longer alternate air hose?

I admit I still love my Octo-Z more then life itself but divemastering has introduced me into a whole new set of challenges. In basic open water classes I often demo the Out of air scenarios which I had to place a traditional octo back on my regs. May look funny on a dive outing in the keys to have an octo-z and a alternate air octo but hey who cares right as long as its efficient and it works for me?

The question is though in a dive master class I was working to help a candidate with it came up that in the gear exchange (as well as when I took my own DM class.) that the standards state one must buddy breathe off of one regulator. Since it does not state primary or alternate regulator it seems it would be more simple and logical to have a longer hose on a alternate air. My question is when you lengthen the hose I have seen many ways to eliminate having a hose arcing below your fins but I am wondering if I did place a longer alternate air hose on it how long would be good and if it did cause an arc how do you guys store it to keep streamlined and maintain easy to deploy in an emergency situation? Entanglements always a risk factor too so any suggestions?

Im only looking at the possibilities but open to suggestions.

I think this is exactly why people tend to put the longer hose on their primary... it's simply easier to manage this way if it's the one in your mouth. I did a quick test with my new long hose, though and it stows just as easily on a bungee necklace as the short hose octo does, so maybe you could do that. Bungy necklace your octo but route it under your arm and around your head like the "tech" long hose guys do with their primaries.

Typically 60-72 inches on the primary works well. For the secondary about 28-32 on the secondary should result in a streamlined hose configuration with no extra loop. In that case you donate the primary regulator which gives you enough space for donor and receiver to stay horizontal which facilitates a controlled ascent to the surface. Equipment Configuration | Global Underwater Explorers

40in does well for an octo; I wouldn't change it if you choose to go that route. Anything longer and it should go on your primary with an angle adapter, or wrapped around you in the hogarthian style if it is 5ft or longer.

There is a limit though, I find that 40-45in works well with an angle adapter on your primary. If tucks nicely under your upper arm. Anything between 45in to 5ft would require an angle adapter but would create a long loop of hose that would dangle below your waist, you wouldn't be able to manage it effectively under your arm; it would flop about.
Anything between 5ft to 9ft allows you to do a hog wrap, so no need for the angle adapter.

Both angle adapters and hog wraps require different sets of training techniques to allow you to
1) manage the hose top side
2) manage the hose underwater
i.e.
- deploying for air shares
- recovering
- restowing

I recommend tying a small bolt snap to long primary hoses so it's not flopping around during your walk and surface swims.

Having a hose longer than 40in on your secondary starts to get tricky in terms of hose management. Unless your hooking a 40in octo high on your left shoulder you're going to have a good bow length of hose that can flop about. For longer octo hoses, using bungee or wrapping and tucking it can work well, that is until you have to deploy then restow it.
You may say that it's ok to have difficulty restowing because if it's deployed you'll be surfacing anyway. But then you have to think about training logistics and accidental deployment. IMO all your gear should be easily deployed AND stowed while neutral underwater.

If you're going to use a longer primary hose you should ditch the 40in octo and go with a bungeed backup on a 22in or 24in hose OR you can go with an Air 2. Having two long hoses creates more hose management problems. I can see a 40in primary on angle adapter w/ 40in octo being doable, but unnecessary. Having a long hose (5ft or longer) will require you to do a hog wrap which would conflict with a 40in octo hose.

So to summarize, your logical choices are:
1) Air 2 OR 22-24in bungee backup w/
40in-45in primary on angle adapter or 5ft-9ft primary hose


2) 40in octo w/
26-30in primary hose (remember that long primaries will bow out)

3) 26-28in bungee backup w/ (bungee necklace is removable and not ziptied onto regulator)
40in-45in primary on angle adapter or 5ft-9ft primary hose
*this version allows you to buddy breath with both primary and back ups*
I personally think it's unnecessary redundancy

I would suggest this would be a better thread for the Advanced Scuba Discussions board although will put my two pence in.

In my own equipment and all the equipment I have worked with the primary second stage hose has always been shorter than the secondary second stage hose to allow it to be taken easily by another diver who is out of air without pulling you with it.

ed.hamilton1:

I would suggest this would be a better thread for the Advanced Scuba Discussions board although will put my two pence in.

In my own equipment and all the equipment I have worked with the primary second stage hose has always been shorter than the secondary second stage hose to allow it to be taken easily by another diver who is out of air without pulling you with it.

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I don't see how that makes sense. If the hose is shorter then that's less distance the OOA diver has to get away from you before you get pulled.
If you have a 28in hose or shorter, all the OOA diver has to do is take your primary and lean back; you're instantly getting yanked on a ride.

If the OOA diver has a hand on your primary, long hose or short, he's going to be able to get to it just fine.

fjpatrum:

I think this is exactly why people tend to put the longer hose on their primary... it's simply easier to manage this way if it's the one in your mouth. I did a quick test with my new long hose, though and it stows just as easily on a bungee necklace as the short hose octo does, so maybe you could do that. Bungy necklace your octo but route it under your arm and around your head like the "tech" long hose guys do with their primaries.

Click to expand...

Try that and see what happens when you donate the octo.

In some circles it was/is quite common to stuff or bungie longer hoses but that comes with two concerns. The first is restowing should you have to donate. Hard to do without help. The second is the potential for something to slip inside the stuffed loop end and get jammed when you try to pull the loop out.

DaleC:

Try that and see what happens when you donate the octo. In some circles it was/is quite common to stuff or bungie longer hoses but that comes with two concerns. The first is restowing should you have to donate. Hard to do without help. The second is the potential for something to slip inside the stuffed loop end and get jammed when you try to pull the loop out.

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I can't say re-stowing has ever been a problem with or without help. Here is a helpful illustration of a re-stow: Safety Drill (S-Drill) - Scuba - YouTube If you have things slipping all around fouling you gear maybe your kit is not optimized.

I went to a long hose on my primary (tucked into my weight belt when not deployed) and a bungied octo with a short hose a few years ago and will never go back to anything else. I always know where the octo is (under my chin), I can get it in zero-vis situations, and it never gets snagged on anything or comes loose. My dive partner always knows where my primary is (in the middle of my face) and, if suitably trained, can take it in a zero-vis situation once we make physical contact (follow my arm up to my face, take reg). The extra length on my primary means that I can tend to issues that my partner has (e.g., they may be low on air because they are panicked because of snagged gear, dropped weight, etc) while they are breathing my gas - try that without a long hose. On SB I may be preaching to the choir, but anything other than a bungied octo and long primary doesn't make sense to me.

To the OP: Are you considering making a specific change in your gear just to do the DM gear exchange? I wouldn't. Stick with something you know well. But if you are using the Octo-Z and have a 24" hose on your primary reg, that isn't a real good configuration. If you ever have to donate gas to anyone, you will find you guys have to manage the subsequent ascent almost mask-to-mask, and it isn't comfortable. I tell all our students who are interested in integrated air sources that they really ought to have at least a 36" hose on their primary. Of course, this results in a huge, ugly loop of hose out behind them, but the short hose just doesn't work. You CAN sometimes route a 40" hose under your arm, if you put a right angle adapter on it.

A longer (5' or 7') hose for the gear exchange is handy, but I wouldn't recommend going to it just for the skill. If you use a 5' hose, you may be able to route it the way the 7' hose is typically routed -- down along your right side, under you arm, across the front of your chest, and then behind your neck to come into your mouth from the right. People with barrel or wide chests often aren't very comfortable that way, though -- 5' is just not quite long enough. The 7' hose routes the same way, except that, if you don't have a canister or pocket on the right hip under which to catch the hose, you have to fold the excess into a loop and confine it under your waist belt.