[HELP] Stripped HP balance plug on APEKS FSR

[Zeke XA3]

I have been trying to service an APEKS FSR

I tired to take the HP balance plug out of the 1st stage but it would not budge, so i soaked it in a bath and tried again only this time with the first application of strength it stripped the allen key slot. Now the 6mm key just slowly turns in the slot.

Ideas on how i can remove this plug? Ordering a new one is not a problem but i still need to get the old one out!

[JKPAO]

An easy out!?(name of a tool) Do you have any pics?
There are many ways to get it out, getting it out with care is the issue.
See you topside! John

[Fishpie]

You could try an "easy out" but you might have to drill the hole a bit deeper to get it to bite.
Order a new part.....but you are going to have to get the old assembly out sometime.

Ask the engineer....there's bound to be something onboard that'll get it out.

[Zeke XA3]

120624
Will get a photo tomorrow, but this is nearly the model but the top is the same, the 6mm hex hole at the top is what has stripped. I know the part is FUBARed just need to get it out without damaging the rest of the body

Im the trainee engineer on board so i know nearly every tool we have but will ask just in case

[Dsix36]

If an easy-out is not available or won't work, I have a trick that has solved this problem many times.

Drill a hole all the way through the plug. Drive an allen wrench (hex key) into the hole and use it to turn the plug out.

Obviously you will need the rights size of drill bit and use a lot of care.

[Zeke XA3]

wont the allen key just strip a round hole anyway?

[Dsix36]

wont the allen key just strip a round hole anyway?

Not if you drill the right sized hole for the allen key. It has to be slightly smaller so that a hammer is need to drive the key into it. As the key is driven in, it cuts corners into the plug that it will grab. I generally either cut of an allen key (hard to hammer it in if it is a 90 degree key) or use one that is fitted to a socket drive.

[mfalco]

Get something like this:
Amazon.com: Alden 8440P Pro Grabit Broken Bolt and Damaged Screw Extractor 4 Piece Kit: Home Improvement (http://www.amazon.com/Alden-8440P-Grabit-Damaged-Extractor/dp/B001A4CWHO)

I think it is the same as an "easy out". I've used them before, and the work well. I once stripped a bolt on my motorcycle, and these saved me.

[awap]

When you do find a way to get a tool to grab again, try more finesse and less force. Hot and cold treatments will loosen up any corrosion and also get expansion coefficients working in your favor. Hot body and cold plug.

If you have the access, get your easy out in place, than soak the entire reg in hot water. With everything at 140F or so, a shot of liquid nitrogen on the plug should get some seperation. If it does not come out firly easily, repeat the treatment rather than adding more force.

[Kunundrum]

When this has happened to me with port plugs, I used a Torqs head bit that fit in the hole, they seem to be a little bit larger than than the Allen and grab the corners (may need to tap in with a hammer). and was able to extract it that way.

[markr]

I've never done this with a regulator but on other mechanical assemblies with the same problem I've been able to get plugs out by using a Dremel tool with an abrasive cutting disk to cut a screwdriver slot into the damaged part. Cut the slot as big as you can without damaging the threads. Take your time and don't get the plug hot. Then take the biggest screwdriver that will fit into the slot you cut and try to spin the plug out. You may need to put pliers or vice grips on the shaft of the screwdriver.

[Druid]

When this has happened to me with port plugs, I used a Torqs head bit that fit in the hole, they seem to be a little bit larger than than the Allen and grab the corners (may need to tap in with a hammer). and was able to extract it that way.

This is what I would do, it's worked for me in the past.

[j2s]

Whatever method you try, definitely have it serviced/tested afterwards....Metal filings in the housing, distorted threads, micro fractures in the housing....Pay close attention to the leak test and 'cracking' procedure if YOU rebuild it........Apeks 1st stages are well made, but everything has limits...they were not made for drilling [and the heat/expansion that it generates] pounding, or sudden changes from hot to cold......

[Zeke XA3]

Ok well i have bought this

POWERBUILT 6pc Easy Out Set (http://www.vektools.com.au/powerbuilt-hand-tools/powerbuilt-6pc-easy-out-set-p-5912.html)

and it looks like this

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/ZekeXA3/Regs/DSCF5124.jpg

So will go with plan A being

Soak in 100% vin in Sonic bath, hot
Soak in cold water
Re soak hot water in sonic bath
Attach easy out
Pray
Unscrew


J2S since this is for a service it will be fully tested.

[dumpsterDiver]

Take it to the dive shop for service. When you get "the call" scream and yell and demand that they fix the problem, because OBVIOUSLY your not the DA who stripped it...

[Zeke XA3]

Take it to the dive shop for service. When you get "the call" scream and yell and demand that they fix the problem, because OBVIOUSLY your not the DA who stripped it...

I am the dive shop (well independent instructor servicing gear as a self employed business)!

[Fishpie]

Been using it as a hammer to open the engine intake strainer in the bilge?

[Zeke XA3]

Yeah just a few scratches on it already! And they are ALL from before i got my hands on it! (Took before photos just to make sure nothing came back to me!) Its a year overdue for its annual service already.

[ferris213]

From my experience the straight fluted easy outs http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=straight%20flute%20screw%20extractors&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CEQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.icscuttingtools.com%2Fcatalog %2Fpage_205.pdf&ei=J0CKT5-IOpDKmAXGpI3CCQ&usg=AFQjCNGLuZuGyXHXZXGEQNMSBvLBRBZyxQ&cad=rja are much more effective than the spiral fluted. They are essentially a tapered square profile with sharp edges. You hammer them into the hole rather than screwing them in.

The other thing that helps, though they can be hard to source is using left handed drill bits Amazon.com: Irwin 30520 5 Piece Left Hand Cobalt 5/64-Inch to 19/64-Inch Cobalt Twist Drill Bit Assortment: Home Improvement (http://www.amazon.com/Irwin-30520-Cobalt-64-Inch-Assortment/dp/B0002NYBJG/ref=pd_cp_hi_1). (this isn't like the old striped paint trick to play on apprentices.) They are normal drill bits that cut when being spun anti clockwise. Often the combination of the drill bit removing the metal (thus relieving the pressure on the threads) and the force being applied in the correct direction (to unscrew the plug, rather than screw it tighter) is enough to get it moving.

My suggestion would be trying to hammer a larger allen key/ torx bit into the plug and hope it spins. You'll get better control if you use a small spanner on the shaft of the allen key right next to the face of the plug, while pushing down hard from above.

Then I'd drill out the plug with the left handed drill bits (if available), and get a small cold chisel and try and hammer it loose with that. Sometimes drilling it out is enough to relieve the pressure on the plug.

Then I'd try the easy outs. If they don't work drill it all the way out until only the threads remain. Then try and pick them out with a sharp pick. The only option after that is putting a lot of heat into the reg body* to try to get it to expand, and finally you can drill out the whole plug and rethread it using Helicoils*
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=helicoil%20kits&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CGgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.noblefix.com%2F&ei=aECKT7mtJIaOmQWUionnCQ&usg=AFQjCNGM5TxA5YEyvnHEqAjtD_Qs53CZQA&cad=rja. Though this might not be advisable on a scuba reg.

One important thing. Don't drill the first hole so big that the easy out projects too far into the body of the reg. If the easyout bottoms out on the reg body inside without gripping the wall of the plug you'll need to re drill and go up a size in the easyouts. Patience is a virtue with this kind of thing!

All of this info is based on my experience as a mechanic, it is not specific to scuba regs. I haven't got any direct experience working on regs... but I have removed a lot of broken bolts over the years. *this will pretty much destroy the reg I would think.

Finally, if you snap the easyout off in the hole... just walk away.

[Zeke XA3]

Gonna try the bigger allen key method first then, dont want to really hammer anything to hard into the hole! Think i may cause more damage else! And it was hard enough sourcing the Easy out to here let alone left handed drill bits!

But some soaking in the sonic bath then allen key then easy out (when it arrives).

[gcarter]

From my experience the straight fluted easy outs http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=straight%20flute%20screw%20extractors&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CEQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.icscuttingtools.com%2Fcatalog %2Fpage_205.pdf&ei=J0CKT5-IOpDKmAXGpI3CCQ&usg=AFQjCNGLuZuGyXHXZXGEQNMSBvLBRBZyxQ&cad=rja are much more effective than the spiral fluted. They are essentially a tapered square profile with sharp edges. You hammer them into the hole rather than screwing them in.

I have generally had better success with them as well. I even occasionally keep ones that have broken - sometimes it makes it easier to hit the sweet spot taper / depth limits.


Finally, if you snap the easyout off in the hole... just walk away.

Truly. It is for your own sanity. :D

[ferris213]

Truly. It is for your own sanity. :D

Nothing quite compares to the feeling of snapping that last exhaust stud off.. then snapping the easy out two hours later:depressed:

[Zung]

It happened to me once: an HP plug that had never been removed in it's entire life. I tried eveything: soaking for weeks, oven/freezer, it wouldn't bulge. Cut a slot, but the screw driver kept on slipping. I finally hammered in the next size up Allen key, and that did it.

The reg survived... Do you think I can reuse the plug? :D

121594