When To Buy Equipment ?

[scubee-do-be-do]

Hello all -

Newly certified OW diver in atlanta. Hope to make several jaunts down to the caribbean to dive in the near future. Loving the sport so far.

Here is a question on when to buy equipment. I know as 'new' I should wait to buy equipment, check out all the options etc.... go rent several times, see what's good, etc.

BUT, it seems to me that if you get your own stuff and start (practicing) and diving with it as soon as possible, you could used to it and be safer because you WERE used to it. You'd have the same equipment every time.. and know it better.

But if you rent lets say, several times in the next year I doubt that you will be renting very good quality gear. I doubt you would be renting travel size bc's to see what they are like.... or the I-3 BC and the zeagle stilletto BC and many others that people think are good products.

Seems like you would spend more dollars, having different "rental quality" BC's ..... and a different one every time. Doubt you would be renting the good stuff. Dollars that could be a waste of money, that you could apply to equipment of your own.

One thing that comes to mind is a couple that rented instead of bringing thier own BC's and they had trouble removing air from their bc's.. some of the same problems (I wound up using my dump valves sometimes)

I want to be patient. but it seems like there are negatives as well to this.

Are these thoughts valid or am I way off base?

[Bubbletrubble]

If your budget allows for it, research BCDs/regs, try them out, and then make the purchase.
Bear in mind that the cost of servicing regs is not insignificant. If you are only diving once a year on a dive trip, it might make economic sense just to rent.

FWIW, I've seen the condition of rental equipment range from "new" to "super-crappy." A careful diver interested in renting good quality gear would call ahead and ask about the make/model/condition of the rental gear. At least, that's what I'd do.

The vast majority of divers don't know how to do comprehensive, functional pre-dive checks on their BCDs and regs. For those people, it would probably be best to buy their own equipment and travel with it so that they know the maintenance history of the equipment they're using. Most of the complaints I hear from others about malfunctioning rental gear is stuff that would have easily been picked up by a pre-dive check. Something to think about, eh?

[buton]

Whats your budget..

I am recently certified.. I bought

Scubapro mk 11 c200 (mid entry)
Zeagle brigade for bcd
Mares puck air integrater console..

So far so good...

[eternaljonah]

i too have just started to dive and due to lack of funds and availability of equipment here in south india, i have been using the LDS material ( all in very good condition) we dive in groups of 4-11 and you do not always get the same fins/mask, size of BCD, but i find that after using every few dives some different equipment you get used to adapt quickly see what you would like to get once you do get your equipment.. be patient :-)

[TSandM]

I think, if owning your own gear is going to get you in the water more often, you should do it early, and accept that you might end up reselling some things and replacing them, as your diving evolves.

But if you are not going to dive locally, no matter what you own, then I don't see the urgency. Spend some time on line reading; visit some dive shops, and maybe rent a time or two. Yes, you are unlikely to rent equipment at a resort that turns out to be what you want to own. On the other hand, if you rush into buying, you could end up with the i3 -- read the "What did you buy that you regret?" thread for things people ended up wishing they hadn't bought.

[gcarter]

I have all new kit bought shortly after certification, with some small additions (like fin spring straps) as I went on. You will find most will not describe any real functional differences in some of the gear - for example, buy a reg that is appropriate for cold/ warm water, whatever you will be diving, that can be serviced readily, and that fits your price range. For BCD I chose a back inflate - that vs jacket vs BP/W does make a difference you may want to read up on. Where you will be diving may make a difference for exposure protection - if diving cold, wet vs dry is a valid debate that you may want to try before you buy. A good bit of it all is really just preference (my take after much reading) rather than functionality. There is a lot of good gear out there in all different price ranges. Some judicious reading will tell you clearly what to stay away from, and most of the rest is fair game.

I am happy with my regs (Apeks), my BCD (Seaquest Balance), my wetsuit (NeoSport 7MM john & jacket, lowest temp to date 8C), my fins (Mares Avanti X3), my computer (Oceanic Veo 2.0). I don't think I got lucky, just stuck with good names.

I am happy that I know each time I go diving the dive may be different but the gear isn't. I know where everything is, how it fits, where it attaches, how it behaves. I am getting close to the point where the gear fades into the background and just is, where I don't need to think about it. So I can focus on developing my skills and enjoying the environment.

YMMV

[knowone]

Renting and trying what you have limited experience with
is some of the more naive rambling you will be subjected to
when you can second hand equip yourself with exceptional
gear and go diving for a thousand bucks which if people did
there would be a broader understanding of gear and diving

[TartanFrog]

One approach you might consider in renting is to "attempt" to categorize the items you want to try. For example, BCDs come in a variety of styles such as full jacket, back inflate, harness and wing, etc. If they are available locally you can try one of each of those categories in order to help you figure out which type you prefer. Then you can do deeper research into the specifics of the brand and model. You can do the same thing with fins using split fins versus non split, etc.

One of my driving factors was the overall cost of all the equipment. I tend to not buy low-end gear in anything and the cost of scuba gear can be rather daunting when you first begin to look at it. But as you mentioned, now that I have my own gear I am very used to how it operates and it does add to the comfort zone.

For me personally the first thing I got was my fins mask and snorkel. I got those almost immediately after my first resort dive. A lot of LDS require you to have your own set when going through the OW training. Then after renting a couple variety of BCDs I decided I wanted a back inflate travel BC because of it's light weight and ease of packing it. Then after trying a couple of variety of regs and computers I settled on the brand and model I wanted and made the purchase. Since then I have added additional sets of fins, masks and other goodies and will soon add a harness, backplate and wing style BCD.

[faster7581]

i also just got certified, i bought my gear after the pool dive and before my OW.. I wanted to get used to my own gear with instructors around to help out and answer any questions i might have about it... I'm glad I did, a few days after I got my cert, I went out on a charter locally, the rental gear was VERY rough looking, some were missing compasses, just not confidence building gear by any means..

[GrumpyOldGuy]

My thoughts are a little different.

1) Gear Purchases is not a one shot deal, its an incurable sickness without end. So the question is when should you start purchasing.

2) Working with rental gear is a good thing. Testing out different brands and types is one small aspect. Struggling with imperfect gear is a learning experience as frustrating as it can be. Sizing is also critical if you are between sizes.

3) Look at you rental circumstances. Renting from an LDS where you can try it on and check it out before a local shore dive is much lower risk than renting from an unknown dive op on a dream vacation.

4) Consider what your expectations are for gear. If you want to have the absolute perfect, best ever gear, it will take a lot longer to decide than if you are looking for basic gear that gets the job done.

[DivemasterDennis]

I may be the only person on the planet who did this, but I bought my first entire set of equipment before I had my first open water pool session. That was in 1997. My reasons were much like those suggested in the original post. First, I thought if I invested $2000 in equipment I would be a more active diver. Second, as a student at my local dive shop, I was given 20% off everything I bought. Third, I was scheduled to do my open water dives in Maui, and then a couple of other dives after. The rental gear there was going to run about $100.00. Finally, I bought gear from my local shop, tried it all, and it fit me and was comfortable.
So my initial saving from discount and not renting was about $500.00 And the fact is, I was and am a very active diver. When my wife entered the sport a few years later, we did the same with her, and she has been active as well.
If you are buying from a reputable local dive center with whom you will train, and will have a relationship with them for a long time, my view is that it is never too early to acquire equipment. As far as research and consulting friends, fine. But separate personal preference from hard facts on what equipment is designed for the type of diving you will do. I currently dive in widely varying conditions, so have 3 different BC/ reg set ups, and a whole closet full of different exposure gear. But going back to the beginning, I strongly favor acquisition of your own gear as early on as possible (and I don't even own a shop or sell gear!)
DivemasterDennis

[Juardis]

FWIW, I am of the opinion that the more comfortable I am the less likely I am to panic and more likely I am to conserve air and better prepared to react to whatever equipment malfunctions that may occur. Therefore, wife and I bought all our stuff and we were able to practice with it in class, use it in the OW certfication, and now practice in a pool until we can make our trip to the caribbean. Don't know that there's any right or wrong answer except, the right time is when you decide it is.

[Peter Guy]

OP -- You've gotten some good (and perhaps not so good) advice -- here is another take.

My history -- My wife and I bought a set of gear (regs, BC, computer) as we finished our OW class on the theory that IF we had the gear, we'd dive more often. She then acquired a used Dry Suit soon thereafter and I did a couple of months later. The good news is that the several thousand dollars this all cost was well within our disposable income budget -- the perhaps not so good news is that my wife ditched her BC and Computer several months later when she found "a better way." Me, I still use my BC for teaching in the pool while I use the computer for every dive (btw, the 2nd computer finally died and when this one dies, it will not be replaced). We did sell her unwanted BC and recouped about 50% of the original cost.

As you are in the Atlanta area, I'd suggest you join a dive club and/or local online forum and see if you can borrow some gear to decide what you want. If you can, you'll actually be using gear that real people use as opposed to the rental fleet of the LDS (which may, or may not, be the right gear for the type of diving you want to do). At least here in the PNW, it is very common for new divers to borrow gear to try out this type of BC or that type of Dry Suit -- with BCs being, perhaps, the most common thing that is borrowed (except maybe for Can Lights!).

While it is really nice to "try before you buy" it is often not all that feasible. Another piece of good news, there really is much bad gear out there (the i3 might be an exception!) -- especially in the life support gear, BC, Reg, Computer or exposure protection. So even IF you buy something you end up not wanting, as long as you take care of it you should be able to resell it. (OK -- IF $ is a strong consideration, you might want to look at the used market -- but just make sure you take any life support gear, especially a Reg, to get serviced before using.)

Gear doesn't make the diver but poor fitting gear can make it harder for the new diver to perfect the skills needed to be a solid one.

YMMV

[fjpatrum]

I'm sure not the most qualified person, but as a newb with a relatively low number of dives, I think your thought process is pretty well intact and logical.

I bought my gear right after OW class (before cert dives) but I was searching for the "right" gear as soon as I signed up for the class. I bought all used gear after doing some research online and got to test all the gear (on land) I bought before I paid for it. I got the regs serviced at a local shop and I've been happy ever since. I've definitely dived more (though still not a lot) than I would have if I had to rent gear every time. My biggest issue is the time I have available and adding trips to rental shops before and after a local dive would make it even harder to do.

I don't think you need to rent a lot of gear but it makes sense to have some options in mind and do a lot of research based on what you think you want/need for your diving. You'll find a huge amount of information right here on scubaboard, if you haven't already, that will lead you in a couple different directions. Consider the pros and cons of each and decide for yourself which direction you want to go. Worst thing that happens is a few dives (or a few hundred) you decide to go in a different direction gear-wise. That really won't cost you too much in the long run unless you're replacing very expensive regs. Buying used will also reduce the amount of "loss". So far all the gear I've replaced I've either sold for the same price I paid, or I just kept as "spares".

[Boardndave]

I know many people who completed certification, dove on one trip, then haven't been out since. That makes the initial certification cost incredibly expensive. If you want to keep diving, your best bet is to buy gear so that you're not put off by the price of continually renting gear. Of course, you have to buy that gear first.

[TSandM]

Hadn't noticed you were in Atlanta! Get in touch with katepnatl here on SB and see if you guys can get together and talk equipment options!

[Juardis]

one more thought. We bought all our gear at our LDS where we were getting certified. As students, we got a 10-15% discount. The owner guaranteed us that he'd refund all but 15% (restocking fee) IF we came back from our vacation and decided diving wasn't for us. That helped sway us into purchasing our stuff new through him. Of course, now we've got to trust the owner of the shop if we do indeed dislike diving, but he has a great reputation in our community so I'm not too worried. Plus, I don't think we're going to hate diving. (But if all we did were quarry dives, I swear he'd be buying it all back :D)

[freewillie]

I may be the only person on the planet who did this, but I bought my first entire set of equipment before I had my first open water pool session. That was in 1997.

My dive instructor bought all of his gear, mask, fins, BC, regs, everything before he even signed up for scuba classes! Now he's a PADI instructor.

Owning your gear does promote diving more often and frequently.

[martinskarin]

After my first trip I decided to buy the gear that I found I could not rent in good quality and size such as wetsuite, booties, mask and computer. Until now I have been able to rent BC:s and regulators in good condition and could find a size suitable for me and will not buy this gear in a little more while at least, it adds service costs and possibly some transportation issues whlie flying for example (weight) not only the cost of buying it.

For the gear I bought I never really found good condition gear, it is always broken and fit poorly.
Computer was my first buy and I recommend everyone to buy that first, it is a good safety and also fun thing to have.

But as soneone said, if purchasing gear will make you dive more (maybe you have good local places to dive, I dont) get it, it will pay !

[gcarter]

My dive instructor bought all of his gear, mask, fins, BC, regs, everything before he even signed up for scuba classes! Now he's a PADI instructor.

Owning your gear does promote diving more often and frequently.

Even tanks - I had no intention of getting my own tanks. Then I saw a deal I could not resist. LDS was moving some 5 year old tanks out of their rental fleet (they made them current hydro/ vis). Cost of the tanks was given back in air fill cards. IOW, it was effectively prepay your airfills and get the tank for free. Too good to pass up.

Makes it MUCH easier to go when the mood strikes rather than have to plan ahead to dothe rentals.

[freewillie]

There are two issues IMO. The first is, how often do you think you will dive? How much can you afford to buy, and is it worth the $$ to have gear that you may use only few times a year? I've found that rentals can range from top line gear to passable and not very good. For that reason alone I don't want my scuba trip ruined by crappy rentals. Why shell out thousands of bucks for that scuba vacation only to have it ruined by crappy gear?

Recently I took my 13 year old daughter to Catalina Island to kelp dive off of Avalon beach. I checked out a number dive shops online, checked out a few threads here on SB. I picked out a dive shop, they were really nice but I had called several times to asked about renting gear from them. I even confirmed that they had cold water gear for kids. They said that they had lots of gear for kids and that it wouldn't be a problem. The wetsuit and BC fit her well, but that was about all. They didn't have a hood, gloves or booties small enough for her and wound up putting her in full foot fins that didn't fit well to begin with and she dove in 53 degree water with no hood or gloves. What was supposed to be a two tank dive became a single tank dive and we called the second dive because she was uncomfortable, cold, and miserable. She may have tried a second time if I had pushed her but diving is supposed to be fun, not miserable.

After that I came home, went online and she now has hood, wetsuit, fins and booties. By the time we go diving again she'll complete the ensemble with mask and gloves. For now we'll rent her BC and regs but I may buy her a good set of regs that she can have for years.

As others have said, you don't really have to buy all the gear at once. But my $0.02 is start with personal fit items especially if you are hard to fit.
In order I personally recommend starting with:

1) Wetsuit. Nothing will ruin your dive quicker than being cold and miserable. Keep in mind you can get hypothermia even in warm water if you have multiple dives over multiple days. Proper exposure to elements is a must.

2) BC. Personal fit item but also is the foundation for all your other gear. I personally feel more comfortable diving when I know with my eyes closed where I've placed my octo, console gauge, etc. It's like rental cars v. your own car. You might have to look for little bit to find where the light switch is for the headlights in a rental. Same for your BC.

3) Computer v. Regs. At this point I'd say get either next depending on cost, or both if you can afford. I'd vote for computer since I had two instances where the rental computer on the console malfunctioned. After the second incident I went online and found a entry level dive computer as open box demo for $125, well over half off the price if brand new. My LDS rents Atomic Z2 regs and since I'm a regular I always get dibs so I've not felt a strong need to purchase my regs right away.

Sorry if it's a little long. As posters have already mentioned accumulating scuba gear never stops. I must confess I've been inflicted with this incurable illness as GrumpyOldGuy has put it. And, not only do I have it for myself I can now add my illness with need to purchase gear for my daughter too!!

[davetowz]

My suggestion to new divers is the first gear purchase should be a membership to DAN.
DAN: Divers Alert Network - Scuba Diving and Dive Safety Association (http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/)
Anyone who dives and is not a member needs to look at the things DAN does for us divers..and the benefits that come with belonging to DAN...wow.
I work in a shop and I always sell a new diver on DAN before I sell them on a reg or wetsuit.

[scubee-do-be-do]

Good thoughts on this!

My wife has accused me of 'going whole hog' ($$$) when I get into a hobby. Umm lets see, drums, sailboat, mens baseball leauge, classic car stuff. Something has got to go on the hobby list so I can dive more!

Then there is the issue of time to go diving. And I own a small business that requires me to be here a good bit. I'm not sure where I will dive outside of the caribbean, that is yet to be determined. So time and travel a bit of an issue.

What is the cost of servicing equipment yearly if you own it ?


A funny place to shop...check this ad... :D SCUBA GEAR RARELY USED (http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/spo/2652543564.html)

I dont THINK I will be shopping here!!!!

[Paladin]

Since you're located in Atlanta, why not go up to Divers Supply in Marietta and check them out. They have a lot of good gear at great prices and can probably service anything you buy from them.

[Colliam7]

BUT, it seems to me that if you get your own stuff and start (practicing) and diving with it as soon as possible, you could used to it and be safer because you WERE used to it. You'd have the same equipment every time.. and know it better.Yes, . . . BUT - you will eventually find out that the gear itself makes a limited / minimal difference in your diving. Certainly, the more familiar you are with your gear, the more comfortable you will be. But, there really is only a modest amount of difference, in recreational diving terms, between brands and between gear styles (e.g., the classic 'jacket' vs 'back-inflate', vs 'BP/W' debate).
Seems like you would spend more dollars, having different "rental quality" BC's ..... and a different one every time. Doubt you would be renting the good stuff. Dollars that could be a waste of money, that you could apply to equipment of your own. It is always true that rental dollars could be applied toward a gear purchase. If you have the disposable income, by all means consider buying your own gear now, and start using it. You will probably feel more comfortable, and you can possibly concentrate more on skills in your diving. But, if you are using rental gear, you can still continue developing as a diver.
One thing that comes to mind is a couple that rented instead of bringing thier own BC's and they had trouble removing air from their bc's.. some of the same problems (I wound up using my dump valves sometimes)It is true that there are threads where divers, unfamiliar with their gear, had issues. But, that does not have to be the case. Similarities among gear far outweigh the differences, in terms of actual safety and ability to enjoy a dive. Now, having said that, the statement is also more true for divers with several hundred dives, than for divers in the 20 - 50 dive range. Newbies generally won't see a difference among gear styles - they are still learning fundamantals (CAVEAT: that is a general statement, and I readily acknowledge that individuals may be different). Divers with additional, limited experience will possibly notice a difference, but not necessarily have the experience to fully understand how to compensate.
I want to be patient. but it seems like there are negatives as well to this.There is nothing wrong with waiting, and there is nothing wrong with buying your own gear early. If you do the latter, plan to replace some of it relatively soon, some of it later. Even very experienced divers may buy gear that they later decide they don't like. As Garrobo said, it is an evolutionary process. Even if you use rental gear and wait, you will probably buy at least some gear that you decide (AFTER buying it) that you just don't like. But - personal bias here - if you learn to dive in a manner that is mostly 'gear-independent', you will find your diving is more enjoyable.

[OzGriffo]

And here's my opinion (for what it's worth).

I never intended to buy any gear apart from a wrist mounted dive computer. My reasoning was
a) most of my diving was going to be on holidays
b) travelling with dive gear is a pain
c) each location would have different requirements for thermal protection - and the local dive shops would have that for rent
d) it was a large investment for a sport that i was new to, and might not continue to actively pursue

However, after a recent diving holiday, i came home, and bought an entire set of gear 2nd hand off someone else who spent a bucket load then decided they didn't really like diving that much :-) I was very lucky as it was all in my size, and almost brand new (30 dives total), and all top of the line gear.

The reason i did this was
a) the first shop we dove with on holidays, had truly scary equipment. Out of 3 sets, none had a working depth guage, and one had a non functioning SPG. Which I only discovered after realising that i just must have used more air than indicated.

b) My partner had a 'moment' when she lost her reg just as she was breathing in and copped a lung full of water. Unfortunately the primary got tangled up keeping it just out of reach, and she couldn't find her occy easily. Why? Because that particular set of rental gear had the occy in an unusual spot, so she was looking in the wrong place while trying not to drown. The importance of gear familiarity was hammered home.

Now on the downside, given more time, I would have researched more and probably bought a BPW setup, or at least tried one before buying a jacket BCD. But I am definately diving heaps more than I would if i rented, have a set of top line gear that will last me for years, and never have to worry about dodgy rental gear ever again. And to be honest, if I wasn't diving so much, I probably wouldn't even want a BP/W in the first place.
Just be warned that the reg / bcd/ computer is just the start, the list of kit seems never ending!

[Bubbletrubble]

The reason i did this was
a) the first shop we dove with on holidays, had truly scary equipment. Out of 3 sets, none had a working depth guage, and one had a non functioning SPG. Which I only discovered after realising that i just must have used more air than indicated.

@OzGriffo: Why didn't you discover the non-functioning SPG before the reg even left the rental department?
Even if the reg left the shop without an inspection and battery of tests, wasn't the issue recognized during pre-dive checks?
It's your gas supply we're talking about here...and it's also your buddy's emergency gas.

Most dive ops that I've worked with have you check out rental gear in the shop and carry it onto the boat. It makes sense to test out everything right away, so that another fully functional reg/gauge setup can be substituted at that time. Unfortunately, every time I go into a dive shop I see customers leaving the rental department without checking anything. They must be very trusting individuals!

[OzGriffo]

@OzGriffo: Why didn't you discover the non-functioning SPG before the reg even left the rental department?
The gear was provided at the dive site, no ability to pre-check. And the guage went "up" when the bottle was turned on, but got stuck on the way back down during the dive at around 200bar.

[freewillie]

Just be warned that the reg / bcd/ computer is just the start, the list of kit seems never ending!

You've been afflicted too !!! that need too keep buying scuba gear !

[Paladin]

What affliction? I'm certainly not addicted to buying gear. I only have a dozen or so regulators (I haven't counted them lately), five pairs of fins, six masks, eleven tanks, three wetsuits, three BCs...

[masizemore]

What affliction? I'm certainly not addicted to buying gear. I only have a dozen or so regulators (I haven't counted them lately), five pairs of fins, six masks, eleven tanks, three wetsuits, three BCs...

Thanks Paladin, I am only on my first set of all the above and you are telling me this disease just gets WORSE! :D For us, it was the comfort/familiarity factor. We used rental gear during our first attempt at OW.. It was an disaster for us (we had other issues but easier to blame the gear lol). During our second and successful attempt, we were at a shop that had a pool onsite and could try everything in their inventory during our training to see what worked for us. Because of that, we had bought BC/Regs/Computer/Lights/Knives/Gloves/Hoods from them (Already had mask/snorkel/boots/fins from first attempt) before our cert dives. Was better to know by instinct where everything was when we hit salt water and actual depths. I understand the budget issues though, we certified as a family so it was hit x 3 but has been a great investment as we are already diving/planning more than we would have if we hadn't bought the gear.

[tengsr]

I bought my reg new, and everything else was second hand. My reg is an Apex XTX50, and I'm happier than a pig in s--t every time I get to use it. The day I went to buy it I only planned on spending half as much, but when I got to my LDS and they were supposed to be closed 2 hours prior they let me in, then the owner went on a forty five minute speech about different regs, I decided that I don't want to be back within a year looking for a better reg. I think the reg was 650 or so and everything else together was about five hundred bucks. I've been considering a zeagle sar or 911 BCD for my next purchase, lots of the reviews say its overkill but who the hell knows what I'll be doing in the next ten years. I was bs'ing with a cop one time and he was telling me how hurting they were for divers

[tengsr]

My used BC's a peice of s--t. It has a leaky inflator, I took it apart and fixed it once but it didn't last long. I'm not spending any money on that old thing, so for now I manually inflate, I just leave the whip tucked in behind my tank