Water and Air in my wing

I just completed my AOW this weekend, so I am definately not an experienced diver, so please be nice! I bought a Halcyon Infinity (30 lb with STA), which I have now done about 10 dives with. The wing is a continuous oval. I have 2 issues in regards to dumping air completely:

1) in my efforts to totally empty the wing, I seem to always end up with alot of ocean water inside the BC. When my technique improves, will the amount of water I am removing from the ocean decrease?

2) sometimes I have trouble emptying the wing on initial descent, which leads well-meaning instructors to throw more weight on me, which is awful, and I consider it my punishment for incompetent deflation technique. :depressed: More than half the time I manage to do it OK, so I am hoping that with concentrating on position in order to get that bubble to where it has to be, it will go towards 100% success. I have also had trouble kneeling completely still at a safety stop (when properly weighted) because I can't get real negative at the end of a dive, but I don't see that as a big problem because I won't be kneeling in the real world. I figure if I can stay at the depth, that's OK, precision kneeling is not a skill I worry about.

I know theortically quite well where the 2 dumps are (one at the butt end and the power inflator) and how to use them, it's just sometimes it just doesn't work out. So I know that its not just being shown how to do it, there must be some subtleties that come with experience. Comments?

Thanks,
Linda

It is normal for water to enter the bladder of your wing during diving. It is the reason for emptying and rinsing with fresh water after the dive as part of your after dive maintenance.

There is a change in bouyancy during the dive as the tank with all that air is much more negative bouyant at the start than at the end, AL tanks actualy become positive bouyant. You could check bouyancy at the surface which should be neutral. Weight for this as you should be able to hover in the water for your safety stop. Won't always be able to kneel in 5m of water for that safety stop.

BluewaterSail:

I just completed my AOW this weekend, so I am definately not an experienced diver, so please be nice! I bought a Halcyon Infinity (30 lb with STA), which I have now done about 10 dives with. The wing is a continuous oval. I have 2 issues in regards to dumping air completely:

1) in my efforts to totally empty the wing, I seem to always end up with alot of ocean water inside the BC. When my technique improves, will the amount of water I am removing from the ocean decrease?

Click to expand...

Yes. Right now you can't feel that your wing had been emptied and so you kept the deflator button depressed and water forces its way into the wing. Don't worry unless you fill up a significant portion of your wing with water. Everybody's wings have water get into them. Actually, if you don't have any water at all, then that usually means you're overweighted and need a lot of air in your wing to keep you afloat or buoyant.

2) sometimes I have trouble emptying the wing on initial descent, which leads well-meaning instructors to throw more weight on me, which is awful, and I consider it my punishment for incompetent deflation technique. :depressed: More than half the time I manage to do it OK, so I am hoping that with concentrating on position in order to get that bubble to where it has to be, it will go towards 100% success. I have also had trouble kneeling completely still at a safety stop (when properly weighted) because I can't get real negative at the end of a dive, but I don't see that as a big problem because I won't be kneeling in the real world. I figure if I can stay at the depth, that's OK, precision kneeling is not a skill I worry about.

I know theortically quite well where the 2 dumps are (one at the butt end and the power inflator) and how to use them, it's just sometimes it just doesn't work out. So I know that its not just being shown how to do it, there must be some subtleties that come with experience. Comments?

Thanks,
Linda

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Make sure that your body is nice and vertical at the surface when you raise the power inflator up to your head and deflate the BC. Reach for the sky. Just because you've been told to hold the inflator by your head, it doesn't mean that the inflator is actually high enough to 100% vent out. Lean back a bit if you need so that the air has a nice, straight path to follow from the wing through the corrugated hose and out of the power inflator.

Outside of classes, you shouldn't be kneeling anywhere unless there's a good reason for it (measuring something or taking photograph for some sort of scientifiic study). Sometimes I'd kneel on the sand if a newbie buddy were on the verge of freaking out and making that person kneel on a hard bottom helps him or her focuses a bit. Just make sure you don't kneel on surfaces that rip your wetsuit and skin. Usually, it's best to avoid kneeling altogether. And yes, kneeling in the ocean is a pain because the water movement tends to knock you all over the place.

Are you sure you are having trouble getting the air out of the wing, or are you just having trouble descending? Trouble descending is very common. Several things contribute to it: First off, it isn't natural to go underwater, so people tend to kick at the surface. Just because you let the air out of the wing doesn't mean you're going to sink, if your feet are pushing you back up. In addition, many folks hold a lot of air in their lungs -- you have to EXHALE, and then exhale some more, to sink. There's a timing issue there, too -- if you exhale as you push the button to empty your wing, about the time your face goes into the water, you are going to have to INHALE. And then you float! It works better to INHALE as you push the button, and then as your face gets to the water, exhale sharply and hold it. This will encourage you to continue underwater.

Shalom your post sounds so humbly funny

You've acquired, fantastically lifetime gear

It however won't take a lifetime to sort out
your currently valid issues because you are
100%


Helpful? huh?

That's just me.

Linda,
Both fnfalman and tsandm offer good advice. I will just add that if you are one of those who inadvertently kick while trying to descend you can try crossing you legs(at the ankles) during initial descent and you can just slowly slowly slowly let the air out while trying to descend(if the dive conditions allow this). Practice is really the best way to perfect it. The need for additional weight during your safety stop is very common for many divers(as I am sure you know) especially if you have had a long dive and have a small amount of air left. As you get more experience you will be able to accurately determine how much weight you will need for each planned dive. Again this is an experience issue and practice is really the best way to perfect it. HTH

Cheers,
Roger

TSandM:

Are you sure you are having trouble getting the air out of the wing, or are you just having trouble descending? Trouble descending is very common. Several things contribute to it: First off, it isn't natural to go underwater, so people tend to kick at the surface. Just because you let the air out of the wing doesn't mean you're going to sink, if your feet are pushing you back up. In addition, many folks hold a lot of air in their lungs -- you have to EXHALE, and then exhale some more, to sink. There's a timing issue there, too -- if you exhale as you push the button to empty your wing, about the time your face goes into the water, you are going to have to INHALE. And then you float! It works better to INHALE as you push the button, and then as your face gets to the water, exhale sharply and hold it. This will encourage you to continue underwater.

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This is an awesome tip to help those who have issues on descent because of that natural " I need to take a breath" before going underwater. Thanks for the idea.

Lots of great advice here.
I have my own routine for descending from the surface as quickly as possible when I'm in rough seas.

As soon as possible I hold my inflator hose up high while holding the purge/inflator button down.

As my mask enters the water I release the purge button and I tuck-roll & rotate into an inverted position (face down) extending my legs once I'm completely inverted and exhaling.

What this accomplishes is that your leg weight will further assist your initial descent, as my legs reenter the water I begin kicking for the bottom while simultaneously purging any remaining air using the rear lower purge/dump valve which at this point is the point closest to the surface.

Just an option to consider, I am not an instructor by any stretch of the imagination.



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Thank you everyone for your thoughtful replies! I am going to try out a couple of the suggestions next time I am in the water, and I am sure that I will have more consistant decents. I am going to be taking Primer in the beginning of August, and want to be able to concentrate on the material, and not be distracted by clumsy basic basic skills!

I am glad that the water in the wing is not an issue. Its just not something I have heard mentioned much before, or that I noticed when I was renting regular BCDs.

davetowz:

This is an awesome tip to help those who have issues on descent because of that natural " I need to take a breath" before going underwater. Thanks for the idea.

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+1, I learned this technique early on reading SB. I also turn over to the sky diver profile/position once I get under, maybe just a tad head down to see where I'm going and use the butt dump.