Trimix - TDI v IANTD

[the_dumper]

I have got to a point where I am doing 200ft dives on air and getting well narked, so I guess it's about time to move onto Trimix.
Where I live it's a choice of TDI or IANTD anyone got anything to say about the pros and cons in the different courses that they both offer.

[flw]

Not a lot to choose between the courses, as ever its the instructors who vary, speak to people who've done courses recently and see what they say, the qualifying agency is almost irrelevant.
It's several years since I did my trimix course and things have moved on since then, but ringing round the various intructors, what they taught you and where varied tremendously - some gave the impression that they hardly did any gas diving themselves.
I learned with John Thornton in Orkney, but that's a long way from London - Richie Stevenson from Deep Blue in Plymouth is good, not sure if he teaches himself still, but any instructor he uses will be good, Phil Hodson from Aberdeen Watersports I've watched teach, and would trust him.

rgds
Fi

[padiscubapro]

the_dumper once bubbled...
I have got to a point where I am doing 200ft dives on air and getting well narked, so I guess it's about time to move onto Trimix.
Where I live it's a choice of TDI or IANTD anyone got anything to say about the pros and cons in the different courses that they both offer.

You can try contacting Joe Davin,
He teaches, Iantd, TDI and recently started ANDI programs. I did some work with him last may when I was doing instructor crossovers for the UK and he presented himself as a dedicated professional.

Of the three programs the ANDI trimix program is the most involved and has the most prerequisites..Depending on your qualifications he may be able to offer it otherwise you'll have to go with the TDI or IANTD programs.. The programs vary tremendously with the individual instructor and background. Its important to find an instrictor who actually does the type of diving you want to be trained on not just training dives with students. I have seen both top shelf programs as well as training I would send an enemy to from both agencies.. Get recomendations from people who have taken classes from the potential instructor if possible.

if you contact him tell him Joe R. from ANDI recommended him.


http://www.joediver.co.uk/contact.htm

[GDI]

:doctor:

Ask questions until you are satisfied, select an instructor you are comfortable with. Most instructors at this level teach more than one agency. TDI and IANTD are both good agencies. It boils down to the instructor.

[dcsdiving]

but i agree that it's the instructor that makes the difference.

Until recently (like just before DEMA), IANTD limited their trimix qualification to 240 or 250 fsw, while TDI trained to 330fsw. With their revised standards, IANTD will qualify trimix divers to 330fsw, and even has something called expedition trimix to 400fsw.

In my experience, TDI standards allow more freedom for variance between instructors than do the IANTD standards.

I haven't seen the PADI trimix program, bit if the standards follow the Tec Deep program, they will be very prescriptive (that is, do this now, do that then). The depth limit for PADI is 245fsw.

geoff

[flw]

dcsdiving once bubbled...
but i agree that it's the instructor that makes the difference.

Until recently (like just before DEMA), IANTD limited their trimix qualification to 240 or 250 fsw, while TDI trained to 330fsw. With their revised standards, IANTD will qualify trimix divers to 330fsw, and even has something called expedition trimix to 400fsw.

In my experience, TDI standards allow more freedom for variance between instructors than do the IANTD standards.

I haven't seen the PADI trimix program, bit if the standards follow the Tec Deep program, they will be very prescriptive (that is, do this now, do that then). The depth limit for PADI is 245fsw.

geoff

Since it's the skills that you are learning, which are essentially the same for all agencies, the actual depth for which you are 'qualified to' is an irrelevance, and therefore a red herring in choosing an instructor
By the time anyone starts to contemplate dives in the 300ft range a certificate gains you nothing - the required skills can only be learned over time and in water - dives of this type are (almost) always invitation only and rarely 'open' which will require you to have dived with the group before, and no-one is going to ask for a certificate.

[dcsdiving]

A training depth limit of 330fsw (for example) allows dives to these depths withing the training course, under the supervision of an instructor. arguably an added measure of safety....

after the program is over, then divers will do what they want, whether they have the experience or not.

[flw]

dcsdiving once bubbled...
A training depth limit of 330fsw (for example) allows dives to these depths withing the training course, under the supervision of an instructor. arguably an added measure of safety....

.


We're arguing about the difference between 250 and 330 ft - I don't know any instructor who would take an inexperienced gas diver on a 100m open water dive, nor would I be happy about being on a boat where it was going on.

Below 90ishm it takes more planning, thinking about what happens if someone comes off the line for any reason, run times of 2 or 3 hours etc - not for anyones early gas dives

What is important is the skills to give a good solid base to build up experience once qualified

[dcsdiving]

flw once bubbled...



We're arguing

not sure i am arguing the point about basic skills. depth limits for training are maximums.

if my students aren't comfortable at the maximum depths in my classes we don't go there (not mix classes, since i'm not a mix instructor). i can still train them to standards and well without exposing them to the maximum depths. on the other hand, if they are comfortable, it's nice to have the latitude of going there with them.

making the decision to go to depth is something i do with my students, but if i'm not sure of their skills, we stay at the shallower end of training limits.

i'm not clear about the point of your initial reply. if you are saying don't go deep till you have the skills, i agree. if you're saying the depth allowed by standards in training is irrelevant, i disagree for reasons i've stated. if you're saying somethng else, i'm not clear about it.

[Dive4Life]

I would definitely go IANTD. I am going through a IANTD Deco course at this moment and I am loving it. Living in Miami where the IANTD world headquarters is located is nice as well. We also have the DIR or GUE headquarters just 45 min north as well. I honestly don't know much about TDI but I do no that IANTD uses VPM decompression models for there tables and they recommend you use that one but they will teach you all of them. I have also purchased the Technical Diver Encyclopedia (this is the text book for all IANTD classes from Deco through full TRIMIX) and have found this a great reference guide. I would go IANTD all the way. Just my opinion, I am new to the tech world and I am sure that there are many better opinions out there than my own.

[MikeFerrara]

I've taken both IANTD and TDI courses and I'm an IANTD Advanced Nitrox instructor.

The Standards for the two trimix classes are similar. The max training depth in the IANTD class has been bumped up (I think it's 300 ft now). The IANTD standards can be viewed on there website.

I took the IANTD normoxic trimix class because of the instructor and I took the TDI advanced trimix class because of the instructor. If I ever took another class it'd be because of the instructor.

[IndigoBlue]

the_dumper once bubbled...
I have got to a point where I am doing 200ft dives on air and getting well narked, so I guess it's about time to move onto Trimix.
Where I live it's a choice of TDI or IANTD anyone got anything to say about the pros and cons in the different courses that they both offer.

I have friends who get narked at 80 ft and friends who seem perfectly normal at 185 ft on air.

The beautiful thing about helium in your mix is that you can mix your gas so that every dive is like a 100 ft dive, or even like an 85 ft dive if you like.

Here are some questions to put to your respective TDI and IANTD instructors to compare them:

1. Will we be diving with prescribed deco tables, or will we be allowed to use any deco tables or software programs of our choice?

2. What technical skills will we be practicing? (See how many he(she) mentions)

bubble checks
post drills
spare mask deployment
air sharing drills
silt-out procedures
deco bottle exchanging
gas switching stops
lift bag deployment
reel usage
spool usage
etc

3. What deco mixes will we use?

EAN36
EAN50
EAN80
100% O2

4. What trimixes will we use? (generally, the higher % He the better for a given planned depth)

[MikeFerrara]

Most of those skills are required in any trimix class as well as most other technical class starting with Advanced Nitrox (IANTD)

While you want an instructor who's thorough and doesn't skip any requirements I think you need more than that. I think it's important to have an instructor who has attitudes and philosophies as you do with respect to gasses, decompression, team diving or whatever is important to you. You also want some one who does it for real and doesn't just teach.

In the mix class that I just took the TDI required material was only a fraction of what the course covered. The instructor had several hours of his own material that was presented and discussed. I say discussed because he dives the same caves and wrecks that I do so there was a lot of discussion as apposed to lecture. Since he has plenty of experience in the environments that I dive and that I want to dive there was plenty to learn that had little to do with the text or course requirements. The dives were real dives (not bounce dives just to get the depth) and the team (students) planned, briefed, executed and debriefed the dives. Of course there were a few surprise drills thrown in here and there also.

[divereh]

The course is only as good as the instructor. Colt Ceek Diving in Newmarket offers TDI IANTD as well as the new DSAT Tri-Mix course. They will take care of you

[the_dumper]

Not sure if my Mrs would be to happy about me going to Canada to do a course.:)

But if they fancy coming to London...

[d33ps1x]

the_dumper.

I like the photo on your website. From the 2003 wreck photo contest right? Julian Calverley. Excellent shot.

[the_dumper]

It was a scan of print that I paid a small fortune for a few years ago, off a guy called Julian Calverley.
He now knocks them out in their hundreds check more of his work out here (http://www.calverley.co.uk/port/underwater.asp?page=water1&item=JCP034).
I bought a few more recently but the original signed one is my favourite.

[the_dumper]

d33ps1x
I know where there are thousands of them if you are ever in the UK:D .

[d33ps1x]

hehe

They are very difficult to find here.

Sneaky little devils. :out:

[cattrax]

Try Captain's Corner in Key West, Fla. I received my Advanced Nitrox thru a TDI course there. MY instructor was Bob Camus jr. He teaches both agencies and advanced trimix.