Dive Leader Loyalty? - What would you do?

Did a search, but did not find this issue addressed:

On a recent dive vacation to Hawaii, My son and I did 9 dives with an outfit that was recommended and suited us well.

On our last dive, a new Dive Master (for the day) decided to do a drift dive. We were 6 divers and during the pre-dive brifing told us that we had to ascend as a group so we wouldn't separate when surfacing. In short order we entered the water from the drifting boat and descended to ~50 feet. So far so good.

As we drifted along between 40-70 feet, staying together as instructed, I (also as nstructed) let the DM know when I had used 1/2 of my air (1500 PSI) and had 1000 left and both times got the "OK" sign as we continued the dive. When at 700 PSI I again signaled the DM at 60 feet that I should start my ascend, he gave me the "OK" sign then got pre-occupied with 2 divers in our party who had problems with buoancy and made no motion to ascend. As my air got crept past the 500 PSI level, and seeing the DM making no motion to ascend, I was torn as to whether to ascend on my own or to rely on the DM's lead. After what seemed like a long whille, he finally released the surface marker and we finally ascended as a group to 20 feet for a safety stop at a time where I had 300 PSI left. I knew we were close to the serface, I wasn't really overly worried, more puzzled that everything I had learned ("always surface with no less than 500 PSI") was ignored by this particular DM. After 3 mins we all ascended and when breaking the surface had 100 PSI left (50 after inflating my BC in pretty choppy water) - and so all was good - right?

When I spoke to my more experienced buddies down in the SSI dive shop, they all said I should have ignored the DM and ascended to a safety stop when I was at 700, but had I done that, I would have separated from the group including at the surface (which could have been a (solvable) problem).

So, was this a unique very unusual problem? or is it more common for some DM to push the air beyond the basic training recommendation? I chose to follow the DM instruction despite knowing that it was pushing it and ignoring everything I had been taught - was that wrong?

As a new diver, it's easy to "just do what the DM says" because, after all, he's the pro, right?

But it's your life, and you're the one responsible for it. You followed the plan, and when your gas supply said it was time to turn the dive, you signaled the DM. Good. Perfect. But when it became apparent that he wasn't coming up, you should have shot your bag (you do carry either a DSMB or at LEAST a safety sausage, right?) and ascended to your safety stop. If currents and available gas allowed, you could drift along at that depth above the party. If not, you complete your safety stop and go get back on the boat.

Consider this: you clearly did not have enough gas for both you and your buddy (your son?). So what would you have done if in case of a problem during your ascent?

Dive your dive, not the DMs.

Personally I think if I was at 60 feet and with 500 PSI (or earlier), I would give the DM the double thumbs up, and head that way. According to the latest article in Dive Alert Magazine (DAN) over 40% of diver fatalities are from OOA situations, which can be avoided. To me when you give the thumbs up, you are calling the dive and thats the end of story. I'm new to diving myself, and look forward to hearing how others would of dealt with this.

Read this:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...ering-diving/283566-who-responsible-what.html

Screw the DM. He is not keeping you safe. You are. He will not pay for your funeral or chamber ride or your son's. You will. DM's that give you a plan and then violate that plan or change it at whim get people hurt. The correct signal at 700 psi was a middle finger and a wave bye-bye.

The DM did not have a good day becaue of the buouyancy issue, but the situation was easily manageable by you without any need for middle fingers. You said, "When at 700 PSI I again signaled the DM at 60 feet that I should start my ascend, he gave me the "OK" sign." He knew what you were doing. When you saw him preoccupied, you could have started to ascend with your son and made sure to maintain a position above the group during that ascent. That is pretty easy to do. From the depths you describe, you will see them easily, and they will see you. You would have reached your safety stop depth while watching them begin their ascent. They would have then ascended to join you. You would have had a longer safety stop than the rest of the group, but that is not a bad thing. Then you would have surfaced with the group. Everyone would have been happy.

A couple of years ago I was leading a dive trip in Cozumel, where all dives are drift dives. I had to do the fourth Open Water certifying dive for a student on a dive scheduled to go to 90-100 feet maximum depth. A student on that certifying dive cannot go below 60 feet. We talked it over with the DM, and the solution was for me to stay with the student in shallower water while he led the rest of the group at the deeper depths. It was perfectly easy for us to keep visual contact with each other. As the main group continued the dive, they got progressively shallower, and eventually we were one big happy family again. That is essentially what you could jhave done for those couple of minutes.

It's your life. Scr*** the DM.

"The correct signal at 700 psi was a middle finger and a wave bye-bye."


Ah yes...give him the finger.....how mature.

As BoulderJohn stated he gave you the OK....did you ask when on board what he meant by the OK?Possible he was OK'ing you to ascend with your son as BoulderJohn suggested.

I would have gone up, once the planned air was reached - that is my time to ascend. Perhaps it could have been clarified during the dive brieifing if the air situation was the marker for everyone to start to ascend, regardless of who reached it first, but that is usualy how I interpret it.

I am afrarid I would not rely on the DM not getting distracted and forgetting that I was getting low on air. As has already been said I am responsible for my own safety as well as my buddy - and if I was diving with my son I wouldn't even consider putting him at risk because I potentially didn't have the air to sort myself out et alone assist him if I needed to.

Regarding the SMB issue I would suspect that the OP didn't have an SMB - when I dive now I use my own kit (BC, regs etc.) except a wetsuit which I rent (travelling weight restrictions) and I now always carry an SMB and reel, but when I used to rent gear I never once was offered one, and it was not an option - is anyones experience of renting gear different, do you get supplied with an SMB and reel ? - P

It's important to be assertive during the pre-dive planning process. Communication is key. At the end of a dive briefing, you should have a very clear idea what you should do in a situation where you reach turn-pressure or ascent-pressure (on a drift dive).

As soon as the DM described how he wanted the entire group to "ascend together," you needed to ask him for clarification. The fact of the matter is that people have different gas consumption rates. In a group of 6 divers, someone is bound to run through his/her tank air faster than the others. If that happens, you should know whether the DM wants that diver to ascend alone with his/her buddy to a shallow safety stop and meet up with the rest of the group when it ascends to shallow water (as boulderjohn described) OR as soon as the person with the highest gas consumption rate reaches a certain pressure, everyone will ascend together. For dives in which it is critical for the entire group to remain together, you must have contingency plans, e.g., what happens when someone is having problems equalizing during descent, what happens if one diver has an equipment issue, is it OK for a buddy team to abort the dive on its own for whatever reason, etc.).

Another point I will make is that you really should learn about proper gas management. Unfortunately, the larger instructional agencies trumpet the be-back-on-the-surface-with-500-psi rule, but don't teach divers how to do that. You need to have a rough estimate of your gas consumption and know how to calculate gas usage during an ascent/stops. I highly recommend reading NWGratefulDiver's essay on gas management.

Finally, I'll agree with what others have written here. You need to be assertive underwater. When you and your buddy are at any given depth, each diver should know how much gas is required to get both divers in the buddy team to the surface in a safe manner. Each diver should be carrying enough of a safety reserve in the event that the buddy loses access to his own tank gas. No diver should ever purposefully violate that safety reserve (unless there's an emergency). If you are approaching that safety reserve mark for a certain depth, it's clear what you should do -- signal your buddy and ascend. Out of courtesy, it would be nice to signal the DM if you have the time to do that and you can get his attention. With a DM who is herding a large group of divers around underwater, it's not always easy to get his attention. Certainly, this is a scenario that should be discussed during the pre-dive briefing. If the DM fails to bring up such a scenario during his pre-dive talk, it's your responsibility to do so.

You did the right thing. Better to be yelled at on the boat than run out of air. If he did yell at you- switch dive operators. You could have tried to ascend to 15-20 feet and then met up with the group as they surfaced- you would ahve used a lot less air that way and stayed under and away from propellers. I would always recommend you have a safety sausage with you too. Or better yet, your own dive flag.