lQQking for bp/w setup

[8buck]

anyone have one for sale or laying around collecting dust......

[jonnythan]

Contact Scott Koplin at info@selchie.com or just head to http://www.covci.com/wings.htm and order one.

[cyklon_300]

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?query=backplate+harness&ht=1&sosortproperty=1&from=R10&BasicSearch=

[Wendy]

Are you wating to get an Al or SS bp and also what wings are you looking at getting (brand, style, lift)? Standard single piece webbing or something like a transpac?

[8buck]

something like peter let me use i know it was for doubles but says singles also. i think it was the treck. but anything will do i will change anything i need to get the job done with the equimpment i get... I just want a bp/w and plus i am going to set up a set of my al80's and use them for doubles i have five so i can just leave two for that

[Wendy]

I think that its best to have one wing for singles and one wing for doubles. You can use the trek wing for both, but its not the best set up in the world for a single tank (I also prefer my wings without bungee, that why I removed them from my trek wing I use for my doubles).

I know you are wanting to do cavern and intro to cave at some point, but both of these courses are done in a single tank usually and I don't know for what type diving you plan on using the double al80's. Double 80's are not the tanks of choice for the caverns and caves here in Florida. Also for overhead diving you will need DIN valves and regs, so that is something else for you to think about when you get to that point in your diving.

So with all that in mind I think you should go for a single tank wing such as the Halvyon pioneer or eclipse or the Oxycheg single tank wing. Probably an Al bp will be good for you, cuz when you do go to doubles you don't want to be overweighted.

You can check at www.cavediver.net they have a gear sectin for sale section there. I'll keep my eye out for anything I think you can use and send the info your way.

[8buck]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm welllllllllll anyways


my bp/w will be my primary doubles setup i have a black diamond for my single tank and i read on one of these post that their are a couple guys diving al80's doubles with the black diamond but after awhile the back plate is starting to rip. Also I have been reading over in the tank valve and something else thread about diving al80's and the cave and caveren and it comes down to prefrence some like the steel weighting them down and some like the bouyant of al80's when they are running low on gas wich means anyways you should be on your way out or up from whatever kind of diving your doing. I am sure one has an advantage over the other being more gas more ditchable weight but with what i have weather i am in a overhead at 190' or in open water at 190 my gear i dive with now works just fine and all my valves work perfect. I own 5 al80's and no hp or lp steel so have no use for din yet. Just want me a back plate and wing. i hope that does not mean i need all the latest and greatest dir gear just to have a bp/w... And I personally did not have any problems diving the trek on a sta. maybe some do have certain problems with certain gear and some people over come and adapt. When I get mine I will put some split shot on my cord to my dump so it will float down a little more like it does with doubles. If i am in that big of a hurry to dump my air in an emergancy then i will use my knife and cut my wing. But other than my knob floating a little (no more than my black diamond) it was a nice little dive..... thanks for all the help and advice from everyone

[Wendy]

sorry for high-jacking your thread here, but since I already kinda have........

If you intend on using the doubles for cavern or intro to cave (and you will probably have to get the instructors persmission to dive doubles for those courses) I do believe that you will need DIN valves and regs for the tanks. Its not an issue of hp or lp steel tanks having DIN valves, its that when your valves make contact with the hard limestone ceiling of the cavern or cave it can knock the first stage off the valve. A DIN valve is a much more secure connection. You'll learn that when you do the training.

You mentioned "some like the bouyant of al80's when they are running low on gas wich means anyways you should be on your way out or up from whatever kind of diving your doing", actually you will learn the rule of 1/3's for cavern and the 1/6's for intro when you do your training.

And also I never mentioned anything about DIR in my post...why are you?

[8buck]

Junior Member



Registered: Sep 2002
Dallas, TX
Posts: 94
why not doubles on AL?
I've never seen nor heard of doubles using aluminum, my guess is they would be too bouant?

what about neutraly bouant AL80's?

What is the cheapest (cheap, but safe) way to get onto doubles?

edit: just saw a post talking about double al80's, would you need less lift on the BC to handle something like that since al is bouant?


Last edited by FIXXERVI6 on 07-09-2003 at 06:17 PM

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07-09-2003 06:09 PM




JohnF Akumal 07-09-2003 06:16 PM


JohnF
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Registered: Feb 2001
Stratford, Ontario
Posts: 280
Akumal
Double al80's are popular with the cave divers in the Akumal area. I suppose because cavers plan to end their dives with a fair amount of gas left in the tanks, the buoyancy issue is moot.

JohnF



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07-09-2003 06:16 PM




DA Aquamaster Al tanks displace more water due to a thicker... 07-09-2003 07:27 PM


DA Aquamaster
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Registered: Jun 2003
South Dakota
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Al tanks displace more water due to a thicker...
Al tanks displace more water due to a thicker overall wall thickness than a steel tank and this combined with similar weights means the Al tanks are more bouyant than comparable steel tanks. There is however a Super 80 available that offers better bouyancy characteristics.

Double 80's can actually be a bit more stable to dive as the tanks are above your center of gravity and the AL tanks are a bit more bouyant and/or less negative than a steel tank. With a properly sized wing however it really is not an issue one way or the other.

Steel tanks can be excessively negative in some cases and it is not a bad idea to use the more neutrally bouyant AL tanks for stage tanks.

In the end it comes down to your indiviual diving and weight requirements. You need to have enough weight to stay down with a pair of nearly empty AL doubles and if the weight required to achieve that is not excessive, it really is not a problem.



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07-09-2003 07:27 PM




Diver Lori Yup...we used AL80's in Akumal. Usually a V-... 07-09-2003 07:44 PM


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oHIo
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Yup...we used AL80's in Akumal. Usually a V-...
Yup...we used AL80's in Akumal. Usually a V-weight or two in between the tanks takes care of any buoyant issues. AL80's due to their buoyancy characteristics make them ideal for wetsuit diving.....no need for redundant floatation. Plus the dives are long, but many times very shallow.....and the AL80's fit perfectly.


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07-09-2003 07:44 PM




Ron Brandt Using Doubles 07-13-2003 09:02 PM


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Registered: Aug 2001
Western Canada
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Using Doubles
Al 80's for wetsuit.

Steel 95's or 103's for drysuit.

Ron


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07-13-2003 09:02 PM




ElectricZombie I use double AL 80s since I dive a wetsuit.... 07-13-2003 09:24 PM


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I use double AL 80s since I dive a wetsuit....
I use double AL 80s since I dive a wetsuit. I'll pick up a set of 104s when I get a drysuit.


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07-13-2003 09:24 PM




Genesis PST E-series... 07-13-2003 10:25 PM


Genesis
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Registered: Aug 2002
Destin
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PST E-series...
steels are a good compromise.

More gas availability, and only SLIGHTLY negative (-1.5 or so) empty.

This means they're quite good with a wetsuit; just about the only rig you'd have trouble with is if you wanted to dive a bathing suit (no exposure protection at all.)

With my steel BP + STA + HP100 (or 120) I need 2lbs of lead on my belt. That's a very nice, low-impact weight belt! If I add a 3 mil hooded vest I add another 4lbs or so to the belt, and I'm cool in that configuration as well.

Diving dry I require 15lbs in my "usual" config (changes somewhat depending on the undergarmets, but that's pretty typical.)

The AL tank requires me to add 4-5lbs to the above weights (rather than diving the HP steel)

An LP tank would be impossibly heavy in a light (3 mil) wetsuit and only marginally "ok" with the hooded vest. It would, however, require less external weight in the drysuit config.


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07-13-2003 10:25 PM




DA Aquamaster A standard 2250 psi steel 72 is also a viable... 07-14-2003 01:23 AM


DA Aquamaster
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A standard 2250 psi steel 72 is also a viable...
A standard 2250 psi steel 72 is also a viable alternative to an AL 80 for doubles. They are only a couple pounds more negative and much more bouyant than most other larger capacity LP steel tanks and more bouyant than the faber streel 71.4.

A run of the mill steel 72 has all the advantagves of steel, plus they are normally very affordable on the used market.



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07-14-2003 01:23 AM




Padipro AL 90's 07-14-2003 03:14 AM


Padipro
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Registered: May 2002
South Florida
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AL 90's
Aluminum doubles are popular here in South Florida for the same reasons mentiond earlier. With the warm water here only a light wetsuit is required to stay warm. The added weight of steel tanks is not needed. I use double Catlina AL 90's. Even with a 5mil semi dry in the winter and an AL backplate I'm so negitive that I have to add air to slow my decent. If I used steels I don't think I could get off the bottom.

Scott


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07-14-2003 03:14 AM




FIXXERVI6 well, I think I've picked out my BC, fine for... 08-10-2003 12:28 AM


FIXXERVI6
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Registered: Sep 2002
Dallas, TX
Posts: 94
well, I think I've picked out my BC, fine for...
well, I think I've picked out my BC, fine for singles, and doubles.

Now my question is If I were to do double 80's, do I need double everything!?

like, two pressure gauges, two first stages, two primary second stages!??

Reason I ask is because the manifold has the isolator valve, if you crank it, you have to switch to the other side, witch means, two of everything, including pressure gauges, or am I off base?



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08-10-2003 12:28 AM




jonnythan [QUOTE]FIXXERVI6 once bubbled... [B]... 08-10-2003 12:46 AM


jonnythan
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Registered: Apr 2002
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[QUOTE]FIXXERVI6 once bubbled... [B]...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FIXXERVI6 once bubbled...
well, I think I've picked out my BC, fine for singles, and doubles.

Now my question is If I were to do double 80's, do I need double everything!?

like, two pressure gauges, two first stages, two primary second stages!??

Reason I ask is because the manifold has the isolator valve, if you crank it, you have to switch to the other side, witch means, two of everything, including pressure gauges, or am I off base?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Before anyone answers this, let me say that assembling and diving some doubles based on some info from SB and a couple of pictures is a very bad idea. It looks like it would be very easy... get a couple of tanks, some bands, a manifold... put them together, toss on a couple of first stages, bolt to a bp and go diving. Get some instruction of some sort from someone who knows what they're doing.

That being said, you'd have two first stages but one of everything else. Off of one first stage you'd run your primary regulator and BC inflator hose, then off the other first stage you'd have your SPG, drysuit inflator hose (if you have one), and backup regulator. I think this is how it's normally done


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08-10-2003 12:46 AM




ElectricZombie You might want to do some more research bef... 08-10-2003 12:47 AM


ElectricZombie
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Registered: Mar 2002
Greenville, NC
Posts: 1004
You might want to do some more research bef...
You might want to do some more research before buying anything, it sounds like you're not familiar with how doubles work.

With doubles you will need two 1st stages, two 2nd stages, one pressure gague and one inflator hose.

What BCs did you choose?


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08-10-2003 12:47 AM




FIXXERVI6 I'm not familiar with doubles, thats why I am... 08-10-2003 01:18 AM


FIXXERVI6
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Registered: Sep 2002
Dallas, TX
Posts: 94
I'm not familiar with doubles, thats why I am...
I'm not familiar with doubles, thats why I am asking :-P

The zeagle ranger, the standard bladder is not overkill for my single neutral 80, but also a good BC to use on double neutral 80's when I get to that point.

Tried on on, liked the fit/features/price, and even if I never make it to doubles, still a good BC.

I plan on taking advanced nitrox and decompression diving classes before I make investments into manifolds and such, especially seeing how I dont' think there is a lot of good 2 tank deco dives in TX :-)



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08-10-2003 01:18 AM




Don Burke aluminum doubles 08-11-2003 11:21 AM


Don Burke
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Registered: May 2003
Chesapeake, Virginia
Posts: 438
aluminum doubles
Aluminum 80s are really good for starting out with doubles since they work well with a wetsuit and you can dive them dry if need be. If you change your mind, you can sell them or break them down. AL 80s can always be used for something in diving and you can sell the bands and manifold.

I tried my AL 80s with a drysuit and immediately went looking for some small steel tanks. The amount of surface weight required with aluminum and a drysuit was more than I was willing to deal with. Your mileage may vary.

Basically, there are two problems you need to be able to deal with:

1. You jump in the water, snag something on the way in, and your BC inflator hose is ripped to shreds. How much weight do you need to ditch to stay on the surface?

2. You get problem 1 fixed and try the dive again. At the bottom, you immediately snag something and your BC inflator hose is ripped to shreds. How much weight do you need to ditch to get to the surface?

With my wetsuit and full 80s, the answer to #1 is about eight pounds due to the weight of the gas in the tanks minus a little extra bouyancy from the wetsuit at the surface.

The answer to #2 (assuming 100 feet) is about twenty pounds due to the weight of the gas in the tanks plus some missing bouyancy due to wetsuit compression at depth.

With AL80s and a steel backplate, I wear twenty-four pounds on a belt with my wetsuit. That gives me enough ditchable weight.

With my steel 72s and a steel backplate, I would only need about twelve pounds on a belt with the wetsuit. The smaller gas capacity makes the answer to #1 about seven pounds and the answer to #2 twenty-three pounds. If I switch to an aluminum backplate (or jacket BC for that matter), I'll end up with seventeen pounds on the belt, still not enough for my taste. I'd have to swim up at least three pounds, more if I take weight off the belt to allow for a dive light or tools.

Perhaps there are steel tank combinations that makes sense with a wetsuit. I haven't seen one.



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08-11-2003 11:21 AM




FIXXERVI6 as far as ditchable weight, that wouldn't be ... 08-11-2003 11:42 AM


FIXXERVI6
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Registered: Sep 2002
Dallas, TX
Posts: 94
as far as ditchable weight, that wouldn't be ...
as far as ditchable weight, that wouldn't be very much with double neutrals.

No wet suit I wore 4lbs on my neutral 80, and in testing I can sink with no weight, and 900 psi in the tank, so I may tweak this back to 2lbs on my next dive.

doubles, I would assume I would wear no weight, or 2 to 4lbs with a 3 mil on, because of the low weight would considering standard 80's be better to have more ditchable weight?



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08-11-2003 11:42 AM




The time now is 08:41 PM.


Pages (3): [ 1 2 3 » ] Last Thread Next Thread


and then the rest of the thread......

[Wendy]

that was a long post there Brandon, could have just supplied a link to the thread (http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31398&perpage=15&display=&pagenumber=1), but anyway....

I never said I don't like double AL80's, I do, I'm wanting to get a set myself for ow diving in the ocean. But did you notice that a couple of those folks said that cave divers in Akumal (that's in Mexico, not Florida, different caves over there) do use double Al80's, that's the preferred set up for over there, but genrerally in Florida caves diveers use steel tanks, but that's beside the point here, you should still use DIN valves and regs when diving overhead and not yoke. I have even heard of divers that spearfish using DIN regs cuz its a more secure connection when they are wrestling a fish out from under a coral ledge.

[OneBrightGator]

I have a wing that I'm not using laying around, PM me if you're interested. Although, you should look ahead and buy for the future. If you plan on using both alum and steel doubles I would buy an appropriately sized doubles wing, such as a DR Classic or H Explorer, they will have excess lift for alum, but will work and then a singles wing later when you see that a bp/wings are much better than a traditional BC (if you e-bayed your BD you could get a singles wing with no skin off your back).

Ben

[8buck]

I tried the link thing could not figure so i am sorry to everyone who had to skim down the whole florida al double thing is blown out of wack......





c_a_otoole A good way to try out various tank set ups be... 08-11-2003 12:17 PM


c_a_otoole
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Registered: Jul 2003
Guam/Colorado
Posts: 1
A good way to try out various tank set ups be...
A good way to try out various tank set ups before commiting to either AL80s PST tanks ect is to set up your BC and then rent the tanks and go with indapendent (no manafold) doubles. It can be a pain in the ass switching every 5mins/500 PSI or whatever you decide, but it does give you a chance to feel what it is like to dive the various types of tanks. This is also a option for people that are renting tanks.
That being said after about two dives of doing this you will invest in the manafold and never look back. Just my two cents, because I have been diving indapendent doubles because I am only going to be here in Guam for another few weeks and I cant justify buying more tanks.

Chris


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08-11-2003 12:17 PM




Don Burke AL doubles. 08-11-2003 08:29 PM


Don Burke
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Registered: May 2003
Chesapeake, Virginia
Posts: 438
AL doubles.
If you're wearing a wetsuit, standard AL doubles are the way to go. You're going to need that buoyancy on a BC failure. Steel tanks are actually lighter on the boat, but don't give enough ditchable weight. Neutral 80s are even heavier than standard 80s and give about the same ditchable weight as steel. The only use I'd have for a Neutral 80 would be singles diving and I have steel tanks that work much better for that.

My first time in the water with doubles was also my first time with harness/backplate/wing system. I just went ahead and took the plunge with the manifold and bands. It was quite a leap of faith, although I expected to at least end up with a set of tanks for digging on shallow wrecks. It turned out I like doubles better than singles and I bought a couple of sets of steel 72s for the drysuit.

I'm way the heck over here in Chesapeake, Virginia (near Norfolk) or I'd offer to loan you a set of doubles so you could try them out. Perhaps you can find someone nearby to loan you a set for a "fly before buy".

Watch your weight distribution (ditchable vs non-ditchable) and don't start thinking you have infinite backgas and you'll be fine.



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08-11-2003 08:29 PM




scubatexastony That's strange..... 08-13-2003 10:15 PM


scubatexastony
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Registered: Aug 2001
N.E.TX aka, the piney woods(home) work in Houston
Posts: 676
That's strange.....

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ElectricZombie once bubbled...


With doubles you will need two 1st stages, two 2nd stages, one pressure gague and one inflator hose.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Mine seem to work fine with one 1st.....go figure!




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08-13-2003 10:15 PM




FIXXERVI6 how?Do you not have an isolator valve?... 08-13-2003 11:19 PM


FIXXERVI6
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Registered: Sep 2002
Dallas, TX
Posts: 94
how?Do you not have an isolator valve?...
how?

Do you not have an isolator valve?



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08-13-2003 11:19 PM




scubatexastony Correct... 08-13-2003 11:25 PM


scubatexastony
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Registered: Aug 2001
N.E.TX aka, the piney woods(home) work in Houston
Posts: 676
Correct...
old scubapro manifold....2250/72s

tony


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08-13-2003 11:25 PM




FIXXERVI6 isn't it kind of bad not to have an iso ?... 08-13-2003 11:49 PM


FIXXERVI6
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Registered: Sep 2002
Dallas, TX
Posts: 94
isn't it kind of bad not to have an iso ?...
isn't it kind of bad not to have an iso ?



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08-13-2003 11:49 PM




Don Burke isolator 08-14-2003 01:04 AM


Don Burke
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Registered: May 2003
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Posts: 438
isolator
If you are treating the doubles as a big single, the isolator isn't an issue.

If you are not in a situation that calls for full redundancy in regulators, the use of just one first stage is not a problem.

Much of my diving with double 72s is so I can stay with the guys diving 131 singles. They manage to make do with one first stage.

Once I'm in an overhead environment (real or virtual), all the pieces and parts become necessary. It's easier for me to have all of my doubles set up to support overhead environments. Three sets is all I really want to maintain.

Small doubles with isolation manifolds also keep me out of the Y-valve and H-valve business, so I think it's cheaper in the long run.



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08-14-2003 01:04 AM




ew1usnr Double aluminum 100's 08-14-2003 10:11 AM


ew1usnr
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Registered: Jan 2003

Posts: 304
Double aluminum 100's
I've been cave diving for about the last 15-years with twin aluminum 100's. The GUE DIR people will say that this is wrong because the aluminum tanks get bouyant, but I've never had a problem. I dive in fresh water with a wet suit and sink like a rock when the tanks are full. The bouyancy doesn't become an issue untill the psi drops to below 500. But by the rule of thirds, I always exit with about 1000 psi. I like the aluminum tanks because, from my experience, they are much more maintenance free then steel tanks. The dive shops seemed to want me to tumble my steel tanks (when I had steel tanks) every time they needed a VIP. I've never been asked to tumble an aluminum tank.



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08-14-2003 10:11 AM




Don Burke Aluminum tanks with a wetsuit 08-14-2003 10:40 AM


Don Burke
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Aluminum tanks with a wetsuit
Actually, the GUE people I have talked to are of the opinion that aluminum is the best way to go with doubles and a wetsuit.

My personal experience is that a safe application of steel doubles with a wetsuit would be the exception rather than the rule.



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08-14-2003 10:40 AM




ew1usnr Aluminum 100's 08-15-2003 09:51 AM


ew1usnr
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Aluminum 100's
Don! I stand corrected. I based my remark on something I read on a GUE site that said that (paraphrased) "a diver should have enough weight to still stay under even with his tanks empty". To me, that does not necessarily make sense on several fronts. For a long time steel tanks (104's) were regarded as the standard for cave divers because they held a larger air volume and were not as bouyant when empty. My brother and I were the exception with our aluminum 100's. Maybe as time has passed some people (though not all) have realized that the bouyancy issue was not so much a problem, and that a little less negativity might be a bit of an asset. Some of those steel tanks were so heavy that if a diver tore his BC he would literally have to walk out of a cave. That was when they started using backup BC's. Even if the BC doesn't blow, it has to be kept partially inflated to offset the weight of the steel tanks, thus creating extra frontal area and drag. The aluminum tanks are roughly neutral for much of the dive so the BC is not such a critical safety issue. Maybe my brother and I were "ahead of the curve" on this one.



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08-15-2003 09:51 AM




FIXXERVI6 ok, so double neutrals are a bad idea then be... 08-15-2003 11:19 AM


FIXXERVI6
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Registered: Sep 2002
Dallas, TX
Posts: 94
ok, so double neutrals are a bad idea then be...
ok, so double neutrals are a bad idea then because of the bouancy issue? I mean, if I have no wet suit on, I 'd have 0 ditchable weight.



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08-15-2003 11:19 AM




ew1usnr Neutral Bouyancy Is Good! 08-15-2003 11:32 AM


ew1usnr
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Registered: Jan 2003

Posts: 304
Neutral Bouyancy Is Good!
That's what you want! If your equipment selection lets you reach it by adding minimal air to your BC or minimal weight to your belt, you are doing great.



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08-15-2003 11:32 AM




Don Burke ditchable weight 08-15-2003 11:59 AM


Don Burke
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Registered: May 2003
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Posts: 438
ditchable weight
You need enough ditchable weight to solve the following problems:

1. You roll off the boat and snag your inflator hose on something, ripping it to shreds. How much weight do you need to ditch to stay on the surface?

2. You get problem one straightened out and try the dive again. Upon reaching the bottom, you snag your inflator hose on something, ripping it to shreds. How much weight do you need to ditch to get to the surface?

If the number is zero, you don't need any ditchable weight. That can be the case with a single tank and no neoprene.

With the gas in my 80s and wetsuit compression, I need about 9 pounds for problem 1 and about 20 pounds for problem 2, so 20 pounds it is. I prefer not to rely on being able to swim any weight up.

With my wetsuit, standard 80s and a steel backplate, I need about 24 pounds of weight to be neutral, so I have enough.

If I went to neutral 80s, I would have to take 8 pounds off the belt, leaving 16. That means I would be four pounds short. I can swim it up, or switch to an aluminum backplate to put five pounds onto the belt. I don't need an aluminum plate for anything else.

Since I don't need neutral 80s for anything else, I stay with the standard 80s. If I decide to give up wetsuit diving, the standard 80s make better stage/deco bottles.



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08-15-2003 11:59 AM




Don Burke ditchable weight 08-15-2003 12:06 PM


Don Burke
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Registered: May 2003
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ditchable weight
Those 80s hold about 12 pounds of air, about 10 of that is extra weight at the begiinning of the dive.

If you can deal with a wing failure with no ditchable weight, you don't need any ditchable weight.




anyways this is last of this...
i am going to do what feel safe for ME with all the input from everyone else to use to tweak and find the best suited for me. thanks again everyone

[OneBrightGator]

I forgot about your comment of not needing DIN valves, they aren't just for tech divers anymore! Seriously though, I have DIN on all my tanks, singles, doubles, steel and alum, they are much more secure, lower profile and with a $30 adapter I can dive any tanks anyday, plus any type of "advanced" diving (doubles, caves, deep, wreck) will be centered around DIN, so you might as well do it right the first time.

Ben

[8buck]

I never said i will not need them. I know i will sooner or later.. But I have not needed them yet. We all know our equimpment is costly so one at a time lol... and at this time my tanks and my valves will work with a bp/w. And then the next up grade will be DIN. As my classes and scuba evolves so will my equimpment. I am not the kinda of guy who goes out and buys what I do not need. I know I will need them but right now no. Unless I get a really good deal lol!!!!!!!

hey who is up for a dive soon

mine was BLOWN away by like 35 to 40 mph winds in hollywood two weeks ago....

[Wendy]

I'm a little confused having to weed through those other posts....what exactly is your point or arguement you have here? How many of those people posting in that other thread dive overhead, and the only reason that I brought diving overhead up is because of conversations that me and you have had in the past and you expressed and interest in pursueing that type of diving. I just made suggestions on gear for you cuz I know what type of diving you are looking at doing and what you do currently. I'm just trying to help you out, not make this the great debate its becoming.

[OneBrightGator]

8buck once bubbled...
I never said i will not need them. I know i will sooner or later.. But I have not needed them yet. We all know our equimpment is costly so one at a time lol... and at this time my tanks and my valves will work with a bp/w. And then the next up grade will be DIN. As my classes and scuba evolves so will my equimpment. I am not the kinda of guy who goes out and buys what I do not need. I know I will need them but right now no. Unless I get a really good deal lol!!!!!!!

One thing I'm stuck on... do you have a yoke manifold? because if you're going to double up some 80s you are going to need a manifold (going inde is not the greatest idea) and all the manifolds nowadays come either DIN or DIN with yoke inserts.

Ben

[SeaJay]

:) Hey, dude... I'm coming into this conversation a bit late... I just noticed it.

I'm a bit confused with all of the previous thread stuff... Looks like you're looking for a bp/wing, though... I've got some suggestions, if you're interested in hearing them.

Is this going to be a doubles rig? Single? Both? You divin' freshwater, salt, or both? Wet or dry?

I've got a few hundred dives on my bp/wing setup... Dunno if I can be of any help, but if you can clarify your question, I'll pitch in whatever answers I've got. :)

[8buck]

# 1 wendy I started this post looking for bp/w. You started the whole cave crap not me and if you read the others post PEOPLE DO DIVE AL IN CAVES IN FL so but anyways i am tired of debating on what you do or would do. I am going to get me a bp/w what ever the setup prefer double and I will be happy. I will make just about anything work...

Sea jay--
Have no questions I know what i want. some people has a way of turning things around. But I started this thread lQQking to see if anyone had a bp/w collecting dust.....

[Doc Intrepid]

Brandon or 8Buck or whatever,

1. If you learn how to use the board, you won't post monster posts when it isn't needed.

2. No one needs your attitude. You asked a question about bp/wings with the concept of using them in the future for cavern/cave. Double aluminum 80s can be used in caves in Florida. Go for it. Wendy said they are not the tanks of choice. They aren't. Deal with it. If you want to head into a cave in Florida wearing non-optimal gear, its only your own ignorance that will be on display as you enter the cave. You're obviously clueless and determined, so do whatever you already want to do.

3. You're being deliberately rude to people who were trying to assist you. Grow up.

Doc

[Wendy]

8buck once bubbled...
# 1 wendy I started this post looking for bp/w. You started the whole cave crap not me and if you read the others post PEOPLE DO DIVE AL IN CAVES IN FL so but anyways i am tired of debating on what you do or would do. I am going to get me a bp/w what ever the setup prefer double and I will be happy. I will make just about anything work...


I brought up the "cave crap" because you have told me several times in conversations that this is the direction that you are looking at taking and I wanted to help you find gear that would work well for both your ow diving and your future overhead diving, so that way you won't end up needing to replace gear in the future when advcance in your dive training. If you can't see that I was trying to help you out, then I am sorry.

[Wendy]

8buck once bubbled...
[BHave no questions I know what i want. some people has a way of turning things around. But I started this thread lQQking to see if anyone had a bp/w collecting dust..... [/B]

I hope you find what you are looking for.

[SeaJay]

8buck once bubbled...

Sea jay--
Have no questions I know what i want. some people has a way of turning things around. But I started this thread lQQking to see if anyone had a bp/w collecting dust.....


Ah, cool man. Noise ratio high... Glad I asked. I'd have ticked you off with suggestions when all you're looking for is a good deal. :)

This deal that someone pointed out above is just about to kill me... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3634230964 If you don't snag that in the next 40 minutes, I'm gonna. :)

...But since you're asking specifically for used gear... And since you're talking about an AL plate, that's probably not what you had in mind. Perhaps this is more what you had in mind:

Go to our club website at http://www.DeepSouthDivers.org and click on "Talk" then "Equipment" and finally, "Stores." The first four listings there are places where you can buy/sell/trade used gear. In fact, the first listing is a place that's super-active. I see plates traded cheap there all the time.

Hope that helps...

<Ducks and runs in a zigzag pattern away from the flames.>

[pdoege]

I've been buying my BPs and wings on the cheap for a while now.

Here is my general approach.

1) Find the actual cheapest retail price of the equipment that you are looking for. This will probably be through Leisure Pro or some other online discounter. This gives you the price that you need to beat to save money. Remember to add in shipping and whatnot.
1a) If you know someone in the industry, see if you can find out the actual wholesale of the equipment. It is really important to know the actual cost of the gear.
1b)Use the above info to arrive at some amount that you are willing to pay for used gear. You are going to look for prices that are around 75% of this value. This gives you the ability to haggle a bit.
2) Hang out around the various tech and cave boards. They shed equipment like it is nobody's business. If someone posts gear that you want that is close to your price, buy it, otherwise make an offer.
3) Occasionally send email to the actual manufacturer of the gear asking if they have any used, abused, or not-perfect gear for sale. If it is a good discount off of wholesale, buy it.
4) Drop by local tech shops and clubs and let them know that you are looking. Let them know that you know the actual value. I scored a really nice Halcyon SS BP this way.
5) Perform the rigging and whatnot yourself. You can buy bulk webbing and SS rings, etc. from bulk discounters for really cheap. No reason to spend real money on a harness or etc.
6) Don't be too aggressive with your haggling. Leave them smiling. Who knows, they may call you back.

I've assembled a nice BP/Wing rig (SS BP, Pioneer wing, harness, crotch strap, all rings and tubing) for < $200. Not too shabby. It did take some snooping. My doubles setup cost me around $1100 with tanks, regs, wing, bp, and accessories.

One more thing, the markup on this gear runs between 200 and 300 percent. The wholesale cost is somewhere between 1/2 and 1/3 of the MSRP. This varies, but that is the rule of thumb that I use.

One more one more thing. You are buying used gear that is out of warranty. Be sure that you are comfortable fixing and maintaining it or know someone who will fix it for a reasonable cost. If you buy something that needs a lot of work, you really aren't saving money.

Well, I'm sure that someone will find problems with my approach. It works for me.

Peter

[OneBrightGator]

8buck once bubbled...
# 1 wendy I started this post looking for bp/w. You started the whole cave crap not me and if you read the others post PEOPLE DO DIVE AL IN CAVES IN FL so but anyways i am tired of debating on what you do or would do. I am going to get me a bp/w what ever the setup prefer double and I will be happy. I will make just about anything work...

hey man... we're just trying to help, a bp/wings that isn't really what you'll need isn't a deal at any cost, chances are our advice is from personal experience and a couple bad purchases we regret.

Ben

[OneBrightGator]

Peter,

I have no problem with your method, to each his own. However, I would like to know where you're getting your retail vs. wholesale costs, because most technical equipment is not marked up even 100%, let alone 200 or 300.

Ben

[pdoege]

Well, more correct than I was.

Subtract 100% or so from those markup values. What was I thinking?

Peter

[8buck]

Brandon or 8Buck or whatever,

1. If you learn how to use the board, you won't post monster posts when it isn't needed.

2. No one needs your attitude. You asked a question about bp/wings with the concept of using them in the future for cavern/cave. Double aluminum 80s can be used in caves in Florida. Go for it. Wendy said they are not the tanks of choice. They aren't. Deal with it. If you want to head into a cave in Florida wearing non-optimal gear, its only your own ignorance that will be on display as you enter the cave. You're obviously clueless and determined, so do whatever you already want to do.

3. You're being deliberately rude to people who were trying to assist you. Grow up.

Doc


#1 I know what i need and what i want...

and me not knowing how to do the link thing does not make me stupid it just means i have better things to do than sit on here all day.. Futhermore I have never used it nor have i thought about it.

And I am not being an azz. All I wanted to know is if Anyone had a bp/w they wanted to get rid of

not valves or anything else

if they did I am old enough to know to ask before jumping. i am not going to buy something i can not use down the road.

I know I am going to need dins maybe, maybe not but for now what does the din valve and bp/w have in common. I dove bp/w without them before...

sorry if i sounded as if i was being an ass. I have met a number of great divers on here and plan on meeting them and diving with them..

So if i hurt anyones feeling I AM SO VERY SORRY...