Wetsuit Layering

[Scubanoobi]

Looking for some advice on wetsuit layering. I have a 7mm full for my local diving (Canada) and 2mm shorty for warmer waters. I did some diving down south this winter in 76/77 degree water and got a little cold by end of the first dive (50 mins) and middle of the second dive (50 mins) with the 2mm shorty.

I know everybody is different, but if I were to layer the shorty with either a 1mm skin or 5mm vest/hood, which would keep me warmer and would it really make a difference?

I'm planning on doing more diving in 80 degree water later this year and want to be comfortable.

Looking for any advice - 1mm full skin or 5mm vest/hood to go with the shorty?

[kierentec]

5mm hooded vest will make a huge difference, the skin, not so much.


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[fjpatrum]

Definitely go with the hood... you lose most of your heat through your head so adding the hood really makes a difference. I dive with one every dive.

[g1138]

Like fjpatrum said, you lose most of your heat through your head. A hood makes a big difference.
A dive skin does not. In fact I get much colder with a dive skin, since it soaks more water and stays soaked. So during your surface interval you're freezing from evaporation.

Go with a Hood with a long bib or a hooded vest. In your situation I'd recommend a hooded vest for your 1 piece 7mm suit.
You can layer it under the 7mm or over the 7mm, which ever is more comfortable.

Here in Monterey (52F waters) I see more divers layering it over, since it doesn't add to the constriction of your velcro neck seal.
With a regular hood you'll want to tuck it under your neck seal.

[dumpsterDiver]

Go with a hood. For 80 degree water my choice would be a full one-piece suit (2-3 mm) with back zipper. Sun, sting and thermal protection. .

I know many people wear shorty suits, but I learned a very hard lesson as a young solo diver.... when your legs get a little cool, the muscles .. especially the hamstrings have a tendancy to cramp up. I think it is actually safer to wear long pants and a vest and no wetsuit sleeves.

[kazbanz]

after getting a nasty coral scratch by being a bit careless I only wear a full body 3mm suit in tropical waters nowadays. Tat and if a tiny beit cool I waer a thermal vest under -Just going to a full body 3mm might be enough

[mattpatton]

As everyone else has recomended, the hood is the way to go. You're probably only a little bit of neoprene away from staying warm on your dive. You could probably add only a Hood, or a 2mm top and feel much warmer. You may not necessarily need a 5mm top with attached hood. But, adding a hood or a 2mm top with attached hood will probably do the trick.

[Scubanoobi]

Thanks everyone!

[landlocked!!]

Ahh...the popular myth of loosing most of your heat through your head.

[dfx]

Ahh...the popular myth of loosing most of your heat through your head.

For reference (because that's what I've been told as well): Scientists debunk myth that most heat is lost through head | Science | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/dec/17/medicalresearch-humanbehaviour)

[oldflounder]

I like the Lavacore line. They have pants, shirts, vests, hood, socks and a full suit. You can mix and match as layers under your wetsuit for warmer/coldish water temps and I use some of these as layers under my drysuit. Supposedly the same thermal value as a 2+mm suit and no buoyancy characteristic. They are loose fitting so you don't get all that constriction of the chest when you layer with neoprene. It isn't cheap but you can use it throughout the different seasons if you buy enough of the pieces.

[garydemos]

For reference (because that's what I've been told as well): Scientists debunk myth that most heat is lost through head | Science | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/dec/17/medicalresearch-humanbehaviour)
Ah yes - where would we be without the scientists to enlighten us. Adam or Eve must have been a scientist - how else would the human species have survived all these thousands of years without having scientists helping us know about why things are as they are?
OR - you could just assume that since your whole body is covered with exposure protection except for your head, that covering that one part that is still exposed might make a real difference in how warm you feel. Of course I don't have any scientific evidence or testing to support that so it is only a wild guess (using my common sense) - not usable for anything other than entertainment.
Please excuse the facetious response - lol. I really do have a great appreciation for education and training. I just get a little annoyed sometimes because we tend to defer to the scientist as being the end-all know-all source of truth, when in fact they are simply people like everyone else who are subject to influence and limited like anyone else by their level of experience and their own personal intellect. Scientists have come to plenty of lame-brain conclusions over the years. I think we all need to put more confidence in our own experience and good common sense. And - get plenty of training and education along the way. That is what I love about this forum - I have learned far more from reading about all the experiences you all have had than I could ever learn from a class or textbook. Add the formal training along with the experiences of others and that is really valuable.

[dfx]

OR - you could just assume that since your whole body is covered with exposure protection except for your head, that covering that one part that is still exposed might make a real difference in how warm you feel. Of course I don't have any scientific evidence or testing to support that so it is only a wild guess (using my common sense) - not usable for anything other than entertainment.

Which actually happens to be exactly what that article says: you lose most of your body heat through your head if the rest of your body is already covered properly. The common myth omits the bolded part, which makes it untrue.

[Onewolf]

When water is in the high 70s and I am doing more than 1 dive I prefer a 3mm full wetsuit.

[fjpatrum]

Ahh...the popular myth of loosing most of your heat through your head.


For reference (because that's what I've been told as well): Scientists debunk myth that most heat is lost through head | Science | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/dec/17/medicalresearch-humanbehaviour)


While I'm sure the scientific studies are highly accurate /sarcasm (can't actually read the study based upon the link) it's pretty clear that there are a couple of factors that lend more than a little credence to the fact that you lose more heat from your head than other areas with similar surface area. Primarily the fact that most of the blood in your head is on the surface, not buried deep in muscle tissue. Add to that the fact that one's head is usually not protected from the elements the same way (as the article suggested, though without any scientific data to back it up) and it's more than obvious why people say you lose most of your heat from your head. Also consider that your respiration is (generally) going to be a source of moisture in and around your face/head. We all know that moisture/water is a better conductor than "air" and you add that little bit of excess heat loss, assuming you're not in an otherwise highly humid environment, in which case moisture from respiration probably wouldn't have any significant effect. (It may not be significant anyway, just another hypothesis).

Having sat in cold environments with and without a hat, it makes a difference. Having dived with and without a hood, it definitely makes a difference. I choose to believe the "myth" and cover my head when I'm cold. It works.

[g1138]

I believe the article states that the rate of heat loss is the same for every part of your body. So when you say you lose the "most heat in your head" that is true in the sense when it's the only part that's uncovered. When you say it in reference to you lose heat at a faster rate in your head than with the rest of your body, that is false.

The myth is debunked for those who choose to interpret the phrase with the latter meaning.

If you really wanted to pick my bones then I could wear just a shorty and say I'm losing the most heat in my head. You'll have all rights to correct me then.

[fjpatrum]

I believe the article states that the rate of heat loss is the same for every part of your body. So when you say you lose the "most heat in your head" that is true in the sense when it's the only part that's uncovered. When you say it in reference to you lose heat at a faster rate in your head than with the rest of your body, that is false.

The myth is debunked for those who choose to interpret the phrase with the latter meaning.

If you really wanted to pick my bones then I could wear just a shorty and say I'm losing the most heat in my head. You'll have all rights to correct me then.
True enough, that's what the article says. Unfortunately the link to the original study is broken so we can't see how the study was conducted without further searching that I'm, quite frankly, too lazy to bother with at this point. That's why I explained the reasons people believe there was a rate difference, rather than just exposure protection difference.

I'm mostly being argumentative for the sake of argument. I don't happen to believe the study is accurate based upon my own (albeit anecdotal) experiences and "studies" of people in various environments but I mostly took offense to the original "attitude" I read into landlocked!!'s post. Whether the attitude was intended or not, it ruffled me so I responded. It happens.

Debunking myths is a good thing, even if I happen to choose ignorance occasionally.

[rmh84]

Add me to the full 3mm club. I really do like being covered up against accidental scratches/touches - especially after the debacle that was putting my hand in a sponge last year (nearly a week of a non-functional hand and 2 days of nearly unbrearable pain... no thanks).

[landlocked!!]

....... Primarily the fact that most of the blood in your head is on the surface.....

Uhh, no. For not for most of us LOL :D

[kierentec]

For reference (because that's what I've been told as well): Scientists debunk myth that most heat is lost through head | Science | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/dec/17/medicalresearch-humanbehaviour)

"The researchers also have some unwelcome news for those hoping to survive the festive excesses by turning to hangover cures. After an extensive review of evidence for the curative benefits of bananas, aspirin, vegemite, fructose, glucose, artichoke, prickly pear and the drugs tropisetron and tolfenamic acid, they conclude that none has been proven to cure hangovers. "No scientific evidence ... supports any cure or effective prevention for alcohol hangovers," they state. "The most effective way to avoid a hangover is to consume alcohol only in moderation or not at all."



these guys have obviously never sat at 20' for a half our on O2 or had a nurse/doctor friend administer IV fluids after a fun night.

while I do not doubt that you may not lose most of your body heat through your head, you are still better off covering it than adding more neoprene to the rest of you.



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[j yaeger]

120332go with the hood!!!!!

[Token]

Anybody who's put on a hat to warm up on a chilly day knows its value. Ditto in the water.

You can quibble to your heart's content about 'most'....