My newbie brother-in-law

Looking for advice on how to handle an overconfident newbie (my brother in-law).

Actually I don't know if he is overconfident, but he apparently is not interested in more scuba training.

Anyway, he was certified 2 years ago in Dominican Republic. He dives once a year. Has approximately 10 dives to date including his 4 cert dives. Last year in Cozumel he cancelled his AOW class despite my recommendations against so. In Cozumel he panicked on a night dive, luckily without injury. He has more than twice run down to 200psi on his air while buddying with the DM. This coming November he has again decided against an AOW class.

I only have 95 dives so I'm no expert and I don't want to sound conceited to him. I'm trying not to bruise his ego which is why I'm trying to get him to take the AOW class, but he says he doesn't need to take the class.

I'm concerned about his safety and mine since I will be his buddy in November.

Refuse to dive with him because he's unsafe. Just because he's an apparent idiot doesn't mean you need to be one also.

He's responsible for himself, so should you be.

MD

If you are concerned about your safety diving with this dude (and I would be if I were you) you need to sit down and talk to him about the idea of diving as a buddy team.....

If he decideds he's and ACE diver and is not interested in listening to your concers, then lett him take his little trip in November all by himself out on the boat, and I suggest you drink some fine wine back at the bar and grub down on whatever the good food of the day is.

A question you need to ask yourself (and your b-i-l) is why he does not want to take the AOW class. If he is just not very interested in diving and is just planning on doing a few easy dives per year, just let him be. Taking a class (and especially AOW, which IMO does not teach much new skills...) will not do much to make him a good diver.

On the other hand if is truly interested in diving, but believes he already knows everything, he is a great danger to himself and his buddies. Since he apparently has already done a night dive (not "allowed" without AOW certification and usually not something uninterested newbies wanna do) I think he might be in the latter category. Here are some ideas:

- Subscribe him to DAN. Reading Divers Alert magazine will perhaps make him more aware that there are risks to diving.

- Find a dive center that requires AOW for certain dive and have them refuse your b-i-l and make him go on the "beginner dive", while you boast about the great "advanced dive" you went on.

- If you think he may be sensitive to it, go diving with a group where he is the only diver without AOW and have them tease him a bit.
ScubaRon

Maybe several times with different faces...?:geez:

We had a greenhorn on an advanced diving boat earlier this month off of Atlatnic Beach NC. Almost drowned twice, which would have been rough on everyone. Imagine coming back from a dive, climbing the ladder, stepping over the body... :crazyeyes:

This would be easier if he wasn't your brother-in-law. Can't say no, can't say yes - feel screwed?? I like Ron's suggesitons, except for the teasing part; I fear that'd backfire. :angry:

Where are y'all going in November? Could you steer him to shallow dives on a different boat, while you get on boats requiring AOW minimum? True, you don't learn all that much in AOW, but it still reflects and interest in geting better.

Remember - whatever problems you cannot avoid by not diving with him,
it'd be worse if you did dive with him, and he drowns!! :drown:

good luchk! don

Ronrosa,

I deal with over confident new people in my line of work all the time. Most of them are simply unaware of the situation they are putting themselves in. The average age of the people I deal with is about 19. At 25 I still often lack in the "life experence" department. SO....hear goes.

Have you tired sitting down with your in-law and expressing your concerns? You pointed out certain instances where things went less then ok. I would use this as a base for a seeing if your in-law is the unaware new diver or just a bad one with a hard head.

If you get the feeling that your in-law won't listen to you on land what makes you so sure your going to break through when the person is in a panic underwater?

Being roped into this deal due to family, concider your options. You mention a trip. If you have never dove there before and if your trip is going to consist of guided dives and you can't get out of going on the trip, try to buddy up your in-law with the DM. If all goes well no harm. If your in-law freaks I am sure any DM worth their weight belt would be able to handle your "overconfident OW in-law" Let the DM tell your in-law in the event that something should happen that you in-law is a bit "unwise and should seek more training" then it comes from an "Expert in the field and not just you"

Others have mentioned positive peer pressure...."get your AOW and come down and see something really cool" etc. A good tool. I use that one alot. In the end however, it is going to be your call. Can you live with yourself if something should happen to your in-law because you took them someplace they ought not have gone?

Hiding behind the "your not Qualified for these dives" is not an excuse. It in this case would be the truth, in the end I would rather tell someone I am not diving with you because I don't feel your ready if it's the truth rather then live with lieing to myself. I have used the line "I don't want to be the one to take you on last dive of your life" that usually gets peoples attention.

At work I just tell people not until your qualified and can prove you have the skills. Thankfully, I don't have to work with my family.

Missilman

Try to find out why he doesn't want to take the class.
It could be about money.

When people are already putting out $1000.00 or more for a trip, spending even more money can be hard. Maybe his wife a non diver(?) doesn't want him to spend more on scuba?


If this seems to be the case, ask him if you can make it a Christmas present.

He is my brother in-law and we vacation together, so I can't ditch him. Last year in Coz, the op did separate us 1 day to take me on the advanced boat. It was on this day that he had one of his low air episodes. He told the story to everyone laughing about it. I told him dead serious that it was dangerous and nothing to laugh about.

In November we are going to Dominican Republic. I've never been there, but I imagine we will be doing very easy dives. He is very interested in diving, but only gets to vacation dive once a year due to financial constraints.

What concerns me most was his panic on the night dive. That night he told his wife (my wife's sister) he thought he was going to die.

He cancelled last years AOW class because he said he didn't need it. This year I think he is against it because he is afraid of night dives.

I have confidence in myself, but I'm not a professional and I don't know how well I would handle a panicked diver especially one 50 lbs bigger than me. I figure in an AOW class he should get some special attention. Problem is getting him to enroll. I've "led the horse to water, but he won't drink".

I guess I have to forget about his ego and confront him. If he thinks I'm an arrogant ass so be it.

ronrosa once bubbled...

What concerns me most was his panic on the night dive. That night he told his wife (my wife's sister) he thought he was going to die. <snip>

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This is not a good thing by any means

I have confidence in myself, but I'm not a professional and I don't know how well I would handle a panicked diver especially one 50 lbs bigger than me. <snip>

Click to expand...

Possibly time for you to consider a rescue class???

I guess I have to forget about his ego and confront him. If he thinks I'm an arrogant ass so be it.

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Certainly the best way to go IMO...and the best thing for BOTH of you at this point

Bruise his ego. You're doing him a favor.

Tell him that, whether or not he gets advanced training, he needs to learn gas management and proper dive techniques or you will not dive with him, even if you are on vacation together. Hold him to it. Tell the boat that you won't dive with him.

Put it another way. Do you want to be the one to tell your sister that he's dead, or that he won't be joining you for dinner because he's busy spewing froth all over the emergency room?

Incidentally, night dives are not required for AOW. Our standard 5 is wreck, buoyancy, deep, nav and S&R.