in 3 different stiffnesses, to allow optimizing for your level of muscle development and cardio, plus required torque ( how much you are pushing). I use the stiffest ones they make, and as a competitive cyclist, I would actually like to go one level even stiffer, but these are awesome as they are....they are stiff enough to be an optimal control surface in scootering, or for micro adjustments while gliding....and they deliver the most massive and enormous glide after each kick cycle you can imagine! It makes a frog kick toss you forward like someone just shoved you forward :-) With a dolphin kick, I can hit speeds only imagined with a hot gavin scooter, and on a normal paced dive, the efficiency is so high that maintaning the pace of your buddies should allow close to resting resting heart rate==meaning the lowest SAC rate you are going to achieve.

I will have to have one of my buddies shoot some video of me swimming with these, next to a jet fin wearing diver, as well as reverse kicking with them :D

If you "think" you know what there are like because you have used cressi garas or some other standard freediving fin before....you don't. Think of the cressi gara 2000 or 3000 like the bladfish "scooter", and the DiverR's like the next evolution of a Gavin....there is no comparison....Typical freedive fins, while efficient, don't really reverse kick well..some will frog kick well, some brands or freedive fins won't. They are also too flexible to be a good control surface for precise adjustments....The Dive R's I have are stiff enough to offer exact control surface functions, but they also have an efficiency when being kicked, radically unlike any other fin this stiff--meaning they don't end up "feeling" like they are stiff, because you get so much back from each kick....to work less, you kick slower, and you will still be moving far faster than you would have imagined possible.
The technology of the DiveR's is radically different..both the angle of the blade, and the composite material creating the unique power curves this fin has in different kicks and wattage applied.
I have also talked with Ray Powel, creator of DiveR fins, about them making a more DIR-sized version of these fins ( not so long), more optimal for all the environments DIR divers operate in--closer to the longer jet fins in length....They actually have something like this, that they are planning on sending to me to demo....still light-years beyond the old technology of the jet fins, and much more efficient, not quite as fast as the DiveR's I use, but much faster than any of the traditional fins.
In GUE-speak....:-) Cave exploration gear choice would be Gavin long body scooter, ocean dives Gavin short body scooter....for me, ocean in long blade DiveR fins, and in shipwreck penetration or cave, the shorter DiverR fins :-)

[rongoodman]

I've been very happy with the Slipstreams, for everything from 3mm wetsuit to dry suit and doubles. They make back kicks and helicopter turns very easy. I use the spring straps from XS Scuba with them--the mounting hardware is pretty much bombproof.

[ianr33]

Another vote for Slipstreams

[aquaregia]

I like my Mares Avanti X3s with my wetsuit. I'm convinced that my XL Jets are too heavy wet.

[Doc Harry]

I dive with jet fins in tropical waters, never had an issue with them being "too heavy" (except when I'm dealing with airline baggage weight restrictions).

[aquaregia]

It's likely a skills issue on my part :)

[TSandM]

I use the DiveRite EXPs when I want lighter fins (or longer blades for the same foot pocket size).

I can testify from personal observation, though, that Dan is right . . . He can swim circles around anybody in Jet fins.

Dan, I'd be really curious about what you think about the shorter free diving fins. Yours are just too long for me to be willing to manage on a boat -- as you saw, I can fall over in the ones I have. :)

[Kevrumbo]

Medium size SP Jetfins with spring-straps for Tech/Wreck Diving, also for warm water tropics, with a diveskin/1mm wetsuit and 2mm hooded vest, with no extra weight needed other than a 1kg Aluminum Backplate.

I like the durability of the heavy rubber jetfins, which can handle the abuse of wreck penetration (i.e. "Spider-Man" or "Chimney Climb (http://www.ehow.com/how_6972_climb-chimney-rock.html)" technique in a narrow corridor where you hold station with your fins against the walls while doing line work etc); and they trim out perfectly for a set of double 11L cylinders & attached deco bottles.

[fyue]

It's interesting to see all the comments for Jet fins and how they are not 'heavy' (DIR conspiracy? :)). There are many posts floating around stating that they are definitely heavy and dense (negative), being close to 7 pounds with springs, depending on fin size. There is a reason dry divers like them and can dive with them without ankle weights. So, as my original post stated, Jetfins are too heavy for me. If you like Jetfins, I respect your opinion but I will not be going in that direction.

I welcome opinions about other fins for me to consider. Thanks!

[Tortuga68]

There have already been 6 alternatives to Jets suggested

[fyue]

There have already been 6 alternatives to Jets suggested

Agreed. I am looking at them. The OMS Slipstreams look like the best candidate so far. All the benefits of Jet fins without the weight. I also tend to like the Mares Quattros. Force Fins, while very intriguing, are too expensive. A lot of my friends (and I) freedive and the fins are cool, but just not great for scuba around wrecks. I was just looking to see if there was additional input from divers that might influence my decision and to make the comment that Jet fin devotees need not apply.

[Tortuga68]

If the "Jet fin devotees" hadn't posted in this thread then you wouldn't have gotten 6 alternative suggestions

I find the Slipstreams feel a bit 'stiff' compared to Jets. The foot pockets have a deeper, wider & more rounded shape, I find them more comfortable than Jets

I just weighted my size L Jets with springstraps and the weight of the pair is about 5 lbs 14oz. From what I recall XL Slipstreams with SS are about 5 lbs 4 oz. Two size "regular" quattro fins with spring straps is around 4 lbs 12 oz. Removing the SS saves about 8 oz. So you're not talking about huge differences IMO

[aquaregia]

I just weighted my size L Jets with springstraps and the weight of the pair is about 5 lbs 14oz. From what I recall XL Slipstreams with SS are about 5 lbs 4 oz. Two size "regular" quattro fins with spring straps is around 4 lbs 12 oz. Removing the SS saves about 8 oz. So you're not talking about huge differences IMO

Would you say the Quattros have similar displacement to the Jets? To me they seem longer but not as thick. I'd be careful of inferring too much from dry weights.

[rlynch]

another vote for Slipstreams - my current fav
i've retired the scubapro twinjets and the atomic splits

great fins

[Ste Wart]

quattros wet or dry.

I've used them in so many different environments and they've served me right every time. With a good neoprene booty they will angle up nicely whatever the exposure suit so you can always have good trim.

Possible downside is the length, they can scrap the sides of tight restrictions easier when compared to a JetFin or force fin, which are much shorter. However the plus is the straight line propulsion you can get out of them in a current.

[Matt S.]

Another vote for DiveRites here.

Man, those freediving fins are enormous! Do they come with a clown nose? ;)

[danvolker]

Ok, whats the best set of fins for a wet diver (3mm wetsuit) who wants something for technical maneuvers (frog and helicopter) and does not weigh more than my tank (slight sarcasm here)? I like Jet fins, but they are just too darned heavy. Most of their bretheren are also heavy. I can't seem to find a consensus on this and would like some opinions from the warm water divers. Thanks!

My big DiveR blades will frogkick incredibly well.....Helicopters are awesome.
Reverse kick is good for short duration...meaning if you only have to do it for a short while.....the long blades have so much leverage, that it is a lot of stress on the muscles on the front of your shins....When I went through GUE fundies, I insisted I could do everything with my DiveR's.....well , yes I could, for a while....but in Fundies, where you may be trying to be motionless for 5 hours, the constant reverse kicks take their toll quickly...even for me as a competitive cyclist.... With Jets I can reverse kick all day long if I want to...without any muscle fatigue.

So the deal is, if your use could include exploration level penetrations, where you may very well need to be almost dead stopped alot, and perhaps do some serious backing up...not just pulling back once in a while from a photo subject( which the DiveR's do just fine)....the serious backward travel is not ideal for a full length DiveR blade.....We have a new cave we are planning to penetrate soon on a 115 deep reef ledge--actually a roll off, not the main ledge...... off of Boynton ( a diver we know went in to it, and is going to take us to it) ..this is supposedly MORE than 60 feet the diver went in, before aborting, due to no cave light.....and it was narrow to the point that he had to crawl out backwards....we would reverse kick in this instance, rather than silt as he did. I would want either jets or cut down DiveR's for this, certainly not the full length blades. As of now, I will be using Jet fins for this :-) I do have some DiveR's I am about to cut down.....just having a hard time bringing myself to cutting into these :-) The technology they represent, for transferring power is amazing, so we do need to see what they will do in a cave diving related length.

If you are talking reefs or wrecks with only large room penetration, the full length DiveR is awesome..Tight penetration will mean they may scrape the ceiling, as they are much longer than jets, and hard to prevent from disturbing the ceiling on a low overhead.

If real precision is what you need, the best all around fin to me is a Jet fin. For tech, for most people, this may be the way you need to go...though it kind of depends on what tech is to you...for some, it may be 240 deep on a reefline, or 280 on top of a big frieghter, with no penetration....this is the realm of the DiveR fin.

Here is a video of a wreck penetration I do with the long blade DiveR's, easily, and where they eclips all jets or alternatives, due to the currents we negotiate "prior to" getting to the wreck... way-too-much-fun - YouTube (http://youtu.be/xKUgKhvcELk?hd=1)

[kierentec]

another vote for the Dive Rite EXPs. awesome response, lots of power, almost neutral in the water. those of you who don't think jets are heavy, have you ever dropped one in the water over a wall? by the time you dump your wing, it's gone...


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[ajduplessis]

SP Jets

[g1138]

Another vote for OMS Slipstreams and Mares Avanti Quattros if you want a lighter fin.
The Quattros feel a bit long compared to Jet fins. OMS feel just like Jet fins but bit more stiff; they're way lighter though. Holding a pair of OMS fins, I would even say it's a little lighter than 1 Jet fin of the same size.
The Quattros like to float fin tip up if tossed in the bottom of a pool. They'll sink in the water just fine. (albeit slowly).

[Teller]

My buddy had jet fins and had the same problem. He uses the OMS fins now and seems to be happy with them. Mares has some good paddle fins as well.