Opinions please....

[Levigarrett]

Would you be willing to dive doubles (Steel lp85's) with only a single bladder 60# wing and a wetsuit?

In this case, I'll also have a 50# liftbag and at least two possibly three additional more experienced divers.

I was recently told that absent a redundant bladder or drysuit, this gear configuration is a no-go for an AN/DP course. This makes perfect sense to me, I'm not arguing against this line of thinking but wondering if such thinking is wide spread?

I ask because the Halcyon wing in question is available to me at a significantly reduced cost.

Opinions please. Thanks.

[PfcAJ]

No. You need to research the concept of "balanced rig". Also, that wing is too wide for those tanks. A 40lb wing is more like it, and a drysuit.

[Jim Lapenta]

For LP85's yes I would and do. With a 5mil and for my double 72's I use a 3 mil. And always carry a 50 lb min lift bag for redundant buoyancy. What you will use in class however is up to your instructor and what they will allow. If he won't allow it ask him to loan you a wing. Or find another instructor. BTW I use a 58lb HOG wing with mine. I'll be buying a 38 though for the 72's soon as the funds are freed up.

[FireInMyBones]

Would I now? Not without a drysuit. Have I in the past? Yes. My doubles wing is 55# and I use it for any doubles setup from AL80s to HP130s, because it is what I own. If I am diving steel, however, I use a drysuit. I rarely need much air in my wing with LP85s and a light undergarment.

[txapacheguy]

I would dive that configuration as long as i had a 50lb lift bag. That having been said, I greatly prefer using the drysuit for diving with doubles...

[Levigarrett]

Ok, thanks for the replies. It's actually a 55# wing. I have absolutely no intention of buying a drysuit or diving one. I live in Florida and the vast majority of my diving is done without even a wetsuit. On the rare occasions when one is needed, I have a 3 mil suit that has thus far been more than enough. If it's colder than the average spring, I'm not interested. I have other hobbies for those days.

The 85's are not mine. I would not personally invest in doubles of that size. They are however being loaned to me to use whenever I like so for now, I'm quite happy to have access to them. Once I'm finished with this course and I have a better grasp of my own consumption, I'll look to purchase doubles. I suspect I'll be looking for something quite a bit larger than 85's.

[boulderjohn]

Once I'm finished with this course and I have a better grasp of my own consumption, I'll look to purchase doubles. I suspect I'll be looking for something quite a bit larger than 85's.In which case a dry suit will make a lot of sense.

I am a Colorado resident, but I spent a quite interesting 1.5 months in Florida this past spring. I did some caves near High Springs, and everyone I saw diving there was in a dry suit. I did a lot of deep decompression dives in the Pompano area, and I was the only one diving a dry suit. The water temperatures were nearly the same--the ocean was a little colder.

The cave divers would not think of going into the caves at 71° without a dry suit. The ocean divers would not think of using anything but a wet suit. On several of the ocean dives my wet suited buddy was visibly shivering during the final decompression. I was wearing my light underwear under my dry suit and was perfectly comfortable. He was also cold during the deeper parts of some of the dives, and I was always fine. But he would not dream of buying a dry suit.

So, I see two totally different attitudes in Florida. I am frankly having a little trouble understanding the difference in thought.

[Levigarrett]

In which case a dry suit will make a lot of sense.

I am a Colorado resident, but I spent a quite interesting 1.5 months in Florida this past spring. I did some caves near High Springs, and everyone I saw diving there was in a dry suit. I did a lot of deep decompression dives in the Pompano area, and I was the only one diving a dry suit. The water temperatures were nearly the same--the ocean was a little colder.

The cave divers would not think of going into the caves at 71° without a dry suit. The ocean divers would not think of using anything but a wet suit. On several of the ocean dives my wet suited buddy was visibly shivering during the final decompression. I was wearing my light underwear under my dry suit and was perfectly comfortable. He was also cold during the deeper parts of some of the dives, and I was always fine. But he would not dream of buying a dry suit.

So, I see two totally different attitudes in Florida. I am frankly having a little trouble understanding the difference in thought.

I certainly can't speak to the "attitudes" of other divers and why they've selected their gear configurations. For me, simply, if I believe that exposure is going to be a serious concern because of cold water temps, I'd probably find something else to do that day. I've worn both a 5 and 7 mil suit and that has thus far, always been sufficient. A dry suit is a significant investment that I don't predict I'll need often enough to make it's purchase reasonable. I don't enjoy cold water, so I avoid it.

I enjoy diving, but I have plenty of other interest if the conditions are not going to suit me. Additionally, I the winter, I'm quite happy to drive far enough south where a 5 or 7 mil suit will comfortably suffice. Plenty of my avid scuba buddies disagree. Their leisure activity is exclusively scuba and for them, they're not going to be deterred by cold water, I'm not one of those people.

[DevonDiver]

No, I wouldn't.

....and once you've done the AN/DP courses...and seen how your skills/competence match up against the requirement.... I doubt you will too. ;)

Coming up with a lift bag is a serious skill set. You'll be struggling to do it as it is, let alone with a bag. And you certainly won't/shouldn't be ending a tech course thinking that it'd be okay to rely on your buddy to get you out of the fire.

[RTee]

I acquired HP117cft doubles and a Zeagle SSBP/Wg (65lbs) last year as well as a drysuit Fusion). When I took my AN DP course this past spring my instructor recommended that I either consider switching my wing to a dual bladder system or add an additional Wg to the set-up which I did.

The last thing I wanted was to put all my faith into a drysuit zipper to hold me, my set-up plus two stage bottles in case of a main wing failure. We also discuss the use of a 50 lbs lift bag as a contingency measure. His answer was how comfortable and proficient was I to shoot a lift bag under ideal conditions, let alone having to do it unprepared as you are tumbling (maybe an exageration here) toward the dark and nebulous depth of your body of water and then having to unstow the darn thing, connect it to a reel of some sort and then shoot it up and then do damage control as to the impact of this mishap to your profile and related deco schedule.

This year for the first time I dove my steel tanks locally wearing only my 7mm. However, I did so with a set-up consisting of two independent bladders mounted on my BP.

Now if your instructor wants to see an extra bladder or a drysuit as a contingency buoyancy device, you may have very little choice. The alternative will be to find an instructor who is willing to teach you in your present configuration...which I think would be contravening the course standards of most agencies I am aware of.

[BabyDuck]

have i? yes. worse, it was pst 95s. would i now? perhaps, but it wouldn't be my first choice or even my second.

should you? in a class, likely not. see what your instructor wants you to do. s/he may be fine with doubling up your wing. yes, it's an inelegant, kludgy solution, but it might do.

and drysuits tend to be favored for tech dives more because of the *time* than the *temp*. 2+ hours at 70deg in the afternoon when you had a similar profile that morning is *cold*!

[Levigarrett]

Thanks for the responses. Without a doubt, I'm not interested in the dry suit option. I'll instead find the proper wing with the redundancy that provides.

[Centrals]

Thanks for the responses. Without a doubt, I'm not interested in the dry suit option. I'll instead find the proper wing with the redundancy that provides.
I have done all my technical dives in tropical warm water, dry suit is never an option. However, some tech divers are using tropical dry suits.
I prefer twin bladder with/out bungee. You have to decide whether or not to attach the inflator hose to the redundancy wing. How to stow the redundancy hose is another important consideration.

[PfcAJ]

Just a though, al80s plus an al80 stage provide almost as much gas as HP 130s/ lp104s filled to 3000. This is much more manageable with a wetsuit than any kind of double bladder/ lift bag 'solution'.

[ajduplessis]

Yes, I dive doubles (105's I think, steel 15L's) with a single bladder wing and do so all the time. I do however use a drysuit or at least a have a spare SMB with a wetsuit. I would also limit my depth in a wetsuit to 150ft, I know I can swim up from there (tried and tested).

[Colliam7]

Would you be willing to dive doubles (Steel lp85's) with only a single bladder 60# wing and a wetsuit? . . . It's actually a 55# wing. , , , In this case, I'll also have a 50# liftbag and at least two possibly three additional more experienced divers.Yes, I would. I have in the past, and will in the future. (The size and brand suggest it might be an Explorer? I have one and use it for a lot of doubles diving.) The presence of a 50lb lift bag would be a plus. Diving with 'more experienced divers' or not would not a factor. I never view a dive buddy as redundant buoyancy.
I was recently told that absent a redundant bladder or drysuit, this gear configuration is a no-go for an AN/DP course. For training, it is not uncommon to require redundant bouyancy, and many agencies are not inclined to view a lift bag as 'redundant buoyancy'. It is what it is, and I have no problem with that approach to training standards. Beyond training divers have the privilege of pretty much doing what they want.
I have absolutely no intention of buying a drysuit or diving one. I live in Florida and the vast majority of my diving is done without even a wetsuit. On the rare occasions when one is needed, I have a 3 mil suit that has thus far been more than enough. If it's colder than the average spring, I'm not interested. I have other hobbies for those days.Fair enough. For many years I dove ONLY 1) a 3mm wetsuit for water temps above 72, or 2) a drysuit if the water temp was below that. I have routinely used a drysuit at certain times in FL - in springs, at 40 Fathom, even off the east coast in January / February. I recently purchased a 5mm wetsuit and love it, and plan to dive it in place of my drysuit for some springs dives. The point - individual opinions and preferences, even strongly held ones, may change over time.
Once I'm finished with this course . . . I'll look to purchase doubles. I suspect I'll be looking for something quite a bit larger than 85's.I am curious (not agreeing or disagreeing) about that statement. Why only something 'quite a bit bigger' than LP85s?

[Ste Wart]

I'd go redundancy.

Normally I do most twinset/ tech diving in a wetty or boardshorts (luxury!) but I always have a back-up bladder. Financially I was able to get 2 single bladder wings for the price of a double bladder wing. Does it elicit laughter when I gear up... yes. Do I care.. No. It's all very well to say that you can swim up from such and such a depth, but I would like the option of comfortably doing my deco stops in a horizontal position.
Also for the belt & Braces approach I have a large SMB in case both bladders happen to fail. Or maybe that's ocd? ;)

[ianr33]

I am a Colorado resident, but I spent a quite interesting 1.5 months in Florida this past spring. I did some caves near High Springs, and everyone I saw diving there was in a dry suit. I did a lot of deep decompression dives in the Pompano area, and I was the only one diving a dry suit. The water temperatures were nearly the same--the ocean was a little colder.

The cave divers would not think of going into the caves at 71° without a dry suit. The ocean divers would not think of using anything but a wet suit.

So, I see two totally different attitudes in Florida. I am frankly having a little trouble understanding the difference in thought.

Well I guess it's easier to winch yourself up a line on a lift bag than it is to crawl half a mile through 10 foot deep silt?