Spring straps revisited

[pipedope]

Here are a couple of pics of my Avanti Quatros with spring straps. The first pic shows the spring attached with a 3/16" stainless shackle from Home Depot (be careful to get the stainless one).
As you can see the pin is sticking out and likely to grab things.

[pipedope]

I squeezed the shackle to make it secure on the fin post and that is why the pin is sticking way out.

I then replaced the pin with a screw. The screw is stainless 10-32 x 3/4" also from Home Depot.

Ahh, that is much better.:)

[pipedope]

I will peen the end thread on each screw slightly to prevent them from coming unscrewed, after I am sure this is how I want them to stay.

Frequent inspections are also a good idea, as with all dive gear.

[JohnF]

pipedope once bubbled...
I squeezed the shackle to make it secure on the fin post and that is why the pin is sticking way out.

I then replaced the pin with a screw. The screw is stainless 10-32 x 3/4" also from Home Depot.

Ahh, that is much better.:)

Well. I know at least 2 guys who will be heading out tomorrow to buy screws. I have 3 pairs of fins done with those shackles and it never occurred to me to swap out the long pins for screws. Duh!!

Thanks PD

John F

[el-ninio]

they are about 3-4$ here, in marean supplay stores - about 10-15 times more expensive then the non-stainless ones.

[JohnF]

el-ninio once bubbled...
they are about 3-4$ here, in marean supplay stores - about 10-15 times more expensive then the non-stainless ones.

I pay $4.25 Cdn at home and I believe I paid just under $3 US in Ohio at Loews. I priced them at McMaster-Carr when I bought more springs and they wanted $18 for them. I didn't ask why the huge difference.

John F

[pipedope]

The stainless items cost about 10x the plated steel ones.

I paid about $3.75 each for the shackles and $0.77 for a 4 pack of the 10-32 x 3/4 screws.

I am glad I don't need to fumble with those buckles anymore.:D

[hab25]

I am just curious what is the point of doing this to your fins??

[Boogie711]

You'll never go back to crappy ABS straps ever again. Solid, secure, won't break, easy as heck to doff or don in the water...

... I broke the buckle on my Quattro's twice before I smartened up and made myself some spring straps. If you're curious, I know a guy on E-Bay who sells them for cheap. :)

[hab25]

well thanks
although i have never had any problems with the "crappy" abs straps but to each their own - what is the difference they just look like a spring with some rubber around to protect

[Boogie711]

They're a simple device... it is just a spring with a mechanism to attach it to your fin, a piece of line inside to prevent over-stretching and something to protect your boot.

But they slip on, one handed, in 1/2 second. And they're bulletproof, stainless steel, and won't break. The buckles on my old Quattro's used to be an algae trap - have fun going through a kelp bed with those suckers. Spring straps don't have that problem. Sometimes the buckles would also open in mid-dive. Mares tried to alleviate that by putting a locking mechanism on this years buckles... you just don't have that problem with springs.

[pipedope]

Is just more crap to mess with and was anoying.

Also, with the design of the adjustment mechanism I could not back thread the strap to eliminate the entanglement point of the rubber strap going into the buckle.

At least on the old jet fins you could thread the strap from the outside to the endside so that the tails end up under the strap and don't grab things. We were doing this in So Cal back in 1978 when I first got certified. It made a big difference in the kelp.

Spring straps don't dry rot and break like rubber straps.:D

[kingprawn]

I love the solution, but where did you get the springs?

[pipedope]

I don't have their part number on hand and I think it changed.
The paper that came in the package says,
"W.B. Jones Spring Co Inc.
140 South Street
Wilder, KY 41071
Phone 859-581-7600
FAX 859-581-7700

P/N ST641"

There are some older threads on the board here with more detail.

[5615mike]

pipedope once bubbled...
I squeezed the shackle to make it secure on the fin post and that is why the pin is sticking way out.

I then replaced the pin with a screw. The screw is stainless 10-32 x 3/4" also from Home Depot.

Ahh, that is much better.:)

Are you using Stainless screws? If so my Lowes and HD do not sell SS products. Guess if your diving all FW then you don't have to worry about that.

[pipedope]

Where are you?
Here in Florida, every Lowes and Home Depot I have been in has had stainless hardware. You have to look closely, it is usually either across the row or down the way.

They can order it for you, ask for the catalog next time you are in the store.

[5615mike]

FL..........I see. Well, I'm land locked in OK so they don't carry ANY stainless hardward here in those stores. I have found a small hardware store that I am going to check out today that says if they don't have the SS parts I need they can order it for me. I also talked to a guy last night on the phone with Stainless Products in NJ that was really cool and would send me some stuff if I can't find it locally but they usually only sell products by the case.

[pipedope]

West Marine does mail order.
I don't have the URL handy but a search should turn them up.

The shackle is 3/16" and the replacement screw is 10-32.

[Birdman]

When I set up fins with plastic posts with spring straps I used ss s-hooks. These are streamlined and when used with shrinkwrap nothing will catch.

[5615mike]

Almost have them finished. Found the parts I needed. Used S-hookes instead of the shackles. All I have to do is just size the internal spring keeper to avoid overstretching of spring. Can't wait to try these out. I know several buddies will have to have these when they see how easy they are to make.

[pipedope]

I used the shackles because that way I didn't need to shorten the springs I had.
With the S-hooks the springs were too long to have a good tension in use.

Just another trick you can use for a small adjustment.

[5615mike]

I thought about that as well. My wifes are probably going to be too long. When I do final adjustments for her fitting I will either have to use the shackles or cut down the spring. Since I have a much larger foot, size 12, those springs work great for me. Now I have some new boots coming and I hope that they will work well with my boots and my warm water boots. If not I will have to do something else or I might just have to buy some jets and move the Volos to tropical only duty.

[Birdman]

Not sure what the best technique is to cut down springs, but I use a dremmel with titanium cutting bit and then form the end using a vice grip.

[JohnF]

Birdman once bubbled...
Not sure what the best technique is to cut down springs, but I use a dremmel with titanium cutting bit and then form the end using a vice grip.

Here's a tip for protecting the shape of the spring when bending the end loops.
Force a slot screwdriver through the coils at the point where the bend will be thus creating an opening into which you can easily force a probe of some sort down the hollow centre of the spring. I use a large shaft phillips screwdriver. Then I can go to work on the coil(s) at the end to be bent at 90 degrees to the rest of the spring and the probe prevents any distortion of the rest of the spring.

My apologies to those of you to whom this is obvious. I, on the other hand usually destroy at least one item before the obvious becomes obvious to me. 8)

John F

[Birdman]

JohnF once bubbled...


Here's a tip for protecting the shape of the spring when bending the end loops.
Force a slot screwdriver through the coils at the point where the bend will be thus creating an opening into which you can easily force a probe of some sort down the hollow centre of the spring. I use a large shaft phillips screwdriver. Then I can go to work on the coil(s) at the end to be bent at 90 degrees to the rest of the spring and the probe prevents any distortion of the rest of the spring.

My apologies to those of you to whom this is obvious. I, on the other hand usually destroy at least one item before the obvious becomes obvious to me. 8)

John F

Yea, that's exactly what I do. I use the vice grip for grabbing two coils and making the 90 deg. bend once I have the philips head screwdriver inserted. I also use the vice grip to do minor shaping of the end coils after they are bent. This last step is likely not necessary with s-hooks, but I find it necessary when inserting the spring into delrin blocks.

[ENikS]

For few more enhancements you may want to revisit this thread:

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29296&perpage=25&display=&pagenumber=2

Look at all the pictures posted in the messages.

Eugene

[5615mike]

Birdman once bubbled...
Not sure what the best technique is to cut down springs, but I use a dremmel with titanium cutting bit and then form the end using a vice grip.

Man that tool is the best. I use it all the time but it was great for trimming the lug stop on the fins to use the S-hooks and works great on the spring as well. I am going to have to get one of those titanium bits though.

[smac]

If you have fins that won't work with a shackle you can get stainless steel welding rods from most welding shops and, with a little work, fabricate something to work with most types of fins.

[WVMike]

I finally got around to doing my spring straps. Thanks for all the good info here.

McMaster Carr has changed the part number on the springs, and you can now buy in quanities of one.

The new number is 3932K54 for a Long Type 302 SS Extension Spring 11" length, 1/2" diameter OD, .062" wire diameter. My springs were really only 10 1/2" long, I guess they measure them before forming the loops! $4.42 each.

I also purchased the shackles from them, they do have a less expensive SS model. It is Type 316 SS Cast Anchor Shackle with screw pin,3/16" and the number is 35355T13, cost $3.00 each. The screw pin is 10-32 thread, so that would be the size needed to replace it with a SS machine screw.

I have mine assembled and will "Test Dive" them tomorrow.

Mike

[rjens]

Thanks everyone for all the info. Just ordered the Shackles and Springes from McMaster Carr (thanks for the part numbers).

I've been reading about spring straps for months. Finally decided to go for it. This was the picture that really got my attention.

http://www.scubaboard.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=389992

With luck I will have them in place for my next dive (reservations at Pt Lobos on Dec 20th) so I won't have to fight with the latches on my Quatros ever again.:) :) :)

RJ

[sumguy]

Is there a part number for the vinyl tubing? I know I saw it somewhere, but...

[rjens]

They sell it by the foot at Home Depot. Same with the heat shrink wrap and stainless steel screws.

RJ

[WVMike]

sumguy once bubbled...
Is there a part number for the vinyl tubing? I know I saw it somewhere, but...

3/4" OD x 5/8" ID is the size needed, as stated available at Home Depot, or LHS (local hardward store).

One hint, cut it longer than spring, the spring I used was 10 1/2" long, I should have cut tubing 11" long, as the spring is installed and curves around the fin it becomes longer. I discovered this the hard way of course.

Mike

[sumguy]

Thanks for the tip, and the size.

[rjens]

Order came today. I put my spring straps together, talk about easy. I found some leftover black 5/8" drip system line and skipped the shrink wrap. The 3/4" SS machine screws were just the right size.

So...

3932K54 - Long Type 302 SS 2x $4.42 EA $8.84
Extension Spring 11" Length,
1/2" OD, .062" Wire Diameter

35355T13 - Type 316 SS Cast 4x $3.00 EA $12.00
Anchor Shackle With Screw Pin,
3/16" Material Dia, 530 Lbs Wll

3/4" SS Machine screws 2x $0.79 EA $1.58
Bags w/ 3 screws @ Home Depot

Poly Line $1.79

Shipping $4.00
Tax (CA Resident) $1.98

Total Cost $30.17

Tools required, pliers to pinch the shackels a bit tighter, standard screwdriver to tighten screws.

Total time -- under an hour

I put my boots on, tried on the fins -- feel great, can't wait to try them out.

RJ

[sumguy]

Ok, so I got my springs, shackles, screws, and tubing from McMaster-Carr today. Now, I'm waiting on my braided nylon line from Reef Scuba.
But, I've got a couple questions. What do I tie the line to? The screws? And how much slack should there be? I know its purpose is to prevent the springs from stretching too far, but how far is too far?
These are probably dumb questions, so I'll go ahead and add another: Is the spring held on only by the single loops on each end, the ones that are perpindicular to the spring?

[wetman]

You'll likely have to resize the spring and make a new perpendicular loop yourself. And yes, thats typically the only thing that is holding it on. (the steel in these springs is very strong, so you have no worries there).

I also wouldnt bother waiting on the line to get this going. In fact, i took my line out - its actually quite unnecessary. I had an extra spring around and stretched it to a permanent deformation. It took so much force to do that that you'd be ripping your fins appart well before you ever go to that stage. I've done an entire season with them like that and there hasn't been an issue except for fins that are much easier to put on then with the string restriction.

steve

[5615mike]

wetman once bubbled...
You'll likely have to resize the spring and make a new perpendicular loop yourself. And yes, thats typically the only thing that is holding it on. (the steel in these springs is very strong, so you have no worries there).

I also wouldnt bother waiting on the line to get this going. In fact, i took my line out - its actually quite unnecessary. I had an extra spring around and stretched it to a permanent deformation. It took so much force to do that that you'd be ripping your fins appart well before you ever go to that stage. I've done an entire season with them like that and there hasn't been an issue except for fins that are much easier to put on then with the string restriction.

steve

Considering doing that myself. The string can be a pain if not perfectly sized within the spring. I can't imagine over stretching those SS springs but I am glad to know that someone else has done the testing. Thanks

[jrg]

I just made my own jet fin spring straps this week! Thanks to everyone who posted how-to advice on scubaboard about this subject.

I used mcmaster-carr part number 9665K69. it's a 20" long 302 stainless spring, .054" wire diameter, without any hooks on the ends. $8.75 each + shipping. I bought 2 of them in case I needed them both, but I only used one. I'm not sure if I should keep the other one as a spare or eBay it or what. I got the 1/2x3/4 clear tubing at Lowe's.

Unfortunately it's too cold to go diving & try them out.

[tech3324]

sumguy once bubbled...
Ok, so I got my springs, shackles, screws, and tubing from McMaster-Carr today. Now, I'm waiting on my braided nylon line from Reef Scuba.
But, I've got a couple questions. What do I tie the line to? The screws? And how much slack should there be? I know its purpose is to prevent the springs from stretching too far, but how far is too far?
These are probably dumb questions, so I'll go ahead and add another: Is the spring held on only by the single loops on each end, the ones that are perpindicular to the spring?

I got my spring straps from "Boogie711" on eBay, and the caving line is simply a single loop that goes around both of the shackle screws. The length is approximately 150% of the relaxed spring length. That said, I also find the caving line completely unnecessary and a little bit of a problem to keep inside the spring. The spring tension is such that I can't imagine overstretching the spring enough for the string to come into play, so I'm going to remove mine.

BTW, I recommend the spring straps I bought if you don't want to make your own. They work great.

[Boogie711]

I got my spring straps from "Boogie711" on eBay

Now, I wonder who that would be?

For those who are wondering - it's nothing special. I get most (but not all) of my parts from those McMasters of hardware in quantity, and basically just charge enough to cover my costs and time. It's a hobby more than anything.

If anyone's curious, I just got a big new shipment of parts in (bulk order = slightly lower costs). I can offer them slightly cheaper through my oh-so-hi-tech website, just because I don't have listing fee's from E-Bay.

[AquaGuy]

I am trying to find a pair of spring straps for my Scubapro Twin Jets. Any ideas?

Thanks

AquaGuy

[sumguy]

How do you guys get your shackles so tight? Mine are as tight as they'll go without stripping the screws, and I'm pretty sure I could still pop them off the plastic posts of my Quattros.
Speaking of which, do all Quattros have a plastic tab or protrusion on the posts, between the fins themselves and the wide "cap" of the post? I'm not sure I'm doing a good job of describing this. I think the tab is there to prevent the ABS buckles from swiveling too far to the front. The tabs are preventing the shackles from tightening, I think. Do you file them down? (Or Dremel, since it seems everyone on this board has one but me.)
Otherwise, the springs are great. I tried them on in the living room with my cold water boots and two pairs of warm water boots, and they felt great with all. I'm just worried about the shackles.

[Boogie711]

You're correct - the only reason that protrusion is there is to prevent the buckles from sliding around. Get rid of it. And you're correct - a Dremel is perfect, but a file works too.

That will really help. Then take a pair of pliers and gently pinch them closed even further once they're on the hub.

Nothing shy of a monster truck is going to pull those suckers off now.

[mddolson]

sumguy bubbled :How do you guys get your shackles so tight? ..

Boogie is correct, file the rib down with a 3/16 inch round or rat tail file. Don't leave any sharp corners, these are stress crack locations.

1) Pinch them closed with a pair of vise grips.
2) If you want to go a a step farther,
run a thread die down the shank to increase the thread engagement, then pinch he end of the thread in a vise to damage it and prevent the shank from falling out, if it should come loose.
(this is likely over kill, a little nail polish will do the same)

Mike D

[pipedope]

to squeeze the schackle down tight. Then I replace the pin (now too long) with a 10-32 x 3/4" stainless screw.

Go back and look at the first few posts in this thread. :)

Have fun.

The spring straps are FAR better than the original straps on the Quatros.

[sumguy]

I have the 3/4" 10-32 screws, but now that I've squeezed the shackles tighter, the screws won't thread.
(You should be figuring out by now that I'm not the most mechanically-inclined person in the world)
I think I'm going to run some stainless steel wire through the screw holes in the shackles to secure the springs, unless anybody has any other thoughts?
Thanks for all the help so far.

[pipedope]

While you squeezed them?
By having the pin in it keeps the alignment.

You will probably have to (or get a mechanical type to) spread the shackles back out, put in the pin, resqueeze and replace the pin with the screw.

Some people can look at how the screw comes into the shackle and bend one or both ends just enough to allow them to thread together.

[rjens]

I finally got to try my new spring straps yesterday. I went diving at Pt Lobos and got to try the new straps out. Wow, what a difference over the latches on my quatros. I walked down the ramp carrying my fins by the straps, sat down off the end of the ramp slid my foot into the pocket and pulled the straps into place. 2 seconds each and they were on!!! It took a minute to get used to the way it felt on my heel (a bit tight), but it quickly felt very natural. After the dive, getting the fins off was almost as easy as putting them on.

Thanks to everyone on Scubaboard that posted how-to's, suppliers and part numbers.


RJ

[ScubaScott]

I second that. I made 3 sets of spring straps on the weekend.... They were so easy and looked so good, I impressed myself!

Thanks guys....

SS

[Rick Inman]

Just finished putting spring straps on my Atomic fins last night and I couldn't have done it without all your help! I couldn't find the correct size springs at first, but then a guy suggested using the springs for screen door replacement. Perfect. A little long, but no problem cutting them to size using all your advise. I used the heat wrap over the shackles with the 10/32 screws. Nice and neat. The only issue I had was sliding the tubing over the springs. The fit was so tight that I had trouble sliding it all the way over. So, a little Pam cooking spray into the tube and it slipped right down.
Thanks to PipeDope and all the others for the help!

[WreckWriter]

Screen door springs are likely not stainless, maybe not even a decent grade of steel. My guess is you'll have corrosion issues.

WW

[Rick Inman]

Screen door springs are likely not stainless, maybe not even a decent grade of steel. My guess is you'll have corrosion issues.

WW
Humm... I thought the box said they were SS, but I'll check it out. Thanks.

[standrod]

Just finished putting spring straps on my Atomic fins last night and I couldn't have done it without all your help! I couldn't find the correct size springs at first, but then a guy suggested using the springs for screen door replacement. Perfect. A little long, but no problem cutting them to size using all your advise. I used the heat wrap over the shackles with the 10/32 screws. Nice and neat. The only issue I had was sliding the tubing over the springs. The fit was so tight that I had trouble sliding it all the way over. So, a little Pam cooking spray into the tube and it slipped right down.
Thanks to PipeDope and all the others for the help!

Rick,

Were the shackles tight enough for your Atomic fins? I noticed post on my Atomics are a little smaller in diameter than my other fins.

[Rick Inman]

Rick,

Were the shackles tight enough for your Atomic fins? I noticed post on my Atomics are a little smaller in diameter than my other fins.
A little small, yes, so I really had to clamp them down until the ends were close enough, then buy a shorter screw. But it was the smallest shackle I could find locally. Make SURE you leave the post that comes with the shackle in while slowly squeezing to size, as others have instructed. Anyway, not a big deal and it works great.

[CALI68]

Pipedope, Question: Does the (your) clip rotate around the fin peg? That would be the ultimate! The problem with the Apollo C-Strap or the Mantas for example is that they are set in one position. That's the only thing buckle systems have on springs they rotate to fit the angle at which you tighten the strap on your ankle.

[Boogie711]

Yes, they rotate. Pipedope and I use the same design. But you don't really want it to spin around freely, because they're clamped down over the peg pretty tight. But you can easily set them into the position that's most comfortable.

[CALI68]

Cool! Thanks.

[glbirch]

Pipedope, saw this thread for the first time today, and I've been kicking myself ever since. Now I can use my spring straps and keep my Avanti Quattro's.

Thanks for sharing this!

[pipedope]

I did originate the switch to a simple SS screw to replace the shackle pin.

I did spend a few minutes taking the pictures and posting them.

I like the Quatros but never did like the buckles. With the spring straps they are great.

Have fun.

[Tiny Bubbles]

I just made some spring straps for my jet fins, and I'm working on some hockey-puck blocks now. I used a drill press vise to hold the puck under the power miter saw so I didn't lose any digits. When I got a block cut out, I chucked it in the lathe to drill the 1/2" hole as close to center as can be. They're not done yet but what do you guys think so far? I've still got to cut out 2 more blocks, drill some holes, cut some slots, get some stainless screws, & shape the outsides... But I've got the rest of winter so I'm in no hurry.

-tiny

[DA Aquamaster]

I could not find suitable SS anchor shackles anywhere including Mcmaster Carr, but I did manage to find a way to use the existing buckles instead.

I carefully pried the retaining pin out of the buckle and then inserted the spring with a spacer on each end (made from 7/32" automotive vaccuum tubing) onto the pin and pressed it back into place in the buckle assmbly.

[DA Aquamaster]

A few of us got together last weekend and put together some finstraps for our jet fins.

The choices for the blocks were brass, aluminum or nylatron and I chose the latter. Lightweight like alumiunum but with no potential for disimilar metals corrosion. It was also very easy to mill. Stainless steel TIG wire was used to hold the assembly together and the holes in the fins were lined with brass tube to distribute the load better.

[rjchandler]

to those of you who are assuming that your springs won't stretch permanently and are removing the cave line. I don't have the link, but the guy who posted instructions on how to make these suckers several years ago emphasized that "you will" stretch the springs if you don't use the line. I think it has to do with "memory" rather than the strength of the spring?

Screen door replacement springs from the hardware store WILL rust and WILL stretch after a week in say Bonaire. :54:

[wetman]

to those of you who are assuming that your springs won't stretch permanently and are removing the cave line. I don't have the link, but the guy who posted instructions on how to make these suckers several years ago emphasized that "you will" stretch the springs if you don't use the line. I think it has to do with "memory" rather than the strength of the spring?

Screen door replacement springs from the hardware store WILL rust and WILL stretch after a week in say Bonaire. :54:

Me and my main dive buddy have had them off for the whole season now and no stretch. Just as good as the day they went on. And even in the event that there was a stretch, its really not a problem to snip a half inch or so to tighten them up again. The inconvenience of the string made it well worth snipping it out. Lets not forget we're also only talking about a chunk of metal worth not even 10 bux. If their lives were shortened for any reason to 5 years instead of 10 for example, its still not going to break the bank.

steve

[DA Aquamaster]

I used cave line in mine but I can also see where stretch may not be a real pressing issue if you left it out. The currently available springs from McMaster Carr have about twice the stretch as the old ones. I can see where the old ones would be very stretch prone, but you woud really have to overdo it to stretch the current ones.

[critterc]

I have been fishing and diving saltwater for about 25 years. Every anchor I have used had a galvanized shackle. Soooo to save money I am trying some 3/16 in. galvanized shackles I picked up at Ture Value. 4 was about $3.25 with tax.

[el-ninio]

try will rust, and big time (at least in salt water).

I could not get the SS ones here, and I have the rusty ones to prove it.

buy the again, you may be able to squeeze severl months use of them - or maybe even a full year. just make sure they are still in good condition when you go diving, and have a couple ready for replacment in your dry "save-a-dive" kit.

and I would oil them as well.

[DA Aquamaster]

I am looking into producing a small batch of the end fittings needed to add spring straps to your jet fins, turtle fins etc.

They will be milled from 3/4 inch black nylon and will look similar to the ones posted above. I don't know the production cost yet but I am wondering if there any interest out there?

[UWSojourner]

I ordered anchor shackles and springs for AA split fins and Mares Volo fins.

The anchor shackles don't work for the split fins because the post is too thin. So, I went with a SS S-hook (.141" x 1.5") from Home Depot. Worked great AND was easier to deal with than the anchor shackles. Cheaper too.

FWIW

[Boogie711]

I ordered anchor shackles and springs for AA split fins and Mares Volo fins.

The anchor shackles don't work for the split fins because the post is too thin. So, I went with a SS S-hook (.141" x 1.5") from Home Depot. Worked great AND was easier to deal with than the anchor shackles. Cheaper too.

FWIW

Hmmmm - I think you're using the wrong shackle, then... I have sold my spring straps to Atomic Aquatics users and have never received a report of the shackle not fitting. I don't like S Hooks because I don't think they're as secure, and they just don't look as nice.

I do, however, recommend it as a potential solution of the spring is too short. Using S hooks gives you an extra inch or so on either side.

[UWSojourner]

Well, I'm using the following shackle:

McMaster-Carr Tyupe 316 SS Anchor Shackle 3/16" part#35355T13

The split fin post is quite a bit narrower. I squeezed 1 shackle until the two sides where the pin goes met - the shackle was still too loose on the post. The approach worked well with the Mares Volos as the posts are quite a bit thicker.

I don't understand your thoughts on the S-hooks. the .141" hooks are rock solid and (at least on these narrower posts) are extremely secure once they were squeezed onto the post. Given that there is no potential for the shackle screw pin to come off, I prefer them on these narrower posts.




Hmmmm - I think you're using the wrong shackle, then... I have sold my spring straps to Atomic Aquatics users and have never received a report of the shackle not fitting. I don't like S Hooks because I don't think they're as secure, and they just don't look as nice.

I do, however, recommend it as a potential solution of the spring is too short. Using S hooks gives you an extra inch or so on either side.

[christopher1260]

Has anyone had any problems by using SS S hooks. This seems like it could be a cheaper and more readily available alternative to the shackles. I would just like to know if it is as reliable. Thanks, Chris

[pipedope]

I did my fins the first time with S hooks. Unfortunately this required me to shorten the springs.

When using the shackles I can use the springs the way they came.

For people with bigger feet and/or boots the S hooks might fit perfectly right off. I wear size 10 and dive mostly warm (ish) water so my wet suit booties are not real big or thick.

You can also use stainless steel wleding rod to make the connection but this is usually more work.

[el-ninio]

I am looking into producing a small batch of the end fittings needed to add spring straps to your jet fins, turtle fins etc.

They will be milled from 3/4 inch black nylon and will look similar to the ones posted above. I don't know the production cost yet but I am wondering if there any interest out there?


But what about using it (see deatails earlyer in this tread and in theDecoStop)?

I've been using them for some time now, and they work very well. The big advantage of this design is that you do not need to replace the existing hardware. The original SS backes are very stable and will not break or bend, and the blastic part has bery little force actually applayed to it, so you don't have to use Delrin(tm).

( I will be glad to send you photos and precise sizes, as long as you can deal with metric mesurments :-))

[Naby]

I am looking into producing a small batch of the end fittings needed to add spring straps to your jet fins, turtle fins etc.

They will be milled from 3/4 inch black nylon and will look similar to the ones posted above. I don't know the production cost yet but I am wondering if there any interest out there?

I would be interested DA, let me know when you find out a production cost and how many can be produced for that amount.

[rjchandler]

The SS hooks have an entanglement potential if you like to microanalyze these things. Its difficlut to squeeze the eye completely shut.

[unfix8r]

Just thought I'd contribute my .02 worth here... I finished my springs straps with everyone's recommendations, using ss shackles and 32 tpi screws, stainless springs and spectra cord in the middle to avoid overstretching. For the cover I used watermaker hose.

Taking the shackle and crushing it down makes a difficult time to get the screw in, which is fine with me... I don't want them to ever come out!

The difference is amazing. Boom, the fin's on, Boom, the fins's off. Very secure and much thanks to all who posted here. I am convincing my fellow divers to do the same with their fins as well.

[bcsean]

just a quick suggestion, thread the pin before you compress the shackle. Then just tighten it more once it's compressed. This guarantees it'll line up.

I had to remove the caveline from mine cause of my big feet. just wouldn't stretch far enough. No biggie. Also, they're a bit tight, so I might be trying the S hooks soon.

I will be convincing many people to change to these soon. My friends get pissed off when I get new cool gear like this that they've never heard of. I just laugh, yank on my fins and watch them messing around with their buckles.

[DA Aquamaster]

I would be interested DA, let me know when you find out a production cost and how many can be produced for that amount.

With set up, materials and production costs, the per unit cost is a bit higher than I thought and I need a minimum order of 40 to get a decent price.

So a set of 4 is going to run $10.00 which is about twice what I was hoping for.

Still at $4.52 per spring and shipping from Mc Master Carr, some stainless tig wire from the local hardware store for under a buck and a foot of clear poly tubing for maybe .59 cents, the cost of a set of spring straps would still be well under the $30-$35 E-bay price for a set of spring straps.

[pipedope]

The SS hooks have an entanglement potential if you like to microanalyze these things. Its difficlut to squeeze the eye completely shut.

There are tricks to how you close the loop.
Any jewler can show you how in less than a minute. Most any metal worker can also show you using tools and wire more of the size you will use on fins but the trick is the same.

[Naby]

With set up, materials and production costs, the per unit cost is a bit higher than I thought and I need a minimum order of 40 to get a decent price.

So a set of 4 is going to run $10.00 which is about twice what I was hoping for.

Still at $4.52 per spring and shipping from Mc Master Carr, some stainless tig wire from the local hardware store for under a buck and a foot of clear poly tubing for maybe .59 cents, the cost of a set of spring straps would still be well under the $30-$35 E-bay price for a set of spring straps.

So are you saying that you can get 4 nylon blocks for $10.00?

[DA Aquamaster]

So are you saying that you can get 4 nylon blocks for $10.00?

Yes but I have to order 40.

[unfix8r]

Just finished my first divemaster candidate class, and you should have seen it. My instructor looks at my fins, and says, "What the hell did you do to your fins?" Sheepishly I told him about scubaboard and mumbled something about making my own can light. .. finally mumbling that "they really work". He laughed.

Our entry is a steep gravel one, and while he's putting on his fins, (the same model as mine) He slips and goes under while showing how to put on the fins!!

He loses a fin and its floating away. So BOOM BOOM, I've got both my fins on, and recover said fin. Score one for the DIY guys!

Next project, a 2nd stage reg. All I need is some tupperware and a dental dam, and watermaker hose and...

[WVMike]

Yes but I have to order 40.

Count me in for four (4).

I have springs with shackles on my post style fins and can't wait to modify my Jets!

Just got back from Blackbeards and really appreciated them as I was just hanging around on the line watching others struggle to get their fins off.

Mike

[simbrooks]

Got all the parts i needed from Home Depot last night, except the springs! So to McMaster Carr it is, i tried all the marine stores, hardware stores and surplus stores i could, but no-one had springs in stainless of about that size or length or gauge. I think the parts cost me about $18inc tax from HD for 4 3/16" S/S shackles, the 10-32x3/4" S/S screws (4 in a pack), 3/4ODx5/8IDx10' clear PVC Tubing and a huge reel of #18 mason line (nylon) - the line was the only part i wasnt sure about. So with the springs from MMC and shipping i would guess around $31, but i can always get more parts and make some for my GF. Thanks for all the tips and helpful pointers!!

My only question though, is why not use bungee (shockcord) say 1/4" or 3/8" or so in size. I understand that the knot might be a little large, but is there any reason not to, doesnt it deform too much under load - i havent found this so far with bungee and you could still thread it through the tubing to get a decent surface area on your boot. I was just wondering as i walked around looking for springs whilst everything else was right there before me.

[WVMike]

So has anyone found any black PVC tubing?
I am thinking that would look good.

I also ditched the line in my springstraps, overstretching does not appear to be a problem.

Mike

[simbrooks]

Could have got clear or black tubing at Home Depot or other hardware stores. I am pretty sure i saw it there in 10ft wraps next to the clear stuff.

[simbrooks]

Just got the springs in, pretty quick shipping overnight on UPS ground from Atlanta to Orlando. $4 shipping is a bit for a few springs, but at least i have them now, will attempt the manufacture this weekend!!

[Marcos]

How are you guys bending the shackle so it's tight around your fin posts?

[simbrooks]

I had to put it in a bench vice, hold the fin by hand and try to squeeze the shackle around the post, took a few tries to get it right. I couldnt manage it with regular vice grips. After about 5mins a piece of trying to continue to tighten them and the occasional slip, i managed to get them tight enough to my satisfaction.

This was also done at 6am on my way out diving whilst passing work on a saturday morning, so very last minute. I am still loving these straps i made after 10 dives in the last months and should be fine for 10 more this coming weekend.

[JohnF]

How are you guys bending the shackle so it's tight around your fin posts?

I use a large pair of channel locks and squeeze on the flat tongue (the drilled area) carefully. I leave them so they will turn under pressure. If you crimp too much the holes don't line up properly. Some fins have a large enough rubber protrusion that no crimping is necessary.

Are you replacing the shackle bolts with ss screws to eliminate the protruding drilled and fllattened ends? They're much cleaner that way and there's less chance of entanglement.

JohnF

[pipedope]

I used channel locks to squeeze.

To keep things lined up, I install the shackle pin first, then squeeze, then replace the pin with a screw that won't stick out to catch on things.

[PRL]

I just replace the shackle pin with a ss 3/4 machine screw and using a good philips screw-driver tighten down untill the shackle bends to my satisfaction (about 3 threads show past the shackle)

[Tiny Bubbles]

Do you guys with the spring straps on the jet fins (and the like) really need the hockey pucks or other styles of blocks, or are they just for show? I made springs during the winter and never got around to finishing my pucks. Now I've made 7 dives with just the springs hanging on the original shackles without any problems.

-Tiny-B.

[pipedope]

To me a jet is a nozzle on the end of a hose.
It is used to move sand and mud and has the advantage of eliminating any of that pesky visability that just keeps distracting the diver from the job at hand. :D

BTW What is a fin?

Where did I leave my lead boots?

[mddolson]

Hi Tiny-B,
I don't know if the blocks are really nessessary or not.
The closed loops on the springs are certainly secure enough.
The only observations I can make is 1) the blocks keep the limit cord from falling out of the springs, and possible entanglement hazzard.
2) the Blocks also keep the springs nicely centered, they don''t flop around. (obviously not a nessessity)

I'm into makin stuff, so I machined acetal blocks for my Turtlefins

Mike D

[critterc]

I have been fishing and diving saltwater for about 25 years. Every anchor I have used had a galvanized shackle. Soooo to save money I am trying some 3/16 in. galvanized shackles I picked up at Ture Value. 4 was about $3.25 with tax.



Well, to date I have about 42 dives on my fins with the galvanized shackles (all saltwater) and no rust. Also I did not add the cord and have had no problems with stretching. Dives have been both dry suit and wet suit. I use the fins in our boat cleaning business and they are holding up quiet well.

[JohnF]

Well, to date I have about 42 dives on my fins with the galvanized shackles (all saltwater) and no rust. Also I did not add the cord and have had no problems with stretching. Dives have been both dry suit and wet suit. I use the fins in our boat cleaning business and they are holding up quiet well.

When I first decided to make my own springstraps I was too impatient to wait for the SS springs so I went out to Home Depot (and CTC for Canucks) and bought a pair of galvanized door closer springs for about $4.50 Cdn each, threw away the extra hardware and installed them on my fins with the SS shackles that I was able to pick up at many hardware outlets for about $4 each. The galvanized springs fit fine and are the right tension. Some were impervious to rust, even in salt water. Others rust instantly. I guess there isn't the same consistency in them that you get with Stainless.

The SS springs aren't that expensive and are worth the extra if only for the aesthetic value. Orange gunk oozing outa yer vinyl spring covers is unsightly. Although I haven't tracked it down there is apparently a Canadian source for McMaster-Carr stuff. Someone here may have the addy.

JohnF

[rickyd]

So has anyone found any black PVC tubing?
I am thinking that would look good.

I also ditched the line in my springstraps, overstretching does not appear to be a problem.

Mike
I didn't think the line in my spring straps was needed either, until I got hung up in some very thick kelp a Casino Point a few weeks ago, and pulled a fin off. Spend the next 40 minutes looking for it ( found it just before we all gave up ).

I tighened the springs a bit, but I also put in the line. Now, there's still enough stretch to get my foot in, but, the line stops the stretch so it will be pretty difficult to pull it out when I don't want to.

[critterc]

Well, to date I have about 42 dives on my fins with the galvanized shackles (all saltwater) and no rust. Also I did not add the cord and have had no problems with stretching. Dives have been both dry suit and wet suit. I use the fins in our boat cleaning business and they are holding up quiet well.


Just to clairfy I used the ss springs from McMaster-Carr, I just used the gal. shakles.

[pipedope]

steel is not bad on or near the ocean and will last a very long time if rinsed well and stored dry.

I like the 'pretty' factor of the stainless and the cost is not much when considered in the overall picture of my diving gear and my time.

Use what works and enjoy it!

[DSNORD]

Guys, I ordered some spring straps from Spring-straps.com and got them today. They are nicely made but are way too long for my 11 Rock Boot and brand new Turtles. I wear my boots all the way into the foot pocket, and the spring straps look like they need to be about 1 inch shorter to have a enough tension in them to hold the fin on, so I'm planning to send them back. I simulated wearing them at what I assumed would be the equivalent tension to the regular straps, and they dug into my heel significantly compared to the straps that came with the fins. Because the rubber ones have an extra strap above the main heel strap, I can pull them on and off in about 1 second even with a glove on. I've not tried them in the water yet, but I'm having a hard time seeing how a spring strap is going to be easier to get on and off or more comfortable than these seem to be. What gives? I'm reluctant to cut off the originals only to find that I hate the spring versions on my Turtles. I'm reluctant to grind up the mounting posts on my Atomic Liquid Blues to find that I hate springs on them too. Am I missing something here? Scott

[simbrooks]

I don't know if the blocks are really nessessary or not.
The closed loops on the springs are certainly secure enough.
The only observations I can make is 1) the blocks keep the limit cord from falling out of the springs, and possible entanglement hazzard.
2) the Blocks also keep the springs nicely centered, they don''t flop around. (obviously not a nessessity)

I'm into makin stuff, so I machined acetal blocks for my Turtlefins
After successfully making my spring straps for my quattros, i am now on the way to trying to make two sets for two pairs of jets. Are you saying that all i need do is mount the springs directly on the metal buckle part of the jets and use something to hold it in the centre of that buckle area? I have tried to look at the attached photos of jets that others have posted, but cant make out how you get those little blocks on the buckle, do you remove the buckle from the fin and thread things on from there? Please give as best you can a blow by blow of manufacture with these weird little buckles that jets have on them - i was ok with the quattros, that was a piece of cake, but i just cant see it with these buckles!

[Seabear70]

I took the quick and dirty route on my jets, but I just cut the springto ength, and used two pairs of needlenose pliers and bent the severed end into a lop I hooked on the buckle. It works for me, but there are probably better looking ways to do it.

[critterc]

I have been fishing and diving saltwater for about 25 years. Every anchor I have used had a galvanized shackle. Soooo to save money I am trying some 3/16 in. galvanized shackles I picked up at Ture Value. 4 was about $3.25 with tax.

Have been using my fines with the galvanzied shackles now for 5 months on the average of 8 hours a week. No rust and springs without band are holding up good.

[sauga]

Are you saying that all i need do is mount the springs directly on the metal buckle part of the jets and use something to hold it in the centre of that buckle area?

That's the way I did it. I used the McMaster springs and carved a couple of rubber spacers from a sanding block I picked up at Home Dump. As an added touch, I wrapped the spacers with rubber mastic tape (also from H.D.; the most expensive item of the project!)

[mddolson]

Are you saying that all i need do is mount the springs directly on the metal buckle part of the jets and use something to hold it in the centre of that buckle area? I have tried to look at the attached photos of jets that others have posted, but cant make out how you get those little blocks on the buckle, do you remove the buckle from the fin and thread things on from there? !

NO here's a picture of my Turtle fins and the machined blocks I made. The buckle slides into a 3/16 slot in the block.

Mike D

I'll post a drawing of the delrin block.

[mddolson]

I'll post a drawing of the delrin block.


Here's the spacer block I made.

I had 1" dia delrin rod so I drilled the 1/2 inch dia hole in a laithe.
You could use 1/2 x 1 inch block and drill in a drill press also.
I machined the 3/16 slots down the sides using a milling mashine. A quick and dirty way is to dill a 3/16 hole where the slots end and cut out the rest with a hack saw, then file to clean up. I added two screws at the corners and ss self tapping screws to secure the blocks so the couldn't accidentally pop/fall out.

best regards

Mike D

[simbrooks]

Lets just say i dont have any of those kinds of tools, so i might just give in and buy the ready made straps, will keep my spare straps for use with the shackles on another set of simple non-rubber fins ;) Thanks for the thoughts and plans.

[cornfed]

Lets just say i dont have any of those kinds of tools, so i might just give in and buy the ready made straps, will keep my spare straps for use with the shackles on another set of simple non-rubber fins ;) Thanks for the thoughts and plans.I made mine but a friend cut the delrin spacers for me. While it's fun to do this stuff yourself if you don't have the right tools it can be a real PITA.

[cornfed]

NO here's a picture of my Turtle fins and the machined blocks I made. The buckle slides into a 3/16 slot in the block.Actually you can attach the springs directly to the original strap buckles. dmdalton talks about doing that in is spring strap article,

http://www.atlanticunderwater.com/equipment/springstraps.shtml

[critterc]

I have been fishing and diving saltwater for about 25 years. Every anchor I have used had a galvanized shackle. Soooo to save money I am trying some 3/16 in. galvanized shackles I picked up at Ture Value. 4 was about $3.25 with tax.


got over 70 hrs in salt water now and not the 1st speck of rust.

[Chapel]

Made my first pair a weekend or two ago. Went the cheap route on my cheap US Diver fins to see if I like 'em and used the galvanized springs and S hooks(I know about the rust factor), but wanted to make sure I liked the fit and feel. Gotta say i am sold, now need to make the real ones :) for my good fins.

[el-ninio]

Here's the spacer block I made.

I had 1" dia delrin rod so I drilled the 1/2 inch dia hole in a laithe.
You could use 1/2 x 1 inch block and drill in a drill press also.
I machined the 3/16 slots down the sides using a milling mashine. A quick and dirty way is to dill a 3/16 hole where the slots end and cut out the rest with a hack saw, then file to clean up. I added two screws at the corners and ss self tapping screws to secure the blocks so the couldn't accidentally pop/fall out.

best regards

Mike D

you dont really need the screws - if you keep the distance between the bottom of the block to the begining of the slot right (10mm, if my memory serves me well), and you insert the block sanwiched between the top of the backle and the moving rod (you will need to insert it sideways and turn it 90deg - I've posted pictures here and in TDS in the past) - there is NO way the block will slip of pop.

I made mine with no more then a simple (1$) saw, a bench press and some filling (I used a dremmel, but you can do as well with simple sand paper). It's really not rocket science.

[Archangel]

I could not find suitable SS anchor shackles anywhere including Mcmaster Carr, but I did manage to find a way to use the existing buckles instead.

Dear DA:

That is BRILLIANT! Your thumbnail is so clean. . .I am tossing the SS rings and getting my prying tool.

Thanks so much for this post!

Tevis

[Gil57usa]

I will peen the end thread on each screw slightly to prevent them from coming unscrewed, after I am sure this is how I want them to stay.

Frequent inspections are also a good idea, as with all dive gear.
Instead of peening the threads on the screws, usa blue loctite. It will prevent them from loosening and you can stil get them apart with hand tools.

[Archangel]

Just a quick update:

Ocean tested without the nylon thread keeper. The springs keep constant tension on the back of my heel without any discomfort.

This is one of the coolest innovations on ScubaBoard.

Well done y'all,

Tevis

[costi]

I squeezed the shackle to make it secure on the fin post and that is why the pin is sticking way out.

I then replaced the pin with a screw. The screw is stainless 10-32 x 3/4" also from Home Depot.

Ahh, that is much better.:)
What department did you find the shackles at HD? Not sure what their intended use is (other than converting to spring straps). Thanks for the pics.Bob

[Wayward Son]

Anchor shackles are over with fasteners. If you find rope, you're there. SS 3/16" shackles are a bit over $2.00 each, the lowest price I've found.

[Wayward Son]

Price at Home Depot last night was $2.19 each for the shackles.

[TomP]

I squeezed the shackle to make it secure on the fin post and that is why the pin is sticking way out.

I then replaced the pin with a screw. The screw is stainless 10-32 x 3/4" also from Home Depot.

Ahh, that is much better.:)

My package of 4 screws turned out to be a package of 3 owing to some in store pilfering I failed to notice. Rather than drive the mile back to HD I decided to cut down the pin so it would be flush with the shackel. I then cut a slot across the center so i could screw it in with a small straight slot screwdriver.

[Divmstr223]

How does the spring feel on your foot? I like the rubber strap across the back of my heel cuz it's comfortable, but it certainly is more of a pain to take off. I usually keep my straps sinched tight on my heel too, just a preference.

so is the spring pretty comfortable and secure feeling? I wouldn't want the feeling of too loose, like my foot would slide right out of the spring. I'm always open to different ideas, just wondering if it would be worth it for me to try...

thanks ;)

[TomP]

How does the spring feel on your foot? I like the rubber strap across the back of my heel cuz it's comfortable, but it certainly is more of a pain to take off. I usually keep my straps sinched tight on my heel too, just a preference.

thanks ;)

I'm accustomed to cranking my straps real tight as well, which is why i always have problems getting my fins off. I used the 11" McMaster Carr springs and found them to be snug enough, without shortening, on my medium size Mares Quatros and size 10 Dive Rite dry boots. I did find the PVC tubing to be a bit slick though so I had the local shoe repair guy stich a couple of loops of 1 1/2" webbing which i slipped over the tubing. Also left a little tail on the loop to assist in doffing and donning - or at least look that way.

I also tried them with my caribbean boots. While significantly less snug they seemed okay for that application as well. Guess i'll find out on my upcoming trip to Provo.

[Divmstr223]

I'm accustomed to cranking my straps real tight as well, which is why i always have problems getting my fins off. I used the 11" McMaster Carr springs and found them to be snug enough, without shortening, on my medium size Mares Quatros and size 10 Dive Rite dry boots. I did find the PVC tubing to be a bit slick though so I had the local shoe repair guy stich a couple of loops of 1 1/2" webbing which i slipped over the tubing. Also left a little tail on the loop to assist in doffing and donning - or at least look that way.

I also tried them with my caribbean boots. While significantly less snug they seemed okay for that application as well. Guess i'll find out on my upcoming trip to Provo.

thanks Tom....ya know, I think I'm gonna give the springs a try. I'm not for sure if I'll make them (probably will) or buy them, but I'm very interested on how they'll work for me.....

:14:

[TomP]

thanks Tom....ya know, I think I'm gonna give the springs a try. I'm not for sure if I'll make them (probably will) or buy them, but I'm very interested on how they'll work for me.....

:14:

Making them is cheaper and more fun but best of luck either way.

[getwet2]

Just got back from Roatan where I was able to test out my new spring straps and I've got to say ..................... "SPRING STRAPS ROCK" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Thanks Boogie!:57:

[Silvertip57]

Until you've ditched the straps for a set of springs you don't know how comfortable fins can be.
:D Try it, you'll like it!

[amascuba]

I made my spring heals with an 8 inch spring from home depot and a couple zip ties for a total price of $8 for the pair.

I'll soon go back and put the shackles on there, when I find the right size, put nylon string on the inside to keep the springs from over stretching, as well as put some rubber tubbing over the spring to keep the spring from pinching me.

This is a cheap, quick, and easy way of doing it.

http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/data/1624/thumbs/cheap_spring-fin-tv.JPG (http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=48378) http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/data/1624/thumbs/cheap_spring-fin-sv.JPG (http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=48377)

[costi]

I'm accustomed to cranking my straps real tight as well, which is why i always have problems getting my fins off. I used the 11" McMaster Carr springs and found them to be snug enough, without shortening, on my medium size Mares Quatros and size 10 Dive Rite dry boots. I did find the PVC tubing to be a bit slick though so I had the local shoe repair guy stich a couple of loops of 1 1/2" webbing which i slipped over the tubing. Also left a little tail on the loop to assist in doffing and donning - or at least look that way.

I also tried them with my caribbean boots. While significantly less snug they seemed okay for that application as well. Guess i'll find out on my upcoming trip to Provo.
I also use the loop but at the end I put a male/female clip to each. Now I can attach the clips through a d-ring of my bc, and be that much more hands free while walking to the water.
Bob

[mnfsh]

I just finished my pair of spring straps and they do feel good. Only need a bit of Locktite and maybe some pull tabs on the back. Springs came from McMaster-Carr everything else from the "Depot".

30876

[mddolson]

I'D SUGGEST A 5 MINUTE EPOXY/or nail polish RATHER THAN LOCTITE.
I presume you want this to lock the screws in place.
Loctite crystalizes in the presence of water and falls apart.
It is not recommended in wet applications.

Nice job by the way.
Basic black, formal but always in style!

Mike D

[mnfsh]

I'D SUGGEST A 5 MINUTE EPOXY/or nail polish RATHER THAN LOCTITE.
I presume you want this to lock the screws in place.
Loctite crystalizes in the presence of water and falls apart.
It is not recommended in wet applications.

Nice job by the way.
Basic black, formal but always in style!

Mike D

Mike, thanks for the heads up on Locktite was not aware of this. There is a thread sealer I use in HVAC work known as NY-LOK aka "snot" that may be waterproof, I'll have to test it, always want to have the option of backing out the screw in case of a problem.

[dannobee]

Where did you hear that Loctite is soluble in water? We've never had a problem, and we use it quite a bit on boats. Here's the tech data sheet. According to Loctite it retains 80% of its strength in 50/50 Water Glycol (coolant) after 5000 hours of exposure at 87 deg C. That's good enough for me, as I doubt I'll be diving in 180 degree water any time soon.

http://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/262-EN.pdf




I'D SUGGEST A 5 MINUTE EPOXY/or nail polish RATHER THAN LOCTITE.
I presume you want this to lock the screws in place.
Loctite crystalizes in the presence of water and falls apart.
It is not recommended in wet applications.

Nice job by the way.
Basic black, formal but always in style!

Mike D

[mddolson]

Yes you are correct. I sould have been more specific.
It depends on which loctite product you are using.
Most people are using the "instant adhesive"(400 series) or "crazy glue" product available at the local hardware store.
These cure by giving off a small amount of moisture (H2O), and are not recommended in wet applications. They continue to crystalize and break down if immersed.

Mike D

[dannobee]

Yes you are correct. I sould have been more specific.
It depends on which loctite product you are using.
Most people are using the "instant adhesive"(400 series) or "crazy glue" product available at the local hardware store.
These cure by giving off a small amount of moisture (H2O), and are not recommended in wet applications. They continue to crystalize and break down if immersed.

Mike D


Whew, you had me scared there for a minute. I envisioned all kinds of heavy stuff falling off into the deep blue.

[DiveGolfSki]

So which Loctite product does work underwater?

[dannobee]

So which Loctite product does work underwater?


Use Loctite "Threadlocker," either blue 242 or red 262. Either one has proven 5000 hour exposure results. Although Loctite makes all sorts of chemicals, the 242 and 262 are well known as "the" Loctite products to use. I don't know about the 400 series that was previously mentioned, but I certainly wouldn't try anything but the red or blue as a thread locking chemical.

[ShoalDiverSA]

Assembled my spring straps last night. I bought a pair of 11" SS springs complete with tube webbing from a friend while on holiday last week (the DIY genes just won't stop!). I purchased the shackles (5mm/~3/16") from a marine supplies store and a roll of cave line from a rigging supply shop in Cape Town. (The roll of cave line was for reels and spools, not just for the spring straps!)

Removed the existing strap assemblies from both fins. I then filed down the plastic lugs below the posts with a set of pin files, so that the posts were as near to round as possible. This was probably the most time-consuming part of the process.

I measured the spring from post to post, and it looked like the 11" spring would be perfect as-is (size 10 shoe (UK)/XL bootie). Cut the cave line long enough to give me 13 to 14" plus ends for the knots. This seemed to be about right for the maximum extension for the spring in "normal" use. Tied a double fisherman's knot in the one end of the line. I then fed the other end of the line through the spring and attached the shackle through the loop and the spring. Tied off the other end with another double fisherman's knot. Cut and sealed the line ends with lighter. I then attached the second shackle through the cave line loop and the spring. Then I pulled the loops on each of the cave line taut and stretched the spring a few times to get the excess length of the cave line "seated" inside the spring.

I then repeated the above process with the other spring.

I attached the shackles onto the posts, which were then quite loose. They sprang (sprung?) off a few times, so I had to take care that I did not end up losing an eye(!). I used a vice to bend the shackles tighter onto the posts. It was quite tricky holding the fin to guide the shackle into the right position. I made small adjustments each time, so that I did not end up over-tightening the shackles. In the end, it feels like I have about 1mm clearance between the ID of the shackle and the OD of the post.

I tried out the first fin - it fitted perfectly! Very comfortable, easy to don and doff - and rock solid!

I repeated the vice procedure with the second fin and I was done.


http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q25/shoaldiversa/SpringStraps1.jpg
All done!

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q25/shoaldiversa/SpringStraps2.jpg
Top View

As you can see, I have the same problem as the OP with the protruding screws on the shackles, so I will be purchasing some stainless screws to replace these posts when I get a chance. I really tightened the screws using a shifting spanner, so they should not be going anywhere in the meantime. I also noticed on the web yesterday that 4mm shackles are available. They may fit even better than the 5mm shackles I purchased. They will have to be opened up a bit to clear the "mushroom" on the post and recrimped on the post, but they should work. They should also not have the problem of the protruding screw. If anyone tries them out, post your results.


http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q25/shoaldiversa/SpringStraps3.jpg
Side view (note the protruding screws)

My only regret now is that I didn't buy a few extra sets of springs while I was in Cape Town. I am pretty sure that other guys will be wanting a pair too, once they see mine. Although the OEM straps do their job, they really are fiddly. It doesn't get simpler than this.

This was really an enjoyable, easy DIY project. I recommend it if you want to get started in DIYing your own gear. Very satisfying.

Cheers,

Andrew

[ShoalDiverSA]

One thing that I failed to mention is the actual source of my springs. If anyone from South Africa is interested in making spring straps, you will probably run into the problem of getting hold of the right springs. Importing the complete spring straps at around $50 at an exchange rate of ZAR7.5/$ (and climbing) plus shipping is also prohibitive. To give you an idea, these straps cost me approximately $16 and some elbow grease.

I got mine from Monty Guest (http://www.scubaculture.co.za/), the Chairman of the False Bay Underwater Club in Cape Town. You can contact him at info at scubaculture dot co dot za.

Cheers,

Andrew

[ShoalDiverSA]

Went to the local fastener specialist yesterday. I purchased some 5x16mm socket head button screws and 5mm internal star washers. I removed the shackle pins last night and replaced them with the new hardware. They fit perfectly. The length of the screws is spot-on for the amount that the shackles have been deformed.


http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q25/shoaldiversa/SpringStraps4.jpg
How it all fits together

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q25/shoaldiversa/SpringStraps5.jpg
The finished product

This has turned out very neatly (IMO) and I would recommend using the materials I have mentioned for Mares post-type fins, as they are off-the-shelf components. They are also really reasonably priced. Even if 4mm shackles are used, the pins could be replaced with the button head screws as they give a much neater finish. In fact, the combo looks so neat now, that it would have been better aesthetically to mount them the other way round (screw heads facing up). But I'll be leaving that for the next pair I modify ;).

Cheers,

Andrew