Buying or renting tanks?

[Hostage]

I have been thinking of about buying a scuba tank and comparing it with the idea or renting. For my AOW they are charging me $50 for renting tanks and air. I am wondering if it is worth buying tanks or not. They normally charge $20/tank/weekend, I don't think they charge me for fills after that. I think they charged me $10 for last night for using a tank for the pool scession. To fill your own tank, it costs $7.50/fill, then there is VIP (every year) and Hydro (every 5) on top of that. I am getting 6 dives, including the pool scession out of it. In this case it looks like using theirs as oppose to buying would a better idea $45 (fill my own) vs $50 (using theirs).

Two weeks ago I paid $40 for using two tanks once each for a drift dive. I had no other option to do the weekend rate as the dive shop is closed on Sun and Mon. Further more I had to drive back to the shop on Tues to return the tanks, the shop is about 25mins away.

The shop has some used tanks that they are willing to sell two 72CF LP tanks for $125 each, what do you guys think of that?

Is there anything I am leaving out?

Regards,

Hostage

[spoolin01]

I find the convenience of having my own tanks far outweighs concern over relative expense. The operating and carrying costs of tank ownership are probably on the order of $30/year, ballpark, not counting fills. Other plusses for me - I can own a bigger tank than I can rent, it can be steel and have a buoyancy quality that I prefer over AL80s, and it can be in better operating condition than the rental beaters.

I'm not so up on all prices everywhere, but if that's an old steel 72, the price seems pretty high. Hope than means very recent hydro and fresh visual inspection. I don't know your needs, but a 72 wouldn't even be close to the capacity I'd want. If you're looking for a light tank, the steel HP 100s are similar size and weight to the familiar aluminum 80 (make sure it's not stamped DOT 3AA - those are very heavy), but with better qualities. They are pricey when new but around here can often be had used for around $200.

[Hostage]

They had 85's for ~$350ish at the store. I saw on a sign that they do free VIPs with purchase of a tank from them, I don't know if that includes used. The guy also mentioned that they could split the hydro cost if it was close to expiring. It is more of a pain to drive back to return the tanks. i might wait till next year so I get a new tank w/ more of a hydro on it as well as spread the cost over a longer period.

I also saw some guy selling these on craigslist: Scuba Tanks (http://rochester.craigslist.org/spo/2534811183.html) for $100. They haven't been hydroed in over 20 years.

[doctormike]

Buying tanks is rarely about saving money, it is usually about convenience and the ability to get tanks otehr than AL80s...

If you dive locally, it's definitely worth it - you don't need to rush back to return tanks or get late fees. Also, you can leave your tanks to get filled and pick them up when you need them (most shops don't seem to mind their regular customers doing that during the season).

Also, for local diving in the Rochester area, unless you are doing the Thousand Islands in late summer, you are probably going to be diving dry or a fairly heavy wetsuit. Steel tanks have good buoyancy characteristics for that, another plus of buying.

M

[TravisD]

For me, owning tanks means taking one trip to the shop for fills, vs. two to pick up and drop off rentals. Also means I can do it anytime during the week when I have time, not just Day before/day-after.

Great thing about most tanks (steels especially) is that unlike most SCUBA gear, they actually hold most of their value, should you decide to resell them later.

[DMDavid]

Lets see where should I start?
$20 tank rental?
Weekend rate?

I don't know if your tank rental rate is so high because you're in Rochester or if you're just getting ripped off.
In any case, the amount you're paying for rentals I would most definitely buy my own tanks.

Check around with other dive shops if you have any options.
Find out if they have a discount on airfills for buying a 10 or 20 fill card.

Most dive shops in Florida will rent you a tank on Saturday and you can return it on Monday if they are closed on Sunday for a one day rental rate ($10).

I own and rent depending on the situation.
Ownership has it's advantages, like spur of the moment dive trips on a Sunday morning or holiday.


FB-Florida Scuba Diver (https://www.facebook.com/FloridaScubaDiver)

[Bubbletrubble]

I'd recommend trying to buy a used HP100 on Craigslist. The tank has a nice amount of capacity, slightly smaller physical dimensions than an AL80, and desirable buoyancy characteristics. These tanks sell for $300+ new, but I have been lucky enough to get them used for as little as $50.

Depending on the local used market, the demand, and your patience, you may be able to get a very good deal. Just make sure you figure the cost of hydro and/or VIP into the cost of having a "dive-able" tank.

[Hostage]

I am doing the St. Laurance this weekend for my AOW. I have a FJ and Jacket 7mm and 5mm (12mm core). I don't really have much of an interest in ice diving. I might wait till the start of the next season and get 2 tanks as that seems what people normally use for the day. There is another dive shop about 4 miles away that charges only $5. If I get my tanks I will fill with him. I will get my other stuff serviced, make major purchases, and do my training from the other shop. The shop I go to that is a lot further happen to have the best schedule for me, they also seem a lot better put together.


Buying tanks is rarely about saving money, it is usually about convenience and the ability to get tanks otehr than AL80s...

If you dive locally, it's definitely worth it - you don't need to rush back to return tanks or get late fees. Also, you can leave your tanks to get filled and pick them up when you need them (most shops don't seem to mind their regular customers doing that during the season).

Also, for local diving in the Rochester area, unless you are doing the Thousand Islands in late summer, you are probably going to be diving dry or a fairly heavy wetsuit. Steel tanks have good buoyancy characteristics for that, another plus of buying.

M

[doctormike]

I am doing the St. Laurance this weekend for my AOW.

Did some diving there a few weeks ago... amazing trip! Was comfortable in a 5 mm (72 degrees, top to bottom).

The further the dive shop, the better it is to have your own tanks. Also, usually better to buy two, so you have the ability to do two tank boat dives.

[=C=]

I second craigslist. I just picked up an LP85 and three AL 80's for 80USD... They all needed hydro but they were all in great condition.

Get a used tank, take the tank boot off, inspect the tank thoroughly from the outside for condition clues, or even make a deal that if it doesn't pass hydro there is some sort of refund (people occasionally go for this). Avoid old Luxfer bad alloy tanks and your good to go (there are tons of threads on this). Empty tanks and any external signs of rust raise flags for me but they are really just an indicator of increased risk that the tank will need more than a hydro and VIP (and possibly that they wont pass).

Fill cards cut down the cost too.

As for value? I still have my first AL80 and its in great shape, brand new for 80 bucks back in 1999. Life of a modern tank is pretty long and when you want out you can sell it on and cash out.

Here a link with the search http://rochester.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=scuba&srchType=T

I notice there's a guy with two tanks for 50 in your area.

[Scuba_Noob]

Beginner Question:

I'm also in the process of buying used tanks from a reputable dive shop this weekend.

I've already decided I'll buy steel. I've been diving only with Al80s my entire dive "career", so should I just get steel 80s or can I go a larger tank? Would it affect me a lot if I went to 85s or even 100?

I'd like to do two dives each time I go out. Should I just get two tanks? (Yes, I know that seems like a self-explanatory answer, but I just want to cover my bases).

Are most steel tanks low pressure or high pressure? Would it be difficult getting it filled more with low or high pressure tanks or does it not make a difference?

Lastly, all I really need to check is the last hydro and the last yearly inspection, as well as do a visual inspection on the outside rust, right?

Thanks. If I can't get an answer here, I may just ask this somewhere else in the forum.

[Hostage]

I second craigslist. I just picked up an LP85 and three AL 80's for 80USD... They all needed hydro but they were all in great condition.

Get a used tank, take the tank boot off, inspect the tank thoroughly from the outside for condition clues, or even make a deal that if it doesn't pass hydro there is some sort of refund (people occasionally go for this). Avoid old Luxfer bad alloy tanks and your good to go (there are tons of threads on this). Empty tanks and any external signs of rust raise flags for me but they are really just an indicator of increased risk that the tank will need more than a hydro and VIP (and possibly that they wont pass).

Fill cards cut down the cost too.

As for value? I still have my first AL80 and its in great shape, brand new for 80 bucks back in 1999. Life of a modern tank is pretty long and when you want out you can sell it on and cash out.

Here a link with the search rochester, NY all for sale / wanted classifieds "scuba" - craigslist (http://rochester.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=scuba&srchType=T)

I notice there's a guy with two tanks for 50 in your area.

I saw the add for the two tanks for $50 each and I am really wondering if it is worth it for that much. The store is offering me the same size tanks for $125 and they are in VIP and Hydro. Also one of them is missing a valve knob. I think after the cost of having those tanks hydro'ed tested and VIP, it might be about the same. I also won't get the same gurantee with the tanks from the business. I see some guy selling due 95's for $550. I am wondering if I can split them up and use them seperately. I want to dive some of the St. Lawrance wrecks.

I just spoke to one guy selling a tank there he has a Luxfer 80CF AL tank 3000PSI, though it is out of hydro. He told me to offer him a price. I really can't see paying that much for one. It was made in 99. I also feel worried about AL fatigue, which still dosen't get.

[spoolin01]

Beginner Question:

I'm also in the process of buying used tanks from a reputable dive shop this weekend.

I've already decided I'll buy steel. I've been diving only with Al80s my entire dive "career", so should I just get steel 80s or can I go a larger tank? Would it affect me a lot if I went to 85s or even 100?

I'd like to do two dives each time I go out. Should I just get two tanks? (Yes, I know that seems like a self-explanatory answer, but I just want to cover my bases).

Are most steel tanks low pressure or high pressure? Would it be difficult getting it filled more with low or high pressure tanks or does it not make a difference?

Lastly, all I really need to check is the last hydro and the last yearly inspection, as well as do a visual inspection on the outside rust, right?

Thanks. If I can't get an answer here, I may just ask this somewhere else in the forum.When I was in your shoes, I knew that I usually ran out of air with an Al80 before bottom time, since my dives were typically 40-60 ft, so I went for 120 cu ft tanks, and I'm still glad I did. There's quite a weight difference among various tanks, so if carry weight or weight on your back topside is a concern, look into the trade-offs (there are tables of tank specs). The HP100 (the special exemption versions, not the DOT 3AA versions, which are less commonly found anyway) sits in a pretty sweet spot. If you want more air, the weight goes up significantly.

I found it difficult to get full HP fills around here. The solution is either get a bigger tank, or go LP, or both. Many are lucky enough to live near shops that will give full HP fills, or even more.

When I buy a used tank, I take a small light and ask to look inside as well. Water can do a lot of damage inside a steel tank.

[Nwcid]

I am just getting into diving. So I may not have a clue what I am talking about here.

We have a local dive club that has a "fill station" (not sure proper name yet). If you join the club you get to fill your own tanks for free. They rent a space in the back of a fire station so you can have access any time. Sounds like the fee is $50/year. Might be worth looking into if there is something similar in your area.

[diveprof]

I'm a big steel tank fan, but 72's - not. Stick with the steel 100s. If your significant other gripes about the cost just remind her/him it is life support equipment (didn't work for me either -worth a shot though :D )

[gcarter]

I originally had no intentions of owning tanks. Then I looked at actual costs: 2 tanks each, me and son, = $60 for the day. Fills only would be half that. Plus only one trip to fill rather than one to pick up and one to return.

LDS had a deal that could not be beat. AL80's from their rental fleet, 5 years old, they do the hydro / vip, $150 and INCLUDES $150 of air fill cards. In other words, by pre-paying for 20 fills, I get a 5 year old tank in fully checked out condition.

I bought 4 (and picked one up for a friend).

[spectrum]

The bling of owning comes in the convenience of having it standing by and then being able to go for fills at your convenience. Depending on your ability to dive spontaneously and proximity to your shop along with their hours the payback in mileage expenses alone can justify owning.

Forget about hydro, it's amortized over 5 years, inescapably like death &takes and amounts to a rounding error.

Pretty much the same with VIP, if you don't use it enough to have the cost drop below $100/dive then you need to be diving more.

If you can rent for $20/weekend with unlimited fills that's a hard deal to beat on weekends where you dive more than a few dives. How do get a single cylinder refilled short of diving at the shop or driving a lot? If your renting several at $20/weekend it's not such a deal.

What are your rental options? AL86 & 65? By owning you can get the material, size and pressure of your choice and remain configured for it.

What to buy? I don't know, what capacity do you need for a good dive based on your style & usage? IMO HP steel is a nice way to go. there arguments in favor of LP. You don't need to dig deep to find threads picking that apart. Don't let what the shop has lying around be the decision makes. You have some serous $$ invested in the sport. Get what's right, the difference will be a drop in the bucket.

You're heading into the off season, watch Craigslist for deals.

Pete

[Bob DBF]

The shop has some used tanks that they are willing to sell two 72CF LP tanks for $125 each, what do you guys think of that?

Since you are thinking of that price, buy a couple of brand new AL80's online at $150 ea to use and then learn about finding good deals on used steel tanks at your leisure. Paying $125 for a 72, even with this years hydro and vip, is just wrong. The last 72 I saw change hands was for $0 and it was a couple of months from hydro and vip (it passed when due). Without experience looking over and pricing tanks you can get burned on buying used.

When I first bought tanks I could get two AL80s for a bit more than one 72, not as many choices back then. Being on a budget, I went for the most air for the buck. Since then I have aquired a number of pre-owned steel tanks over the years. Although I perfer to dive steel, the ALs have come in handy on weekend trips to spots that have no fill station.

As you aquire tanks you will find that it is hard to have to many.


Bob
-------------------------------
I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.

[doctormike]

Beginner Question:

I've already decided I'll buy steel. I've been diving only with Al80s my entire dive "career", so should I just get steel 80s or can I go a larger tank? Would it affect me a lot if I went to 85s or even 100?
Good questions, Scuba_Noob!

When you say, "would it affect me", to answer that question we would need to know more about your diving... If you have great air consumption, and usually end dives because of bottom time limits (unusual in a newer diver), then I guess you don't need more gas - although it always helps to have extra in case of emergencies.

Going from, for example, an HP80 to and HP100 will give you 25% more gas, simple as that. But there are always tradeoffs... bigger tanks usually mean heavier tanks, so you need to figure out if you can (1) carry it across the boat deck or down to the beach, etc... and (2) figure out how it will affect your weighting, which depends on your exposure suit, size, etc..

This table (http://members.cox.net/bemcmillan/tanks.htm) may be helpful.



I'd like to do two dives each time I go out. Should I just get two tanks? (Yes, I know that seems like a self-explanatory answer, but I just want to cover my bases).

I can't think of anyone who has their own tanks who only has one. I guess if you just did the occasional beach dive, that might be OK. But generally when you make the commitment to take all your gear out, buy a boat ticket, etc.. for a day's diving, you want to at least get two dives in. Some dive boats have compressors on them, but they usually don't like running them just to refill a single tank for a half day trip - they are generally meant for multi-day trips.

[Hostage]

I was speaking to my LDS and he said he would sell me some used 95's for half the price of a new 95 ($350). It doesn't seem that bad, seeing that guy is trying to sell his two 95's for $550 on Clist.

[aquaregia]

Make sure you like diving LP95s first. I don't, but I dive them pretty often anyway just for the extra air.

Pairs of tanks are nice. I have nine mismatched tanks (from single 72s to double 95s), and arranging a two dive trip actually takes a bit of thinking, or at least changing weights in between dives. I still rent tanks for boat trips.

I originally bought tanks for night-diving convenience, but they've all ended up paying for themselves. I own a lot of 72s just because they're often about $50 after the hydro and when I was diving wet, I honestly didn't care to be diving for more than a half hour.

[Hostage]

I am looking at two LP 95s, I will see if I can get the same ones as it seems like a pain to switch the strap size and switch weights for different tanks. Any other good pointers would be greatly apperciated. They are in Hydro and VIP.

[Shftrdog]

If you are going to do local diving def. get your own tanks. The nice thing about having your own tank is that you can dive when ever you want. You are not dependent on the shop or weather. If you rent a tank and somthing comes up and you can't go diving then you still paid for that rental. If you have your own tank and somthing comes up then you just go ahead and dive another time, your not out anything. As for the 72CF, I would go for 80CF, that is the industruy standard. Good luck

[aquaregia]

As for the 72CF, I would go for 80CF, that is the industruy standard. Good luck

72cf is as industry standard as steel gets. And, it's a far better tank than an AL80 in every way other than capacity, and that's out the door too if you don't mind sticking an extra 200psi into them.

Two LP95s will have roughly the same weight and tank strap adjustments. It gets crappy when you start having 6.9", 7.25" and 8" tanks with empty buoyancies of -2# to +4.5#.

[DMDavid]

72cf is as industry standard as steel gets. And, it's a far better tank than an AL80 in every way other than capacity, and that's out the door too if you don't mind sticking an extra 200psi into them.
Please elaborate a bit further on this claim.




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[aquaregia]

Sure:
* A steel72 at working pressure has 90% of the gas of an AL80, pump it to 2700psi and they're the same.
* A steel72 is 4# more negative than an AL80, so that's off the weight belt.
* A steel72 is about 5# lighter than an AL80, so with the ballast difference, there's a 9# dry weight difference
* Nobody's making a fuss about 20 year old 3AA tanks