Considering BP/W switch and need input

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lulubelle

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Nothing wrong with my BC, a Zeagle Stiletto with almost 200 dives on it. But although I dive within recreational limits, I am toying with the idea of switching over to a BP/W for two reasons: 1) streamlining here at home in NC, I dive a HP steel 100 and require no weight with a singles rig leaving extra bulk in the pockets which is not useful and 2) to have a less bulky set up for travel.

1. Steel or Aluminum plate? Seems like Al would be the answer in the first scenario, steel in the second.
2. What sort of lift do I need if diving a singles rig? I don't really use my BC now.
3. Of course it all changes if I decide to do AN/deco training. I am pretty iffy about my plans on that front.
4. Types and brands of harnesses and wings? I'm clear as mud what the differences are despite reading a lot of threads on the subject.

Please offer any tidbits you care to. If I switch over, I'd LIKE to get it right the first time.

Thanks!
 
having just gone through the switch, just make sure you get everything on the first go. i forgot my tank straps...i went with an apeks BP/W set up (one piece web harness, AL BP, WTX3 (32lbs for singles) and STA. out the door was $425 here. i think NE Scuba SUpply still has a $299 DR travel set up which i wish i had seen first.
 
I did a DSS LCD30 for single and Torus49 for doubles. What I like about Tobin's rig is no need for an STA when diving singles -- I can use same plate and different wing, though in the end I bought two plates. Also his singles wing has a rubber tank non-slip thingy to grip the tank. The price was right and he helped me to determine the right equipment for my needs. Going on 5 years now since buying it and haven't had any problems. I got the SS because we need lots of weight here its so cold. Call Tobin and he'll help you figure out your lift requirements. He put a thread on TDS to instruct that very topic.
 
Call Tobin and all your questions will be answered.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I myself have a DSS bp/w, LCD wing 30 lbs lift. It being my first bcd purchase i am very satisfied, when compared to using jacket bcs for doing my first few dives and OW cert.
single tank you would most likely need 30 lbs lift too. but contact tobin he will tell you exactly.

highly recommended!
 
Nothing wrong with my BC, a Zeagle Stiletto with almost 200 dives on it. But although I dive within recreational limits, I am toying with the idea of switching over to a BP/W for two reasons: 1) streamlining here at home in NC, I dive a HP steel 100 and require no weight with a singles rig leaving extra bulk in the pockets which is not useful and 2) to have a less bulky set up for travel.

1. Steel or Aluminum plate? Seems like Al would be the answer in the first scenario, steel in the second.
2. What sort of lift do I need if diving a singles rig? I don't really use my BC now.
3. Of course it all changes if I decide to do AN/deco training. I am pretty iffy about my plans on that front.
4. Types and brands of harnesses and wings? I'm clear as mud what the differences are despite reading a lot of threads on the subject.

Please offer any tidbits you care to. If I switch over, I'd LIKE to get it right the first time.

Thanks!
You'll love the switch if you do it.
Just be aware that I am heavily biased, being that I dive a BP/W setup. I have, however, dove many many times in a standard jacket BCD, as well as a back-inflate BCD, and been fine and well-enough trimmed nearly every time.

I hope you like reading

:

1)
If you require no weight with a standard BCD, then an aluminum backplate would be perfect. I presume your water must be far warmer than the stuff up in Jersey where I dive! Must be nice to wear a thin wetsuit :)

Steel backplate will be useful for anytime you are in a drysuit, or diving AL 80 doubles, etc.
Aluminum backplate will be useful for many steel doubles (HP almost certainly, LP - usually), as well as your situation described above.
In the end, you may likely have one of each. That's perfectly fine. Lets you have the best one for any setup.
For your first one - get aluminum.

For airline travel, aluminum has the advantage! Why? Weight restrictions!
You can always throw on a few pounds to a weight belt or your harness to compensate at your destination; every shop and boat I've ever used can supply weights.
Some will say that your trim will be slightly altered by shifting a few pounds from the backplate to your waist, and they are right. But to be honest, you can compensate/adapt just fine. It's minor.
If you're doing something where you MUST take the steel plate along, or hate adding weight or changing trim, then by all means take a steel. These are just my opinions after all.

Your other common light travel backplate options are a composite backplate (plastic) or a flexible backplate (Dive Rite TransPac, Oxycheq Ultra Light, etc).
I have no experiences with composite backplates, so I won't comment.
I do own a flexible backplate, which I use with a 20 lb wing, and it is nearly the ultimate travel setup. I can roll the wing up, backplate wrapped somewhat outside, and have the whole setup take up about the same space as a new roll of paper towels, harness and all accessories included (but not regs or a can light).
Only downside is that on the surface it feels a bit wiggly since it is not a solid backplate. Underwater I don't notice, so for me it's okay for travel.



2)
A 30 lb wing will let you float just about any singles rig by itself, or at least keep the rig neutral (rare). This is a nice convenience if you have to gear up in the water, for example.
A 20 lb wing will be a bit smaller, but may not keep your setup floating, depending on what you have put together. I know for a fact that it won't float my 119HP w/steel backplate and a can light! Even with the 20 fully inflated. But with the 30, I am okay.
For travel, a 20 lb works fine for me, because I'm not using a tank as heavy as a 119HP... usually using AL80 or euro steel equivalent to that of a 100. That and my flex plate weighs less than a steel or AL.
40 lb wings are available for singles setups, but I wouldn't recommend one in your case. If you're concerned about profile/drag, a 30 lb wing isn't a problem, but a 40 gets a bit floppy! (depends on brand)

For the actual diving part, I weight myself neutral as well, so I'm only adding a bit of air to the wing to offset exposure protection compressibility (wetsuit), air use, and small buoyancy changes.

I personally use a 30 lb wing for all my single steel diving up here in the North Atlantic, and have a 20 lb wing for my travel rig (only 'cause the 20 was free ... the 30 only takes up a bit more space and would pack fine)


3)
Plan on it. Can't hurt. (aside from your wallet)


4)
This is where people start fighting.
I'll tell you what I use. I did quite a bit of research before picking out my gear, but things are different for everyone.

Backplate: Dive Rite steel. Fits me great. Mine doesn't have the flared out bottom corners, which could bother some people. (Hips/butt). My next backplate will be Halcyon; I like the way it integrates a storage pouch on the inside for an SMB/etc.
My travel plate is an Oxycheq Ultra Light (flexible) as I was talking about above. TransPac is also good.
My advice: All backplates have slightly different angles, so try on first if at all possible. Extra holes/slots on the edges can be nice for customizing/accessories if that's what your into. Make sure the harness threads through to your liking (again, minor differences) and that there is a slot to thread a crotch strap.

Harness: It's 2-inch webbing. As long as it's the kind that has been resin-treated (stiffer, makes the harness hold its shape better) you're good. I use 6 D-rings - 2 on the shoulders, 2 on waist, 2 on the crotch strap (one front, one back). Some prefer 5 total (no right waist D-ring) for clutter/simplicity reasons. Makes sense.
My advice: The key thing to splurge on is hardware. Sliders/lockers, d-rings, buckles, bolt snaps, etc. - stainless steel. It is also highly recommended to attach accessories to bolt snaps or your backplate using cave line. This prevents inconvenient things like dying when a piece of gear gets tangled up and you need to cut it off.

Wing: I use a 30 lb Halcyon Eclipse, and a 20 lb Dive Rite travel-something (forget name).
Neither have pull-dumps on the inflators; I do not like them for many reasons, mainly reliability/failure points and field serviceability complications. This is just a preference of mine. My inflator hoses are also the shorter ones.
My advice: Try in a pool at the minimum if possible! Different wings have different bladder shapes, different mounting points, different rear dump valve locations ... all of which affect trim and comfort in the end!

Single-tank adapter (STA): I use a Dive Rite STA. Simple and solid. Halcyon also makes a fantastic STA, that you can even add an interior weight to, if a steel backplate still isn't heavy enough and you don't like trim weights. Some brands of backplate/wing combinations don't require an STA, as the bands can work with the wing to secure the tank while threading through the backplate. I have no experience with this and so can't say much. I have heard the tank isn't secured as solidly, but I don't know how true that is, if at all.
My flexible backplate doesn't need an STA by nature, but the tank is a bit wobbly side-to-side when walking around on the surface. Doesn't matter so much down below.
My advice: Make sure the STA works well with your wing and tank (hole spacing, band position, STA+wing chafing), especially if all the parts are different brands. Some STAs may position the top band too high or bottom band too low for some people's liking.

Cam bands: I have Halcyon, Dive Rite, and a few off-brands. They all work great.
My advice: Splurge on stainless steel with nice tank grip pads to protect the tank from the buckle.





Hope I was able to help. I'm sitting here in the middle-east right now (deployed) and had nothing better to do, since we have the day off.

Merry Christmas everyone.
 
Lift: What your wing has to do is float your rig on the surface with you not in it, and compensate for the loss of lift with depth if you are diving wet. So what you have to know to calculate the wing size you need is how negative your rig itself is (with any added weight you use, and with full tanks) and what the maximum amount of lift you can lose from your exposure protection is. The larger of the two numbers is your required lift.

As far as makes and models, there are quite a few choices today that didn't exist when I got my gear six years ago. DSS is still high on the list, because Tobin will make darned sure you get the gear that's appropriate for your application, even if he irritates you in the process. Halcyon makes quality gear, but it's expensive. HOG is producing some low-cost alternatives. Golem Gear periodically has mad sales. Some people swear by Oxycheq, but I would not buy anything from them, after some bad customer service experiences.

Things to look at are whether the setup has camband slots (I learned, to my chagrin, that the wonderfully designed small pattern Halcyon plate does not) or whether you require an STA, and whether there is any provision for adding weight (as Tobin has with his weight plates).

If you are diving a Stiletto with no additional weight, you might want an aluminum or Kydex plate.
 
The wife and I have DSS rigs with steel back plates and 17lb wings, we only dive warm water with aluminum 80's so this works great for us, very minimalist. I agree that you'll eventually need or want steel and Kydex or aluminum BP's. I'm a big fan of DSS products, but I like Halcyon's equipment too. Good luck.
 
You will be going away from the best fitting (If correctly sized)best designed, best diving BC on the market to what, webbing threaded through a plate. You may like it or you may not.
You might consider removing the unnecessary rear trim weigh system off the Stiletto to save about 2 pounds travel weight.

..
 
What great advice, thank you ALL! Merry whatever you celebrate!

To clarify a couple of things...

1. I take no weight when diving a HP steel 100 and wearing a 3mm full suit. I am in search of a 5mm which fits which I have come to believe is impossible and I will have to go custom. I don't have intentions of diving water any colder than what we have here at home, NC, in the spring and fall. So here at home with a singles rig, it sounds like an AL plate would be fine.

2. When I travel and dive an AL 80, and am wearing a 3mm full suit, I take about 12 pounds. Yes, I know, the formulas say this isn't so, but I do weight checks, and it is so for me. So in a situation where I am traveling, it seems that a steel plate would be nice, as I hate weight belts. Though it would have to be carried on an airplane.

3. Harnesses-there are different kinds, right? I have heard of these quick release ones. From what I can tell though, the one piece ones makes more sense. Adjustability is important to me as I am getting smaller. I am not ingrowing my BC as it is a Zeagle and infinitely adjustable. But for a harness, it needs to get smaller as I do.

4. It sounds like I will definitely be getting two wings, one for travel, one for home when diving my steels. TS and M, is it only MY gear I need to be prepared to float? I dive to the edge of rec limits here in NC.

5. I like the idea of plates which are designed for easier stowage of bits and pieces, one of you mention a plate which was designed to help stow an SMB. I carry two SMBs here at home. A reel and a spool, one or two lights.

6. Who the heck is Tobin? I am happy to call Tobin, but I have no idea who he is and where he does what he does, lol.

EFF, Merry Christmas to you in particular. Those of you who are not with your families today have our sincere thanks and best wishes that you get to come home soon.
 
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