Other Divers "Unsure" about the Sidemount setup - How do I present it?

Finally caught up with my instructor for a debrief of our wreck dives.

It turns out the other divers . . . (I think, including my instructor) . . . are very unsure / don't trust / the deployment of the hoses.

Background - I'm 5'4 and slender -- the triangle of my torso is small, and there is a LOT of 'stuff' there.


Although I explained the procedure for donation - if you ask, I will hand you the right reg, whether it is in my mouth or clipped off. If you need air, just grab what's in my mouth and I will ask you to swap.

Still, they were unsure of the bungee'd backup (fisherman's knot around the mouthpiece, it will come out with a sharp tug), and if I was a . . . ? reliable? gas donor in an emergency. In my instructor's words, "The hoses don't work."

My instructor is not comfortable with hanging my right tank off the boat. I'm not sure why, but he thinks it would be better for the crew to hand down the steel 100.
I'm thinking I could possibly drop it, a very bad thing. I also think, why should I clog up the back of the boat, with the platform rising and dropping, when I could drop a few feet under, pull the tank up to me, get my hand through the chest clip loop for security, unclip the rope, and clip off. I'm not in anyone's way, and if there is a current, I could grab the rope.

He wants me to come up with an alternative way, especially to deal with rougher seas and current. I said I would do so, but understand I would probably call the dive under rough seas. While I have had someone carry my right tank with the chest cord clipped in - hey, it's an alternate - I really do not want to do that under rough seas and uncertain footing, for my own personal welfare.

I explained to him that in the sidemount community, and those that dive with them, they are perfectly aware of the sidemount reg switching and if they needed gas, they'd grab one. I pointed out that if someone does take my bungeed reg out of my mouth, I'd just unclip the primary, take a breath, and offer the swap.

I still practice the clip and unclip primary if I'm on the bungeed backup . . . maybe he just hasn't noticed?

I don't know what else I could do - I have the Heinrith Sidemount book, but there isn't enough there to address procedures.

Help! I did tell him if we dived the Oriskany, I'd get Rob down there for a day or two . . .

Can you talk any of these people into doing a lake or pool dive with you, and practicing these procedures with a mixed team? I think nothing convinces people like seeing that something works.

Did you show up for a course with an instructor that does not dive sidemount in a sidemount rig? I thought I would ask that out loud to see if you think it makes sense.

I have found that when being instructed it is best to look like the instructor. That is how I got the long hose, turns out I like it. Anyway, sidemount being the new thing in town it may or may not ever be mainstream and enjoy universal acceptance. Any chance you can find an instructor who dives sidemount for the courses you are seeking? That would avoid a lot of drama IMHO. Diving a mixed team for fun is between you and the other members of the team, you are going to have to convince them or get new team members.
Eric

UTD Equipment - Z-Side-Mount System - +1 206 321-0870 or sales@utdequipment.com

I've been in Chuuk Lagoon wreck diving for the past week with the Z-sidemount system; the long hose always stays in your mouth with the bungee'd backup always on standby around your neck per Hogarthian/DIR Practice --all possible because of the Z-manifold. The system is not any more complicated nor "prone" to failure than even a conventional isolation backmount manifold as some detractors would contend. . .

A Razor 2 diver I'm buddied with here in Chuuk has acknowledged the advantages of the Z-system above, and concedes that this is the best all-around open water wreck & cave diving kit set-up solution out on the market now. . .

Side mount diving was not designed for the open water. So, these are some real concerns that not been fully developed and largely, side mount diving and training is still young. Side mount does have some limited merits in open water, but I personally feel that many are simply over-complicating their diving in an effort to look cool.

So, my first question is, what does side mount diving solve or provide for you? It also sounds from your post that no one else was diving side mount or had experience with the system which could create an unsafe situation in your team.

Confucious say "Only person who likes change is a wet baby"

Cheers
Michael

SeaCobra:

Side mount diving was not designed for the open water. So, these are some real concerns that not been fully developed and largely, side mount diving and training is still young. Side mount does have some limited merits in open water, but I personally feel that many are simply over-complicating their diving in an effort to look cool.

So, my first question is, what does side mount diving solve or provide for you? It also sounds from your post that no one else was diving side mount or had experience with the system which could create an unsafe situation in your team.

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Like anything new and novel, you adapt & accommodate; spend time on the learning curve with a lot of trial & error. If I see an objective solution that's potentially viable to my diving interests (tropical Pacific WWII Wrecks), then I'll do my best to utilize it --I don't care whether y'all think it's cool or not, got that??? I'm here & doin' it on the Chuuk Lagoon Wrecks right now & you're not. . .

Some advantages of open water double tank tech Z-sidemount diving:
Only relying on the overseas Dive-Ops to have single standard AL80's support, not requiring you to travel with conventional backmount bands & isolation manifold anymore; accessibility to tight restrictions, cargo holds, crew quarters, gun/fighting stations, engine spaces etc --where conventional backmount configurations cannot fit or get "keyholed"; can have deco bottles clipped/distributed to both left & right sides for easier and better trim & balance. . .

Disadvantages:
Difficulty as noted above in getting in & out of the water --clipping & unclipping tanks on the surface (especially when in rough sea conditions); more frequent on-the-fly gas consumption monitoring and tank switching task loading especially on deep technical penetration dives over 45m depth.

Jax ... didn't you take your sidemount class from Rob? I thought that you had.

If so, who is this instructor you're talking about? And what is he instructing?

People who haven't been exposed to sidemount are going to have some resistance to it ... I experienced that with the crew of the Peace, when I was in the Channel Islands ... and those are some very professional, generally accepting people. It's just not something they are exposed to, or understand ... and there's going to be some credibility that you need to establish if you're going to dive with them. That's your job.

I'm assuming (since I believe you learned SM from Rob) that your long hose is on a breakaway. You may just have to demonstrate to them that if needed, it will break away ... and then replace the o-ring. I use a breakaway clip that a friend designed. I like it for mixed teams ... partly because it doesn't rely on having to "break" something to donate, and partly because it looks more like an octopus holder ... something they're already familiar with ... and especially because it's red ...



For mixed teams, you need to educate your team on how your system works ... that involves demonstrations. And in some cases there are people who will not be open anything that they haven't been taught to use. You're just going to have to decide which is more important ... diving sidemount or diving with them ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

SeaCobra:

Side mount diving was not designed for the open water.

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... neither was a hogarthian rig ... or DIR ...

What a system is designed for isn't the same as what it is a good solution for.

I find sidemount to be an optimal solution for many of the dives I do in open water ... particularly for long, deep solo dives. It's a better solution for my photography than slinging a pony for redundant air, because it allows me to get closer to the bottom (and therefore the subject) without the pony tank valve and first stage clunking into the bottom. It's a better solution for trim and buoyancy because of where it puts my CoG ... allowing me to more easily get into optimal positions for shots that I otherwise would have to put more effort to get into wearing a set of manifolded doubles, or a single rig and slung pony.

But the best reason of all ... I feel more comfortable and "natural" underwater in a sidemount rig than in a backmount rig ... irrespective of the environment or type of dive I'm doing.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

OMG, I love this community!!!!!

TSandM immediately chimes in with a workable way ahead - as always!


Then there's the "what are you doing out of 'uniform'? " answer . .

Followed by "use this equipment / gadget . . ."


and the "You're doing it wrong" rejoinder with the "justify why you chose to do what you're doing"

and then a defense of the OP in "do what you gotta do for you" . . .

and Lastly, Bob trying to understand the whole situation as well as offering some good advice! :cool3:


So, here we go: I use sidemount because it is best for me in a doubles-required situation. Why, frankly, is no one's business. I am the only one in Arizona that uses sidemount, as far as I can tell. (I'm sure that's not true, but the reaction is such that the number must be very small.)

NWGratefulDiver:

Jax ... didn't you take your sidemount class from Rob? I thought that you had. Of course!

If so, who is this instructor you're talking about? And what is he instructing? Local instructor teaching advanced wreck penetration.

People who haven't been exposed to sidemount are going to have some resistance to it ... I experienced that with the crew of the Peace, when I was in the Channel Islands ... and those are some very professional, generally accepting people. It's just not something they are exposed to, or understand ... and there's going to be some credibility that you need to establish if you're going to dive with them. That's your job.

I think I have failed in my job, in all honesty. Which is why I am asking for advice.

I'm assuming (since I believe you learned SM from Rob) that your long hose is on a breakaway. You may just have to demonstrate to them that if needed, it will break away ... and then replace the o-ring. I use a breakaway clip that a friend designed. I like it for mixed teams ... partly because it doesn't rely on having to "break" something to donate, and partly because it looks more like an octopus holder ... something they're already familiar with ... and especially because it's red ...

Y'know, I never demonstrated that! That is a very good point. Also, what do you think of the idea of putting a yellow faceplate on my HOG primary reg? Would that be another 'comfort' point?

For mixed teams, you need to educate your team on how your system works ... that involves demonstrations. And in some cases there are people who will not be open anything that they haven't been taught to use. You're just going to have to decide which is more important ... diving sidemount or diving with them ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

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That team thing is the important part. There is no local place to have a dive, ergo, no practice with each other.

I also suspect I have failed to instill confidence in my instructor . . . Again, we don't dive together outside of class. If HE'S seeing "hoses all over the place" and "very busy in that torso area", I have to do a better job in . . . something. Since I can't (won't!) grow bigger . . .

Some of this is due to the base pool refurbishment . . . I haven't practiced skills in sidemount in a while, and I am rusty.