Recommendation of BCD for young teen just starting

[nbats]

She is about 5 feet tall and 95 lbs. Shore dives out of Monterey, CA for the next few years.
Recieved the suggestion of Scuba Pro Lady Hawk.

[reefvagabond]

One of my buddies has been diving Monterey for 10 years. She uses a Sea Quest Pearl with the i3 system and loves it. You can get it without the i3 system if you like.

It's a jacket style so she should have no problems at the surface being face planted.

[Shark Bait!]

Look into a Zeagle Express Tech

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/buoyancy-compensators-bcs-weight-systems/298597-zeagles-express-tech-first-last-bc-most-will-ever-need-want.html

On another note, a back inflate BC does not "face plant" you in the water. Diving is always enjoyed underwater in a horizontal position, not on the surface in a vertical position......

Dive Dive Dive, have fun, be safe, and let every dive be a learning experience.

[k ellis]

or the zeagle ranger ltd jr. ;)

[BKP]

And, then there's the Zeagle Zena... The women I know that have it, love it...

Zena - Recreational BCs - BCs - Zeagle Dive Systems (http://www.zeagle.com/showproduct/4/Zena/)

[mike1010]

I put my kid brother in a oxycheq travel plate (soft) and an old travel wing we had, with a hog harness it works perfectly and he is same size. He uses his in Monterey and on vacation and loves it. Plus he's never going to outgrow it.

[*dave*]

As a kid, he's going to do what kids do: GROW. There's only one BCD I know of that will grow with them and be just as suitable at any stage of that growth. "She'll grow into it" doesn't work well for scuba gear and during the initial training phase for diving, fit is absolutely critical. Bad fit can manifest as an entire slew of symptoms and hamper a student's ability to progress, as well as hinder an instructor's ability to accurately assess an issue. I see kids get into this as Jr. Open Water Divers and typically watch the parents bleed money as the kid grows out of each BC. While all styles will have a range of adjustment in the straps, the material in the unit is fixed and only optimal for those who fit in a very narrow range of adjustment.

A Backplate and Wing BCD is modular, so you could upsize the plate when she eventually grows enough to need a larger plate. As she grows, the harness is adjusted to provide a perfect fit and there is no compromise in performance. The system can be had for less than the Lady Hawk, is more durable and has many other advantages I won't go into here.

The downside of the system has to be the number of uninformed opinions casting it as a technical rig. You have lots of options in the Bay Area, I'd put some feelers out by posting in the regional forums : (LINK) (http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/norcal/) for a good local dive shop that knows and has instructors who dive the system.

If I were putting my crumb grabber into this, I would fit them with a Backplate/Wing system. :dontknow:

[halemanō]

While I can't say exactly for Monterey, based on other answers above I will say...

I know plenty of 95 lb teenagers who grew in to 3-4 inch taller 115 lb women, and the same BC worked both as teenager and as woman.

Did she like the BC she trained in? Has she used other BC's than the one she trained in? How proficient a diver is she in the BC's she has used?

[Jim Lapenta]

I agree with Dave about the growing part. And The BPW is a good choice as it will alllow her to get some weight off the weightbelt that will be good for Bay Area diving in cold water that will require a heavy suit.

Someone also recommended the Zeagle Express Tech. This is also an excellent suggestion as it is modular as well but without the hard steel plate. Retails for around 250 for the basic one and if you add 3 or 4 d rings, a crotch strap, and a weight pocket to each cam band you can configure it to be the same as a BPW weighting wise. I've done this with mine and with the ones several of my students own.

I'd never recommend a BC like the ladyhawk,or any jacket bc unless you get one used for 50-75 bucks for any younger person. She may grow out of it in two years or perhaps less and you've just spent a great deal of money. The BPW or Express tech will be cheaper at the outset and in the long run for you and her as both should last a lifetime with reasonable care.

And as others have said back inflates do not face plant a diver, improper weighting and over inflating the BC does that.

[ReeferBen]

My son is 4' 10" 100lbs and uses an express tech. It is ok. It is a bit big for him. I added weight pockets for him a well. Most of our diving is in cold water where he is wearing a full 7mm and I think in the end a small DSS plate and torus wing would have been better. He uses 8lbs but with the less material of a DSS rig, and 6lbs steel plate I think he could get away with no weight and have plenty of lift with a small wing. His express tech has the 35lbs lift bladder which he really doesn't need, and the deluxe harness which also added more then he needed. If I was going to do it again I would have gone the DSS route.

[halemanō]

Diving is always enjoyed underwater in a horizontal position, not on the surface in a vertical position......

This is a multi use sales pitch, that you and others have obviously "fallen for" and now promulgates as an urban myth.

[*dave*]

This is a multi use sales pitch, that you and others have obviously "fallen for" and now promulgates as an urban myth.
Gotta say, vertical and on the surface doesn't sound like a great way to spend a dive, but I've never actually tried it. :dontknow:

[halemanō]

Just last week as one of my regular client father / daughter teams and I were "ottering" out over a quarter mile from shore for one of their favorite dives, Dave had the biggest grin while he said "this is when I really feel I'm in Maui; watching the sun rise oner the shoulder of Haleakala, looking back at Keawakapu beach, South Maui and the mountain slopes.

It's part of the dive, it's over 20 minutes, it's not vertical or horizontal and this style of surface swim is done by divers of all BC types (or so I've read). Upright vertical at the surface is also part of many dives and done by divers of all BC types (or so I've read). On the 4th of July, before dropping on the Backside of Molokini, the whole group was bobbing vertical with big grins. Inverted vertical is also an enjoyed part of many divers dives, and most of my dives.

Definition of vertical - Merriam-Webster's Student Dictionary (http://www.wordcentral.com/cgi-bin/student?book=Student&va=vertical)


1 : directly overhead
2 : going straight up or down from a level surface
3 : of or relating to persons of higher or lower standing <a vertical social order>

Many of my most memorable dive moments have been just perfect in vertical body position; both upright and inverted.

I saw this pair of eagle rays from the surface, just above a 98 foot deep sand bottom, and asked my group if it would be OK for me to "dive bomb" for pictures. They unanimously gave a hearty yes! That 20 or so seconds powering straight down as fast as my free dive fins can propel me was pretty damn cool....

http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/data/500/P10100023.jpg (http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/138695)

http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/data/500/P10100036.jpg (http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/138696)

This "escort pod" circumnavigated my group at an anchor line safety stop, with everyone upright vertical in the water, easily rotating and grinning ....

http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/data/500/242682158_.jpg (http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/120156)

Nearly everyone in the group is happily vertical when closely inspecting this ~5' tall black coral ....

http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/data/500/P10102851.jpg (http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/112177)

Perhaps these air breathers were mocking us ....

http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_2968.jpg (http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/99958)

The OP's question is regarding Monterey diving. I find it hard to imagine not being both upright and inverted on pretty much every kelp dive. :dontknow:

I'm calling many of the cyber diving sales pitches nonsensical negative catch phrases. :shakehead:

[halocline]

If you want to talk about nonsensical sales pitches, here are two: 1)BP/W systems (or back inflate soft BCs) push your face forward at the surface. 2)BP/W systems (or back inflate...)force divers into horizontal position under water.

The bubble of air in a wing or jack BC cell is going to rise to the highest point under water, and because it's usually a pretty small bubble, has very little impact on trim. That's determined primarily by weight distribution, and to a lesser extent, BC fit and stability.

To the OP, I'd definitely let your daughter try a rigid plate/hog harness/small wing. I bet she likes it. I've seen lots of kids in OW classes with jacket BCs that are far too loose really have a hard time both at the surface and in the water.

[*dave*]

The OP's question is regarding Monterey diving. I find it hard to imagine not being both upright and inverted on pretty much every kelp dive. :dontknow:


That's the problem, some divers don't understand your content is often a product of your imagination and assume it's based on experience. :dontknow:

Nice pics.

[halemanō]

Nice pics.

Thanks. :D

So *dave*, are you saying that always diving horizontal is the best way to dive kelp?

Part of what I imagine is due to what I have seen in nearly every movie and TV footage that has underwater scenes. I lived in the Monterey Bay area for 3 years, just prior to going to Florida to become an Instructor; nobody was preaching the "always horizontal" BS in '99. Even in my cave training, for the first part of Peacock it seems non vertical works, because my Instructor did it "parallel to the bottom" not horizontal, and entry/exit at Olsen Sink (sp?) was definitely not horizontal. :dontknow:


That's the problem, some divers don't understand your content is often a product of your imagination and assume it's based on experience. :dontknow:

[halemanō]

I've seen lots of kids in OW classes with jacket BCs that are far too loose really have a hard time both at the surface and in the water.

So, questions have been asked in this thread, regarding the diver in question's training BC and any other BC's she may have used, with no reply.

Yet you seem to use your somewhat hyperbolic "bad OW class BC fit" observations of kids that might "really have a hard time both at the surface and in the water" (at depth?) even with a good fit BC, as the basis for a bet. :dontknow:

[*dave*]

So *dave*, are you saying that always diving horizontal is the best way to dive kelp?


I can't recall ever saying that, but I did say vertical and on the surface doesn't sound like much of a dive.

[halocline]

So, questions have been asked in this thread, regarding the diver in question's training BC and any other BC's she may have used, with no reply.

Yet you seem to use your somewhat hyperbolic "bad OW class BC fit" observations of kids that might "really have a hard time both at the surface and in the water" (at depth?) even with a good fit BC, as the basis for a bet. :dontknow:

I really don't understand what you are objecting to or trying to say, but I do think that your opinion of jacket BCs vs BP/W systems is completely worthless, because as you have admitted before, you've never dove with a BP/W. Yet for some strange reason, you seem to have some bizarre drive to continually post on the subject, often with ridiculous ideas, such as the one that a jacket BC allows divers to dive in any position they want while BP/W systems do not. What's it to you?

The continually adjustable webbing harness and rigid plate allows for an excellent fit for practically any diver. Jacket BCs rarely fit as well or offer comparable tank stability. And BTW, that's from experience.

[Shark Bait!]

It is amazing how a person can ask for recommendations for a BC, and is open to all suggestions as he never specified to any particular brand or type, and there is always 1 yaa hoo who has to derail the topic.

As for halemano's rant on vertical diving.. LOL! I'm sorry but i never said anything about a diver should start, end, or all areas in between stay horizontal. I understand that there are some instances where a person will be vertical while diving, rather it be sight seeing, entering/exiting a cave or wreck, or simply wanting to have a broader field of view. That doesn't change the fact that still the majority of your diving "under water" is horizontal unless you tend to teach your classes differently. maybe you should start a new PADI specialty course: Vertical Diving

I live in FL so i shore dive alot, and i can accept the fact that i will be vertical at the surface when i start my decent, or on a boat dive waiting to be picked up or for my buddy to jump in. But that very short time frame doesn't warrant me to want to use a jacket style 40+# BC for the simple fact that it will float me out the water up to my chest. I enjoy my diving and good trim makes diving all the more fun. The only way i can see a person doing the majority of any dive vertical is maybe drift diving, since you are just going with the current.. :dontknow:

The OP asked for recommendations and you have yet to post something of any use other then your super uber personal experience with vertical diving and surface swimming. I recommended the Zeagle Express Tech because it is really a great functioning BC. Versatile, functional, minimal and very durable. And for the price, it is really a great kit to get for a child, who will grow, or adult if you don't know if it is even something they will continue to do for the rest of there lives, but if they do this rig will grow with them or they can simply upgrade. I got this for my 16 yr old son last yr which has grown 2" and gained 15#. Bought $10 worth of web harness and waaallaa a perfect fit.

To the OP, there is no right decision when making gear choices, there is only the right option for how you dive know and the amount of knowledge you have at the time. Wants, environments, and needs change, as they change so does your "right" decision for what is best for you. When buying gear for your child you want to get the safest most versatile gear for them. Do your research and get what is right for you.

[cgvmer]

To the OP.

I purchased dive gear for my daughter age 10 and my son age 15 both were fitted with Dive Rite Transpacs. My daughter is now 13, son now 18, her DR Transpac is a size M and through normal adjustments still able to wear and my son's size L is getting a little tight, but that has to do with the 4 inches he grew this past year. The best part about these was the cost, as they both were ebay purchases at deep discounts. I suspect my son and daughter will soon swap and I'll sell the smaller one.

[BVickery]

I think the common recommendation is either get the usual BCD's used or a BP/W type of setup (actual BP/W, Transpac, Zeagle) that allows for a great amount of adjusting. One of the main reasons I am going to a BP/W system over a traditional BCD is the amount of weight I have been dropping. Given I try to buy good gear, I am going to save myself a lot of money in that I only have to worry about replacing/adjust webbing.

Best of luck to you and hope you have a lot a great dives with your daughter.

[halemanō]

I have waited over a week for the answers to my questions of the OP regarding the BC experience of the diver we would recommend equipment for, and since those answers have not been posted, now I will address other's subsequent posts;


It is amazing how a person can ask for recommendations for a BC, and is open to all suggestions as he never specified to any particular brand or type, and there is always 1 yaa hoo who has to derail the topic.

As for halemano's rant on vertical diving.. LOL! I'm sorry but i never said anything about a diver should start, end, or all areas in between stay horizontal. I understand that there are some instances where a person will be vertical while diving, rather it be sight seeing, entering/exiting a cave or wreck, or simply wanting to have a broader field of view. That doesn't change the fact that still the majority of your diving "under water" is horizontal unless you tend to teach your classes differently. maybe you should start a new PADI specialty course: Vertical Diving

I'm sorry but you did type ...


Diving is always enjoyed underwater in a horizontal position, not on the surface in a vertical position......

If you had typed a more "open to all suggestions" sentence, YOU would not have derailed the topic. :shocked2:

I just gave a few examples to show that YOUR use of the words "always" and "not" without at least the qualifier "for me" make your above and previously quoted statement quite untrue.


That doesn't change the fact that still the majority of your diving "under water" is horizontal unless you tend to teach your classes differently. maybe you should start a new PADI specialty course: Vertical Diving

Here again, your choice of words typed makes the statement quite narrow in scope, bordering on the tunnel vision usually described as rectal inversion.

The majority of MY diving underwater is not "horizontal" and I do not teach MY classes with a final goal of "diving horizontally." I think the horizontal BS "fad" is due to a very small fringe element of diving that has become overpoweringly loud on internet forums; a cyber diving construct if I may be so bold.

I teach my divers to "most of the time" have their nose lower than their knees. You argue like a candidate for office; painting anything not horizontal as vertical. :shakehead:

[halemanō]

I really don't understand what you are objecting to or trying to say, but I do think that your opinion of jacket BCs vs BP/W systems is completely worthless, because as you have admitted before, you've never dove with a BP/W. Yet for some strange reason, you seem to have some bizarre drive to continually post on the subject, often with ridiculous ideas, such as the one that a jacket BC allows divers to dive in any position they want while BP/W systems do not. What's it to you?

I really don't understand how you didn't notice that I was simply working with the information given, and not given, to us by the OP, and trying to lead the OP to give us more information to work with.

If the OP had typed that the certified diver in question had struggled in her OW class due to a badly fitting vest BC, then your "somewhat hyperbolic observations" might have seemed more on topic, IMHO.

In this thread I am pretty sure I have made no pro or con statement with regards to any style BC, so you bringing up your somewhat "offended" version of your sadly ignorant comprehension of my opinions with regards to vest BC's vs BP/W systems seems again like something from a candidate for office. :shakehead:

Please quote posts of mine outlining MY OPINIONS of vest BC's vs BP/W systems that you deem completely worthless due to my only having other than vest BC experience in SeaQuest Balance BI BC and Draeger Dolphin BP/W-ish BC.

Please quote any post of mine where I typed that "a jacket BC allows divers to dive in any position they want while BP/W systems do not."

I am of the opinion that you will find no such posts by me, unless perhaps you "snip" something out of context like has been done many times before. :dontknow:



To the OP, I'd definitely let your daughter try a rigid plate/hog harness/small wing. I bet she likes it. I've seen lots of kids in OW classes with jacket BCs that are far too loose really have a hard time both at the surface and in the water.So, questions have been asked in this thread, regarding the diver in question's training BC and any other BC's she may have used, with no reply.

Yet you seem to use your somewhat hyperbolic "bad OW class BC fit" observations of kids that might "really have a hard time both at the surface and in the water" (at depth?) even with a good fit BC, as the basis for a bet. :dontknow: