Air Test: Simple Answer Realy

[deepdiver5by5]

I know this has been beaten on this board and by a lot of people, so lets not let my question get out of hand. I went into a shop in Toronto for air because my friend said they have the best air around the GTA (on by the way I had a fun dive on the wreck off St. Catherines this weekend). They had this certificate that previous threads have mentioned Z180. The man in the store said that this was their retest and the sample was taken at the end of the filter life.
My question is at what time of the filter life sould this air test be done? Are there standards when this should be done in the six months?
Just curious?
Only complant about their air - very dry, almost too dry.


Dive Deep
deepdiver5by5

[pufferfish]

deepdiver5by5 once bubbled...
I know this has been beaten on this board and by a lot of people, so lets not let my question get out of hand. I went into a shop in Toronto for air because my friend said they have the best air around the GTA (on by the way I had a fun dive on the wreck off St. Catherines this weekend). They had this certificate that previous threads have mentioned Z180. The man in the store said that this was their retest and the sample was taken at the end of the filter life.
My question is at what time of the filter life sould this air test be done? Are there standards when this should be done in the six months?
Just curious?
Only complant about their air - very dry, almost too dry.
Dive Deep
deepdiver5by5

Very good questions DD25 and ones that an informed diver should ask of their fill station manager. I'll step up to the plate first here but I am sure others will follow ;)

Filter life is dependent on many factors such as the quality, humidity, and temperature of the ambient air, the proper functioning of the compressor which is dependent on routine maintenance, and of course how many hours the filters have been run. Running a compressor in high humidity and temperature conditions shortens filter life. A good fill station manager will record the temperture and humidity in the compressor's log and as these conditions increase the requisite time to change a filter decreases.

As far as when to change a filter the easiest indicator would be to have a Bauer Securus system which monitors the degree of saturation in the filter cartridge by measuring the humidity of the molecular sieve (drying agent). I don't know at what humidity content the system will move from the green light to the yellow light, but when this 'advance warning' appears the filter cartridge should be changed. Hopcalite which removes your CO is rendered ineffective when the humidity is above about 4% and there must be a similar value for the charcoal. The Securus system would provide a warning to change the filter well below this humidity level.

As far as when to do the air test a smart and safe fill station manager will do do his test just *before* the filter change as this will show how well the system has functioned over the life of the cartridge. If the retest in your shop was done just before the filter change then this owner knows his stuff. The result on this would represent the 'worst' air someone could get from his fill station so if this air passes and is oxygen compatible he has a very good functioning fill station. This is where the devil is really in the details as we know most fill station owners will try and take their sample soon after a filter change where the likelihood of passing the test is greatest. The air may readily pass at this point but three months later with lots of hot humid weather and say a compressor leaking oil the air might fail miserbly. A incompetent fill station manager might change the filter and then do the air test immediately afterwards not realizing that one month later because of the humid conditions and the poor quality of his compressor system that he is pumping air that would fail a test. The air test taken right after a filter change will likely pass with flying colours but to the trained eye there are ways to tell if this has been done. Basically the farther one is from the air test date on the same filter the greater chance there is for the air to fail a test likely for excessive CO2 or moisture content. An informed diver will then inquire as to when the test was done relative to the filter change. The greatest risk for a diver to get bad air is just before the filter change is done assuming the ambient air is not contaminated.

There are no standards as far as I know with regard to when one should do the six month air test relative to the filter change but maybe someone else will know. In reality, during the busy summer season some shops should be testing monthly with the number of hours their compressors are running whereas in the slow winter months the test can likely wait six months. There are some Ontario shops that pump more air on a summer long weekend than they do in three months during the winter. That CSA six month air test frequency remember is a bare bones minimum standard.

As far as having the best air in the GTA I would accept that claim if the following criteria were met:
1. An accredited lab was used (not OUC)
2. The air was tested to the 2000 version of CSA Z180.1 not 1985
3. The test was really done just before the filter change and not right afterwards

If this is the case please let us know where you purchased your air because as far as when I last checked there was only one shop in the GTA which met the first two criteria on the list.

As far as dry air in Ontario, it can never be too dry. Yes you get 'cotton mouth' but the lower the dewpoint the less likely you are to have a first stage free flow in cold water.

Hope that helps

[Tom R]

Lucy once said

Honest Charlie Brown I'll hold the football.


Tom

[CincyBengalsFan]

In the good Ole USA, OSHA does require that compressors be tested annually. I know of a lot of places that do it every 6 months. A lot of states in the USA have their own OSHA that is always more strict than the Federal OSHA. So some states may vary on the air testing.

The air we pump into our cylinders should have only .01% humidty in them.

However; when blending Nx. and using medical grade O2, the humidty will increase.

If you use aviation O2 then that actually has 0% humidty in it. At least that's what the boys at Scott Gross Gas tell me.

[pufferfish]

Tom R once bubbled...


Honest Charlie Brown I'll hold the football.

Tom

Yes Lucy you have the knowledge and game plan, so just run with the ball :)

[DeepScuba]

HEy 5X5

How'd you get on that wreck in St Catharines?

We sunk the line 2 weeks ago.

Who took you?

PM if you feel you must.

Yes I have a very valid reason for asking you.

[amobeus]

Hi

I dove that wreck just off of St Catharines last year and the boat owner was a fella named Johnathan Brooks, I don't know if this is the same charter or not but he is one of a few out there pounding the waves.

Amobeus

[divedude]

pufferfish once bubbled...


Yes Lucy you have the knowledge and game plan, so just run with the ball :)

You and Tom R make my day.............LOL :D

[i]
I dove that wreck just off of St Catharines last year and the boat owner was a fella named Johnathan Brooks, I don't know if this is the same charter or not but he is one of a few out there pounding the waves.

Does Johnathan Brooks have a charter service????
That's just scary!!! :D

[deepdiver5by5]

Thanks for the info. people. I was just curious. The fill station was Dive Toronto. I found out from my friend that they have always had Z180 air.
As for the charter, the boat was fast and the service was great.
Dive Deep
deepdiver5by5

[Kevin R]

Hey Jim

Is it your turn to make more popcorn?


Kevin

[Silverback]

Deepdiver5by5 stated "I had a fun dive on the wreck off St. Catherines this weekend"

By this weekend, do you mean Last weekend. I was down there on the Saturday and was on this boat called the Roy E.

Was this the same boat that took you out, or did you have the other boat take you out.

The boat that I was on wan't a bad little boat. Had a crew of about 3, which made it one to one on the crew vs divers aspect. Good and fast, got us out there quick, and back just as quick. I'd use this charter again.

Silverback

[Dive Source]

Hey Jim,

Give ole Jonathan a break..he does a pretty good job with the boat, at least when I went with him in Brockville last year and it's a quick boat which is nice.

He's Not as good as you of course :D

Hope things in Kingston are good, maybe we can get out with you again next year as you and Spence are my favourite charter guys down in prison country.

BP

[amobeus]

Come on now leave Johnathon Brooks alone, he has a good boat and provides a top notch charter service. I've dove with him many times in Brockville on the joydrey when he was associated with Mike Robertson at Caggers country in. Dive Source is this the store that purchased all the left over junk from the Tam dive liquidation sale. LoL

Amobeus

What comes around goes around.

[Dive Source]

Dive Source is this the store that purchased all the left over junk from the Tam dive liquidation sale. LoL

Actually it was a pretty good deal, however If anybody needs small hood or small gloves - drop in and I will happily give you a set for free LOL :D

BP

[Over The Egde]

To answer everybodies questions, Yes, Jonathan Brooks is one of the Captains on the Roy E. and Yes, we do charter to the millenium wreck off of St. Catharines. We usually keep this boat in St. Catharines from Thanksgiving to May 24th before returning to Rockport for the summer. As a matter of fact with this mild weather we have been having down here recently we will be putting the Roy E. in the water this weekend (February 28, 29). Thank you to all of you that posted such nice things about our boats and operation. I look forward to seeing all of you on our boats again this year

[JamesP]

To answer everybodies questions, Yes, Jonathan Brooks is one of the Captains on the Roy E. and Yes, we do charter to the millenium wreck off of St. Catharines. We usually keep this boat in St. Catharines from Thanksgiving to May 24th before returning to Rockport for the summer. As a matter of fact with this mild weather we have been having down here recently we will be putting the Roy E. in the water this weekend (February 28, 29). Thank you to all of you that posted such nice things about our boats and operation. I look forward to seeing all of you on our boats again this year

Dude,
I would be interested in taking a charter. Please pm me when you have the time.
Thanks

[JamesP]

As far as having the best air in the GTA I would accept that claim if the following criteria were met:
1. An accredited lab was used (not OUC)
2. The air was tested to the 2000 version of CSA Z180.1 not 1985
3. The test was really done just before the filter change and not right afterwards

If this is the case please let us know where you purchased your air because as far as when I last checked there was only one shop in the GTA which met the first two criteria on the list.


Hope that helps

And me spending the afternoon with Fred Harley makes this all the funnier. Kevin would you please pass the popcorn.

[simcoediver]

Can someone tell me a little bit about this wreck off St Catherines. What kind of ship is it? Its history and possibly GPS numbers?

[Dan MacKay]

And me spending the afternoon with Fred Harley makes this all the funnier. Kevin would you please pass the popcorn.

Passsing the time with Fred. Doesn't it go something like this..You don't know s**t. I'm still learning! Remember to bring a big bag of popcorn with you and have someone call you on your cell phone in two hours with an "emergency".

Dan

[advtech]

Pulled this info off the Lake Erie Mooring project page on the NDA's web site at
http://www.vaxxine.com

Port Dalhousie Shipwreck Moored
(043-14.734 / 079-17.064)
Jim Garrington of Shark Marine discovered this schooner off Port Dalhousie several years ago while testing one of his sidescan sonar units. The site had been kept secret while he, with the help of David Gilchrist, performed an archeological and photographic survey. The 110’ deep wreck was originally believed to be that of the Henry Clay, although this is no longer thought to be the case. To date this wreck still remains unidentified. Jim agreed to release the location to the diving public once a proper mooring system had been installed to protect the wreck from anchors and grapples. Dave, being an NDA member, approached the club to see if we were willing to expand our Lake Erie Mooring Project to include this Lake Ontario shipwreck. Most people became aware of this Shipwreck when Dave presented his video of it at our Shipwrecks/2002 Symposium in Welland in March of this year.
Our first thought was to tow a 3600# block out under our 4000# lift bag from either Port Dalhousie or Port Weller. However, after our previous experience with the Betty Hedger’s block, combined with the fact that we didn’t want to risk damage to the smaller boats available, we elected to hire a tug with crane from Oakville and come across the lake. Although large blocks were available in the Oakville area, the cost of transporting them to the harbour was prohibitive. We obtained three used 1200# anchors from the Town of Oakville and after some minor welding had them loaded onto the Emerald Bay and ready to go.

At 7AM Saturday, July 6th the tug Emerald Bay with Barbara and Ian Marshall on board headed out of Oakville with calm seas. Our plan was to meet Pat Palumbo and David Mekker on board the Pearl Dive Charters boat out of Port Weller at 10 AM. Pat & Dave were to locate the wreck, attach floats to both ends and place a third float where the anchors were to be dropped. We had hoped to suspend all three anchors from the side of the Emerald Bay, chain them together and drop them all at once. Unfortunately, the seas had picked up to 3-4’, which meant that lifting 1200# blocks under a 24’ boom was going to be a thrilling experience. We elected to drop the blocks individually away from the wreck and worry about hooking them together and moving them later. One bock was complete with the mooring line and buoy and was verified by Pat to be about 80’ off the wreck. Ian and Barb made a dive to locate the other two blocks and mark them for easy retrieval later.

The following Monday Ian and Pat left Port Weller early evening aboard the Pearl Dive Charters boat. Over the course of several dives, they were able to maneuver the three blocks together and move them to within 25’ of the port rail, amidships of the wreck.

Each anchor has 10’ of chain and all are joined at a 7000# ring. The ring and chain are held off the bottom by an air-filled 5 gallon container. A ¾” poly line runs up to 10’ below the surface. 20’ of chain comes up the rest of the way to the white/orange mooring buoy. Another 20’ of ¾’ poly line with a blue/white swimming pool float is floating on the surface. This line has a thimble spliced in it, through which the boat’s bow line may be passed. There is also a tag line running from the ring, to a pulley attached to the wreck and up to a small float. This assures that the tag line will always be taut no matter which way the wind or current are moving.

Special thanks should go to Jim Garrington for releasing the numbers to the wreck, John Schertzer of Pearl Dive Charters for supplying his services and boat at no charge for two days, Dick Stam of Great Lakes Boat Service for arranging for the blocks, welding and supplying his services, boat and crane for less than ½ his normal fee. The Roland Buoy’s mooring buoy (approx. $300 value) was donated by SOS (Save Ontario Shipwrecks). The Niagara Divers’ Association donated a total of $831.00 towards supplies, hardware, line, floats and boat fees. The four divers mentioned above, all supplied their time, equipment and air at no charge.

Please note:

Although the mooring anchor is a total of 3600#, it only weighs 56% of that weight in water. As this area is a sand bottom, we cannot count on bottom suction to hold the blocks in place as we do with Lake Erie’s mud. We purposely left the line short with only chain coming to the surface to prevent fishermen from cutting the line (all shackles attached to the chain and buoy have been welded). PLEASE use the tagline attached to the buoy (not the small emergency ring on top of it) and use lots of scope to prevent the bocks from moving.

[JamesP]

Passsing the time with Fred. Doesn't it go something like this..You don't know s**t. I'm still learning! Remember to bring a big bag of popcorn with you and have someone call you on your cell phone in two hours with an "emergency".

Dan

Yep, that's Freddie

[Kevin R]

And me spending the afternoon with Fred Harley makes this all the funnier. Kevin would you please pass the popcorn.
I can't pass the popcorn, I'm too busy ROTFLMAO about this thread getting re-opened.

[Over The Egde]

Hey Folks,

We had over 100 ft of vis on the Tiller/Millenium wreck today. We're expecting clear skies again Sunday. Looks like we may even be diving it again next weekend if this weather holds.

Regards,

[amobeus]

Theres nothing wrong with Fred Harley, it just dive shop owners who feel they shouldnt have to pay for screwing up there own compressors, what will you all do when he is gone.

Amobeus





Passsing the time with Fred. Doesn't it go something like this..You don't know s**t. I'm still learning! Remember to bring a big bag of popcorn with you and have someone call you on your cell phone in two hours with an "emergency".

Dan

[JamesP]

Theres nothing wrong with Fred Harley, it just dive shop owners who feel they shouldnt have to pay for screwing up there own compressors, what will you all do when he is gone.

Amobeus

Dude,
I think you have the wrong impression. We have the utmost respect for Freddie and his knowledge and his skill in dealing with compressors and compressed breathing gas. The point being made is that Fred knows and is still learning even after 30 plus years in the industry. PufferRoo thinks he knows but real has no experience whatsoever. I hope this clarifies the situation for you. PufferRoo does not know what he thinks he knows. Fred on the other hand does know what he thinks he knows and if he is not sure of the situation he will tell you so straight up. When I show up at Fred's to pick up some equipment I fully expect to be there for a couple of hours while Fred does a show and tell of the things he is working on at the time. I find it very interesting and very informative. I also find Fred's enthusiasm very infectious

[Tom R]

Rotflmao

[Scuba_Jenny]

Hey Folks
Please keep the discussion free from degrading opinions of others. While your opinion may or may not add to the overall quality of the thread, making degrading comments about other board members does little good if any. Play nice.