making jump to DSLR

[Scotttyd]

I have been using a nikon p5100 point and shoot (with full manual controls) for several years and have decided to make the jump to DSLR. My question is, where do I get started?

What characteristics should I look for in choosing a DSLR? A quick look at best buy and prices range all of the place from 500-1300. What are the differences that really matter? Also, a quick tutorial on what a lense number means? ex. 17-85 mm. 55-200 etc. What type of lense would you use for underwater (obviously a macro and/or wide angle lense I assume??)

I have used wet lens's currently (two stacked macro or a wide angle). Is there a good "general purpose/flexible lens to start out with, or do you generally have 1 for macro, 1 for "regular", and 1 for wide angle?


Also, I have a inonz-240 strobe which I assume I can sync with just about any DSLR camera (depending on housing) to use TTYL. I have always used ikelite housings. Not that I am against any of the others, just what I have used for P&S. On their website the hosuing comes without a port it looks like? How do you go about choosing a port, etc? Is it based on what type of lens you are using?

Thanks in advance for the "newbie" question!

[Sully3]

I went from point and shoot to the canon 7d. its an awesome camera and is easy to use. obviously it takes some getting used to but that is part of the fun. I really only shoot macro since i havent spent a great deal of time in wide angle destinations and i use the canon 60mm macro and canon 100mm macro. For a general use lens you could look at someting like the 35 (i think)-85mm zoom which gets you in pretty close but isn't a true macro and can also be used for wider shots. The port you choose is based of what lenses you are going to be using so i would choose lens first then choose port based on taht. hope that helped a little, have fun!

[Doubler]

I agree with Sully except I went with the T2i which is basically 7d in a plastic body. Same great features, much cheaper price.

[deeper thoughts]

Those Canons are great cameras!!

[Scotttyd]

So what is the difference between a 7d and t2i? If it is just the plastic body - I find that hard to believe that makes the difference in price. I assume there are some features that the 7d has, or size of sensor, etc.

[beautybelow]

I agree with Sully except I went with the T2i which is basically 7d in a plastic body. Same great features, much cheaper price.

This is true in many aspects and probably in all aspects that you would take into consideration on purchasing a camera only for fun, underwater use replacing a point and shoot with a DSLR.

But...the 7d has 19 focus points compared to the 9 on the T2i, All 19 are cross type focus points as opposed to the 1 cross type on the T2i, twice the max shutter speed (1/8000 vs 1/4000), almost twice the battery life, %100 viewfinder coverage (about %30 more than the T2i), and shoots way faster at 8fps vs 3.7fps.

All of these "little things" add up if you are investing in a camera for long term use and plan on growing in your range of photographic skills and make the cost of the camera difference worth it in my opinion.

The T2i is a great entry level camera. The 7D is a camera you can enter with and it will carry you through a few more phases. You may never want to go through those phases though, but think about it.

How long do you want the camera to give you good service? How "hard" are you going to use it?

The Z240 strobe by the way is great...see if you can pick up another one!

[PatW]

For DSLR work, you will want at least 2 lenses. You will want a Macro lens. The 60 mm lens seems to be the most popular. The other thing you will want is a wide angle zoom. If you want to take shots of your diving buddies, turtles, large fish, and so on, you will want to get close because the closer the better the photos. That requires wide angle. There are a number of zooms out there. The Tokina 10-17 seems to be the most popular. At the wide end, it allows a fish eye (which is not critical for me). The other thing that is really nice with this lens is that it allows very close focus of something like an inch.

I would suggest using 2 strobes. One strobe will throw distracting shadows behind your subject. Two strobes fired from different angles will negate most of that effect. I have also noticed that backscatter seems to be much reduced by using two strobes.

I have found 2 online retailers who specialize in underwater photography: Backscatter and Reef Photo (in Fort Lauderdale). You might try looking at their sites, they have background information on cameras, housings, and so on.

[Larry C]

The price point of the camera may not be the biggest consideration. The difference between a mid-level like the T2i or D7000 and a pro-sumer model like the 7D or the D300s is several hundred dollars. The difference in housing prices can be a couple of thousand.
If you can go to one of the UW photo stores (maybe Reef in Florida or Backscatter East in New England if you're going to be near there) you can hold the housings, compare pricing, weight, etc.
A big consideration will be how you plan to fire your strobe. Some housings are not equipped for optical strobe firing, which allows direct communication with the strobe for ttl metering. If you choose a housing that only allows a wired strobe connection, you'll probably need a ttl unit that is compatible with both your camera and your strobe.
I'd recommend buying either a body only, or a kit that comes with the one lens you want to use topside, because underwater lenses tend to be specialized. General purpose zoom lenses don't take great uw photos. You need close focus, compact size and compatibility with available ports.
For underwater, if you go with Canon, you'll probably want either a a 60mm or 100mm macro and a fisheye from either Canon or Tokina.

[bvanant]

For me the biggest difference between the 7D/60D and the Rebel/Kiss cameras is the one vs. two control wheels. The 7D/60D have two control wheels so in manual mode (which you WILL use) you can control both independently and simply, while the T2/T3 have only a single wheel so you need to do a bunch of button pushes to get to the correct screen. Underwater that means (potentially) missed shots.
Both are great cameras with good IQ and you will not go wrong with either.
Keep teh Z240 and get another one
Bill

[Mark Derail]

I'm quite happy with the results of my Nikon D90, the only upgrade to it that I would consider is the D7000.

If I were starting from scratch - I'd research the used market first. Lenses make the photo, not the sensor, anything above the manufactured date of Jan 1st 2008 will have an excellent sensor on any dSLR.

Also the chance of getting a housing is better / easier / cheaper.

Remember the strobes, two are better, with the arms and housing, these items can easily cost 2x the price of the camera itself.

The price/point barrier for best-bang-for-the-buck for UW dSLR is with Canon T2i, since the T3 will fit in the same housing, so you have a bit of future there. (This info purely based on other posts of other members here on ScubaBoard, not personal experience)

IOW, skimp on the camera, not the stobes, arms, housing & lens.

[beautybelow]

"For me the biggest difference between the 7D/60D and the Rebel/Kiss cameras is the one vs. two control wheels."

Now that you mention it...that would be the biggest difference for me too. Good point.

[decidedlyodd]

I have a T2i in the Nauticam housing. One big advantage of that housing is that the controls on the housing work around the single control dial quite well. There's a toggle switch next to the shutter lever and the control dial knob that will toggle between shutter speed and aperture in manual mode. Flipping it with my thumb is really easy. Probably just as easy as dealing with two separate knobs. Overall, the aluminum housings tend to have better ergonomics than the Ikelite housings but they also cost a lot more too.

I've been really happy with this setup. With either the Aquatica or Nauticam housing, you're looking at one of the most compact DSLR setups around. Handy for travel and just shlepping around locally too. The sensor in the T2i, 60D, 7D and (I think) T3i is pretty much identical which means image quality is the same between them. The major difference is features--things like more dedicated knobs, dedicated video buttons, additional control dials and improved focus systems.

I seriously considered the 7D, but the price difference after everything was said and done was going to be quite a lot. About $1000 between the cameras, $700 between the housings, plus some other incidentals like buying compact flash memory cards added up to about a $2K difference for me. Image quality and feature-wise, the 5DII was also an option but the costs for going down that road were even larger. I didn't really look at the 60D for whatever reason, but I think there are more housings available for it now than when I was looking earlier this year.

[deeper thoughts]

I'm quite happy with the results of my Nikon D90, the only upgrade to it that I would consider is the D7000.

If I were starting from scratch - I'd research the used market first. Lenses make the photo, not the sensor, anything above the manufactured date of Jan 1st 2008 will have an excellent sensor on any dSLR.

Also the chance of getting a housing is better / easier / cheaper.

Remember the strobes, two are better, with the arms and housing, these items can easily cost 2x the price of the camera itself.

The price/point barrier for best-bang-for-the-buck for UW dSLR is with Canon T2i, since the T3 will fit in the same housing, so you have a bit of future there. (This info purely based on other posts of other members here on ScubaBoard, not personal experience)

IOW, skimp on the camera, not the stobes, arms, housing & lens.

Thnx for this info. Why would you not consider the d300?

[Mark Derail]

Thnx for this info. Why would you not consider the d300?

The price differences on the housing between the D300 & D7000 is negligible. So for UW use, both will cost the same to take true dSLR pics & videos UW.

So why bother saving 300-400$ on the camera itself? Lenses are the same, but you'll get a faster everything.
Jumping to Canon, the housing prices + cam prices make it an excellent choice for UW, and "decent" for land.

For purely land-use, since I do pro-level work, I won't bother with the D300, will wait for the next price drop on the D7000. To me, the D300 == D90 except for a newer sensor, newer firmware. Not enough to entice me to switch.

I'll buy a Tokina 10-16 lens before I consider upgrading the D90.
Except for Point & Shoots that I've bought new, for portability and video, all my pro-level equipment is mostly second-hand.

If I had zero pro-level equipment - and starting dSLR - I would go used. For a simple reason, used doesn't lose much value in resell, cheaper to buy.

Why "make the jump" at all? dSLR offers few advantages to a good 4/3 or Sony NEX setup. Housings will be cheaper, and on land you'll take better candid shots, and won't have 20 lbs on a strap over your shoulders.

You just have to understand what you gain with dSLR - a viewfinder. Longer battery life, IMO.

All the 4/3's and the Sony NEX that I've looked at, all can do manual focus, you can easily set Aperture Priority to benefit from a reduced focus-zone or to improve your ISO, just like any dSLR.

My next camera purchase will be the newer model of the Sony NEX5, which has the same sensor as the D7000, for my GF to use, it is "purse friendly".
Plus, UW housings are now available, and will continue to be for at least a year or two. With support for the tilt-up viewscreen.

Another thing going for mirror-less cameras, the lens is closer to the sensor, so the lens-to-sensor ratio is different, IMO this is a positive.

[beautybelow]

"If I had zero pro-level equipment - and starting dSLR - I would go used. For a simple reason, used doesn't lose much value in resell, cheaper to buy."

Although I have nothing against buying used equipment, this all depends on how "used" it really is.

And, like you noted, especially in the upper level cameras...they usually seem pretty proud of what they have when it comes to putting a value on a piece of used camera equipment.

While shopping for a 5D mark II right now I find that the security I would get with a new body would outweigh the "I don't know how this thing was really treated" I would get with buying a used body.

For instance, I have a 40D with an over 50,000 shutter count. I am already experiencing lag every once in a while in the shutter and the shutter release button is sometimes fickle.

If you looked at the housing you wouldn't know this, I could sell it on ebay and the buyer may never even know the problems exist because they may never use the camera like I do. I just sold the underwater housing for this camera and didn't include the body because I knew it was getting weak.

Canon says this camera should do 150,000 shutter counts. Maybe they should have given one to me for testing.

[Mark Derail]

The store I buy used housings from, Camera Simon in Montreal (over 30+ years in business) divulge the count.

Sometimes they have the very same housing for sale at two different prices. To me, it's like the mileage on a car.

If you buy a brand new 5D Mark II and resell it used after only a month, you'll take a huge hit. Do the same with a used, you will lose, but not as much.
Especially when you "Trade Up".

Camera Simon will gladly take your money more than once, and "help" you on your upgrade path :) to pro-level.

[bvanant]

While lenses remain an important component of getting good pics, the sensor is important as well. In the old film days, a body was only a film holder and the lens made the picture. In modern days the sensor is not only the film but the processor as well and there are very easily measured and observed differences between sensors. If you don't believe that take a look at DXO labs results you will see quite a bit of difference in quality for the same size sensors and I am not sure I understand the magic of January 2008.

Bill

[Mark Derail]

Just about all cameras produced after 2008 will be at least 8MP or better, and have decent ISO for low-light conditions.

Just a note for used dSLR cameras.


While lenses remain an important component of getting good pics, the sensor is important as well. In the old film days, a body was only a film holder and the lens made the picture. In modern days the sensor is not only the film but the processor as well and there are very easily measured and observed differences between sensors. If you don't believe that take a look at DXO labs results you will see quite a bit of difference in quality for the same size sensors and I am not sure I understand the magic of January 2008.

Bill