Have you ever done anything on a dive that you KNEW you weren't supposed to?

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TSandM

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The news of another OW diver dying in a cave just made me shake my head, and wonder what was going through the diver's mind, as he prepared to do something he knew darned well he was not supposed to do. And that made me reflect on whether I had ever done that, and what was going through MY mind when I did.

I can think of two circumstances that involve a cave. One was in the BVI, on a dive along some walls. The guide had told us that there was a small cave in one of them -- he described the cave as being about 20 feet long, with no branching, and no silt. He said he had been in it, and we could go in if we wanted. I knew I wasn't supposed to go in an overhead environment, but given the very benign description (no branches, so no way to get lost, no silt, and big enough to turn around in all the way to the end) I took the chance. The cave was precisely as described, and I enjoyed swimming to the end of it, and felt a wistful sadness that it didn't go any further. I have since read several accounts of people swimming into what appeared to be very benign spaces like that, and getting silted out and almost not finding the exit. You could not have done that in this place, and the guide had told me that, but I had no independent knowledge of it, and no skills to deal with the situation if had not been as advertised. I made an assessment of the risks involved, based on the information I had, and concluded they were acceptable. At least I did have some information . . .

In the other case, we ran line to a jump line in a cave and dove the jump line. We did not do a jump; we had our own primary line to open water, tied into the jump line. We knew we weren't really supposed to dive that line -- the rules exist to keep relatively novice cave divers out of places that are small, silty, or delicate (although this passage is none of those things) -- but we did it anyway, and we did it several times before we got a higher cert level and could do it legally. Again, I had a lot of information about the passage before we went in it, and my first time was with someone who had done this already. I had quite a bit of cave diving experience in the area, and in that system, before we did this (I think I was at about 75 or 80 cave dives at that point). We broke the letter of no rule, but violated the spirit of a couple.

In either case, had I come to grief, the discussion would have said, "She was diving above her training." And in both cases, I was convinced I had done my due diligence and what I planned to do was safe. I'm not sure, looking back on both, that I was wrong, but that's what I would have said to someone who tried to dissuade me beforehand.

I have difficulty seeing how an OW diver can do the same job of convincing himself that it's safe, to enter a real "cave" with branching tunnels, depth and silt, but I would imagine they go through some kind of similar job of talking themselves into it.

What about the rest of you? Done something you knew you weren't supposed to do? How did you deal with it mentally?
 
Very good topic. I have an odd history with diving, having gone through pre-scuba in the military some 20 years ago (think of it as very intensive ground school - I was one of two selected but left my unit before receiving orders to school) and having done a number uncertified dives in my early years before coming back to it because my wife got the bug. That leaves me with a lot of technical knowledge (I KNOW what to do and what not to do) and what I perceive to be good problem solving skills in general (again, much due to outdorsmanship and military experience)) but limited practical application. In that light, I am simply AMAZED at certain actions I observe, particularly in Mexico, and all at the behest of an instructor or DM. Examples: conducting initial OW dives in excess of 80 feet (to be fair, it was my wife's third dive in her entire life and the instructor was her buddy (I was kind of solo), but, COME ON PEOPLE!); wreck penetration (again, during inital OW certification dives); and my favorite, multiple blind main line jumps and disregard for 1/3 / 2/3 rule during cave dives in the Cenotes (sure, the DM knew where he was, but I didn't, and what if the DM bought the farm on the spot???).

People do the wrong thing all of the time - the problem is that the water has a very low tolerance for stupidity.

My Respectful $.02.

S/F,

db
 
So, db, what was going through your mind when you did the blind jumps? What was going through your wife's mind when she followed the instructor into the wreck? It's the mental process that gets people into situations where they get into trouble that I'm really curious about. We all know people do things that are generally regarded as imprudent at best; I want to get at how folks convince themselves to do it.
 
My answer, unfortunately has to be yes. To be sure, my offenses in this regard have been minor compared to what I have seen others do in my limited experience.

Example; while on a night dive in Utila, Honduras I was hanging out near one of the DMs, who was about to take my buddy and I to find a nice dark spot where we could turn off our lights and acclimate so to view the bioluminescence of the many organisms in the area. Before doing this, a diver swam up (no buddy), very unhappy, shaking an obviously dead light. I reached into my pocket and took out my spare, switched it on and handed it to him, and was treated to a big smile as he swam away. The DM and my buddy and I proceeded to the dark spot, switched off our lights and stayed there amazed by the bioluminescence for the next 30 minutes!

The thing is, I knew that when I handed out my spare, the rule is "dive's over - ascend". I did not, knowing that the DM had a spare as did my dive buddy (my daughter - 13 at the time). Nobody else on the dive, however, had a spare light! I rarely if ever see divers with a spare light on night dives, but always carry one myself and ensure my daughter (now 18) has one as well.

Not as serious as heading into an overhead environment without training (both my daughter and I took cavern before diving the cenotes - and watched all the o/w divers heading in with cave guides during our course) but it illustrates the point - breaking the rules is the norm out there based on what I have seen, not the exception unfortunately.
 
I've misjudged situations and gotten through them, but looking back I realize things could have gone bad real fast. I was lucky.

Most recently....about a year and a half ago, I had shot a nice fat snapper free diving on the reef wall. I was using a 100 foot floatline and breakaway. The fish dove for the blue over the wall before I could grab the line. Once I got it, the fish was stuck in the hole and the line wouldn't budge.

My son was on the boat and we had two sets of scuba gear but I said, "no worries, I'll just drop down and get it out of the hole".
As I was dropping down with no depth gauge or timing device...(smart, no?) it dawned on me that the whole 100 feet of floatline and 18 feet of shooting line, not to mention a taut bungee line was pointed straight down. As I got to the bottom the line went inside an little cave like structure. I crawled in and realized the fish was above and behind me. My tank was bumping into rock, I was grabbing the shaft and trying to dislodge the fish.....finally got it out.
Slowly ascended....no depth gauger or timer......and did what seemed like about a 5 minute safety stop. I still had 110 bar in the tank. I was breathing pretty hard wrestling the fish out of the hole.

But, why didn't I tell my son to come with me? That was pretty stupid. A lot of things could have gone wrong. I'm supposed to be smarter than that by now.
 
Here's my story.

Had not been Cave certified very long. Diving Jackson Blue with more experienced divers. Plan was to dive the mainline then come back through the Horseshoe. At the time this was not a circuit the way it is now. This would require a visual jump back to the goldline at the top of the Horseshoe. I agreed to this thinking the visual would be a 3 foot stretch back to an obvious goldline. (First mistake!)

So we go back up the Horseshoe (First time in there) and the line ends. Buddy signals OK , swims off over a pile of rocks and drops down behind them. Great. He did have the decency to O.K. the ceiling with his light so I could see where to go. Double great!.

So here I am swimming in a strange cave with no line in sight heading for a light on the ceiling. I knew at the time it was a totally stupid thing to be doing.Fortunately it all worked out.

I don't dive with that person any more.
 
Ever since I was certified, every time I'm near the Yucatan I go to the cenotes (starting, I believe, with my 4th dive after OW). This is a place I do not belong, but my greed keeps taking me there. What may be scarier, is that Dive Ops take anyone who wants to go. I felt very safe every time I've gone, and the DM's going on the trips seem to have an excellent track record... but it only takes one incident to turn all of that around. Will I do it again? Yes, in 3 more months even, but until I get the training, I'll always know I should already have it.
 
I too have been in the cenotes, and the first time, was in Dos Ojos with Rescue Diver cert (and also ice diver specialty). I knew at the time that it was beyond my certification level, but didn't believe it was beyond my ability. The plan was to dive the main line with an experienced DM, we stuck to the plan and everything was fine. I wouldn't even call this a trust me dive, since I was monitoring my own depth, and time, and could have turned back and followed the line back out at any time.

So, even though it was beyond my certification level, and since I am comfortable in an overhead environment (ice diving), I didn't see a problem doing it...and still don't
 
The news of another OW diver dying in a cave just made me shake my head, and wonder what was going through the diver's mind, as he prepared to do something he knew darned well he was not supposed to do. And that made me reflect on whether I had ever done that, and what was going through MY mind when I did.

I can think of two circumstances that involve a cave. One was in the BVI, on a dive along some walls. The guide had told us that there was a small cave in one of them -- he described the cave as being about 20 feet long, with no branching, and no silt. He said he had been in it, and we could go in if we wanted. I knew I wasn't supposed to go in an overhead environment, but given the very benign description (no branches, so no way to get lost, no silt, and big enough to turn around in all the way to the end) I took the chance. The cave was precisely as described, and I enjoyed swimming to the end of it, and felt a wistful sadness that it didn't go any further. I have since read several accounts of people swimming into what appeared to be very benign spaces like that, and getting silted out and almost not finding the exit. You could not have done that in this place, and the guide had told me that, but I had no independent knowledge of it, and no skills to deal with the situation if had not been as advertised. I made an assessment of the risks involved, based on the information I had, and concluded they were acceptable. At least I did have some information . . .

In the other case, we ran line to a jump line in a cave and dove the jump line. We did not do a jump; we had our own primary line to open water, tied into the jump line. We knew we weren't really supposed to dive that line -- the rules exist to keep relatively novice cave divers out of places that are small, silty, or delicate (although this passage is none of those things) -- but we did it anyway, and we did it several times before we got a higher cert level and could do it legally. Again, I had a lot of information about the passage before we went in it, and my first time was with someone who had done this already. I had quite a bit of cave diving experience in the area, and in that system, before we did this (I think I was at about 75 or 80 cave dives at that point). We broke the letter of no rule, but violated the spirit of a couple.

In either case, had I come to grief, the discussion would have said, "She was diving above her training." And in both cases, I was convinced I had done my due diligence and what I planned to do was safe. I'm not sure, looking back on both, that I was wrong, but that's what I would have said to someone who tried to dissuade me beforehand.

I have difficulty seeing how an OW diver can do the same job of convincing himself that it's safe, to enter a real "cave" with branching tunnels, depth and silt, but I would imagine they go through some kind of similar job of talking themselves into it.

What about the rest of you? Done something you knew you weren't supposed to do? How did you deal with it mentally?

I remember back in the 80's I did a beach dive from the Pumphouse at the Palm Beach INlet, to go spearfishing....the seas were 6 to 8 feet, and we had a way to hide out of the ways in getting in to the water by the pumphouse, and then handholds of rock to get us into the nav channel for some spearfishing.....the first thing I did WRONG, aside from diving in seas like this, was using crappy loaned gear, with a weight belt I had to tie on to myself. We never used BC's back then, but the weightbelt made it easier to stay on the bottom and pull along the rocks, when fighting the big tidal current.....35 minutes into a very hard working dive, in 40 foot deep water, my steel 72 was half full....it was turn time....My buddy saw the turn dive signal, and we both turned...he pointed out a huge fish just as we turned, I went to get it with pole spear, and then just before shooting the fish, looked around for my buddy and he was gone....He knew the handholds, not me, and the current was about 3.5 mph going out of the inlet.....I hauled butt for where I thought he had headed, but in 4 minutes or so realized I was off the mark, as depth was now 45 to 50 feet, and the nav channel was not that deep where I was supposed to be....
I gave up on trying to navigate, and went to the surface to see where I was....I found I was about 200 yards out of the mouth of the inlet, and moving fast further.....I got my bearings, and went back to the bottom with 700 psi.....Made it to about 75 yards off the surfing area near the pumphouse, and then ran OOA, which I was expecting...I needed to get as far sideways to the Inlet outflow as I could, and as close to the beach as possible, which I had done, using the ripples in the sand as directionals. As I did my free ascent, I began questioning what I decided was my second big mistake, hanging on to 2 big groupers on my belt...and the polespear. With the polespear in hand, I did not have a free hand to untie the weight belt with, so the surface swim was now more problematic than it should have been. I was using a borrowed flexible hose snorkel, and once to the surface, it should have been easy to snorkel in, even with 8 foot surf, but the lousy flexible hose snorkel was so floppy, that it would not keep a vertical direction, and would suck water in....Complicating this, I was using the monster FarahFins...the ones with the ankle braces because they were so stiff. They were good for a sprint, but this was a long distance swim agaisnt a big current, and at the required pace, they were like wood boards with no flex, and very wasteful of leg energy....My legs were getting very tired.


By the time I hit the area where the best surfers were hanging out, looking for waves to catch, one of them paddled up to me and "asked if I was drowning"...of course, this annoyed me, and I said I was fine....Yet one more mistake :)


About 1 minute later, as my legs were really becoming jello, a huge wave caught the farah fins with me swimming on my back because the snorkel was so crummy...the wave picked my feet up over my head, and I began a minute long sommersault underwater.... I did finally let go of the polespear, and the weightbelt and fish actually got ripped off.....not my doing, so I can't say I did this part right.

After the minute ( probably 10 seconds, just saying what it felt like) of somersaults, I realized my legs would not really work, and I was thinking about just how I was going to make it to the surface.....and then suddenly, the ocean dropped down below my neck, and my head was out of the water--and I could breathe again...for about 5 breaths....which was nice...but then the next wave had me under again for a while.....When it subsided, I was to weak to stand up with my tank on, so I began pulling the harness off.... A mother and a little girl walked up to the shore where I was about to crawl out, and the child says to the mother, "Mommy, is that man drowning"....I said, "no, I'm just tired"...and then crawled up on to the beach pulling my tank, and then sat there for 3 minutes before standing.....When I did finally stand, I saw Ronnie and Tony looking for me way out in the area away from the inlet mouth....clearly sure I had been taken out to sea....and not sure what to do about it.


Back in the day, I made some incredible mistakes.....I did learn from them.
  1. I would never again use a flexible hose snorkel --If I thought I might need one, I would always have a good freediving snorkel from that day on...
  2. I decided fins needed efficiency, not 6 second sprint power...this was the last time I used the Farah Fins
  3. I would never tie a weight belt on again.
  4. I did quite a bit of freediving in big surf waves, so if I ever did do an insane surf entry again, it would be well executed and without somersaults.
  5. I decided that if I ever did really need help, I would not refuse it. Fortunately, a scenario like that has not occurred since.

I never did learn the part about not diving in big waves though :)
 
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