GUE Tech 1

[dsgobie]

I've been searching the board for any information on this course. I can't find anything. The DIR/fund class is beat to death, but I would like to hear from anyone who has taken this course.

What were your experiences?

Would you recommend it?

If you could do it over, would you use another agency?

Did you get what you expected out of the course?


ds

[WJL]

Relatively few people take GUE's Tech1 class each year, and of those that do, few are members of this board. I don't remember any Tech1 class reports being posted here. That being said, I know that BCS, Scot and wb416 from this board, among others, were in a Tech1 class in August in Ontario. Scot and BCS (Brandon) are GUE Fundamentals instructors, you can reach them at their web site www.scubaguys.com (http://www.scubaguys.com). I imagine they will be happy to tell you about the class and what to expect.

[dsgobie]

Thanks for the reply.

I have a chance to take the course here in Feb.

Thanks for the POC's.

D

[vlada]

Took it with Dan MacKay in Kingston

it was am amazing class, learnt a lot and i am a way better diver after it

If you want details, please PM me

Vlada

[boomx5]

Delia has a real nice trip report from her Tech1 class postedHere (http://www.baue.org/reports/index.html).

[patmandu]

There are a couple of reports on my website

http://www.northeastdir.com they are located in the 'library' section.

You'll find a T1 report written by me and one by another individual. There's also a report on my cave 1 course as well.

please let me know ifyou have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them

Patrick

[dsgobie]

Thanks for all the posts.. Sorry it took me so long to get back to you all. The network has been down for the past couple of days here in my office.

I'll post more when I get a free minute.

d

[wb416]

WJL once bubbled...
Relatively few people take GUE's Tech1 class each year, and of those that do, few are members of this board. I don't remember any Tech1 class reports being posted here. That being said, I know that BCS, Scot and wb416 from this board, among others, were in a Tech1 class in August in Ontario. Scot and BCS (Brandon) are GUE Fundamentals instructors, you can reach them at their web site www.scubaguys.com (http://www.scubaguys.com). I imagine they will be happy to tell you about the class and what to expect.


What... and relive the trauma of that event?? :wacko:

My therapist says I'm progressing well, but I still wake up with colds sweats and hear circus music in the background. Sometimes I even catch myself whistling "...if I only had a braaaaaain!" :fork:

bob

[Big-t-2538]

wb416 once bubbled...

Sometimes I even catch myself whistling "...if I only had a braaaaaain!" :fork:

bob Only Sometimes?:poking:

[wb416]

Big-t-2538 once bubbled...
Only Sometimes?:poking:

You improperly read the modifiers. "I sometimes catch" myself, not "I sometimes whistle {tune}"

Sheesh... :boom:

[Big-t-2538]

wb416 once bubbled...


You improperly read the modifiers. "I sometimes catch" myself, not "I sometimes whistle {tune}"

Sheesh... :boom: Ahh...let the record show I screwed up....I am sure this is not a first....situation back to normal

[HolgerS]

I am diving for 12 years, being an active CMAS instructor and did the DIR-Fundamentals and the Tech-1 class this year!

Amazing, I relearnt diving! My personal opinion: in comparison to all courses from all agencies I watched so far, GUE has the REAL concept teaching for Tech. Very tough but really teaching the obvious right things for diving tech safely and challengingly.

I personally have decided to go for the Tech2 class also and to adapt my own Advanced Nitrox classes to GUE Tech1 classes!

I recommend everyone pursueing REAL tech diving to go for GUE.

Safe diving
:) HolgerS

[Manos]

SOme tech 1 articles in my webpage.

Regards Manos

http://www.dir.cy.net/dirf.html

[flw]

HolgerS once bubbled...
I am diving for 12 years, being an active CMAS instructor and did the DIR-Fundamentals and the Tech-1 class this year!

Amazing, I relearnt diving! My personal opinion: in comparison to all courses from all agencies I watched so far, GUE has the REAL concept teaching for Tech. Very tough but really teaching the obvious right things for diving tech safely and challengingly.

I personally have decided to go for the Tech2 class also and to adapt my own Advanced Nitrox classes to GUE Tech1 classes!

I recommend everyone pursueing REAL tech diving to go for GUE.

Safe diving
:) HolgerS

While I'm sure GUE are just fine, they really aren't an option for many areas, and there are plenty of very good instructors around, yuou just have to find them - the agency is irrelevant, it's the instructor that counts - it is easy to forget that there are plenty of non dir groups around doing plenty of 'real' tech diving, whatever that means

F
( Grumpy today)

[roakey]

flw once bubbled...
...and there are plenty of very good instructors around, you just have to find them...
And in there lies the rub... Using the premise that your skills aren't very good and that the vast majority of divers out there skill's aren't very good and the vast majority of instructors out there skill's aren't very good, how to you go about finding the good ones?

You can't rely on yourself (you don't have the skills to recognize a good instructor).

You can't rely on others (the vast majority of them don't have the skills to recognize a good instructor).

You can't rely on the instructor, because even the bad ones (maybe *especially* the bad ones) think they walk on water.

At this point in time the only guarantee of getting a good instructor is going to GUE, due to the other agencies lack of quality.

Roak

Ps. Ever notice how *every* OW student's instructor was absolutely fantastic? They don't know good from bad. When I walked into my GUE Cave I class I didn't know good from bad. After that class I knew better, but the DIR-F class a couple years later took that knowledge even further, though even now I'm by no means an expert...

[chrpai]

roakey once bubbled...

And in there lies the rub... At this point in time the only guarantee of getting a good instructor is going to GUE, due to the other agencies lack of quality.


I love this Internet brainwashing that GUE has perfect instructors and perfect students. Someone is trying very hard to change "its not the agency its the instructors" to "its not the instructors its the agency".

If all the instructors for all the other agencies are so damn bad, show me the body bags.

[roakey]

chrpai once bubbled...
If all the instructors for all the other agencies are so damn bad, show me the body bags.
Read Alert Diver sometime.

If you've got an answer to the question, "How does someone looking for better skills separate the good instructors from the bad ones, when you lack the skills to make the determination yourself?" I'd like to hear it.

Otherwise GUE at the moment [did you get that part? It's in my first post too] is the only guarantee.

Roak (a far from perfect student, wherw do you antis come up with this stuff?)

[Genesis]

... should not be part of your class.

With GUE it is, unfortunately.

[Northeastwrecks]

Genesis once bubbled...
... should not be part of your class.

With GUE it is, unfortunately.

Is this based upon your experience during one of the many GUE courses you taken?

In fact, this statement is simply untrue. My GUE instructor is happy to tell you that, after or outside of the class, whether you choose to adopt the system you've just paid to learn is up to you. Then he tells you why it works as well as it does.

[chrpai]

roakey once bubbled...

Read Alert Diver sometime.

If you've got an answer to the question, "How does someone looking for better skills separate the good instructors from the bad ones, when you lack the skills to make the determination yourself?" I'd like to hear it.


First off its a mute point because GUE doesn't teach at the OW level anyways. So the beginner diver doesn't have access to this "guaranteed" solution.

Second off since GUE advertises on the internet and then flys in, the student never really has the chance to evaluate first hand prior to the class the compentencies of the instructor.

Third off, your assumption that all instructors for a given agency are perfect and that its a crap shoot with every other agency is just pure bull ****.

Have you personally evaluated every single instructor that GUE has? If not, how can you make the guarantee?

[Genesis]

Have you personally evaluated every single instructor that GUE has? If not, how can you make the guarantee?

If you did not tell a psychotherapist what this was pertaining to, and listed the kind of "conversion experiences" that people have with GUE, they would run away screaming "cult cult cult cult!"

Which is exactly what it looks like to many, myself included.

I'd love to see ANY agency guarantee that YOU (as a student), POST CLASS, when you are potentially able to judge whether you got good value or not, would find that you DID and that you found your instructor competent ONCE ABLE TO MAKE THE JUDGEMENT - and if you did not, they would (1) refund your fee, and (2) refund all your expenses to take the class (e.g. boat trips, gas, etc.)

Of course NO agency would do this, because it would mean that they would have to actually insure that their people were competent AND got good ratings, otherwise THEY would end up eating huge sums of cash.

(This is not an indictment of ONE agency - its an indictment of all!)

[Big-t-2538]

Why do you guys have to go and ruin a perfectly good trip report thread?

Seriously...find something better to do with your time.

[chrpai]

Big-t-2538 once bubbled...
Why do you guys have to go and ruin a perfectly good trip report thread?

Seriously...find something better to do with your time.

This was never a trip report thread, it was a potential tech student asking which agency to use.

The koolaid drinking regulator made a rediculous claim and now you, another koolaid drinker, is pissed off that we could possibly have another point of view.

[Northeastwrecks]

chrpai once bubbled...
First off its a mute point because GUE doesn't teach at the OW level anyways.

What is a "mute" point. A point that lacks the power of speech? If so, why is that relevant to this discussion?

Perhaps you mean "moot", a point that is "of no practical importance; irrelevant."

Aren't dictionaries wonderful things?

So, Chrpai, which tech agency provided your technical training? Can you compare the training you received to that of other technical training agencies?

Or is this just another rant?


The koolaid drinking regulator made a rediculous claim and now you, another koolaid drinker, is pissed off that we could possibly have another point of view.

Is this supposed to be written in the English language?

[chrpai]

Northeastwrecks once bubbled...



Is this supposed to be written in the English language?

Obviously there is no merit to your argument since you can only attack grammer.

As far as the issue of tech training to compare against.... it doesn't seem to stop anyone else who only have OW and DIR-F in there taglines.

[Big-t-2538]

chrpai once bubbled...


This was never a trip report thread, it was a potential tech student asking which agency to use.
Actually, if your half-educated ass could read, you would see the inital poster asked specfically about a GUE Tech 1 class...

There was about a dozen or so useful posts helping him make that decision before you flame throwing DIR hating trolls stuck your nose into something you know diddly 5H!T about.

And for the record...I hate koolaid

[Big-t-2538]

chrpai once bubbled...

it doesn't seem to stop anyone else who only have OW and DIR-F in there taglines. Seriously...get a grip and go buy some hooked on phonics...you might be able to then read the title of the forum: "General Tek Discussiuons"...clearly you have lots of useful info to add to this discussion about a specfifc tech class you've taken with GUE or otherwise.

[Genesis]

So Kool-Aid references are very appropriate today.

[wb416]

Big-t-2538 once bubbled...
Seriously...get a grip and go buy some hooked on phonics...you might be able to then read the title of the forum: "General Tek Discussiuons"...clearly you have lots of useful info to add to this discussion about a specfifc tech class you've taken with GUE or otherwise.

Careful... I seem to recall a particular saying regarding "...people that live in glass houses...", and another about "...wrestling with a pig...".

[Northeastwrecks]

Northeastwrecks once bubbled...
So, Chrpai, which tech agency provided your technical training? Can you compare the training you received to that of other technical training agencies?

Funny, I thought that I did ask you a question.

[chrpai]

Big-t-2538 once bubbled...
Seriously...get a grip and go buy some hooked on phonics...you might be able to then read the title of the forum: "General Tek Discussiuons"...clearly you have lots of useful info to add to this discussion about a specfifc tech class you've taken with GUE or otherwise.

NAUI-DM, IANTD Nitrox, GUE Fundamentals


Why don't you answer your own question? I'm waiting to hear all about your extensive technical diving experience.

[Big-t-2538]

wb416 once bubbled...


Careful... I seem to recall a particular saying regarding "...people that live in glass houses...", and another about "...wrestling with a pig...". I know...I'm just a little on the easily pissed off side this morning...I would have kept my mouth shut...or...keyboard silent if I hadn't read his response to my appreciation of the trip reports that were posted earlier in this thread....I know I don't have a lot to add...but I have loads to gain from reading those reports...Frankly, I find your web page most informative...thanks for keeping a nice documentary of your transition bob...I for one have enjoyed reading it!

I know I'm probably going to take a slap on the wrist for calling him half-educated and all...oh well...it's not a first....probably won't be a last...

[Big-t-2538]

chrpai once bubbled...


Why don't you answer your own question? I'm waiting to hear all about your extensive technical diving experience. Seriously...LEARN to READ!!!! Cram your pie-hole full of something for a while and read. When you find my question in this thread...other than "Why do you guys have to go and ruin a perfectly good trip report thread?" Let me know

[BigJetDriver]

roakey once bubbled...
....At this point in time the only guarantee of getting a good instructor is going to GUE, due to the other agencies lack of quality....


:rolleyes: Now here is an outstanding example of the kind of sheer arrogance that really hacks everybody off!!!

It assumes that ALL divers seeking training are too stupid to ask questions, seek references, and make ANY decisions on their own. They must, of course, be led by the nose-ring to the "ONLY" font of wisdom!

It also assumes that the rest of us are about to believe that ALL OTHER INSTRUCTORS (i.e. those who have not been blessed by the GUE wave of the hand and kissing of the ring) are incompetent!

The effrontery and arrogance of this kind of statement is truly breath-taking, but, unfortunately, typical of what we have come to know as fanatical cultist behaviour.:fury:

...And, yes, like Fiona, I find that I am a bit grumpy today, having been up all night helping people affected by the storm in our area yesterday.

Nevertheless, the statement that: "No one knows the right way but those of us who follow THE PATH" reminds me of a certain guru named Jones, who did, in fact, say: "Drink this Kool-Aid. It's GOOD for you!"

:fire:

[chrpai]

BigJetDriver69 once bubbled...


:rolleyes: Now here is an outstanding example of the kind of sheer arrogance that really hacks everybody off!!!



I couldn't say it better.

PS- When the hell are we going diving my fellow Houstonian?

[flw]

I don't have anything against GUE, but I still disagree with roaky.
The concept that a diver is incapable of working out who is good and bad and therefore they are the only viable option is a nonsense. It does depend on exactly what you want to learn as well.
To be fair I have never knowingly met a GUE trained diver, I do however know plenty of very competant IANTD trained ones. Every area has it's own self selecting groups that are actually doing the diving in a given area, usually using techniques that work for a given set of conditions etc - it's a matter of finding out who they are and speaking to them to find out who the good instructors are.

[wb416]

Big-t-2538 once bubbled...
I know...I'm just a little on the easily pissed off side this morning...I would have kept my mouth shut...or...keyboard silent if I hadn't read his response to my appreciation of the trip reports that were posted earlier in this thread....I know I don't have a lot to add...but I have loads to gain from reading those reports...

It's easy to get caught up in it... but remember the end result... it's all about having fun with your diving... it's not good to try and force anyone to do anything they're not interested in doing. You give your testimonial... let them know what's out there... and let them make their own decisions just like someone let you make yours.

I'd also like to add that GUE doesn't have a monopoly on good instructors, although IMHO, it certainly helps increase the odds significantly of finding a good one. There are non-GUE instructors out there that are every bit as passionate and particular about the knowledge they pass on as GUE instructors, although again, I'd like to add, that every GUE instructor I've met so far has a pretty high level of excitement and passion about what they're doing and teaching.

Everyone has to make a choice that they can live with. What's yours going to be?



Frankly, I find your web page most informative...thanks for keeping a nice documentary of your transition bob...I for one have enjoyed reading it!

thanks... I read some of that stuff now and wonder... "what was I thinking??" It's also useful for reminding me where I came from and how far I have yet to go...



I know I'm probably going to take a slap on the wrist for calling him half-educated and all...oh well...it's not a first....probably won't be a last...
hey.... what's one more bruise?

bob

[Big-t-2538]

wb416 once bubbled...
I'd also like to add that GUE doesn't have a monopoly on good instructors, although IMHO, it certainly helps increase the odds significantly of finding a good one. There are non-GUE instructors out there that are every bit as passionate and particular about the knowledge they pass on as GUE instructors, although again, I'd like to add, that so far every GUE instructor I've met so far has a pretty high level of excitement and passion about what they're doing and teaching.
I whole heartedly agree with this statement, and respectully disagree with roak. Not everyone is going to find a perfect instructor with GUE. It is a fact, you can't please the world. There are a number of instructors who are very passionate about their diving, their students, and their student's diving. Those all happen to be traits I found with the 4 GUE instructors I've met, and with at least 4 others I've met personally who are by no means a GUE instructors...

I apologize to all for my earlier rant...I was probably out of line...

And Bob...keep the good stuff coming!!

[wb416]

BigJetDriver69 once bubbled...


:rolleyes: Now here is an outstanding example of the kind of sheer arrogance that really hacks everybody off!!!

It assumes that ALL divers seeking training are too stupid to ask questions, seek references, and make ANY decisions on their own. They must, of course, be led by the nose-ring to the "ONLY" font of wisdom!

It also assumes that the rest of us are about to believe that ALL OTHER INSTRUCTORS (i.e. those who have not been blessed by the GUE wave of the hand and kissing of the ring) are incompetent!

The effrontery and arrogance of this kind of statement is truly breath-taking, but, unfortunately, typical of what we have come to know as fanatical cultist behaviour.:fury:

...And, yes, like Fiona, I find that I am a bit grumpy today, having been up all night helping people affected by the storm in our area yesterday.

Nevertheless, the statement that: "No one knows the right way but those of us who follow THE PATH" reminds me of a certain guru named Jones, who did, in fact, say: "Drink this Kool-Aid. It's GOOD for you!"

:fire:

I understand what you're saying, they get under my skin too.

However, I hope that the "wide net" you cast in your post regarding "cultist behavior" is simply a reaction to some posts you disagreed with, and not, rather, a reflection on my posts or those like Uncle Pug that are simply trying to share what we've experienced.

Take what you want from my posts, but I'm not interested in arguing or berating anyone into anything... your choice alone.

regards,
bob

[BigJetDriver]

Bob,


You are quite correct. I am not against the DIR style of doing things, nor am I against GUE as a teaching group. I have many friends, particularly instructors in the cave diving community, who dive and teach that style. I have learned much from them.

I am against arrogance. I am against the kind of statement that displays "cultist" arrogance. That's all.

As for our ancient and honourable Uncle Pug, I hope he never stops writing. I howl with laughter at his stories!:D

[cornfed]

roakey once bubbled...
Ever notice how *every* OW student's instructor was absolutely fantastic? They don't know good from bad.

So is *every* real estate agent, what's your point?

[cornfed]

Big-t-2538 once bubbled...
Seriously...find something better to do with your time.

Like what playing darts or watching people make left turns? :D

[cornfed]

Northeastwrecks once bubbled...


What is a "mute" point. A point that lacks the power of speech? If so, why is that relevant to this discussion?

Perhaps you mean "moot", a point that is "of no practical importance; irrelevant."

Aren't dictionaries wonderful things?


Rule number one (no not that rule one) of the Karl_in_Calif Memorial Ad Hominem Society is: "Don't use dictionaries to help with your posts"

Option one : Without a doubt, type it out!

[cornfed]

This is a very interesting thread. First we have an ad hominem.

Northeastwrecks once bubbled...
Is this supposed to be written in the English language?
Followed by a counter ad hominem.

chrpai once bubbled...
Obviously there is no merit to your argument since you can only attack grammer.
Very interesting, indeed.

[cornfed]

Genesis once bubbled...
So Kool-Aid references are very appropriate today.

This might be the most useful piece of information in this thread!

[Tibbs]

chrpai once bubbled...


I love this Internet brainwashing that GUE has perfect instructors and perfect students. Someone is trying very hard to change "its not the agency its the instructors" to "its not the instructors its the agency".

If all the instructors for all the other agencies are so damn bad, show me the body bags.

The GUE instructor I know who teaches Tech 1 went to an ITC (instructor training course), interned on 2 courses, led a course whilst being assessed, has to demonstrate thet he is diving regularly to the standard that he is teaching and is reassessed every three years.

The TDI instructor I know received a phone call after he passed his Trimix course "Send me a cheque for £20 and we'll send you a trimix instructor's ticket"

Can you spot the difference?

Chris

[flw]

Since the UK only has one GUE instructor, I don't think a random sample of 1 is very helpful one way or another - if the figures on the gue website are accurate, he isn't actually _ that_ experienced in gas diving comparatively speaking anyway -especially if you take caves out of the equation.
TDI probably does have it's share of inexperienced and/or poor instructors - however it also has it's share of very experienced and good instructors - if you spend any time talking a course through with an instructor, it'll become apparant fairly early on how much experience actually _in_ the water they have.
What you need is an instructor that has been around long enough to have already seen every possible CF you could contemplate making beforehand, and hopefully to be able to pre-empt a student making them - a good instructor will probably have been around in one way or another longer than gue have been in existance.

[pwfletcher]

Tibbs once bubbled...


The GUE instructor I know who teaches Tech 1 went to an ITC (instructor training course), interned on 2 courses, led a course whilst being assessed, has to demonstrate thet he is diving regularly to the standard that he is teaching and is reassessed every three years.

The TDI instructor I know received a phone call after he passed his Trimix course "Send me a cheque for £20 and we'll send you a trimix instructor's ticket"

Can you spot the difference?

Chris


Hmmm ... I do not know anything about TDI. However, after that crazy statement I had to find out if what you said is true. Apparently, it is not. Click the following link to find out what it takes to be an Entry Level Trimix Instructor for TDI:

http://www.divetekadventures.com/Classes/InstructionInstructorTrimixEL.htm

It takes significantly more than you indicated!

[roakey]

The usual misquotes and bad assumptions, I should have know better…

I never said that you had to be GUE trained to be good.

I never said that only GUE instructors are good.

Given the reactions from almost all divers that have taken the DIRF class (paraphrased: “Oh my gawd, I thought I was a good diver but he DIRF showed me otherwise!”) it appears that most are ill-equipped to determine if an instructor is good or not. This was true of me, too.

These are the facts, deal with them; ranting doesn’t change them.

Roak

[pwfletcher]

roakey once bubbled...


These are the facts, deal with them; ranting doesn’t change them.

Roak


Just out of curiousity ... what are the facts again? All that I have seen so far is opinion and speculation. Sorry, I had to ask.

[roakey]

pwfletcher once bubbled...
Just out of curiousity ... what are the facts again? All that I have seen so far is opinion and speculation. Sorry, I had to ask.
Must be a product of public education...

The facts again:

I never said that you had to be GUE trained to be good.

I never said that only GUE instructors are good.

Almost all divers that have taken the DIRF class have been amazed at being shown a ton of stuff that they had no idea about before the class.

Of course, understanding the facts above would have simply required reading my post for actual comprehension, rather than taking the easy way out and simpley posting a cute quip. If you feel that any of these are not actual facts, I'm more than willing to discuss them, but supply counter examples, not just the typical anti-DIR whining as you so accurately demonstrated.

Roak

[Genesis]

The facts again:

I never said that you had to be GUE trained to be good.

I never said that only GUE instructors are good.

Almost all divers that have taken the DIRF class have been amazed at being shown a ton of stuff that they had no idea about before the class.


Is this a function of the class (nobody else is offering the equivalent of a "DIRF") or of the instructors?

Could PADI/SSI/NAUI/etc offer such a class? Sure. They (at least so far) don't seem to see a reason to do so.

I would argue that the facts that are averred, accepted at face value, do not promote the case that GUE instructors are "good" in a greater proportion than any other agencies.

(Note that I'm not arguing they are - or are not - just that the facts averred do not support the conclusion being claimed.)

[pwfletcher]

roakey once bubbled...

Must be a product of public education...

Roak

Actually, I am a product of Harvard Law School. Thank you anyway for the condescension. In addition, I challenge you to find one anti-DIR post under my screen name.

Opinion Time:
It appears to me that most here do not possess an aversion to DIR methods. It is the arraogance of a few self-proclaimed disciples of GUE such as yourself that tends to sour the milk for those of us simply seeking knowledge from all sources. This has been my first DIR post ... and is most definitely the last. I enjoyed Jarrod's books, but definitely prefer not to have the negative association.

[roakey]

I keep thinking someday y'all would outgrow the behavior of picking a fight and whining when we fight back, but it's been going on for years and I guess it'll continue...

Take a DIRF class and come back here and tell us you learned nothing.

Roak

[roakey]

Genesis once bubbled...
Is this a function of the class (nobody else is offering the equivalent of a "DIRF") or of the instructors?
Very good Genesis, you saw that there's two ways to make the other agencies at par with GUE:

GUE goes into the toilet

The other agencies climb out of theirs.

There's nothing stopping the other agencies from having the level of quality that GUE currently has. But they're going to have to get rid of a ton of inferior instructors, and that means loss of revenue and, well, for that reason I'm not holding my breath.

But I can always dream...

Roak

[Northeastwrecks]

pwfletcher once bubbled...


Actually, I am a product of Harvard Law School. Thank you anyway for the condescension. In addition, I challenge you to find one anti-DIR post under my screen name.

Opinion Time:
It appears to me that most here do not possess an aversion to DIR methods. It is the arraogance of a few self-proclaimed disciples of GUE such as yourself that tends to sour the milk for those of us simply seeking knowledge from all sources. This has been my first DIR post ... and is most definitely the last. I enjoyed Jarrod's books, but definitely prefer not to have the negative association.

Oh. In that case, I'll write s-l-o-w-l-y. ;)

Roak is not being arrogant. GUE openly acknowledges that it is not intending to mass market their product. That is the fundamental difference between GUE and the other, larger, agencies.

I have not been diving with all of the GUE instructors, or even most of them. However, I can say that the GUE trained divers I've been in the water with have exhibited an overall level of competance that exceeds the level demonstrated by other divers of comparable experience. I'm far more comfortable with a GUE trained diver than I am with a diver from another agency.

That doesn't mean that non-GUE divers cannot be good, safe, skilled divers or that GUE training automatically makes someone a better diver. However, I do find far fewer issues, or none at all, when diving with a GUE trained diver who actually uses the training than when I'm with divers from other agencies. The similarity of the training and the adherance to a common set of rules results in a dive with fewer potential surprises.

[dsgobie]

I'm not surprised this thread ended up this way. I guess every GUE/DIR thread does.

I initially asked about GUE Tech 1 because I have a chance to take the course. I am leaning towards GUE because there is no other agency aside from NAUI and PADI around here.

I know that PADI and NAUI both have tech programs. But I have always associated both organizations with o/w reef divers. GUE has been associated with tech, tech, tech, and more tech.

[Northeastwrecks]

Chickdiver could probably give you more information about Naui's Tech program. I believe that she is a Naui Tech Instructor.

If you have the chance, and have taken DIR-F (I believe that its now a pre-requisite), go for it. Great course and you'll have your helium cert for normoxic when you are done.

[dsgobie]

I am defiantly taking the DIRF. I have the option of taking DIRF and then Tech 1 for $800 out the door. That includes everything.

I just don't know if I will have the time to take Tech 1. May have to wait until next year. :(

And I just put this thread up to see some others insight on the course. I did speak with a few (mostly through emails) and they were very helpful. If I had the time I would defiantly take the course.

[paulwlee]

$800 for both DIRF and Tech 1, including everything???
Does that include gas fills, boat fee and such?
If so, that's an amazing price.

For the couple of Tech 1 classes that were held in this area, the cost was significantly higher, as boat trips, gasses, and instructor expenses added up to a pretty high sum.

[dsgobie]

Yepper... It does include gases. We don't need boats over here. You can find 200+ within 100m of a bunch of dive sites. And all dive sights are within a 30min drive.

OUCH! I did find out that He is $1.00 per ft3!!!! That sounds outrageous. What are the prices around you?

[BigJetDriver]

Northeastwrecks once bubbled...
Roak is not being arrogant.

:wacko: Aha-ha-ha-ha-ha! Stop it! I'm laughing so hard I can hardly reach the keyboard! Not.... He-he-he-he!......When exactly did that come about?:rofL:

[roakey]

BigJetDriver69 once bubbled...
:wacko: Aha-ha-ha-ha-ha! Stop it! I'm laughing so hard I can hardly reach the keyboard! Not.... He-he-he-he!......When exactly did that come about?:rofL:
I questioned what I knew. I allowed my beliefs to be challenged. I changed the way I had been diving for many, many years. I was given a sound foundation such that I'm better equipped to evaluate new ideas, methods and procedures.

You, however, appear to know it all.

Just who's arrogant here?

Roak

[BigJetDriver]

:rolleyes: Heck, no, Sunny Jim, I don't know it all, nor do I claim to! I'll be learning for the rest of my life, or at least making the attempt to do so!

My problem is with people who automatically label any criticism as: "...the usual misquotes and bad assumptions..." and then go on to offer personal insult, as in: "...must be a product of public education..."! My problem is also with those same people who, having willfully and blithely offended others, seem surprised when they object, claiming that the offended parties are either: "ranting" or "whining"!

I will say this once again, for the record. No, I am not anti-DIR, nor am I anti-GUE. Both the system and the teaching of it have much that is admirable.

I truly don't give a monkey's toss, as one of our other writers puts it, if you wish to strap weights to your body with barbed-wire and dive naked. Have at it, brother. Have a good time!

But when someone says that the only way to get other agencies on a par with GUE is: "...if GUE goes into the toilet...or the other agencies climb out of theirs..." I, and most other people, define that as simplistic arrogance, deserving of contempt! :livid:

[cornfed]

roakey once bubbled...
I keep thinking someday y'all would outgrow the behavior of picking a fight and whining when we fight back, but it's been going on for years and I guess it'll continue...


"Hi, Kettle... yeah this this the Pot -- you're black!"

Sorry bud, but you pretty much started this when you put down all divers, instructors, etc.

[BigJetDriver]

cornfed once bubbled...


"Hi, Kettle... yeah this this the Pot -- you're black!"

Sorry bud, but you pretty much started this when you put down all divers, instructors, etc.

Drew,

I pretty much said the same thing to Roakey in my post above, but your comment was a lot more concise, and a heck of a lot funnier! Good one!:rofL:

[wb416]

BigJetDriver69 once bubbled...


Drew,

I pretty much said the same thing to Roakey in my post above, but your comment was a lot more concise, and a heck of a lot funnier! Good one!:rofL:

Ya know... I've reached the conclusion that it probably wouldn't matter what the topic was (i.e. guns, boats, planes, surf boards, etc), you guys would still find a way to needle each other because you get so much darn enjoyment out of it.

:D

[cornfed]

wb416 once bubbled...


Ya know... I've reached the conclusion that it probably wouldn't matter what the topic was (i.e. guns, boats, planes, surf boards, etc), you guys would still find a way to needle each other because you get so much darn enjoyment out of it.


That's what happens on rec.scuba.

[wb416]

cornfed once bubbled...


That's what happens on rec.scuba.

One can only dream that this board would have more usefulness and civility than that.... oh well.... I've been warned about having too high of expectations before...

Where's the love man?!?

[boomx5]

It's threads like this that help this place degenerate into rec.scubaboard.com. For me Scubaboard used to be a place I enjoyed visiting but lately with all the sockpuppets and people arguing DIR against Anti-DIR it's getting very old. Yes, I've taken GUE classes. Yes, I think it's a very good diving education. Yes, I will recommend it to anyone who is interested; and no I won't shove it down anybody's throat. No, I don't care if everyone is GUE trained. No, I don't think it's for everyone. No, I don't think people who are not GUE trained are strokes. I could go on and on but it just don't matter. There are arrogent people on both sides of the fence. I've had "non-DIR" people slam me without me saying anything about DIR or even taking the time to get to know me; but honestly I could care less. I know alot of great divers who are good people who are not GUE trained and it just don't friggin matter to me! The minute you people start getting overly worked up over this stuff is the minute you need to turn off the computer and go diving; but that's just my opinion.

[roakey]

cornfed once bubbled...
Sorry bud, but you pretty much started this when you put down all divers, instructors, etc.
Not once, not twice but THREE times I made darn sure I stated that it's not all divers or instructors.

Are you so worked up you can't read what I wrote through the spittle on your screen?

Or do you have a comprehension problem?

Roak

[roakey]

Let’s try this one more time. I’ll use little words, even.

The oft repeated quote “It’s not the agency, it’s the instructor” is an ADMISSION that agencies have bad instructors that you have to avoid.

My ONLY point is that at this point in time you are guaranteed to get a good instructor if you go to GUE, not so with the other agencies, as ANYONE who has uttered the statement “It’s not the agency, it’s the instructor” has to agree with, because it’s a tautology (ok, one big word, go find a dictionary).

Roak

[MechDiver]

roakey once bubbled...

The oft repeated quote “It’s not the agency, it’s the instructor” is an ADMISSION that agencies have bad instructors that you have to avoid.

My ONLY point is that at this point in time you are guaranteed to get a good instructor if you go to GUE, not so with the other agencies, as ANYONE who has uttered the statement “It’s not the agency, it’s the instructor” has to agree with, because it’s a tautology (ok, one big word, go find a dictionary).

Roak

Although I pretty well agree Roak, I think you're casting the net a little widely. Alot of issues that have been answered by that statement have been with standards between agencies, teaching methods, and personalities. I don't see the only reason being a bad instructor.
And, although someone can be a very accomplished instructor, they may also be a total dufus. I don't see any agency immune to that.

MD

[wb416]

roakey once bubbled...
Let’s try this one more time. I’ll use little words, even.

The oft repeated quote “It’s not the agency, it’s the instructor” is an ADMISSION that agencies have bad instructors that you have to avoid.

My ONLY point is that at this point in time you are guaranteed to get a good instructor if you go to GUE, not so with the other agencies, as ANYONE who has uttered the statement “It’s not the agency, it’s the instructor” has to agree with, because it’s a tautology (ok, one big word, go find a dictionary).

Roak


pssssstttt... I think someone charged your fire extinguisher with gasoline instead of an oxygen inhibitor.... or should we change your title from "regulator" to "catalyst"? :D

[cornfed]

roakey once bubbled...

Not once, not twice but THREE times I made darn sure I stated that it's not all divers or instructors.

Are you so worked up you can't read what I wrote through the spittle on your screen?

Or do you have a comprehension problem?

Well, let's see...

Up until you got involved in this thread thread it wasn't much more then “here's a link to a tech 1 report”. Then flw said, “that's nice but GUE is so small there might not be and instructor near by but don't worry there are plenty of non-GUE people who are good instructors.” To which you replied,


Using the premise that your skills aren't very good and that the vast majority of divers out there skill's aren't very good and the vast majority of instructors out there skill's aren't very good, how to you go about finding the good ones?
<snip>
At this point in time the only guarantee of getting a good instructor is going to GUE, due to the other agencies lack of quality.

So yeah, I'd say you put down all other agencies. But then again, you aren't the first person to question my reading comprehension so it probably isn't that good.

Frankly I don't care if you corrected or clarified your statement two, three or four times because it doesn't change the fact you started this ball rolling. Your later statement about anti-DIR people picking fights and then whining when people like you fight back is totally unfounded.

Oh, and I'm not the one all worked up here.

[BigJetDriver]

Okay, Drew, have you been drooling over that Victoria's Secret computer screensaver again? Tsk, tsk!;)

I'm beginning to think that someone is sneaking in and sending posts to the board while Roakey is out diving. First he talks about other agencies being in the toilet, and says that other writers are "products of public education" or, as in your case, that they can't read.

Then the "real" Roakey comes back and says: "I never said any of that, and, besides, all of you are whiners anyway!"

This multiple personality stuff is hard to keep track of, isn't it?:confused:

[cornfed]

BigJetDriver69 once bubbled...
Okay, Drew, have you been drooling over that Victoria's Secret computer screensaver again? Tsk, tsk!;)


My wife has been out of town for a couple of days... (hangs head in shame)

[dsgobie]

BACK ON SUBJECT. What about GUE Tech 1? If you all want to keep on arguing about the principles of instruction then start your own G.D. thread.

Because of crap like this, the search function on this board is useless.

There is too much effort involved, to find any useful information on this board because of this ****. I have surf through 190 threads, only to find out that 90% of the post are complete bull**** and WAY off topic!

I thought someone was assigned a job to keep this from happening.



On track..


WJL once bubbled...
Relatively few people take GUE's Tech1 class each year, and of those that do, few are members of this board. I don't remember any Tech1 class reports being posted here. That being said, I know that BCS, Scot and wb416 from this board, among others, were in a Tech1 class in August in Ontario. Scot and BCS (Brandon) are GUE Fundamentals instructors, you can reach them at their web site www.scubaguys.com (http://www.scubaguys.com). I imagine they will be happy to tell you about the class and what to expect.


vlada once bubbled...
Took it with Dan MacKay in Kingston

it was am amazing class, learnt a lot and i am a way better diver after it

If you want details, please PM me

Vlada [/QUOTE


[QUOTE]boomx5 once bubbled...
Delia has a real nice trip report from her Tech1 class postedHere (http://www.baue.org/reports/index.html).


patmandu once bubbled...
There are a couple of reports on my website

http://www.northeastdir.com they are located in the 'library' section.

You'll find a T1 report written by me and one by another individual. There's also a report on my cave 1 course as well.

please let me know ifyou have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them

Patrick


HolgerS once bubbled...
I am diving for 12 years, being an active CMAS instructor and did the DIR-Fundamentals and the Tech-1 class this year!

Amazing, I relearnt diving! My personal opinion: in comparison to all courses from all agencies I watched so far, GUE has the REAL concept teaching for Tech. Very tough but really teaching the obvious right things for diving tech safely and challengingly.

I personally have decided to go for the Tech2 class also and to adapt my own Advanced Nitrox classes to GUE Tech1 classes!

I recommend everyone pursueing REAL tech diving to go for GUE.

Safe diving
:) HolgerS


Manos once bubbled...
SOme tech 1 articles in my webpage.

Regards Manos

http://www.dir.cy.net/dirf.html


Northeastwrecks once bubbled...
Chickdiver could probably give you more information about Naui's Tech program. I believe that she is a Naui Tech Instructor.

If you have the chance, and have taken DIR-F (I believe that its now a pre-requisite), go for it. Great course and you'll have your helium cert for normoxic when you are done.


paulwlee once bubbled...
$800 for both DIRF and Tech 1, including everything???
Does that include gas fills, boat fee and such?
If so, that's an amazing price.

For the couple of Tech 1 classes that were held in this area, the cost was significantly higher, as boat trips, gasses, and instructor expenses added up to a pretty high sum.




IMHO the rest of the post's are
Northeastwrecks once bubbled...


"moot", a point that is "of no practical importance; irrelevant."


[/B]

[Spectre]

cornfed once bubbled...
So yeah, I'd say you put down all other agencies. But then again, you aren't the first person to question my reading comprehension so it probably isn't that good.


Ok.. I've had enough requests to look at this thing, that I actually did.

In all honesty, I've got to agree with Roakey. No, I've not taken a GUE course... but:

How many people have heard of a DIR-F grad realizing later that their instructor wasn't all they thought they were cracked up to be at the time they took the class?

Yes, my OW instructor was great... until I learned better. My AOW instructors were great... until I learned better. My Cavern instructor was great.... I got lucky. My Adv Nitrox/Deco/mix instructor prospects looked great, then I started to figure out what I really was looking for, and went off in search of a new instructor... who, of course, is great.

Roakey's point is just being missed by everyone. He's not blanket bashing. He's pointing out that if you blindly choose an instructor from any agency, there is a chance you'll get someone that isn't any good. You might have questions you are going to ask to gauge if they are a good instructor, but how do you really know until you figure out what you _didn't_ learn in your class? You don't know what questions you need to ask until after you take the class. So you really are running on faith for any instructor you choose... because you're not going to know the questions you needed to ask until after.

[chrpai]

Spectre once bubbled...

Yes, my OW instructor was great... until I learned better.

Roakey's point is just being missed by everyone. He's not blanket bashing. He's pointing out that if you blindly choose an instructor from any agency, there is a chance you'll get someone that isn't any good.


My OW instructor was great. I didn't realize that at the time, but when I found out how crappy my AOW instructor was I did.

Now I might accept Roakey's point, if that is what he actually said. But it wasn't. He clearly stated that there wasn't any chance you'd get someone bad from GUE. Clearly different from what you are saying he said. And hence the arrogance and bashing. Hence why I said someone is changing "it's the instructor not the agency" to "its the agency not the instructor"

[Spectre]

chrpai once bubbled...
Now I might accept Roakey's point, if that is what he actually said. But it wasn't. He clearly stated that there wasn't any chance you'd get someone bad from GUE.


Well, in all honesty, I believe that from everything I've heard, but of course I've never taken a class from them, and in fact I've only met a couple of GUE instructors and I've not talked to them about instructing... so I really can't make that claim.

Roakey is definately more experienced than I with the GUE instructors. But I have to admit that I've heard about bad instructors from every agency except GUE [well, there might be a few of the smaller agencies that I don't have second hand knowledge of any of the instructors]...

But basically, the argument against roakey here seems to [now] boil down to be that there are possibly bad GUE instructors... but I don't see anyone here that can claim this with first, or even second hand knowledge.

[chrpai]

Spectre once bubbled...

But basically, the argument against roakey here seems to [now] boil down to be that there are possibly bad GUE instructors... but I don't see anyone here that can claim this with first, or even second hand knowledge.

He made the claim, it should be up to him to prove it, not up to us to disprove it.

I still stand by my statement of:

"Have you personally evaluated every single instructor that GUE has? If not, how can you make the guarantee?"

[chrpai]

roakey once bubbled...

You can't rely on the instructor, because even the bad ones (maybe *especially* the bad ones) think they walk on water.


I know this is late, but I just noticed this comment. I'm not going to say much, but everyone play with this one in their mind for a little bit and see where you take yourself with it.

We could all learn from it, I believe.

[cornfed]

Spectre once bubbled...

Roakey's point is just being missed by everyone. He's not blanket bashing. He's pointing out that if you blindly choose an instructor from any agency, there is a chance you'll get someone that isn't any good.

I'm well aware of what is point is. I'm not debating the instructor quality issue. I simply stated that it's ironic for him to complain about the replies when he opened the can of worms to begin with.

[cornfed]

chrpai once bubbled...
He made the claim, it should be up to him to prove it, not up to us to disprove it.


Proofs like this are a two way street.

Someone makes a claim based on evidence they have. Based on this evidence, you can either accept it or not. If you refute the claim it becomes your burden to disprove it.

[roakey]

cornfed once bubbled...
Someone makes a claim based on evidence they have. Based on this evidence, you can either accept it or not. If you refute the claim it becomes your burden to disprove it.
Actually it's even simplier than this, you can't prove a negative, that's logic 101.

I can't prove that there isn't a bad instructor, it can only be proved that there IS a bad GUE instructor. That's up to the person making the assertion, charpi?

Given the small number of GUE instructors, I think we've got on the order of 90% coverage of them in this file from various people. Except for one personality conflict that I know of, reports have been 100% positive.

If you won't listen to me, at least listen to Spectre, his observation perhaps will encourage you to go back and read what I wrote and see that I pick my words very carefully, but despite my best attempts, a number of you (dare I say most?) have completely missed the point.

Roak

[wb416]

dsgobie once bubbled...
I've been searching the board for any information on this course. I can't find anything. The DIR/fund class is beat to death, but I would like to hear from anyone who has taken this course.

What were your experiences?

Would you recommend it?

If you could do it over, would you use another agency?

Did you get what you expected out of the course?


ds

DS,
Since the signal-to-noise ratio has made this thread worthless and furthermore, since those "adding" the most to your thread don't seem to have taken the class, PM me. I'll try to answer any question you may have based on having actually taken and passed the Tech 1 class, and it won't get lost in the din.

bob

[roakey]

You made me go off and gather a couple datapoints...

I have classroom experience with over 15% of the GUE instructors worldwide, which translates to over 26% of the instructors located in the United States.

If you include meeting and talking to GUE instructors, those numbers jump to about 22% and 37%.

If you're calling on me to defend GUE, anyone care to figure out what % of instructors you know from the other agencies? Is it staistically significant enough that you can draw a reasonable conclusion as to the agency's overall level of quality?

Roak

[Uncle Pug]

dsgobie once bubbled...
1. What were your experiences?

2. Would you recommend it?

3. If you could do it over, would you use another agency?

4. Did you get what you expected out of the course?
1. Too much for me to include in this post... it was not a piece of cake... but we came out the other side confident in our ability to not only do the dives but work through the one that might end up going sideways.

2. Yes... but only for those with the skill sets of DIRf down pat.

3. No.

4. Far more than I could have forseen.

[d33ps1x]

I wonder how many people other than myself see all this crap going on between the GUE and EVERYONEELSE crowds and says F($( it.

All this BS can and does really turn people off.

It doesn't just happen on msg boards either. These people act like this in real life too. In dive shops, on boats, and shorelines everywhere.

The bizarre thing is that most of the GUE, PADI, NAUI, SSI, etc, professionals I've seen out there seem reasonably well socially adapted.

It seems to be more a large population of end users that have this incapability to get along and a seemingly un-ending ability to volly back and forth the same stupid arguements over and over.

All I can figure is diving attracts more than its fair share of nitpicky, smartassed, argumentative a(*hol#s. There must be something about the sport/pasttime/lifestyle/whatever that strikes their fancy.

I actually would be interested in taking a DIR-F course if I could stomach being in a store that offers it long enough to fill out the paperwork. Unfortunately usually some holier than though I.T. nerd idiot with a pair of Jetfins sneers at me walking through the front door and gives me that "I've done my tech1 and from the look of you you haven't found [insert deity here] CHOICES: God/Jarrod/ or George) yet..." look followed by some dumb assed comment about my obviously uneducated gear configuration.

At this point I usually have the option of either pistol whipping the arrogant little GUE disciple with his own spring straps or leaving the shop. I almost always choose the latter.

With that said I think for now I will stick to reading the GUE manuals that are available and learning what I can from them. Lots of really great points that have already made a difference in my diving I believe.

I own and have read DIR-F, am reading TECH1 and soon will read CAVE1 manuals. I really wish I could stomach your "culture" long enough to step near a course but I really can't stand the unusual number of whiney, pissy, sneering, insecure little buggers I've met along the way.

I have met mamny "DIR" pracitioners there who are unassuming, level headed people who's company I quite enjoy, so I know they exist. Sadly surprisingly not enough to offset the balance.

Who knows. Maybe I'll save up enough to take the course one on one if it's offered to avoid the kool-aid crowd. Until then forget it.

To clarify. I'm simply flat out disillusioned with the culture surrounding what seems a very solid diving concept. One that I have a great deal of interest in and enthusiasm for but has been made downright inaccessible to me due to my low level of tolerance for assoholics.

If some people are wondering why the DIR revolution has yet to come maybe a hint might be in the attitudes of some of the people representing it.

[d33ps1x]

roakey once bubbled...
You made me go off and gather a couple datapoints...

I have classroom experience with over 15% of the GUE instructors worldwide, which translates to over 26% of the instructors located in the United States.

If you include meeting and talking to GUE instructors, those numbers jump to about 22% and 37%.

Roak

Blah blah blah blah blah...It's like a squeaking screen door or something isn't it? I rest my case.
:wacko:

[MikeFerrara]

More comments from some one who's never taken a GUE class.

One of the things I try to teach my students is that they should take an active role in picking an instructor if they want a good one. I do see lots of bad ones and I see poorly trained divers. I have had bad instructors also. How bad? I took a technical course once where the instructor never got in the water. The one time I did see him in the water he worried us because he was under weighted and I thought he was going to hurt himself. LOL

At least at their current size, I don't think you'll see this with any GUE instructor. I've dived with a couple, watched another teach and met or had dealings with a few others.

As far as the attitude, some people do seem a bit smug at times. Many of you have seen me hammer some of them on the boards, in fact. However, none of the GUE instructors I've met displayed an attitude. My advice would be that if you're interested in a GUE class, talk to an instructor. Discuss your diving goals, needs and how the class in question might help you. Then decide.

[Northeastwrecks]

chrpai once bubbled...



My OW instructor was great. I didn't realize that at the time, but when I found out how crappy my AOW instructor was I did.


But what about your technical instructors. You are something more than an AOW, right? Otherwise, what's the basis for your comments about a technical class?

[Uncle Pug]

d33ps1x once bubbled...
I really can't stand the unusual number of whiney, pissy, sneering, insecure little buggers I've met along the way.Perhaps this is a pre-sort... culling out the whiners before they can get in the door.

[boomx5]

Are you the same guy as in this thread?http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12634

If so, did you make a full recovery? This is a genuine question and not a troll by the way.

As far as GUE and DIR goes, I would encourage you to seek out a GUE instructor and email or call them. I'm sure you would find them very helpful and I think you'd get your questions answered. I personally know 5 GUE instructors and everyone is an excellent diver and has been extremely helpful and patient and never belittled me or given me an attitude, at anytime. Give it a try, I think you'd be happy you did. :)

Best Regards,

[d33ps1x]

Boomx5 - No that isn't me and it doesn't look like they're coming back anytime soon. I want my name back. ;-) I have a small group of people interested in a DIR-F class. Enough of us that we shouldn't have to deal with the smug little graduate disciples that skulk around dive shops and message boards everywhere. So I may very well go ahead in the spring and take the course. Thanks for the advice and concern.

Mike - Like I already said in my post. I've met lots of perfectly fine DIR divers but I still believe there to be an extremely disproportionate number of ferverish, insulting, sneering, loudmouthed asses associating themselves with it. Like I said above I have sourced a few GUE instructors that have a good recommendation from some unassuming skilled tech divers I have met. I will talk with them when the time comes and see how it goes. Thanks for the advice

Uncle Pug - Been listening to the s*@ on this board and watching threads get hijacked by people like you for 6 months before commenting at the end of yet another four page war that started with yet another simple question. This is the first and the last you'll hear about it from me. Going off once in 6 months on a topic that I see you whining over daily hardly requires me to lump myself in with you. How did you and roaky get through the door anyways? So run along and see if you can still pass the minimum fitness requirements in your fundamental(ists) manual son. Thanks for demonstrating the old saying about opening your mouth and proving it.

[Spectre]

d33ps1x once bubbled...
How did you and roaky get through the door anyways? So run along and see if you can still pass the minimum fitness requirements in your fundamental(ists) manual son. Thanks for demonstrating the old saying about opening your mouth and proving it.

<cough cough> Did you just call Pug... Son???

[Big-t-2538]

d33ps1x once bubbled...
So run along and see if you can still pass the minimum fitness requirements in your fundamental(ists) manual son. Thanks for demonstrating the old saying about opening your mouth and proving it. ** picking self up off of floor**

While Pug may not be a marine...you might want to look into WTF you are saying before you hit the "Submit Reply" button....

[detroit diver]

d33ps1x,

That may have been one of the most obnoxious, insulting, and ill-informed posts ever written on this board-and that is hard to imagine.

I don't know who the F**k you think you are, but you better get your info straight before opening up YOUR mouth.

You're way out of line and owe UP an apology.


PS Did you come from rec.scuba?????;-0

[Uncle Pug]

detroit diver once bubbled...
owe UP an apology.
If he can pull a group of like-minded buddies together and get a GUE instructor to put on a DIRf class just for them it will be interesting to hear the results.

[wb416]

d33ps1x once bubbled...


[snip]
Uncle Pug - Been listening to the s*@ on this board and watching threads get hijacked by people like you for 6 months before commenting at the end of yet another four page war that started with yet another simple question. This is the first and the last you'll hear about it from me. Going off once in 6 months on a topic that I see you whining over daily hardly requires me to lump myself in with you. How did you and roaky get through the door anyways? So run along and see if you can still pass the minimum fitness requirements in your fundamental(ists) manual son. Thanks for demonstrating the old saying about opening your mouth and proving it.

While it might be true that Roger has never been one of the more diplomatic ambassadors for GUE/DIR (based on reading his stuff for the last 4 or so years), Uncle Pug HAS been.

Maybe it's your nature to be inflammatory, or perhaps you mistook something that UP said, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Jokingly, you sound like a former Drill Sgt of mine who would say, "...kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out...".

However, I would ask "Please support the use of precision guided weapons and leave the nukes in the closet." :boom: Make it a policy to avoid collateral damage. :)

regards,
bob

[Tibbs]

pwfletcher once bubbled...



Hmmm ... I do not know anything about TDI. However, after that crazy statement I had to find out if what you said is true. Apparently, it is not. Click the following link to find out what it takes to be an Entry Level Trimix Instructor for TDI:

http://www.divetekadventures.com/Classes/InstructionInstructorTrimixEL.htm

It takes significantly more than you indicated!

It's not juist that GUE instructor but all of them who have to do it that way.

I know personally of one TDI instructor who got his cert that way and anecdotally of at least 4 more who have got theirs the same way. The fact that the instructor I know is by far the best non-GUE instructor I have met so far in my short 7 year diving career is incidental... ;)

It is not so much the level of the standards that sets GUE apart, it's their adherance to them.

Chris

[cornfed]

detroit diver once bubbled...

PS Did you come from rec.scuba?????;-0

Never seen him. Painter?

[d33ps1x]

wb416 - Fair enough. I don't think I aimed anything at the entire DIR population. I aimed it at the overzealous fundamentalists who can't help but open their yaps and put people off. People like Roaky or whatever his name is throwing s*&# bombs into a thread to see what happens. Sorry if I got any on you along the way.

Detroit Diver - I believe it has a lot to do with UP's post topic that went along with his text which when combined insinuated I was one of the whiney pissy ppl I was referring to. If you gonna sling s*&# expect to smell bad.

As far as calling him son that was in fact purely inflammatory and self satisfying on my part. Don't expect me to call him sir or Mr. Uncle Pug anytime soon though.


The mirror on the door.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
d33ps1x once bubbled...
I really can't stand the unusual number of whiney, pissy, sneering, insecure little buggers I've met along the way.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps this is a pre-sort... culling out the whiners before they can get in the door.


__________________
Uncle Pug,
gotta stay wet to stay purdy

[chrpai]

cornfed once bubbled...


Never seen him. Painter?

Funny how Detroit Diver criticizes rec.scuba now. He had NO problem trolling over their when he was spamming for students for his DIR class.

http://tinyurl.com/vxh5

[Fathom]

Don't get in the way of the "ass"imilation. The borg may advertise anywhere they wish. :mean:



chrpai once bubbled...


Funny how Detroit Diver criticizes rec.scuba now. He had NO problem trolling over their when he was spamming for students for his DIR class.

http://tinyurl.com/vxh5

[detroit diver]

chrpai once bubbled...


Funny how Detroit Diver criticizes rec.scuba now. He had NO problem trolling over their when he was spamming for students for his DIR class.

http://tinyurl.com/vxh5

Hey Painter,

I don't have a DIR class. I'm not an instructor.

Also, I'll let normal people (and that doesn't include you) decide what rec.scuba is about. Most will conclude that it is a free-for-all stag party with language suited for the same. On the odd occasion that diving is talked about, it's usually in some derogatory fashion.

The only one screaming spam over there is Mossman, and the rest of you parrot him. You're not even clever.

[d33ps1x]

Happy b-day btw Detroit Diver

[detroit diver]

Thank you.

[Big-t-2538]

I got like a whole 7 minutes here Happy B-Day DD....I had no idea....

I hoisted a few in celebration this evening!!

[Doc Intrepid]

D33ps1x,

It isn't what you say so much as how you say it.

You may have valid points.

Your attack on Pug was, nevertheless, unwarranted.

Go back and do a search on Pug's comments over the past two years or so. He's been on the board quite a bit longer than you have, and his input has seldom ever been demeaning or insulting. Don't believe me, check it out for yourself.

It may have felt clever to type and post your previous comments regarding Pug, but I also feel your insults were out of line.

Doc

[chrpai]

detroit diver once bubbled...


Hey Painter,

I don't have a DIR class. I'm not an instructor.

Also, I'll let normal people (and that doesn't include you) decide what rec.scuba is about. Most will conclude that it is a free-for-all stag party with language suited for the same. On the odd occasion that diving is talked about, it's usually in some derogatory fashion.

The only one screaming spam over there is Mossman, and the rest of you parrot him. You're not even clever.

More of the same. Ignore the fact that what I said was true. Ignore how much it shows how unethical you are. Instead you just throw insult after insult about the very people that you had no problem trying to take money from.

You are such a joke. Atleast Cornfed lives in Beltsville. Why anyone would live in Detroit is beyond me. My father was from detroit and unlike the rest of his family, he had the sense to get out of the cesspool decades ago.

[detroit diver]

chrpai once bubbled...


More of the same. Ignore the fact that what I said was true. Ignore how much it shows how unethical you are. Instead you just throw insult after insult about the very people that you had no problem trying to take money from.

You are such a joke. Atleast Cornfed lives in Beltsville. Why anyone would live in Detroit is beyond me. My father was from detroit and unlike the rest of his family, he had the sense to get out of the cesspool decades ago.

You should be a stand-up comedian.

Then you could see first hand the folks that are laughing at you.

You have no idea.

[Northeastwrecks]

chrpai once bubbled...
More of the same. Ignore the fact that what I said was true. Ignore how much it shows how unethical you are. Instead you just throw insult after insult about the very people that you had no problem trying to take money from.

You are such a joke. Atleast Cornfed lives in Beltsville. Why anyone would live in Detroit is beyond me. My father was from detroit and unlike the rest of his family, he had the sense to get out of the cesspool decades ago.

Unethical? What color is the sky on your planet?

Posting a class notice on the sewer of the diving world may be pointless. It may be non-productive. After all, it is fairly hard to talk about diving over there.

But it is hardly unethical to try.

Regardless, you deserve some credit. This may be the first time that ethics and rec.scuba have appeared in the same sentence.

So, are you ever going to tell us whether you have any reason to be in this forum. Or may we assume that you are a OW diver with admittedly poor AOW training and a loud mouth?

DSGobie:

$800.00 for both courses is a fantastic deal even if you need to pay for your own Helium. $1.00 per cu. ft is slightly more than the trimix shop around here charges; however, its not too far out of line.

That's why I supply my own Helium. My cost is between $0.26 and $0.40 per cu. ft., depending on how much I can get out of my low bottle (no booster).

The only question I would have is whether it is possible to do the courses back to back. As I recall, GUE has a requirement that you log 25 training dives between classes. Training dives are defined as dives performed for the purpose of practicing skills. Thus, doing an S-drill at the start of a dive and a valve drill at the end probably shouldn't count.

[Northeastwrecks]

Fathom once bubbled...
Don't get in the way of the "ass"imilation. The borg may advertise anywhere they wish. :mean:




Nice first post. Welcome to the Board, troll.

[paulwlee]

Northeastwrecks once bubbled...

The only question I would have is whether it is possible to do the courses back to back. As I recall, GUE has a requirement that you log 25 training dives between classes. Training dives are defined as dives performed for the purpose of practicing skills. Thus, doing an S-drill at the start of a dive and a valve drill at the end probably shouldn't count.

The listed prerequisites on the GUE standards only state that you need to be DIRF qualified, and have 100 dives beyond OW qualification. Looks like the 25 dive rule applies when you do Tech2,3 and Cave 2,3.

I think this makes sense, as Fundamentals is just getting the fundamentals straight. It's not really about teaching new material.
I've read at least a couple class reports where DIRF was done in the days immediately preceding Tech1.

[Uncle Pug]

paulwlee once bubbled...
I've read at least a couple class reports where DIRF was done in the days immediately preceding Tech1.
My advice is for you to put in plenty of skills practice between DIRf and Tech 1 unless you already have the the skills down pat.

[Big-t-2538]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

My advice is for you to put in plenty of skills practice between DIRf and Tech 1 unless you already have the the skills down pat. Damn...you mean there's merit in practicing this crap?? I thought it was all just for show and tell...:D

[Northeastwrecks]

Big-t-2538 once bubbled...
Damn...you mean there's merit in practicing this crap?? I thought it was all just for show and tell...:D

Big-T, you should know better. We only take these courses so we can chat on the internet. Diving is irrelevant.

:wacko:

[wb416]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

My advice is for you to put in plenty of skills practice between DIRf and Tech 1 unless you already have the the skills down pat.

Furthermore, if you have buddies that have video or even underwater stills, then use them to interrogate your diving.

Dedicated practice between classes is the difference between doing skills without thinking and holding your team back in class.... and yes, it's all about team, so have your awareness down pat or it will haunt you big time.

[DS1]

Im gonna ad my late .02.... I took my Deco course with TDI and i have no complaint cause i got an excellent instructor

But i can find lots of complaints of people making against there TDI..PADI..IANTD course or instructor and what ever else but i have yet to hear someone complaits about there Tech 1 course or DIR-F they all come out happy and feeled they learned more then expected


Wich make me curious of trying the Tech 1

[roakey]

d33ps1x once bubbled...
Blah blah blah blah blah...It's like a squeaking screen door or something isn't it? I rest my case.
:wacko:
I was asked how extensive my familliarity with GUE instructors was because of claim that they're all good.

This challenge, of course, was thrown out by someone defending other agencies when they only know a small fraction of a percent of the instructors of the agencies.

This is called "Hypocritical."

Sorry if you missed the point. Again.

Roak

[cornfed]

roakey once bubbled...

Sorry if you missed the point. Again.


Roak, some people just don't care enough to bother trying to understand.