Logged dives that "count"

This comes up often. For PADI DM course you need 40 logged dives to start the course. For these courses that require a set number of dives, who knows what constitutes a dive that "counts". I've heard 15 feet for 20 minutes. Or 20 feet for 20 minutes. Or a certain SI in between 2 dives. Or solo dives do/don't count. I am not seeking opinions on what dives one thinks count, and not what dives you would include in your log-- ei. "I log a 5 minute dive if there was an equipment problem I had to solve because that's important". Is anything written down anywhere from any of the agencies that is official? Or is it just a vague guidline for an instructor to see that you actually have dived a lot? I know that once in a while, PADI is a bit vague.........

As I am not an instructor/DM, I log all of my dives, in whatever cheapo notebook I have at the time.

Sometimes that means that I write the basic figures for depth and time, as well as site, date, time, exposure suit, gas, gas consumption, type of dive.
During my DM training I would often have a page in my notebook that listed the bare bones of 5-10 dives, but overleaf a more complex log of events for 1 dive that totalled 2 pages.
Perhaps this was because I was repeatedly diving the same site, with little change from previous logs, or I was assisting a course, therefore I would log for example, 'OW 3'. My more DM specific notes remained separate from my dive log notebook and went in to my DM notebook.

Only things that need logging are logged, whether that's because I learned something new, had a problem to overcome, saw something exciting, identified a new (to me) critter etc.
The depth and length aren't really of any consequence as I hope my dives are of a reasonable length. For any dive that is cut short I would probably find myself with something to log about, be that personal or buddy's problem, weather etc. Few of my dives are less than 45mins, but a 70min 5m max dive is just as worthwhile logging as a 20min 30m max dive with an air hippo.
5 mins in a quarry with an unfixable free flow might get a log, it might just get a verbal discussion, and be logged as part of the following dive.
It is logged to make a record of the experience, what happened, why, and what was learned, not to score a woo hoo now I have 50 dives point.
The more inspiring dives necessitate a logging more thoroughly.

I imagine most instructors still maintain a record of all their tedious 5m OW/DSD dives, is it a requirement?

Hopefully I will always find something of interest to log in some form after every dive, If I don't it may be time to take up another leisure activity. The logs are always interesting to revisit to re read, and to provide an idea of what exposure suit, weight I might use, or gas I might consume.

To conclude,
Log all dives, all logged dives count.
But, if a potential divemaster candidate is struggling to determine if they have 40 or more dives I would strongly suggest that they just do some more diving.

We know that PADI changed the minimum from 20 to 40 so that DMs could complete the required number of 60 dives more easily during the course, instead of increasing it so that students would join the course with more experience. Silly PADI

Nic

Training dives through PADI require a 20 minute bottom time or 50 cf of gas. Non training dives are not governed by agencies, so you as an individual will determine what constitutes a dive.
If I have a DM candidate that I have never dived with and see something in their log that looks odd, I'll ask them about the dive. If it appears that they were just getting a dive for numbers ... sitting on the platform for 20 minutes.. I may reconsider their application. If it was a learning experience it could be 3 minutes.

TMHeimer,

Look at your PADI Instructor Manual (IM) - you have access to the 2012 IM. Yes it's "vague", but this is the definition in your IM as to what a logged dive has to have for course requirements:

Logged Dives
To credit as a logged dive for course requirements, the dive takes place in open water and specific information about the dive (i.e. date, time, location, depth, profile, etc.) is recorded. Training dives for PADI courses (in open water) qualify as logged dives.

The only place in the IM where depth/time/air used is specifically mentioned is in relation to Open Water certification dives:

6. During open water dives, have divers spend the majority of time at 5 metres/15 feet or greater, and breathe at least 1400 litres or 50 cubic feet of compressed gas or remain submerged for at least 20 minutes.

Bill

I actually log every dive, including the ones in a pool when I am in there for a significant amount of time, playing with new gear, taking photos of students, etc. However, I track both the total number of times I was under water sucking compressed air and the open water dives. So as an example my log might show something like 146/89. Meaning I have done a total of 146 under water but 89 of them were open water. So why do I log pool dives you might ask when it isn't in open water and it is at most 12 feet deep? There are times when I spend well over an hour under water in a pool working buoyancy, new gear, new camera, etc. and I see that as significant. But I also know that those types of dives don't count to anyone except me.

I will admit that once I get significantly more dives in the open water i will probably stop tracking all the play time in the pool.

Id say so long as you are with in standards as mentioned above that you should be ok. I have heard others in the past though instruct divers how to "Pad" their diving with things like just go to 20 feet and sit on a rock for 20 minutes. Though this is within the guidelines it really does nothing to help ones diving ability.

What one should really do is strive to get the most out of each dive. But just to let you know most dive shops look at the detailed specifics but dont be surprised if you go into a dive shop with one of the old schoolers and have them read your logs and tell you that you were not under long enough or some other reason he wont sign off.

Over all though for your personal record as mine too I log any dive I want. Aquarium dives too as I need to take in to account things like did I feed the eel or did he refuse to eat. Any behavior thats changed like if an aquatic animal has become aggresive or not and if so when was the last time I recall him being behaved so we can attempt to isolate any problems causing the behavior change. I log pool dives too because if there should be a student having troubles passing but does so and later attempts to come back on the shop I DM for and say we did not train them right I can point out the particular problems the student may have been having.

Then if you take and do a dive and then a month later decide to go diving again but dont remember how much weight you used you can look back on the dive. There is so much information that can be stored in a logged dive I could go on for quiet a while but for the sake of time I wont.

Just try to make each dive more then 15 feet for more then 20 minutes and you should be ok as far as loggable dives and do them for fun not to just get that magic number you need. Hope this helps

Note..this is what I do. Not telling others what to do.

For me..open water dives at 20 mins count. 5 mins.."no".

Don't count pool dives.

I count Aquarium or specialty/unusual dives like that. Regardless of depth.

If I did solo dives, they would count.

My training dives count. As do those where I assist with training in a class.

Hawkwood:

TMHeimer,

Look at your PADI Instructor Manual (IM) - you have access to the 2012 IM. Yes it's "vague", but this is the definition in your IM as to what a logged dive has to have for course requirements:

Logged Dives
To credit as a logged dive for course requirements, the dive takes place in open water and specific information about the dive (i.e. date, time, location, depth, profile, etc.) is recorded. Training dives for PADI courses (in open water) qualify as logged dives.

The only place in the IM where depth/time/air used is specifically mentioned is in relation to Open Water certification dives:

6. During open water dives, have divers spend the majority of time at 5 metres/15 feet or greater, and breathe at least 1400 litres or 50 cubic feet of compressed gas or remain submerged for at least 20 minutes.

Bill

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Thanks Bill. From your post we can determine that only OW Cert. dives require any sort of specific minimum depth, time, etc. Any other dive you log after that just needs specific information logged, but no specific requirements regarding that information. I am surprised there is nothing more specific.

I think your answer when asked this question should be something like this: Fifty dives is NOT many dives. If you are having to count something that might be questionable, you may want to get a little more experience. It would certinly make you a better DM.

herbdb:

I think your answer when asked this question should be something like this: Fifty dives is NOT many dives. If you are having to count something that might be questionable, you may want to get a little more experience. It would certinly make you a better DM.

Click to expand...

Not at all sure what you mean. I was simply asking a technical question, one that has been asked often on SB and until now has to my knowledge not been answered. I just used the 40 required for DM as an example. Nothing at all to do with 50 dives not being many, how "good" a diver is, or someone's ability as a DM. In fact, I don't believe I personally have ever been asked the question.