Points of failure

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Thanshin

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I'd be interested in knowing which are the consequences of some purely mechanical/material failures.

- LP hose-first stage connection: Air goes out of the tank quite fast and, after getting your buddy's reg you must close the tank valve to be able to see properly and calm down.
- HP hose-first stage connection: Same but... less air goes out? (high pressure, smaller aperture? I'm guessing here)
- First stage-tank connection: No idea. Can this even reasonably happen? Any difference between having a yoke or din open tank on your back?
- Second stage-hose: Would it be possible to stop the airflow without closing the tank valve in this case?
- SPG-hose: Would it be possible to stop the airflow without closing the tank valve in this case?
 
Funny you should post this, I was just thinking about it recently, in the context of how much time do you have at depth before the air supply is exhausted by various types of leaks. I am going to give a subjective 'guesstimate' response, and welcome correction from others with more objective data.
- LP hose-first stage connection: Air goes out of the tank quite fast and, after getting your buddy's reg you must close the tank valve to be able to see properly and calm down. If the air is coming out of the low pressure port, it should be coming out at intermediate pressure, i.e. ~140-145 PSI. That is still much higher than the ambient pressure of the surrounding water whether you are at 30 feet (~29 PSI) or 130 feet (~73 PSI). What I don't know is the maximum delivery rate through the port aperture. But, even with a full-blown failure, at the hose connection, you could still breath off the reg and make an ascent to the surface.
- HP hose-first stage connection: Same but... less air goes out? (high pressure, smaller aperture? I'm guessing here) The first stage HP port aperture is actually similar to, but a little larger than, the LP port (7/16" diameter for the HP, vs 3/8" for the LP). What is smaller is the aperture of the male HP hose connection. If you look at the male / first stage end of a HP hose, you will see a very small hole, that is the conduit for HP air to the SPG. If the failure is at the connection, you should have high pressure (tank pressure) air coming out of the port. I would presume the air loss would be greater with this failure than with a LP hose - first stage connection failure
- First stage-tank connection: No idea. Can this even reasonably happen? Any difference between having a yoke or din open tank on your back? Sure it can happen, if the O-ring fails / extrudes, or a yoke reg is 'bumped' out of position u/w. A primary advantage of a DIN connection over a yoke connection is that O-ring failure is very unlikely with DIN - much more likely with yoke. I have no idea how many times in 'real life' a catastrophic failure of the yoke O-ring actually occurs, although I have seen one u/w, and it is spectacular, but not life-threatening. You would still have time to surface from most recreational dives, unless you were already at 500 psi when it occurred - even then, an immediate ascent would be doable. Think about how long it takes to drain a tank on the surface, when you open the valve handle all the way. It doesn't happen in seconds, rather it takes minutes.
- Second stage-hose: Would it be possible to stop the airflow without closing the tank valve in this case? If the falure is at the point of connection between the hose and the second stage, I presume it would be possible to fold the hose over enough to crimp it and reduce the air flow, and you would then switch to your alternate reg (presuming it was your primary hose that failed. Either way, the maximum air loss would be similar to what would occur if the failure occurred at the hose connection with the first stage - intermediate pressure air escaping.
- SPG-hose: Would it be possible to stop the airflow without closing the tank valve in this case? Probably not.
 
Gas loss from a LP hose is much, much faster than from a HP hose.

Tests done on surface and at various depths are published... no need to guess :wink:

Bumped yoke first stage... happens. Happened to a student with a stage bottle at 65 metres... One reason why DIN is preferred.

One can, in an emergency, crimp a LP hose to stop flow.

HP hose leading to an SPG... the leaks I've seen are pretty slow. A sport diver with a single first stage unable to shut down could make a normal ascent with her buddy ready in case of an OOA situation. Lots of time if gas management guidelines were followed.
 
Most regulators and most SPG hoses have a very small pin hole sized orifice so that in the e ent of a high pressure hose failure it will take 20-25 minutes to drain a full AL 80 tank. When you depressurization your reg you'll note the needle drops slowly because of the small orifice and the time it takes the gas to come back out of the SPG and hose. Thus this kind of failure is a non emergency in recreational diving - just ascend normally.

Failed LP fittings are rare as are failed LP hoses. Both have the potential to lose gas rapidly, but the limiting factor is often the tank valve's maximum flow rate. Still, the tank can empty in only a minute or two. Kinking the hose may work, but the hose will also be whipping around so locating it could waste more time than you have so you are better of bailing out to a pony or team mates octo first then shutting down the tank valve.

Neck o-rings and burst discs can fail and gas loss can be rapid, so again bail out to a pony or buddy and start your ascent.

Contrary to popular belief, both yoke and DIN systems fully capture the o-ring with metal to metal connections when the reg and valve are correctly attached. However yoke valves offer more ways for things to be less than correctly attached and if a leak occurs due to extrusion due to a loose connection the o-ring is more likely to be lost, making resealing underwater less likely.
 
You missed the most catastrophic one! Don't manage to completely knock off the 1st stage (no idea how you'd do this), or you'll find out what an sdv feels like as you go rocketing through the water. Saw an episode of Mythbusters where they checked how powerful that was - the tank punched through a concrete wall.
 
You missed the most catastrophic one! Don't manage to completely knock off the 1st stage (no idea how you'd do this), or you'll find out what an sdv feels like as you go rocketing through the water. Saw an episode of Mythbusters where they checked how powerful that was - the tank punched through a concrete wall.

Yes, that's what I meant with:
- First stage-tank connection: No idea. Can this even reasonably happen? Any difference between having a yoke or din open tank on your back?

That's the reason of my asking whether having a yoke or din opening, directly spewing high pressure air to your neck made any difference.
 
I often dived around foreseeing until a ship fell on my head
 
Check your equipment. I have not personally seen a hose fail that was not bad and ignored.

Catastrophic failures usually happen right after the equipment is repaired, probably because the tech dosen't take it out for a test drive and find it first.


Bob
---------------------------------
I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.
 
See: Life Ending Seconds • ADVANCED DIVER MAGAZINE • By Curt Bowen

equipmentfailure.jpg

There have also been reports of the cylinder to valve O-ring extruding and the burst disk failing. If people make it, assume that it can/will fail.
 

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