PST E8's in Canada

[ScubaScott]

Does anyone have pricing on these tanks yet in Canada? My LDS said they would have prices right after DEMA, but I have not heard anything yet......

Anyone been diving these yet? Thoughts, opinions?

SS

[artw]

$450 at dive teck

for a 130 including the k-valve.

[Kevin R]

Anyone else wondering why PST is sending 3500 psi tanks with Yoke k valves?

Kevin

[artw]

The ones at Dans come with DIN k-valves.

[scuba-punk]

the tanks come with a DIN/K valve. Some reg's have a yoke that's rated for 3300 psi. At my LDS, unless a diver can show us the DIN regulator, we only fill the tanks to 3000 psi. Most of the time though, when someone still has the K adapter in the valve and they say "DIN what?" with a funny look on their face, they get 3000 psi. In the event that they put a 300 bar valve in it, they get the full 3440-something. Me, I haven't filled one yet over 3000 psi.

-Frank =-)

[DeepScuba]

Uhmm that was a nudge-nudge, wink-wink wasn't it Scubapunk???

I SWEAR I saw 3500PSI in Brockville!!!!

hehehheh

I start sweating when our guys get to 3700PSI!!

Not in my damn tanks!

[diverdeb001]

Hi Artw: Is that a low pressure steel 130???? for $450 with a K valve? If so, how much bigger/ taller than an aluminum 80 would it be? db

[JimC]

E8-130 has 130cf @ 3440 psi and 104cf @ 2640.

It is 8 inches in diamiter, where an AL80 is 7.25 inches.
It is 25.5 inches long vs Al80 of 25.75 inches.
It weighs 42 lbs empty vs 32 lbs.
Its 6 lbs's more negative empty.

Fatter, weights more and has enouhg gas to get you into serious trouble. :)


Unfortunatly the tanks still haven't crossed the border, some sort of manufacturing defect or something in the last batch.

[LUBOLD8431]

scubapunk-17055 once bubbled...
the tanks come with a DIN/K valve. Some reg's have a yoke that's rated for 3300 psi. At my LDS, unless a diver can show us the DIN regulator, we only fill the tanks to 3000 psi. Most of the time though, when someone still has the K adapter in the valve and they say "DIN what?" with a funny look on their face, they get 3000 psi. In the event that they put a 300 bar valve in it, they get the full 3440-something. Me, I haven't filled one yet over 3000 psi.

-Frank =-)

Actually most yoke regs can handle 3500 psi. And you should fill tanks to the service pressure. The E-series gets filled to 3442. That is just under the pressure to require DIN. According to DOT, you dont need a DIN until 3500 psi. So, why do you have a problem filling them to 3442??? ALL the E-series tanks come with a DIN/K valve. You can use yoke or remove the insert, and use the 230 bar DIN. By not filling these tanks to service pressure you are doing a disservice to your customers. If you have any questions about this, please PM me...

[LUBOLD8431]

JimC once bubbled...
E8-130 has 130cf @ 3440 psi and 104cf @ 2640.

It is 8 inches in diamiter, where an AL80 is 7.25 inches.
It is 25.5 inches long vs Al80 of 25.75 inches.
It weighs 42 lbs empty vs 32 lbs.
Its 6 lbs's more negative empty.

Fatter, weights more and has enouhg gas to get you into serious trouble. :)

FOr some people, who are doing technical diving, its enough gas to get you back alive. An 80 is not. I prefer steel tanks to aluminum. It all depends what type of diving you are doing...

[DPVDiver]

I think the reason peole dont want to fill them is that most yoke regs come in two ratings 200 and 232 Bar. 200 Bar = 2900PSI, and 232=3364 psi or around those numbers. Therefore these regs cannot handle the pressure of the tank at 3442 so it should be 300 BAR din not yoke at that point. Even the din valves they come with are only rated at 232bar or 3364 psi so I would not be filling past that.

I think it would be a disservice and a liability to fill a customer's tank to 3500 if they only have a 200bar yoke valve, especially if it ever let go through his or her, well you know.

[LUBOLD8431]

Actually, if you look at the service pressure of most yokes, it is 3500 psi. Not 200 bar or even 232 bar. Things have changed alot in the last ten years, with yokes holding more and more pressure. I cant remember the last time I saw a yoke that had a rating of only 200 bar. You are mistaken sir...

[DPVDiver]

Check any new Mares reg, 232 BAR. 3 years ago the R2 and MR12 was 200 BAR, Poseidon DIN Yoke Adapter, 232 BAR. Genisis Reg in my basement 200 Bar.

Scubapro MK18, purchased last year manual reads "INT: This international connector consists of a yoke and knob fixing screw for use in systems up to 232 BAR".

Or how about this, it is not just the integrity of the Yoke but the seal itself. This is from the Australia gas cylinder commitee,

"mechanical seal of a yoke fitting, ie a ring on a flat surface, does not have the integrity to seal pressures in excess of 225 BAR"

Check this article out:

www.whs.qld.gov.au/alerts/97i14.pdf

The last time I saw a 200 Bar yoke was the Dacor D12 Viper, in a store last week.

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm Mistaken.

DPV

[pufferfish]

If any of you folks have Vance Harlow's book called "Scuba Regulator Maintenance and Repair" he goes over this topic in detail on page 115-116. I hope he doesn't mind if I quote him here.

He states, "Sometimes the yoke will be marked with a pressure rating. These are not terribly meaningful--Scubapro tends to mark all their recent ones with 200 bar, even though SP sells SP branded 220 bar yoke valve tanks. Does this mean you can't use you new SP yoke MK20 on your SP tank? And in Europe the yoke connection seems to be generally considered as good for 232 bar(3500 psi), the same as the LP Din connector.

And Oceanic marks their yokes 266 bar, even though there is no such thing as a 4000 psi yoke valve tank, and no one in their right mind would use a yoke valve for that kind of pressure, not because the yoke would break, but because the face o-ring valve/yoke interface simply cannot reliably handle such pressures.

Most techs don't pay much attention to the rating marked on the yokes, but simply divide them into two general groups--old skinny yokes, and new beefy ones.

The rule of thumb seems to be that one can usually get away with using an old skinny yoke on a 3000 psi tank but not anything higher, and a modern heavy one up to 3300 (220 bar) with reasonable reliability and maybe to 3500 psi (232 bar) with somewhat less. Old skinny style yokes should be regularly inspected for signs of incipient failure."

Great book and there is more on the topic, but seems pretty self explantory. Hope that helps.

[DPVDiver]

Puffer, your right. They will handle it. But I am thinking more from a shop liability perspective. I think if you tell someone their reg is good for it and it is marked 200bar and if there is a problem and they get hurt you would be up s**t creek.

[pufferfish]

DPVDiver once bubbled...
Puffer, your right. They will handle it. But I am thinking more from a shop liability perspective. I think if you tell someone their reg is good for it and it is marked 200bar and if there is a problem and they get hurt you would be up s**t creek.

Just use Oceanic regs as their yokes are stamped 266 bar :D

Yes I guess there might be some liability issues involved but I will leave that to you to sort out in this case. My tanks only ever see 3000 psi.

[avalanchediver]

I use the 120 cuft 3442 psi tanks almost exclusively. I think of them as havine enough air to get me out of trouble in case trouble finds me. As long as you stick to your plan having extra air can only be a plus for me. I still carry a pony in case of major failure but never need it. Since I am tall the extra height of the tanks has not been a problem.

Eric P

[Diver Joe]

Anyone with any news...does anyone in Canada have them yet? I ordered mine in May...

[Eric__U]

im eager for them to become avaliable to :) I don't think many places have them yet.

[Diver Joe]

Well...surely they will be here by XMAS :o)

Let me know if you hear anything.

Cheers

[ScubaScott]

I'm starting to think these tanks exist like the Yeti and "Nessie".....

SS

[amobeus]

One of the main reasons dive shops don't like to fill your high pressure tank, is because its a lot of wear and tear on there compressors components. A compressor may be factory rated to pump up to 4500 PSi but its a heavy load on the system and they are usually factory pre set to a safe lower blow off point, and because of this there are all kinds of high pressure steel tanks out there that never get filled to 4500 psi. If you want to start filling up and beyond 3500 PSi a good four stage compressor would be more suitable, as most dive shops use three stage systems because of the lower purchase price. I don't think these new tanks are going to go any were on the market, NO ONE HAS ANY MONEY and the market is slow. Another novelty by the scuba industry I say. I wouldn't worry about the valve blowing up in your face as they to are designed to handle the pressure. As for regulators keep your self in the high end models like Poseidon etc and you won't blow your head off.

Amobeus

[Diver Joe]

thanks for your comments...

I'll let ya know how much I like them (or not) when they finally do arrive.

Have a great weekend and Happy and Safe Diving to ya.

[bertschb]

The wait will be worth it. I live in the US and I bought two E8-130's for $250USD each. They are great tanks and well worth it. Eliminates air as one of the things to fret over. Basically the same height as an AL80 but 3/4" wider. Very, very nice tanks.

I definitely don't consider them a novelty and some of us have the spare $250. If you can't afford the tank you probably can't afford to dive. Gas money driving to the sight, meals, etc. aint cheap either. Now, $2,500 for a new DUI suit? That's expensive (but worth it as well).

Be patient.....

[amobeus]

Well $250 US for one scuba tank thats almost $700 Canadian for 2 tanks and that doesn't include tax. Its not a matter of being able to afford it, I'm sure there are lots of people out there who have the money to waste but in this slow scuba industries economy, its an expensive item to sell and you probably won't see to many sitting on scuba shop floors. I think my double 98's are more than enough air for any tech dive up here in Ontario. Wider tanks mean newer wider band = even more money and the list grows. I think lighter tanks are a definet +, but what do I know, I've only been a tech diver for 26 years.

Amobeus

[avalanchediver]

Dive Inn Watersports has the tanks. They are located in Port Huron. Ask for Eric or Steve. I am sure they can answer any questions you may have. You can find their Email at www.diveinnwatersports.com.

Eric P
(not the Eric at the dive shop)

[mikey b]

The E8-130's have been delayed again.

Originally we didn't get them up here because they didn't have permits to put the TC stamp on them. They got those permits a little over a month ago. Now pressed steel is saying that they are having problems with the galvinization process. They can't get their dip tanks as hot as they could in the summer so the tanks are coming out with some sort of slag on them and are not passing quality control. They have given a projected shipping date of Nov. 24 for canada. When they do come in Dan's Dive Shop has 23 sets on order so you will see them in shops. If you want to go look at them at Dive Inn Watersports go right ahead but they will look the same as the 104's we have had up here for years. They are just slightly different and are rated as HP instead of LP. They have also shiffed some weight from the bottom to give them a better balance when in the water. Just remember to only buy tanks that have the TC stamp because nobody will fill or viz a tank up here without it.

Mike

[Diver Joe]

The latest and greatest is that the tanks will be in...this week!!

Yup was aware of the TC and QC issues... They are on the Road right now!!! Yahoo!!!

[Eric__U]

Great news !! Sounds like il be diving during christmas:)

[ScubaScott]

amobeus once bubbled...
Well $250 US for one scuba tank thats almost $700 Canadian for 2 tanks and that doesn't include tax. Its not a matter of being able to afford it, I'm sure there are lots of people out there who have the money to waste but in this slow scuba industries economy, its an expensive item to sell and you probably won't see to many sitting on scuba shop floors. I think my double 98's are more than enough air for any tech dive up here in Ontario. Wider tanks mean newer wider band = even more money and the list grows. I think lighter tanks are a definet +, but what do I know, I've only been a tech diver for 26 years.

Amobeus

Amobeus - while your points are valid, whats your gripe? The price? Yes, $700 for twins is a lot of coin, but do you have a suggestion on where to get quality tanks like the E8 for cheaper?

The E8 130s aren't any wider your lp98's (assuming they weren't bought 26 years ago), - 8" dia. Berts comment were that the tanks are about 3/4" bigger than an aluminum 80 - not steel. E8-130s are less than an inch taller than 98s. E8130 is probably 1.5 lbs lighter than a 98. But the fills/fill pressures are where the real advantage is....

As for stock sitting on the showroom floor..... every shop I've been in has far more money sitting in completely useless crap and trinkets pushed by major manufactures than 1-2K sitting in steel tanks that WILL sell....

SS

[Warren_L]

$700 Cdn for two PST E8-130s? I would think that they'd be close to $450-$500 each. That $700 deal for two might not sound too bad.

[bertschb]

I just picked up another E8-130 (in Oregon) for $250. I ordered it about two weeks ago. I'm sorry to hear about the delays up north. We don't appear to have any trouble getting them south of the border.

[mikey b]

E8-130's are in at Dan's Dive Shop. Had a couple dozen come in today and they are selling fast. 4 sets sold today.

Mike

[d33ps1x]

Hmm...Maybe Dan will sell em for 700 Canuck a pair. I doubt it since the price today was close to $500 a piece. :(

[Warren_L]

Yep, my thoughts exactly.

[d33ps1x]

Anyone know the scoop on the supposed impending bankruptcy of PST and the impact that is supposed to have on the tanks.

I heard that they will not be allowed to be hydro'd again if PST goes out of biz. Which would give these tanks a shelf life of 5 years.

Any truth in all this? If so I better get a few more dives out of my HP-100's

[Warren_L]

There was a thread that talked about that. Apparently a rep from PST came on and cleared everything up. Probably nothing more than just rumours. Wouldn't make sense that dealers in Canada would continue to stock more PST tanks and sell them just to have lots of unhappy campers later on.

[d33ps1x]

That's where I read it..On here...I'll have to find that thread and get the update. Thanks W

[Warren_L]

Yeah, I think it was in the tanks section. Pretty recent too.

[d33ps1x]

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41081

[ScubaScott]

d33ps1x once bubbled...
Hmm...Maybe Dan will sell em for 700 Canuck a pair. I doubt it since the price today was close to $500 a piece. :(

Really? 500 bucks huh?.... Guess I better adjust my budget a bit then....

So its true? They really are in Ontario now?

SS

[d33ps1x]

Yah $495 a tank or $1400 for two banded with manifold.

[d33ps1x]

I need a sugarmomma...

[Warren_L]

That would be pretty freakin' heavy.... probably 90+ lbs.

[d33ps1x]

Your sugarmomma must be a midget Warren! Oh!

The doubles...Umm...Yah. ;-)

[Warren_L]

I'm sure once those tanks are filled, with valves and manifold, should easily be over 100 lbs.

I think I might stick with the E7-120s. They'll still be heavy, but not quite as bad.

[d33ps1x]

Handier chart than others I've seen just posted by savagemyth in another thread.

PST Tank Specs (http://www.cavediver.net/archives/Gear/tanks/PST-TANKS-ESERIES.htm)

[d33ps1x]

So yah I guess around 110 lbs including band and manifold.

Not too shabby...

[Warren_L]

I dunno, that sounds pretty heavy. Not that the E7-120s will be that much lighter, but still, 12 pounds is 12 pounds.

[Diver Joe]

Picked my tanks up this morning and did got 80min Bubble time in at Rockport on the (30min) Kingshorn... Good dive, vis poor, low current, temp 46F. Barely used a third of my supply... Sweet.

[Eric__U]

cool, sounds like their comin into canada slowly. Can't wait till i pick up a set.

[vlada]

d33ps1x,

I think that the specs that you gave in that link are not quite correct - the E-130 and old LP104 are not the same tanks

The physical properties in the chart (size and weight) would appear to be those of new E-130 - the 104's a an inch longer and 4 lb heavier per tank

The buyoancy stats on the chart however, are that of old 104s - from what i hear, the new E-130s are 3lb per tank less negative when empty than old 104s - given larger gas volume that they can fit at higher pressures they woudl appear to swong form -11 to -1 - not sure if that's with or w/o valves

specs (http://www.lloydbaileysscuba.com/PST%20E%20Series%20Tanks.htm)
Would be neat if any of the store owners that sell those things chime in and confirmed the stats

Vlada

[d33ps1x]

vlada once bubbled...
[B]d33ps1x,

I think that the specs that you gave in that link are not quite correct - the E-130 and old LP104 are not the same tanks


I didn't look too closely at it My understanding is the newly rated lp 104 is now the 130 with 3 or so pounds shaved off the weight around the bottom to trim it better.

Mind you this is just from chatter out there so I definately wouldn't bet my life on it.

[seahunter]

Why do you assume the store owners have access to more information or stats than the public does?

In many cases with a new product, and the E tanks is one example, the company publishes information for consumers before they send anything to the owners. The owners get prices and shipping dates. Everything else they must get from the same website or the company catalog just as you do.

I appreciate the compliment but the owners do not have a secret code that lets them check on every detail. Generally the store owners cannot easily get to the manufacturer anyway and must deal with the local distributor who often knows less than they do anyway and particularly when it's technical info. The distributor only wants to know how many you want to order.
There are exceptions but now you know the way it works!

The stats link you've provided Vlada provides more info than any sales literature I've ever received from a tank company (there only is 1!) and, if I may, more information than the average diver needs or could use anyway.

[d33ps1x]

Pressed Steel's website is superduper up to date and rocks.
:confused:

Seahunter. They are just conspiring against you. No worries...

[seahunter]

I hardly think it's a conspiracy after all these years. In fact, it's often part of the the manufacturers marketing strategy. It's called 'run it up the flagpole and see who salutes'. They will introduce a really spectacular piece of scuba gear that they are 'thinking' of making and judge the consumer reaction before committing to it.
It's not necessarily a bad practice but the poor retailer suffers. A diver who sees the 'premature' promotion will call the retailer asking for the price and checking to see if it's in stock. When told it is not available, the natural reaction is to be sceptical. Only if the diver takes the time to contact the manufacturer and discover the truth is his confidence in the LDS restored.
There are dozens of examples every year. One that comes to mind is the tiny, 2 bottle scuba system that simply pops into your mouth (James Bond style) and allows you to dive. It was actually introduced at DEMA about 10 years ago and we still regularly get calls about it. It has never been produced commercially.
The most recent one is the HUD (head's up display) mask from Oceanic. The USN version is a true HUD mask but a month ago a consumer version with a built-in dive computer was featured in Popular Science. They even had a price. We've had about a dozen phone calls, 25+ emails and it was even a topic on The Diving Board http://www.scuba2000.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000699 .
In fact, Oceanic hopes to have it available in late 2004 and the price will be about $2000. We'll see!?

Now the E-8 tanks do exist. The delay according to Diversco (Canadian distributor) is at the federal approval level. With the current efforts to police scuba divers, it might not be wise to get one that is not approved by the feds in Ottawa.

[seahunter]

I've just received an E-8 update from an industry expert who prefers (wisely?) not to go public on the Scubaboard.

The Federal approval process is complete and successful.
Apparently the current delay is due to PST's internal quality control which discovered some less-than-perfect galvanizing on the tanks.

Hey! I'm just the messenger!!

[Boogie711]

It might be delayed for you guys at Scuba2K, but Dan's Dive Shop in St. Catharines has them. $475 including valve, Cdn.

[seahunter]

Yep!!
After a year delay, Dan does have his first E-8s and they have the DOT approval stamp too which is all-important. He imports them directly which is a lot of extra work. It also reduces the options available in the event of a service or warranty problem. Rather than having the tank replaced by Diversco, you (Dan) would have to ship it back to PST and wait for their appraisal.
It's not likely and not really a problem if you deal with Dan because he will stand behind his sales.
It's just so much easier and quicker for us and the high volumes we deal with to let Diversco handle PST and the importation. The cost to us and to the diver is the same but the aggravation factor is minimized.
It hasn't been stated here in clear language but perhaps you've gathered that PST is not #1 in customer service nor dependability.
Sometimes, assuming the cost of an item is not increased greatly, it's much better to have a distributor deal with the foreign manufacturer and handle all the importation and service.

BTW, Matt (at Dans) is also held up on further shipments by the supposed galvanization problem. I hope that particular problem does not appear later on these early ones from PST.

[ScubaScott]

for keeping everyone (and me) updated on the status of these tanks.

I guess I'd rather wait and get a tank with no "quality" issues, rather than get one now and have some kind of problem......

Just watching the snow come down.....

SS

[DeepScuba]

After hearing about the galvanization problem, I though the same thing seahunter. I know of a few guys that would be royally cheesed off if that happened!!

Since, but most accounts my 104's are essential the 130's at a higher PSI, I'll stick with my 104's, thank you very much.

If I want 130cf, I'll pump ehm.

As to the trim/weight shaved off the bottom arguement, I've never had a "bottom" heavy problem......(Although at 120lbs full, I have a general over-all weight problem!!)

yes, they're doubles, of course.

[bertschb]

Is there really a problem with the galvanizing? It's hard to believe this company would have a problem with this since they've been doing it forever. I bought a couple of 130's. I'm going to consider this a rumor until I hear otherwise.

[ScubaScott]

bertschb once bubbled...
Is there really a problem with the galvanizing? It's hard to believe this company would have a problem with this since they've been doing it forever. I bought a couple of 130's. I'm going to consider this a rumor until I hear otherwise.

Bert - has Ford or Chrysler never had to recall or stop production on vehicles because of a quality control problem? They've been doing it for a little while as well, you know.

The problem is with current batches they are producing, and I guess in particular, some of the batches that were destined for Canada. If you already have your tanks, I wouldn't worry about it. If you don't have your tanks, then, I will confirm the rumour for you.

SS

[bertschb]

I guess I was thinking the galvanizing process is ONE process. Building a car is several orders of magnitude more complex. I just hadn't heard any official word from PST nor seen any confirmed reports about a "problem". It sounded more to me a regulatory problem with getting DOT stamps in Canada.

If there actually was a problem, why have they been available in the US for a few months?

[wb416]

bertschb once bubbled...
I guess I was thinking the galvanizing process is ONE process. Building a car is several orders of magnitude more complex. I just hadn't heard any official word from PST nor seen any confirmed reports about a "problem". It sounded more to me a regulatory problem with getting DOT stamps in Canada.

If there actually was a problem, why have they been available in the US for a few months?

Maybe U.S. divers are allowed to dive lower quality tanks than our friends up north. :D

The answer may be found in someone's earlier comment about waiting for the TC approval and, subsequently, less than optimal conditions at the mfg facility for galvanizing.

I've been involved in design and installation of control systems for wet and powder coat operations for automotive facilities, and they have their share of quality issues also (especially during shake-out) even though they've been doing it a while.

I doubt if there's a conspiracy to keep our friends up north from enjoying the benefits of the new E-8's. :wacko:

bob

[seahunter]

I don't know if there is a problem with the coating. I didn't say there was. Notice that I used the words 'supposedly' and 'apparently' which is my way of saying "This is what I heard but I can't confirm it!".
PST told Diversco (and Dan's) that is the reason for the current delay. It may be quite true but, it wouldn't be the first time a company said something like that to cover it's own production and shipping inefficiency.

For the record, in my experience, while there is some history of older galvanized steel tanks not having a good coating, it's very rare. Besides, that problem would be covered by the PST warranty.

[Corvallis SCUBA]

I just recently got a shipment of E series tanks in. We had a choice to take delivery weeks ago, or wait for the next batch with the TC rating included. We opted to wait and got the tanks last week. I think it's only the 130's we were waiting on.

As far as the galvanizing goes, that is never an exacting science. I'm sure they are very good at it, but there are always variables and sometimes mistakes in the process. There's a difference between the first and last tank that's processed in each batch. The one good thing is PST GUARANTEES their tanks for 5 years. If there is a problem with the coating, it will certainly show up during that period of time. I don't think there's anything to worry about. Definitely not as much as paint on other manufacturers tanks (remember the Catalina problem).

[seahunter]

.... as I was saying, it's not a problem.
Certainly not for the divers anyway.

[d33ps1x]

PST certainly will stand by their tanks to the point of calling me...the end consumer personally to check out a the issue of a small rust spot where some slag had compromised the galvanizing.

Although the return was handled between the store and diversco they offered, and were more than happy to step in along the way to expediate the process if need be by confirming that this was a warranty issue and should be handled without question.

Great tanks and a big thumbs up on customer service from my standpoint.

BTW no problems at all with my replacement tank.

[Warren_L]

d33ps1x, which ones do you have? I found a couple of E7-120s today (the tank fairy paid me a visit). And on one of them, there was some ink on it (from someone who exchanged the cylinder) and the guys at the store said to rub some alcohol to remove it. So I did, and there are now some shiny spots on the tank. I was worried about this at first, but someone said that this was not a problem.

What happened with your tank to get the rust spots?

[d33ps1x]

Brand new. 1 dive. Ended up with a dime sized rust spot immediately.

Some of the rust spots can be surface spots from slag in the galvanizing process. These aren't much of an issue and could be sanded off but why bother. a 400 or 500 dollar tank should be perfect. Not close. Perfect. Luckily both Pressed Steel and the retailer I dealt with feel the same way.

The galvanized tanks are shiny until they oxidize after a dive or two. Cleaning the ink off with rubbing alcohol would make that part shiny again. Get it wet a few times and it'll dull down to that chain link fence colour.

[seahunter]

Galvanizing is the most practical coating for a steel object exposed to the elements but even galvanizing has it's limitations.

I have dozens of the old steel 72's. Lots were made by PST and many are 50 years old. Most are still OK but on some however, rust spots have appeared. These are most likely due to a surface abrasion that has weakened the galvanized coating and allowed the steel to show. Galvanizing will wear off in time and there is no way to stop that process. In fact, the very slow deterioration of the galvanized coating is to be expected in salt water but that is what protects the steel tank. It's rather like the insertion of a catalytic bar in a hot water tank which corrodes but stops the corrosion of the tank itself (it's not a true catalyst but the analagy is close).
How long will the coating last? Many factors affect that determination not the least of which is the quality of the original coating. I doubt that any diver will live to see the coating of his new galvanized steel tank wear off if he takes care of the tank.
PST is certainly the expert on this subject and their tanks are renown.

I have a very old farm windmill that is galvanized at my home. I had to make a new tower for it when I rebuilt it several years ago because the original galvanized tower was starting to rust from the years of rain, wind and snow. It was originally built in 1911.
The galvanized steel tanks from PST shouldn't be a problem from a longevity perspective.

[ScubaScott]

Anyone got some new news on these tanks? My LDS told me a nasty rumour that TC approved shipments may not even be ready for the 2004 season.

This is only a rumour at this point.

I know shipments are still coming in to southern Ontario......

SS

[bertschb]

I have two E8-130's. Both are DOT and TC stamped. I live in the US but it seems the tanks are available. I'm not sure why they aren't making it up north.

[ScubaScott]

I'm looking for 2 E8-130's. Whats your price?

Seriously, having a hard time understanding this all..... I just want some tanks! Perhaps I'll have to purchase from a shop in the States, and just make sure the TC stamp is on it. Any of the tanks that are shipping up here would make me wonder about the quality. I realize it would be covered under warranty, but I don't want to be shipping my tanks off a month after I get them.

I hear this company named "Faber" makes tanks as well.....

SS

[seahunter]

Don't be silly!

Do you think that the tanks shipped to Canada are not exactly the same as any others?
The tanks are made and then stored at PST until ordered. They are all the same. When an order comes in whether from California or Ontario, the shipper simply goes to the stock and picks up a skid. There are no 'US' tanks and 'Canada' tanks.

The issue of the galvanizing is unconfirmed. I first mentioned that here and made the very broad hint that it was likely an excuse by PST to hide their inability to produce and ship efficiently. They've never been very good at getting product into the customer's hands. This very same situation prefaced the introduction of the first HP steel tanks and then the E7s.

Buy your tanks wherever you can fnd it! It will be the same tank.
We will wait until Diversco has them from PST before we get any. Some stores have ordered them direct from PST and may have some available for sale.

[ScubaScott]

seahunter once bubbled...


Buy your tanks wherever you can fnd it! It will be the same tank.
We will wait until Diversco has them from PST before we get any. Some stores have ordered them direct from PST and may have some available for sale.

This is what I found out later today from my LDS.... and I agree that its the same tank wherever. Thats why I'm trying to wade thru the crap about the TC stamps and and the galv. issue.

I have since located a few shops who have the tanks....

Oh yeah, I heard the bankruptcy rumour again today too....

:)

SS

[seahunter]

What bankruptcy rumor?
I can't spot any post with reference to that.

[Boogie711]

PST had a contract to galvanize gas tanks for GM, they put a lot of money into equipment to do it, the contract fell through, PST was left holding the bag...

This is hardly 'news.'

[seahunter]

So!!

PST has spent fortunes before on failed ventures. Realize first that PST is a tiny arm of a giant corporation that can actually influence American government policy. Their resources are virtually unlimited. Realize second that the tank sales made by PST to the scuba market are barely discernible on their financial sheets.

We're not talking about a company that cannot accept losses -even immense losses. A major portion of the US eastern seaboard would have to take a dive before the corporation from which PST takes it's lead would be affected.

If you mean that the failure of one of their products would result in the removal of that product from the market then I'd agree that can and has happened. But the 'B' word is pure and uneducated speculation.
PST was making high pressure tanks before aluminum was a household word. I have PST tanks that are getting close to 60 years old.

Your decision to buy or not buy a PST steel cylinder should be based on your needs and the tank's ability to meet them. Don't worry about PST's future. I suggest they will be making tanks long after you've hung up your fins.

BTW, Scuba 2000 just received their first shipment of E-8s. It's likely these ones are already sold but the good news is that Diversco is receiving them and shipping them out to dive shops now. Check your LDS.

[Boogie711]

The PST 'b' rumours have LONG been shot down. Relax, we know.

On the other hand, if you'd like to weigh in on anything current, please feel free. :)

[seahunter]

Sorry for the sensitivity Boog.
I've seen the 'B' word hurt many friends in the scuba business during my 30 year industry career. In many cases it was nothing but an attempt to cause hurt with no foundation at all. In many cases the rumors were the cause of the closing of a business that was struggling but making headway.
I am senstitive about it but I'm glad in this case it's been put to rest.

Perhaps, with your invitation, I can seek the readers opinions on what the selling price of the E-8s ought to be. This should be interesting!

Let me explain the situation. Based on the cost of the tanks, the suggested retail should be $650 CDN. ($495US).
It seems as is usually the case with scuba cylinders that the market value is much less than that. I don't know how it gets started, but once a dive store drops the price, others feel compelled to do the same. With tanks it's particularly irritating since there is no other source for scuba tanks, unlike masks, wet suits, etc., than the dive stores.
However, keeping in mind that the dive store owner has made a big investment in his time and money to open a store and provide the divers with his services and that he must see a return on that investment sufficient to sustain the business, what is the 'right' price for an E-8?

Oh boy! What have I done??!!

[boney]

Uh oh Seahunter...

You've opened up the floodgates now! :D
If you really want to see some "action" on that post I think you should post it as a new thread as it is kinda hidden at the bottom of this 6 page marathon..