So there are three of us (Lurch, Wetvet and Myself) that are travelling to Florida tomorrow to take a cave course in High Springs. Very excited about the whole idea.
My question is, is there many people from the Ontario area that have gone through and taken any cave courses? I know there are a few out there. Is there any caves up here that you can practise in? I have heard of a few in the toby area (no, not the groto). Or do you just have to keep going down to places like Florida or Mexico (or Darn)
I know there are lots of skills that you can work on in open water but just not the same as a cave.
Wendy
November 6th, 2003, 01:51 PM
I don't know anything about canada or caves, but I know there a lot of canadian cave divers. I have bunked with a room full of them form time to time while staying at the dive outpost. You will like the caves, become addicted, and end up moving to florida, so be careful. lol
Who are you doing your class with?
diver gadget
November 6th, 2003, 02:17 PM
Doing the classes with Larry Green. He got recomended by a few people up here as well as when the question was posted in the cave section of scuba board. He seems like a nice guy through the conversations we have had so far.
JimC
November 6th, 2003, 03:17 PM
There are some caves in Quebec, 31 mile lake. VERY cold water, most of the caves are deep.
There are some abandond mines in that area too which are divable.
The St Lawrence has a large number of "caverns" in places. Hard to mark, hard to find.. and the current, vis, flow and silt make them nasty holes for the most part.
The Canadain shield is riddled with unstable sumps, which are basicaly undiveable.
Net result, you'll be moveing to FL...
knives
November 6th, 2003, 04:39 PM
:)
I am not a cave diver YET, after my Tech 1 course I will head down to Akumal ,Mexico and take the course...anyhow I know there are some cave systems in Missourri
and West Virginia...http://www.cae.wisc.edu/~brodskye/diving/cavern/cavern.html
have a good course ....I am not too jealous ...I am going down to the keys for some diving next week....yahhhh!!!!!
Eric__U
November 6th, 2003, 06:06 PM
when you planning to do your tech 1? You can PM me to keep this on topic.
divedude
November 9th, 2003, 08:51 PM
Took a cave course in 94, Ginny springs found it interesting as a learning process.......... But very very boring dives!!
Go in the hole...See the rocks.... Go around the corner....See more rocks....... Gee look at those rocks...... Kinda small hole to squeeze through....... Got my big belly stuck..... "POP"...Cool!! more rocks in here...... $hit I got my leg tangled in that line....... Did I already see that rock.......No that's a different rock, neat!! Damm reel......Damm reel!!! $hit I'm all tangled up.....Damm reel...... Hey that rock looks more brown than that other one.....Stupid Stupid cheap reel..... Good vis....Damm flashlight......Ouch!!! Damm rock......Spend next 3 hours on surface untangling reels. Isn't caving fun???
FreeFloat
November 9th, 2003, 09:20 PM
divedude once bubbled...
Go in the hole...See the rocks.... Go around the corner....See more rocks....... Gee look at those rocks...... Kinda small hole to squeeze through....... Got my big belly stuck..... "POP"...Cool!! more rocks in here...... $hit I got my leg tangled in that line....... Did I already see that rock.......No that's a different rock, neat!! Damm reel......Damm reel!!! $hit I'm all tangled up.....Damm reel...... Hey that rock looks more brown than that other one.....Stupid Stupid cheap reel..... Good vis....Damm flashlight......Ouch!!! Damm rock......Spend next 3 hours on surface untangling reels. Isn't caving fun???
And I've already had one person try to convince me that caving is a specialty to aspire to.............
I dunno, from your description it sure sounds intersting...........
Betcha if it got boring, you could rotate so you're swimming while staring "upwards" and try navigating the cave that way... (snicker)
JohnF
November 9th, 2003, 10:29 PM
FreeFloat once bubbled...
And I've already had one person try to convince me that caving is a specialty to aspire to.............
I dunno, from your description it sure sounds intersting...........
Betcha if it got boring, you could rotate so you're swimming while staring "upwards" and try navigating the cave that way... (snicker)
There are some tried and true ways to spice up your cave diving:
1: Wind up the line as you go in.
2: Use exactly half your air supply before the turn
3: Don't charge your batteries
4: Kick up lotsa silt
That's a good start on making cave diving exciting. The unfortunate part is that you probably won't get to enjoy the fun for too long. 8)
John F
cornfed
November 9th, 2003, 10:33 PM
FreeFloat once bubbled...
And I've already had one person try to convince me that caving is a specialty to aspire to.............
I'm sorry, someone told you cave diving should be one of you diving goals? Can you elaborate?
Aquamaniac
November 9th, 2003, 11:03 PM
Got my big belly stuck
I got my leg tangled in that line
I'm all tangled up
Stupid Stupid cheap reel
Damm flashlight......Ouch!!!
Spend next 3 hours on surface untangling reels
Sounds to me like it was a GOOD thing that you didnt enjoy cave diving..........
Dave
JohnF
November 10th, 2003, 08:25 AM
Aquamaniac once bubbled...
Sounds to me like it was a GOOD thing that you didnt enjoy cave diving..........
Dave
Sounded like a pretty typical cavern class viewed with a sense of humour. Even the getting stuck part, except my instructor saw where I was headed and grabbed my fin by way of suggesting the larger passage. In fact it sounded fairly uneventful. That's the fun of taking these courses, and it means he learned something.
I believe a lot of intelligent people realize after experiencing life underground that they see no point in making diving more complicated and dangerous than bright sunny reefs. Then there are those who seem to relish the added complexities of cave diving. It might be fair to call some of them adrenalin junkies, but many truly enjoy the caves for their natural grandeur and serenity, for the challenge, for the chance to be a modern day explorer and go where few, if any, have gone before. The smart ones can make it virtually as safe as reef diving.
John F
Aquamaniac
November 10th, 2003, 09:33 AM
JohnF once bubbled...
Sounded like a pretty typical cavern class viewed with a sense of humour. Even the getting stuck part, except my instructor saw where I was headed and grabbed my fin by way of suggesting the larger passage. In fact it sounded fairly uneventful. That's the fun of taking these courses, and it means he learned something.
I believe a lot of intelligent people realize after experiencing life underground that they see no point in making diving more complicated and dangerous than bright sunny reefs. Then there are those who seem to relish the added complexities of cave diving. It might be fair to call some of them adrenalin junkies, but many truly enjoy the caves for their natural grandeur and serenity, for the challenge, for the chance to be a modern day explorer and go where few, if any, have gone before. The smart ones can make it virtually as safe as reef diving.
John F
He said cave class, not cavern.
My point was, if he wasnt that squared away with skills, was already attempting minor restrictions (above his training level) and saw the cave as "just rocks", not becomming a full time cave diver was a good thing.
cornfed
November 10th, 2003, 09:38 AM
Aquamaniac once bubbled...
He said cave class, not cavern.
You should hear what John did in his "cavern" class.
JohnF
November 10th, 2003, 09:56 AM
cornfed once bubbled...
You should hear what John did in his "cavern" class.
None of it was my fault. The cave gremlins ganged up on me. And besides,Fred said it was a great learning experience. A word to the wise ... Don't learn to dive doubles and a heavy canister during yer cavern course. A dive or two with them before the class is advised.
John F
Aquamaniac
November 10th, 2003, 10:02 AM
JohnF once bubbled...
None of it was my fault. The cave gremlins ganged up on me. And besides,Fred said it was a great learning experience. A word to the wise ... Don't learn to dive doubles and a heavy canister during yer cavern course. A dive or two with them before the class is advised.
John F
Your instructor let you dive doubles and a (Pro 14) for the first time ever in your Cavern class??????
FreeFloat
November 10th, 2003, 10:50 AM
cornfed once bubbled...
I'm sorry, someone told you cave diving should be one of you diving goals? Can you elaborate?
It was more a case of, as we were viewing a video of a cave swim-through, he was saying, "Isn't it beautiful? Wouldn't you liket o try that someday?" His enthusiasm was obvious. From the video, there didn't seem to be much to see....
...But since then, I am having so much fun experiementing with different ways and attitudes of moving through water, that cave or cavern diving is something I might actually enjoy just for the challenges, later on........
divedude
November 10th, 2003, 11:53 AM
Aquamaniac once bubbled...
He said cave class, not cavern.
My point was, if he wasnt that squared away with skills, was already attempting minor restrictions (above his training level) and saw the cave as "just rocks", not becomming a full time cave diver was a good thing.
You don't have a sense of humor at all, do you? ;)
I still, after all the years of (diving above my training level) have fun. Diving for me is FUN....Not a occupational hazard. If you all take diving so serious, why do you do it?
ps. I still don't have my "Skills Squared away"
FreeFloat
If it interests you go try it when you have a little more experience. It is a learning experience and new skill are always good. I didn't have as much problem as I put in my "humous" post, but I did find cave diving boring. But I am glad I took it for the knowledge and skill. Of course this was before DIR so I'm lucky that I survived :D
Tom R
November 10th, 2003, 12:11 PM
Divedude stated Of course this was before DIR so I'm lucky that I survived :D
You finally got that one right.
Tom:rofL:
Aquamaniac
November 10th, 2003, 12:18 PM
divedude once bubbled...
I still, after all the years of (diving above my training level) have fun. Diving for me is FUN....Not a occupational hazard. If you all take diving so serious, why do you do it?
"There have been about 400 fatalities in caves in Florida in the last thirty years. Of these 400, however, only about 30 were actually properly trained in the methods of safe cave diving"
Yeah, I take my cave diving pretty seriously.........and Yeah, I do enjoy it.
JohnF
November 10th, 2003, 01:49 PM
Aquamaniac once bubbled...
Your instructor let you dive doubles and a (Pro 14) for the first time ever in your Cavern class??????
He's a friend of mine and we've dived together in the caverns before. I asked if I could do it that way, on the understanding that if I messed up too badly he'd withhold the cert. Buoyancy was a bit tricky in the beginning. The trickiest part was getting that damned bubble to stay on the right side. The canister weighed about 7# I believe. It pays to have friends who are cave instructors. 8)
John F
FreeFloat
November 10th, 2003, 06:24 PM
divedude once bubbled...
... I didn't have as much problem as I put in my "humous" post, but I did find cave diving boring. ...
I think it would be interesting.
If only for the curiosity - "what's around the next corner?" "oh, it goes UP here. Let's see, now..." etc.
I am a creature affected by curiosity. And after diving the same wreck about two dozen times, I've learned that I CAN also get bored..... challenges could be a good thing...... (uh-oh. Boy am I askin' fer it now)
amobeus
November 10th, 2003, 09:12 PM
Hi
If your serious about becoming a cave diver or at least getting the best training for your buck, I recommend you get in touch with John Orlowski down in Gainsville Florida at AQUASPELEO, he will train you from Cavern to full cave if time permits. Time frame should be spread out over two years so you gain experience, remember there no dam PADI in caves.
Good luck and be safe.
Amobeus
diver gadget
November 17th, 2003, 10:07 AM
Just got back from our week long course. It was great! My fingers are still all cut up and stuff. A little sore typing right now. Larry Green was amazing. A great teacher and highly recomend him if anyone is thinking of going south to take the course.
Now I just have to figure out how to get down there more often. THe caves are a lot of rocks. From going down small passages that open up into big rooms. It's pretty amazing to have all of these caves going everywhere. It may not be for everyone but the skills you learn can help anyone in an open water setting.
amobeus
November 17th, 2003, 04:14 PM
Was this the first time you ever went cave diving and if so, that means you just took your cavern course, as Larry wouldn't let you near a cave system until you were at least ready for your cave entry program.
Confused
Amobeus
MikeFerrara
November 17th, 2003, 04:43 PM
amobeus once bubbled...
Was this the first time you ever went cave diving and if so, that means you just took your cavern course, as Larry wouldn't let you near a cave system until you were at least ready for your cave entry program.
Confused
Amobeus
Sounds like they did the whole full cave thing in a week. It's done all the time.
amobeus
November 17th, 2003, 08:16 PM
You could be right, what ever happened to the days when the instructor sent you away to gain at least some cavern and buoyancy experience befor you moved up into full cave. Times are changing I guess.
Congrats on your cave course.
Amobeus
DeepScuba
November 17th, 2003, 09:22 PM
Divedude.....you kill me!!! :clap:
I was suprised to hear, last week while in Coz, that our Cave Diver/Guide...Tony, from ScubaTony (http://www.scubatony.com) said that you can get your Full Cave in a week!
I though about it for a while, and concluded that, although I'm not a real big fan of the idea, especially if you're real new, never used doubles, reels etc etc, that it might just be too much, I guess the thinking is, it gives you a licence to continue learning and building your knowledge on your own. (With an experienced buddy for instance.)
By the way, I highly recommend scubatony for your Cavern guide while in Coz. Tony is a real professional, and all around nice guy. Plus his "after-dive" plans, if you wish, would possibly be the most memorable time of your trip (Above water).
Regards
diver gadget
November 18th, 2003, 07:38 AM
We took the whole course. From Cavern to Cave. It was a crazy busy week. As far as being able to practice we live in Ontario. Not many caves around to practice in. We had already been diving doubles for a few years and our gear was already pretty squared away.
If I lived in florida and could get practice dives in between the courses I would have done it that way. As for anyone without the ability to dive a cave in your backyard I would recomend the one week course. It is a lot of work and may not be for everyone but we had fun.
MikeFerrara
November 18th, 2003, 08:04 AM
As I see it there are a few things going on.
One thing is that years ago you likely wouldn't get into cave diving unless you lived in or already frequented cave country and you knew some one to get you started. The major cave training agencies have always had a policy of NOT promoting cave diving. Their charter was to offer training to those who were determined to cave dive. You might dive with your instructor and/or mentor for a long time before you got a card. The card didn't matter because you were cave diving every weekend anyway. Shortly before this BTW there was no formal training at all. Also many who got into cave diving went right from their initial scuba training streight to cave diving. I know one guy who learned to specifically to cave dive. He went right from an OW class to cave training and right from there to Kentucky sumps (among the nastiest kind of cave). He probably doesn't have 2 dozen OW dives all total. He only dives to lay line.
Cave diving and technical diving is getting more popular, more people know about it and seek it out. Along with these changes it's getting to be big business and is being promoted.
Fo me living in Indiana it's unlikely that I would have a regular buddy/mentor to guid me through my cave diving education. As already mentioned I could go take a cavern course and then go home but there wouldn't be any cavern diving til I went back.
I did a one week cave course. I also had 600 or 700 dives before I started, a couple hundred of those being in doubles and I already had some technical training and experience. While the cave course was a busy schedule, I didn't find it difficult at all. Right after my cave training I went to diving Missouri caves. It was spring and the natural caves were blown out so we were diving flooded mines in 45 ged F water and Zero vis near the entrances. We did take it kind of slow as far as dive distance and complexity but there wasn't any one to hold our hand. When the caves cleared we started diving them. Nice caves but they're deep. We do still dive with our former cave instructor once in a while but he hps all over the worls and it's hard to match schedules.
I think that depending on the person it can be done either way. However, we do see those face prints in the silt in the popular caves. So the question becomes, with the increase in popularity are instructors lowering the bar in order to make more money and taking divers into and turning them loose into caves before they are ready? Are divers being allowed to begin cave training without having the requisite skills? Certainly if you're struggling with the basics you shouldn't be in a cave (for the sake of the cave).
IMO, the slop were seeing in cave and technical diving is nothing more than the slop we see in recreationsal diving spreading out. The poorly trained and skilled recreational divers are becomming poorly skilled instructors, cave divers and technical divers.
Lurch
November 18th, 2003, 10:43 AM
I to did the one week course with Gadget, it was a tough course I I don't feel that we were alowed to pass. We earned it but we all had pretty strong skills going in. I did not see our instructor as a pass everyone and do as many students as you can type of teacher. We had to sign waivers in the begining saying that he has the right to fail us and that the course fee was not a c card. If you want to do the one week method your skills and gear need to be squared away befor you go. If you are fighting with basic bouyancy and trim alot then you are better to not try because it will be a long frusterating week without much success.
We plan to practice skills up here and keep on eachother so that when we go back we will still be sharp (or atleast not dull) with the skills we refined.
It was a great course and I loved it!
Rob
deepdiver5by5
November 18th, 2003, 12:47 PM
I think this topic is mute because Larry, if you know him is at the top of his field. He does not pass the student if they are not safe or their skills are not excellent. Well done guys I think you were trained by the best!!!!!!! I would dive with you any day!!
DIVE DEEP
deepdiver5by5
