The dangers of bailing?

Hi guys,

I'm a new diver, and am currently reading Kevin McMurray's Deep Descent. I just read a passage about a diver who was 110ft down and had to bail, who ultimately died from embolism. It claims that he was as good as dead as soon as he had a problem.

Is bailing generally dangerous, if you're making sure you're breathing out? Or is it just difficult to detect the appropriate rate? Or is 110ft too far to go before most people pass out from the lack of oxygen? Or is the DCS severe enough to kill you?

Thanks!

I don’t think it is reasonable to make a generalization about bailing. Bailing because you are already experiencing a major problem in deep water offshore is not the same a bailing in less demanding conditions because you don’t feel comfortable with the dive and choose to end it. In the case you cite, bailing was not the root cause of the accident — though probably wasn’t the most prudent reaction.

wings:

I'm a new diver, and am currently reading Kevin McMurray's Deep Descent. I just read a passage about a diver who was 110ft down and had to bail, who ultimately died from embolism. It claims that he was as good as dead as soon as he had a problem.

Is bailing generally dangerous, if you're making sure you're breathing out? Or is it just difficult to detect the appropriate rate? Or is 110ft too far to go before most people pass out from the lack of oxygen? Or is the DCS severe enough to kill you?

Click to expand...

Everything depends on nitrogen loading and your ascent speed.

If you're well within the no-decompression limit as calculated by either your computer or recreational tables (PADI, SSI, NAUI, etc.) and you ascend at the currently recommended speed of 30'/minute (or even the previous recommendation of 60'.minute), you should arrive on the surface unharmed or at the very least, in pretty good shape.

However as you get closer to or exceed the no-deco limit and/or your ascent speed increases, so does the risk of DCS. If you panic and don't maintain an open airway, you can easily be injured or die.

Although I haven't read it recently, I beleive the divers in deep decent were well past the no-decompression limit. In this case, a direct ascent to the surface is extremely risky and can be crippling or fatal. This is the big difference between recreational and technical diving. A recreational diver within recommended depth/time limits, doing what was taught in class can safely surface at any time.

flots.

There are some posts on Scubaboard about emergency escape from submarines which are done in practice.

So it's a known fact you can safely bail from 100 ft. or so depending upon the situation.

The question becomes, if you know you'll be dead if you stay on the bottom, isn't even the smallest chance better?

100 feet is a difficult depth to ascend from on a breath, but I'm sure some have done so.

As for DCS, it could be minor or severe if at all. At the end of the day you have a better chance recovering from DCS than drowning so you go for it.

If you start with a fresh breath and can get buoyant PDQ then you have a shot at it. Of course if you just exhaled then got nothing or you are delayed in getting off the bottom things go downhill very fast.

As usual it's all scenario dependent.

Pete

What you may not know about that diver who bailed from 110 feet is what kind of decompression obligation he had, when he did it. The essence of staged decompression diving is that you stay at depth long enough to accumulate enough nitrogen in your body that you can no longer GO straight to the surface without significant risk of injury or death. For someone in that situation to choose to "bail" means that something was very wrong where he was, something so bad he either couldn't or didn't think he could solve the problem underwater. Going to the surface under a major deco obligation is dangerous. Holding your breath while ascending from 110 feet is quite possibly lethal, even if you only do it for a short time.

"Bailing" from that depth is a poor last choice for most people -- the key is to plan the dive so that you don't run into a problem where you have to do it, and then execute the dive the way you planned it, and have enough skills to cope with the unlikely if it occurs. This is true even for no-decompression dives. Plan your gas!

It would be nice if our lungs and bronchial tree had nerve endings which caused pain when overinflated, but they don't. It would be very easy to get distracted and hold your breath on a rapid ascent and never realize you were incurring a fatal injury.

The simple fact is that is better to not have to bail at any depth than to so. Plan your dive properly. Dive with a buddy. Dive your plan, which will always allow sufficient air to ascend safely. People have had strokes and heart attacks while diving. Similar injuries are suffered when shoveling snow or just sitting in a chair. They are not unique to diving, but divers should be unique in being prepared to deal with these and similar issues under the extraordinary conditions presented by scuba diving. If you are losing sleep about the deep dive, emergency ascent scenario, consider a "Spare Air" canister, or even better, always make sure you dive with a competent buddy, stay close to them, and always make sure your equipment is serviced regularly and in good working order. Proper planning, equipment maintenance, and safe diving practices will minimize, but never totally eliminate, risk. My wife and I go diving knowing this, have hundreds of hours of bottom time, and plan to contiue diving for a long time (we are each 58 years of age now.) Don't "psych "yourself out. Just be a safe diver.
DivemasterDennis

Greetings wings it has been brought to our attention that Recreational diving and Tech diving are two very different areas.
In the Rec. diving world a CESA is the last resort to a OOA situation and we are all trained to do one in OW.
In the Tech realm we have no direct access to the surface or operate under a ceiling or overhead environment.
These differences are significant because the dive plans are vastly different and gas management paramount.

I really think the fundamental issue is to dive safely within your training and current experience level.
Plan your dives conservatively and stick to the plan.
If you need to bail out then do so following the appropriate actions for either type of diving.
A bolt for the surface is only a last ditch attempt and should be done so only for dire circumstances.
In the technical realm if your deco obligation is substantial it might be better to drown than suffer fatal DCS.
That statement is my opinion.

Proper dive planning practically eliminates these issues and short of a catastrophic event underwater we do advanced dives safely.
Many hours of training and preparation go into Tech dives and should be done so with caution and an awareness of the environment / acknowledgment of risk.
Recreational dives are done under the NDL / no decompression limit ruled by the safe dive practices that are taught in OW class.
At no time are you to exceed the rules and limitations of your certification level.
To do so puts you at a significant risk.

We plan rec/tech dives with bailouts in place or what ifs?
We simply plan what we are going to do if we loose gas and have to bail out.
You better be planning to deal with it or training to do so because it it does happen you will be ready and your buddy!
Last time I checked your redundant air in the Rec world was your buddy correct?
I'm not even going to get into the buddy bottle issue here.

Just thoughts and perspectives on this topic on Sunday afternoon.
Safe diving all,

CamG Keep Diving....Keep Training....Keep Learning!

I guess I need to know what "bailing" is. I assume it is dropping your weights and making a buoyant ascent. There was a time when all divers were trained to do this and it was not seen as a big deal. It is rather easy to control your ascent speed and keep it under 60 fpm by flaring and venting, in which case if you keep your airway open and you do not have a decompression obligation, you should not suffer any ill effects.