Beginner

[bugbittengirl]

I have never done any underwater photography. I am heading to Asia for a very long holiday and plan to do ALOT of diving. I would like to buy a basic but good camera/housing setup. I have been sugguested the Canon G12. I am not sure where to go from there with reguards to housing and strobes etc. Any help will be appreciated as I would hate to get all the way out there and find I have bought the wrong stuff! Thanx in advance.

[Mark Derail]

Get a used set for starters, like the Sealife kit for sale @ 700$, that I'm hoping to buy.
See http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/classifieds-photography/409008-sealife-dc1000-elite-kit-700-shipped-obo.html


Not knowing your level of comfort with cameras in general - why not simply use a GoPro, use the video mode only, and capture frames off the 720p video for pictures?
On land I'm a pro photographer, UW quite the beginner.

I've started small, with smaller kits, less expensive. Learning to dive & learning to take UW pics do NOT go hand-in-hand.

Consider video only! 720p or 1080p.
A single frame would be 1280x720 pixels, that is like a 2 mega-pixel picture. With today's great printers, a 4x6 print won't look bad at all.
- 1080p = you get more pixels, but less FPS (frames per second) the current standard is 24. That is *very* slow.
- 720p = less pixels, but still 4x better than a "standard" video from 1995, and FPS you'll get 30 (good) or 60 (best).

Expect that below 15 feet everything will go blue on you, that's why strobes are so big and cost more than the camera itself. Many places in Asia have outstanding shallow reefs with plenty of things to take pictures of.

Used kit @700$, a fully-equiped GoPro that can go *everywhere* you go 700$

- or -

a fully equipped point-and-shoot like the Canon G12, is about 700$ with housing. Strobes can cost 500$ - 1200$ each, plus accessories.
Without strobes, don't expect below 15 feet on a sunny day to look good, unless you're up-close, like within 1 foot, with the built-in flash.

Below 15 feet your basic point-and-shoot + housing is great only for macro shoots. Unless, you take a "profile" pic, say of a shark swimming above you, between you & the sun, that will look nice.

If money is no object - find a dive shop that sells UW cameras, lights, strobes, accessories. Be prepared to spend over 2k$ for entry-level gear that will take awesome pictures in the 2 feet - 15 feet range.

Above 15 feet, say in the first 5-10 feet, on a sunny day, pictures without a strobe will look great, don't use the built-in flash, as that will only reflect off of bubbles and sediment.

[asha]

I can recommend the Sea and Sea YS-01 as a good, compact, and relatively inexpensive strobe. I use a pair of them with a Canon s90/s95 and they work well. I have some examples of photos taken with this setup on the website in my signature.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=32.732023,-117.201433

[Mark Derail]

This is rare to find such a kit used - the pics are so great - not many people want to upgrade to 14 mega-pixels from 8mp or 10mp.

One thing I've done with 720p pic grabs, is put two of them inside a single JPG for 4x6 print. Each pic being 4x3. So you can "assemble" two views of the same subject, and software is free if you use Paint.Net, or GIMP. I prefer Paint.Net for beginners.

I find it easier to use Apple Quicktime to capture frames as pictures, free version.



I can recommend the Sea and Sea YS-01 as a good, compact, and relatively inexpensive strobe. I use a pair of them with a Canon s90/s95 and they work well. I have some examples of photos taken with this setup on the website in my signature.


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I am here: Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=32.732023,-117.201433)

[nimoh]

You might want to consider a camera like the SeaLife DC1200 or DC1400. It is designed to make underwater photography easier with preset modes, although probably a bit pricey considering you mention "basic" camera.

I am currently using an old Sony DSC-12 with a Sony housing, and have used it since I first got into diving, but looking to upgrade. I have considered the DC1400, but decided that I am going to go all out with photography so trying to save up some cash :)

[Wisnu]

G12, S95, XZ-1 is nice camera, but I personally prefer XZ-1. good quality housing w/ M67 port at reasonable cost. My younger daughter use XZ-1 with D2000 - she's quite happy and able to get decent pictures - check the link below, though I'm not sure if her blog still active since we're not able to access since we move here. Blogspot is banned here.The macro shots on her sister blog (sure her blog is okay) are also taken with XZ-1 w/ D2000. You canb get S2000 which is very compact or YS-02 if you want to save at least USD 150 - but no STTL on YS-02 which is not big issue at all.In fact, we always use manual mode all the time.

[flareside]

Wisnu: The blog page is still active and your daughter has taken some remarkable photos.

[smellzlikefish]

I would stick with Canon's compact line. It is a little basic, but I've heard good thing about the S95. If you are looking to learn fast, I have a G12 and love it. The only reason I don't use it anymore is I have since upgraded to a T1i to drag with me underwater instead.

A bunch of companies have recently come out with cameras designed specifically for underwater use, but I have yet to be impressed with the image quality from these. The companies seem more focused on keeping the water out of their cameras (which is easy) than establishing good optics. Check out the camera and take a few pictures before you buy it. If you aren't impressed immediately, go with something else.

[Mark Derail]

The Panasonic point-and-shoots for UW, without a case can go 20m (the newer model). The one I killed went to 10m.

I killed it by having it out in the sun for half an hour, metal expanded and salty-water (from my salt-water pool) seeped in. However, I brought it with me down South, and it took great pictures UW in the 0-10 feet range, sunny, and flash disabled.

Videos were more fun however.

[thejamez]

It really all depends on a) your budget and b) your expectations.

You can get a very basic cheap UW camera that will go as deep as you want (sealife mini) but leaves you with almost no control and no lighting, and the pictures will reflect this. And it only goes up from there... i'd say the priorities are this:
1. the camera (p&s , slr , manual controls , raw? )
2. the housing
3. strobe(s) + tray/arm + connections
4. lenses

1&2 are must haves to get even get in the water.
3. drastically improves pictures.
4. specializes what you can do (wide angle , macro , etc)

[flareside]

Bugbittengirl:

You note you are going on an extended holiday so I would suggest you work through your local dive shop or underwater photo center getting this in order. Creating a good kit is of no value if you get there and something doesn't work. Practice with them getting it fully assembled and above all get your housing pressure tested before you leave. Spend some time in the pool practicing buoyancy with the camera weighing you down and moving about with proper fin movement as to not stir up silt. Remember safety first (both reef and personal), photos second.

The G12 is a very good camera but you might give some consideration to the S100. The lens is 24mm wide and has and f/2 aperature compared to the 28mm and f/2.8 of the G12. Both of these features will be a benefit underwater. The S100 has better video and is also smaller and more easily packable. Adding an Inon S2000 or the YS-01 and a small tray and flex arm will round out the package nicely. Be sure and use an optical cable connection on the flash rather than the bounce light method which is unreliable.

Have a safe trip. And remember... We want to see photos when you get back!

[azscubadude]

Bugbittengirl:

The G12 is a very good camera but you might give some consideration to the S100. The lens is 24mm wide and has and f/2 aperature compared to the 28mm and f/2.8 of the G12. Both of these features will be a benefit underwater. The S100 has better video and is also smaller and more easily packable. Adding an Inon S2000 or the YS-01 and a small tray and flex arm will round out the package nicely. Be sure and use an optical cable connection on the flash rather than the bounce light method which is unreliable.

Have a safe trip. And remember... We want to see photos when you get back!

The s95 and s100 are very nice cameras but just remember, if you are looking for TTL you can't do it with these as they do not have a hot shoe for the flash, which is required for TTL hookup.

As flareside mentioned, the video on the s100 is HD 1080, the s95 is 720, both HiDef.
Here is a short video at 720 on the G12.. http://chrisd.net/xEDS1Q
Don't mind the still photos in the video, I took them with my little walk around P&S and they got a bit fuzzy in iMovie.

I've viewed the photos on the previous page at this post (go to the bottom where his signature is and click on the blog link)..


Wisnu
G12, S95, XZ-1 is nice camera, but I personally prefer XZ-1. good quality housing w/ M67 port at reasonable cost. My younger daughter use XZ-1 with D2000 - she's quite happy and able to get decent pictures..








The XZ-1 and Wisnu's daughters photos using the XZ-1 are beautiful (and it has a hot shoe). I was very surprised at the quality of photos this camera (and the photographer) took.

Here is a link to the blog I mentioned.. http://melati-wisnu.blogspot.com/ (http://melati-wisnu.blogspot.com/)

I have noticed that a lot of housing manufacturers are shying away from quite a few of the small compact cameras being release, especial the 4/3rds because customers can't get their hands on them as the manufacturers are having a hard time producing them.

Here is a quote from Ikelites web site on quite a few of them. Not sure what other housing manufacturers are doing.


As the result of a number of unexpected delays, Ikelite has chosen to suspend the development of housings for current model mirror-less interchangeable lens cameras. Affected models include, but are not limited to:

Olympus PEN E-P1, E-P2, E-PL1, E-PL1s
Panasonic GF-1, GF-2
Samsung NX100Sony NEX-3, NEX-5

It's not an easy task you are undertaking but as others have said, it depends on your budget. If you can afford it and love photography don't skimp because as you get more experience you will want to move up to get better photos. It happens to everyone.

[flareside]

As flareside mentioned, the video on the s100 is HD 720...
Actually, I never said that. The video on the S100 is 1080p @ 24fps while the S95 and G12 are only 720p @ 24fps. The S100 also has a dedicated record button.



...if you are looking for TTL you can't do it with these as they do not have a hot shoe for the flash, which is required for TTL hookup.
TTL is not a valid reason to disregard various models as extremely few divers actually use it and it severely restricts your strobe and housing choices. The optical S-TTL system is used by the vast majority of the members of the forum and if you have looked around, some very fine photos have come from using it.

[Mark Derail]

24 fps = yuck, if the same camera can do higher fps but at a lower resolution, I'd use that.
However, it IS good enough for gleaning pics off the video stream for a "collage" of pics if the lighting is good.
My point being, much easier to video fast-moving fish than for a beginner to float into position, get the camera on, focus, get the shot.

Here's what I'm currently using, starting the "learning curve" from dead-simple and working my way up. I've spent 150$ + 500$ so far, with *pitiful* results, but a great learning experience.

I have a cheapie 640x480 dead-simple video solution. I'm going to duct-tape it to the camera UW housing instead, lost too many nice pics due to Oly Sp-350 (8mp) camera not turning on & focusing fast enough. With the Easy Shot Clip mounted to your mask / mounted on your head, moves around WAY too much. I just got lots of video of me holding my Oly and playing with the buttons, lol.

114692

On sale here: http://www.concordkeystone.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=512

Easy Shot Clip VGA Outdoor & Diving Kit Ultra Mini Waterproof Digital Video Camera
100ft/30m Waterproof Housing and Mounting Accessories Included

Note: Don't get the Olympus SP-350 & use rechargeable batteries...firmware bug due to 2x1.2v versus 2x1.5v, camera turns off all the time thinking the batteries are weak.



So,

With video and a decent LED-white high lumen UW flashlight ducktaped to the camera, can be an easy MacGuyver way of getting -something- good from a beginner - judging by her post - double beginner.
- amount of dives
- photography experience

I want to encourage the new arrivals....!

I still go *facepalm* at GoPro videographers going 100 feet on first dive, then 50-60 on 2nd dive, and they don't have a lightsource, not even a 100$ UW LED-based one.

[azscubadude]

Actually, I never said that. The video on the S100 is 1080p @ 24fps while the S95 and G12 are only 720p @ 24fps. The S100 also has a dedicated record button.

You are correct. After I thought about it and realized I was thinking about the s95, and changed my post, you must have already been doing your post.. sorry !



TTL is not a valid reason to disregard various models as extremely few divers actually use it and it severely restricts your strobe and housing choices. The optical S-TTL system is used by the vast majority of the members of the forum and if you have looked around, some very fine photos have come from using it.

Correct again. I was referring to hardwired TTL not sTTL, that is why I mentioned the hot shoe.

[mfolsom]

I use a Canon G-11, Ikelite case and Sola 1200. It works quite well but I have not had much time with the Sola light yet. I would still like a TTL flash to go with it. I have yet to dive without a camera in hand. It just feels right to me to have it along.

I am also interested in the GoPro Hero2 for some video and it would mount right on my Ikelite tray. I could be shooting both video and still together.

Good luck with your search and practice, practice, practice with what ever you end up with.

[s2ross]

Hi, nice looking video. Can you tell me if you used a strobe or a colour filter. I'm currently exploring the S95 as my first underwater video camera

[azscubadude]

Hi, nice looking video. Can you tell me if you used a strobe or a colour filter. I'm currently exploring the S95 as my first underwater video camera

If you are asking me ? The video linked above has daytime and night dive video. On the daytime video (Eel) nothing was used (lights or filter, might have had the focus light on.. don't remember), on the night dive video (Hermit Crab) I had video lights and a focus light on.

[thejamez]

24 fps = yuck, if the same camera can do higher fps but at a lower resolution, I'd use that.
yet the gopro only does 30 fps at 1080p, and has no viewfinder/lcd to even see what you're shooting... no zoom, and fixed focus...yuck :dontknow:

[Mark Derail]

yet the gopro only does 30 fps at 1080p, and has no viewfinder/lcd to even see what you're shooting... no zoom, and fixed focus...yuck :dontknow:

Which is why I bought the (now below 100$) Clipshot, it does 640x480 @ 30fps, writes to AVI and used like a usb key. Plain simple, easy. Instead of the over-priced gopro.

Why, use two Clipshots together for 3D !

[Down2bizDiver]

I love my GoPros, 1 and 2. I use Eye of Mine case. No bulk, no messing around at depth, always ready for the shot, light weight and easy to pack and transport, inexpensive. Video from last week's trip:
Giant Manta Ray Lays a Bomb in HD - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=360DkrhCczU)

[bugbittengirl]

...Thanx for all the advise....now it is decision time....funds are limited...so it boils down to more diving vs. better camera equipment and less diving.....

[Mark Derail]

I love my GoPros, 1 and 2. I use Eye of Mine case. No bulk, no messing around at depth, always ready for the shot, light weight and easy to pack and transport, inexpensive. Video from last week's trip:
Giant Manta Ray Lays a Bomb in HD - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=360DkrhCczU)

Nice vid! Sent comment & like on Youtube also. Great control on video, smooth panning. Was it on your arm?

[Mark Derail]

...Thanx for all the advise....now it is decision time....funds are limited...so it boils down to more diving vs. better camera equipment and less diving.....

Go with More diving, and get a disposable for the 0-10 feet range, and use your new SKILLS to be an awesome snorkeler & free diver. Use the disposable then.

The PADI OW has a chapter on how to free dive, it works. I don't use a wetsuit with weights freediving though, just fins/mask/snorkel. Less work getting from car to beach.

Be calm, floating, then 3 quick breaths, fourth breath a half breath just to equalize your ears, and dive like a duck, just kick with the fins once.
Use your half breath to equalize...you'll be in the 10 feet range, no ear pain, just a 1/2 second from the surface.

Now the hard part - resist the urge to surface immediately. If you're in good health, you can easily last 1 minute. I last about 30 seconds on choppy ocean.

If you want to practice on dry land, be calm, do 3 quick breaths when your pulse won't be any slower - and run quick for 5 seconds - then stop, and time how long you last, and run quick back to where you where. It will give you confidence.

* best practised on the beach with curious onlookers...
* If you can last 30+ seconds between two quick runs...it means you have time to dive to 10 feet, frame and grab a shot, and slowly float back up.
* practice in water that has no waves first, like the deep end of a pool
* practice "jumping" out of the water with your fins on the way back, to grab a lungful of air, and while airborne, put your snorkel on and blow the water out.

My last trip and I was to get near the 20' range - but I need to equalize twice that deep - which is my current limit. However, I found it more satisfying staying in the 10-12 feet range, and practise framing and getting a picture.

I got better pics freediving than scuba diving, because of the lighting conditions, my strobe / flash is too feeble.

[Carolhardinn]

That discussion really works well for me.