When to use a pony

Hello,
I have the chance to purchase a one year old 19cf pony for really cheap even though I would need to purchase a new reg setup for the bottle. My question is when should one consider using a pony bottle? My dives are usually no deeper than 60 ffw and I continually check my gauges every few minuets for gas consumption. I am also very good at conserving air compared to the buddies that I normally dive with. Alot of my dives are done in Lake Erie on our own boat so we are most always on our own while diving. I never dive without a buddy and always keep him in sight and practice OOA situations so I am quite comfortable with the guys that I dive with. I usually carry a Spare Air but these are so small that taking it on a dive is no problem at all. Do divers carry ponies under 60 ft? or would the extra bottle be more cumbersome than just relying on my Spare Air and Dive buddy? I have never carried a pony before so I am really not sure of how the whole set-up actually attaches and how cumbersome it really is. I am thinking this would be more of a safety net for equipment failure even though I have a competent buddy with who I trust I like to be self sufficiant and extra air always seems like a good idea to me.

Thanks for any input,
Jon

There are a lot of different opinions. Most will agree to do what you feel comfortable with. For me-- 60' or shallower with competent buddies, I would not take the pony. Deeper and with unfamiliar buddies, probably yes. Not crazy about the idea of taking it on a plane--If I feel I need one, I could rent one there. I found the 19cf one I used to own big and bulky, and kind of cumbersome to sling. Many will disagree. I have a 13cf now that I backmount. Also, if solo diving (my self-imposed limit is 30' or so), I don't use it, as a CESA is easy. Do whatever makes you feel secure.

I am sure you are going to get a variety of opinion answers to your question, and here is mine. Save your money. As a recreational diver, if you properly plan and execute your dive, you should never need the pony bottle. I know some people swear by them, whether as their "security blanket" or as a safety device in the event of equipment malfunction, but I respectfully disagree. If you are getting into more technical stuff, then the purpose and justification is clearer, but for the diving you describe, and your experience level, in the word of my New Jersey friend "fugedabadit."
DivemasterDennis scubasnobs.com

As there are many threads debating this subject, I will try to hit the high points.

1) AL19 as a pony? I fee that this would be too small if you choose to step up into any diving beyond where you are now. My recommendation based on my experience and research is the AL40. Larger? Yes. More cumbersome? No. In my opinion, the AL40 is less obtrusive if you know how to sling it. I advocate slinging the bottle versus rigging it to your tank in case of entanglement (much easier to remove (there are a few was to rig one this way and I encourage simplicity)). However, a pony does not replace good gas planning and should be used more as that extra "Oh Crap" moment help than a nonchalant if I need it, I need it mentality several have. I am sure that I do not describe you.

2) Spare Air vs. Pony of any size bigger than a Spare Air? In this case, size matters. Others with more experience may have more on this, but other than having fun in a pol, I see little use for a Spare Air. The versatility of a pony and the increased safety factor (particularly when trained on how to use one) make it the obvious choice, in my mind.

3) Buddy with-in sight: Great! This is more than several of the divers I have seen do. Please understand I hope that this comes across as advice and not chastisement (as I have little to go on from your post and can not afford to assume anything more), I always recommend divers dive within arm's reach of his/her buddy. This allows for very fast response to issues rather than any unnecessary postponement. If this is the case, above 60', there should be no need for a pony until you progress with your training.

4) As for rigging, I find this site very helpful: Pony/Stage/Deco Bottle Rigging (FKD).

I hope this helps.

Re-posted from http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/tanks-valves-bands/372271-pony-redundant-set-up-2.html .

At least PADI and NAUI teach that there is a place for a redundant air supply (i.e., a pony) in diving, especially with deep dives. The choice is really up to you.

Personally, I like the idea of a redundant air supply but at this stage in my diving I am not into doubles. I therefore opt for a pony on some dives. Dives on which I believe that a pony is reasonable are: deep, cold, solo, or any combination thereof. I may well have missed something.

There was an excellent link at Rock Bottom and Gas Management for Recreational Divers (Rock Bottom and Gas Management for Recreational Divers | Spherical Chicken) which shows that, if you want to go deeper but within recreational limits, a 19 is a good size, and 13 is a tad too small.

The best advice that I can offer is that, if you choose to dive with a pony, practice deploying it and stowing it regularly. Since a pony has a small capacity it will run down quickly. I top mine off from my main tanks with a device such as this: Tank to Tank Equalizer With Gauge reviews and discounts, IST (Tank to Tank Equalizer With Gauge discounts on sale IST)

I find that surface-swimming face-down with one mounted on your back is a pain. You might consider a stage/deco straps such as those indicated in Stage/Deco Straps and Hose Retainers by Dive Rite - Dive Gear Express (Stage/Deco Straps and Hose Retainers by Dive Rite - Dive Gear Express) rather than a mounting bracket.

I sling mine like this: DIR-diver.com - Stagebottle rigging (DIR-diver.com - Stagebottle rigging). The only objection that I have heard to slinging a bottle is that it might get in the way if you are lobster hunting. I would stress that, if you dive with a pony, deploy it regularly so that it is second nature.

I prefer to sling my pony for the following reasons:

1. I can put the pony on or take it off in seconds - no tools, no hassle. I suppose that I could "hand it off" to someone underwater, but I don't think that this will realistically be necessary;
2. I can always see my pony tank and the reg. I can see if my reg is free-flowing, or if there appears to be a leak from the O-ring. If it snags on something, I can see what it snagged and fix the situation;
3. My basic gear configuration is unchanged - I use a primary and a bungee'd octo/secondary necklace. The pony reg is bungee'd to the pony bottle, far from my other two regs, and therefore will not be confused with them; and
4. I can consult the pressure gauge on my pony - this gauge is obviously connected to the pony and therefore will not be confused with my main tank pressure.

As a final note, many tech divers will pressurize their stage bottle then turn the valve off to prevent inadvertent gas loss during a dive. Perhaps one day I will do this, but so far, my pony is pressurized and the valve stays open during the dive. This might not be great if I had to rely on that gas for a deco obligation, but I believe that I am likely to see a leak in the pony.

Safe diving.

Wow, Thanks for all the replys. I am definatly a recreational diver only and never really plan on going technical. My deepest dives were in the Caribbean on guided tours in awesome comfortable conditions. My regular dives are usually less than 60 ft as I can see all I need in shallow waters and I really don't need to exceed the rec limits. I love wreck diving but again have no desire to penetrate or ever want to have an overhead enviorment. My buddy is ALWAYS within an arms reach and we keep excellent eye contact and I believe we communicate quite well and dive our plans well. My newest buddy was just certified last year and this is when I realized that not only class procedures changed (Class of 96 PADI for me) but equipment changed as well. I updated all my equipment but was not sure if redundant air was recommended or taught for shallow dives. I do plan on continuing my education by attending more specialty classes with my newest buddy as he is really enjoying his new hobby and wants to learn more as well. Odd as it may seem but I actually prefer to dive with my newest certified buddy even though I totally trust my seasoned buddies. Crash, you really gave some great links in that re-post and I really appreciate that. The first link did not work for me but I was able to Google it and find the same info. Since most of my dives are less than 60 ffw and probably more like 40 ft I think I will pass on the pony for now and spend my money on more specialty classes.
Thanks to all who posted, this is the best SCUBA forum ever.

Jon (cruzandiver1)

For me, solo or water at or below 45F I use a pony. Unknown buddy's sometimes warrant it use depending on the site. Its a tool, not a security blanket. In you case (warm water, shallow, known buddy) its probably not needed and your concentration on basic safety practices and dive planning is more important.

I asked my instructor the same thing since I will be purchasing one as well soon. He told me he carries his if he is in any of the following three diving conditions:

1. If he is going deep. For him it was anything over 75 feet or so.
2. If it is in cold water. For us we regularly get into water below 55 degrees. Often in the low 40's
3. If he is going into any overhead. For us, it's wreck diving within recreational limits

These made a lot of sense and gave me a good reference when to use mine.

Well my regular dives are usually less than 60 ft as I can see all I need in shallow waters and I really don't need to exceed the rec limits. I love wreck diving but again have no desire to penetrate or ever want to have an overhead environment..!!

Between my husband and myself, we have over 1500 dives. We've had two occasions where we've had to share gas . . . both were freeflows. In both cases, it was trivial to establish an air-share and abort the dive. (If we dove in colder water, I would not depend on a buddy's air supply for this, as the dual demand can freeze the BUDDY's first stage, too.) I have two friends in Southern California who have about 5000 dives between them, and have never had to share gas.

I therefore feel quite comfortable on shallow dives, depending on my buddy for my spare gas. It's highly unlikely I will need it, and my buddy is right there if I do. But I rarely dive with strangers, and when I do, I either keep the dive very shallow, or I dive doubles. If I didn't have six sets of them, I'd consider a slung bottle in such circumstances. 19 cf is adequate for dives to 100 feet.

It sounds as though you have a regular dive buddy, and if so, I wouldn't worry about carrying a pony bottle.