Questions about going pro.

Hello, I hope someone can offer some insight for me.

It looks like I'm about to move from the US to Brunei, because of my wife's job. We're both PADI AOW certified, and I MAY have the opportunity to take the training to go pro, as a part time instructor.

I'm interested to know if people generally get their DM and just do that for a while before getting the instructor rating, or whether they just sign up for a full course and go from (A)OW to instructor.

Is there any advice you can offer to someone thinking of going pro.

Before anyone suggests it, I'm not doing it for the money, I know that instructors often barely scrape a living out of it. I'd be doing it because I love to dive and because for 3-4 years I wouldn't have to rely on bringing in a big wage. It just seemed like a great opportunity to do something I enjoy and cover my costs while also gaining a lot of experiences.

Thanks,

J.

I was a certified active diver for 7 years before doing DM. I was an active DM for 5 years before going Instructor.

I teach now sporadically with a co-instructor buddy enough to keep my priveleges and cover my insurance/renewal costs and most importantly....to stay fresh and not burned out. I've seen too many instructors go hog wild in the beginning and burn-out while churning out so-so divers.

It "sounds" like you've got a good opportunity, but you should ask yourself if your skill level is high enough to go pro.

Unfortunately, this profession has way too many 100 dive wonders for my liking.

Just my 2 cents and not meant to offend.

Personaly myself, I stayed a Divemaster for over a year before moving on to AI and Instructor. I believe the time I spent working with students and different Instructors made the transition easier, and the knowledge I gained irreplaceable. Time well spent. The guy I did my Divemaster with, went right on, and I watched him struggle as I was gaining experiance.....

When I finished my DM course, my instructor told me I could move on to Instructor BUT what he would recommend is that I at least double my # of dives and get certain specialities that would make me a more valuable inst. (deep, wreck, equipment, and underwater naturalist). I totally respect his opinion and am doing just that. (Well, now I work in a shop so I gues I took it a little further). I think being a DM is a great way to slowly train for Instr. and not be one of those MANY crappy 100 dive newbies (well stated in above post).

Freeflyer once bubbled...


Before anyone suggests it, I'm not doing it for the money, I know that instructors often barely scrape a living out of it. I'd be doing it because I love to dive and because for 3-4 years I wouldn't have to rely on bringing in a big wage. It just seemed like a great opportunity to do something I enjoy and cover my costs while also gaining a lot of experiences.

Thanks,

J.

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It's hardly suprising that instructors earn a poor wage when people are willing to do a hard days work, sometimes seven days a week and not get paid for it.
Why invest $2000- $3000 on professional qualifications and expect no reward?
The dive operators are earning good money out of instructors, enjoyment is great, iv'e also found that money helps too.

the_dumper once bubbled...

It's hardly suprising that instructors earn a poor wage when people are willing to do a hard days work, sometimes seven days a week and not get paid for it.
Why invest $2000- $3000 on professional qualifications and expect no reward?
The dive operators are earning good money out of instructors, enjoyment is great, iv'e also found that money helps too.

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OK, I probably didn't phrase that well. Because I won't be the primary wage earner in the family, the week's food won't rely on me getting the right number of students every week.

I've read a number of posts where people have criticised others asking for information about going pro, because they seemed to believe that all the newbies expected to be working in paradise and making lots of money, when this isn't usually the case.

I agree with you that it does seem as though instructors are underpaid for the effort they put in, and are expected to put up with this for the 'pleasure' of doing a job they enjoy. I was just trying to suggest that I had a realistic view of the earning potential of a new instructor so that I didn't get that.

Anyway, hopefully this will put things back on topic.

Cheers,

J.

Dont let someone else take advantage of your good nature and willingness to learn.

I would suggest that working for a dive shop can be a very rewarding experience. Get the right boss, and you will have a brilliant time.

However as a DM I do not think you will get paid very much and they could abuse their position of trust by using you for loads of stuff.

As a DM you dont have much say when you are in SE Asia. As an instructor you have a little more say, but then you will learn very quickly that terms and conditions vary wildly depending on the dive shop you work for.

I would say, do your DM and then, go diving, learn to enjoy diving before you throw yourself into becoming an instructor. Help out instructors and gain experience from them, and then when you are comfortable with the daft things students do, and then look at doing your instructors.

Not because

way too many 100 dive wonders"

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etc, but from my own experience I went right through very quickly and learnt very quickly. Then worked solidly for 7 years as an instructor/guide and racked up over 5000 dives. Of all of my dives only about 200-300 have been for me. The rest have been guiding, teaching, or working. Frankly I am burnt out. I even considered selling my gear because I never wanted to see the water again .... then I re-discovered that diving is actually fun.

Have fun first ... it is the better way to go.

I got the pitch when I took rescue.

I have no desire to teach or DM. I MIGHT try to cut a deal with one or more of the local shops here next summer to tape some of their customer's dives and put them on either VCD or DVD, provided that the numbers can be made to work (it might not be), but only at my discretion and when I want to be doing it.

I can't imagine wanting to teach or DM. I don't know of ANY instructors or DMs around here who ever get to do some "fun dives." I've offered to several of them the opportunity to come out and dive with me, and none has ever had a day off when they could take advantage of that.

I just can't see the value or purpose in "going pro" in today's environment. You will be asked to whore for the shop, and the shop is whoring for the manufacturers, with the entire thing being orchestrated by the shops, manufacturers and agencies.

Why would you want to become a part of that machine?

Ask yourself that first, and make sure you like the answer when you give it honest reflection, because that's what you're buying into.

Freeflyer once bubbled...
Hello, I hope someone can offer some insight for me.

It looks like I'm about to move from the US to Brunei, because of my wife's job. We're both PADI AOW certified, and I MAY have the opportunity to take the training to go pro, as a part time instructor.

I'm interested to know if people generally get their DM and just do that for a while before getting the instructor rating, or whether they just sign up for a full course and go from (A)OW to instructor.

Is there any advice you can offer to someone thinking of going pro.

Before anyone suggests it, I'm not doing it for the money, I know that instructors often barely scrape a living out of it. I'd be doing it because I love to dive and because for 3-4 years I wouldn't have to rely on bringing in a big wage. It just seemed like a great opportunity to do something I enjoy and cover my costs while also gaining a lot of experiences.

Thanks,

J.

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Internationally PADI is the largest dive association. I have been told by a scuba store owner that SSI is second, with NAUI third. This store owner recently switched to SSI from PADI, so that he could have more flexibility in structuring basic OW courses, and he ruled out NAUI due to SSI's success internationally. Food for thought. [Note: this scuttlebutt is hereby posted as of 11/17/2003, for future reference.]

I do not know what PADI's requirements are to enter an IDC. I thought you had to be a D/M or A/I to enter. NAUI has a way to enter their ITC for T/As who are not yet D/Ms by offering a "prep course." I have no idea what SSI's requirements are for an IDC/ITC. You will have to check. If you and your wife are moving soon, you probably want to wait to enroll in your next course, whether D/M or ITC, until you reach your destination.

If it is possible for you to enter an ITC/IDC without D/M-ing first, why not go for it? In the ITC/IDC, you will be assigned to help other instructors with students. You will not graduate from the ITC/IDC until you have developed good student skills, which normally are learned one-on-one first, with students, as a D/M.

You will probably have a 1 year time limit to successfully complete the ITC. If you do not accomplish all the requirements in that time, you would need to start over and pay a full fee again. Therein lies the real advantage of entering a D/M program first, and taking awhile to work hands-on with students. Are you a fast learner or a slow one?

Good luck in your scuba career! Wear a big wide hat, to keep the sun off you face. And some kind of dive skins to protect your skin. We envy you.

Genesis once bubbled...

I just can't see the value or purpose in "going pro" in today's environment. You will be asked to whore for the shop, and the shop is whoring for the manufacturers, with the entire thing being orchestrated by the shops, manufacturers and agencies.

Why would you want to become a part of that machine?

Ask yourself that first, and make sure you like the answer when you give it honest reflection, because that's what you're buying into.

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In the USA, gear sales drive the success of scuba stores, while teaching is discounted to a break-even or minimum wage level. You can probably make more money flipping burgers at a drive-in than teaching scuba in the USA. Unless you own the store, of course!

If you are located near a store, and the store needs instructors, then sometimes they will cut you a break on the fee for the ITC/IDC. You can "work off" the fee, and that is often the best financial arrangement.

Overseas, at exotic popular dive sites, gear sales are not normally the same issue as domestically. Resort certifications tend to be a major factor instead. Vacationing visitors normally are gear-rental driven.

I would try not to confuse apples with oranges when it comes to domestic versus international scuba employment.