Most optimal deco regulator for 80%/100% O2

[elan]

I'm planning to take AN/DP within this year and slowly preparing the gear.

What regulator would you recommend for using with 80%/100% O2? I spoke to few experienced dives including a couple of instructors, and there seems to be no consensus. :)

Some recommend to go with hi performance ones like Apeks DS4 or Zeagle DS-V.

One person told me to keep it simple and go with SP MK2 as it is a flow by piston and has a low flow rate which is good for O2 and it is very simple reg to service.

We dive mostly in fresh water (Great Lakes and St Lawrence) I do not expect to do any decompression dives in temps lower that 40F possibly even not lower than 45F.

If MK2 is what you would recommend what would be a god second stage? I think by default it comes with R295.

Thanks a lot in advance.

P.S. I would prefer to stick to Apeks, SP or Zeagle as those are the makes I currently have.

[Fishpie]

I found that a swivel was a slight advantage on a deco/stage reg.
Easy to keep the hose nice a close to the tank when tucked under the rubber inner tube rings and comfortable in the mouth when deployed.
I used MK 10's or DST's.
If I was buying today I'd still go with the DST (or one of the good copies).

If you decide on the MK2 I'd use a G250 or an Apeks copy.

[Teller]

HOG D1 can be used with 100% O2 up to 2400 psi out of the box and they make great cold water regs.

[elan]

Thanks Teller, I would pass on HOG for different reasons...

[Kunundrum]

I like the MK2 - R295/395 for Deco/Stages

1. Inexpensive (it it were to get bashed around and damaged)
2. Very simple design, and few moving parts
3. Light weight
4. available in DIN
5. the R295/395 can have the hose adjusted from left to right depending on how it's going to be "sligned".
6. if you add a low pressure swivel adaptor you get get the hose to tuck in very nicely just like a turret regulator but for a fraction of the cost.

The Subgear Aruba is a MK2/R295, in Canada it's available only as Yoke, though it can be converted to DIN using the Scubapro Kit. So this would be worth considering too for the same reasons.

[Ulfhedinn]

Thanks Teller, I would pass on HOG for different reasons...


Do you mind telling me what reasons? I have a set I plan to use for this.

---------- Post added April 8th, 2012 at 08:12 AM ----------


HOG D1 can be used with 100% O2 up to 2400 psi out of the box and they make great cold water regs.

If 2400psi out of the box what does it take to make it 3000psi?

[Aqua-Andy]

Do you mind telling me what reasons? I have a set I plan to use for this.

---------- Post added April 8th, 2012 at 08:12 AM ----------



If 2400psi out of the box what does it take to make it 3000psi?

Drop the O2 percentage to 80%, now they are good to 300PSI. HOG does not recommend there regs to be used over 2400PSI with 100% O2 no mater what you do to them. I believe this goes along with CGA standards and CGA does not recommend any reg be used over 2400PSI with 100% O2, This is at least how it was explained to me. I know the medical industry keeps O2 pressures below 2400PSI and they deal with oxygen way more than the dive industry does.

[SeaCobra]

a couple of things to consider:

you will be spending a good deal of time on this reg, so get a comfy one

what other regs do you already own? perhaps stay in the same make and model to make field repair and service easier

[Jim Lapenta]

Actually 3400 at 80%. I use D-1's for all my stages and back gas.

[Aqua-Andy]

Actually 3400 at 80%. I use D-1's for all my stages and back gas.

I just checked my HOG repair manual(from DRIS) and it states 3000 at 80%. But this is kind of a moot point as most people use aluminium stage bottles so you are still held to the 3000PSI limit of the bottle. I've heard a few issues with exploding SCUBA tanks with high PPO2 levels, maybe we should nip this in the bud and follow CGA standards before the government feels the need to intervene. I sure don't want the reg/valve crap they are seeing in Europe to be imposed on us.

[Jim Lapenta]

Agreed. I was just posting what the Edge/HOG site specifies and what I was told by Chris. Agree that 100% O2 should not be used over 2400psi.

[fdog]

A) DIN. It just makes that o-ring more reliable, something you want in a deco reg.
B) A swivel turret on the 1st stage. It's amazing how much strain this takes off your mouth.
C) Something that has parts commonality with all your other stage and backgas regs, thus reducing the PITA factor when overhauling.
D) A 1st stage that has the HP port on the "bottom" of the reg, otherwise the SPG is inverted.


All my regs are Atomics, so it's a no-brainer for my 70' and 20' bottles to have M1 regs on them, as it fills all the above shopping list - and I really, really like the Monel (very oxygen-compatable) parts in them.


All the best, James

[Ulfhedinn]

Drop the O2 percentage to 80%, now they are good to 300PSI. HOG does not recommend there regs to be used over 2400PSI with 100% O2 no mater what you do to them. I believe this goes along with CGA standards and CGA does not recommend any reg be used over 2400PSI with 100% O2, This is at least how it was explained to me. I know the medical industry keeps O2 pressures below 2400PSI and they deal with oxygen way more than the dive industry does.

I had heard this before too but was unable to find any information looking through my IANTD Tao book or any other books for that matter. I do not have the HOG reg book though. Thanks for this info.

[DepthCharge]

I've heard a few issues with exploding SCUBA tanks with high PPO2 levels,

Please cite your references......

[j2s]

Stick w/your Apeks, just make sure it's [both 1st & 2nd stages] rated or converted [Viton 'O' rings] for the higher O2 levels you mentioned.....I used to be an Apeks user and never had a problem w/them.....I switched to HOG for the quality, price, parts, port configuration and self-maintenance policy....But Apeks, is a good solid Co......I used their DST's, DS4's, Tech's, XTX50's, 100's and some of their octo's, for deep/deco and cave diving...They all performed well......

[elan]

Do you mind telling me what reasons? I have a set I plan to use for this.

---------- Post added April 8th, 2012 at 08:12 AM ----------



If 2400psi out of the box what does it take to make it 3000psi?

The reasons are simple.
They are not represented locally
I have a good LDS that represents SP and Apeks
The teams I dive with mostly dive SP and Apeks and some of them are techs so it is easier to source parts

So having a HOG add no extra value for me

[elan]

a couple of things to consider:

you will be spending a good deal of time on this reg, so get a comfy one

what other regs do you already own? perhaps stay in the same make and model to make field repair and service easier

I now have Zeagle FH vI/ZX, Apeks Tek3/xtx50 and ATX 50, SP MK25/G250v
So you would recommend just get another G250V if I go with MK2?

So if I go with MK

[elan]

I like the MK2 - R295/395 for Deco/Stages

1. Inexpensive (it it were to get bashed around and damaged)
2. Very simple design, and few moving parts
3. Light weight
4. available in DIN
5. the R295/395 can have the hose adjusted from left to right depending on how it's going to be "sligned".
6. if you add a low pressure swivel adaptor you get get the hose to tuck in very nicely just like a turret regulator but for a fraction of the cost.

The Subgear Aruba is a MK2/R295, in Canada it's available only as Yoke, though it can be converted to DIN using the Scubapro Kit. So this would be worth considering too for the same reasons.

Those are the reasons I have hear before and this is what makes sense to me. Given the fact tht the regs does not need to provide high flow.

[Graeme Tolton]

I would stick with the apeks. I use their first stages exclusively. Out of the box, they come with epdm o-rings. Also, they are easy to resell if need be. The ds4/dst regs are super simple to service with the only special tool being a hook spanner readily available.

Another advantage to the apeks is all the parts kits are the same on most models.

[elan]

I would stick with the apeks. I use their first stages exclusively. Out of the box, they come with epdm o-rings. Also, they are easy to resell if need be. The ds4/dst regs are super simple to service with the only special tool being a hook spanner readily available.

Another advantage to the apeks is all the parts kits are the same on most models.

Hey Graeme how are you?, have you sold all your Conshelves ? ;)

---------- Post added April 8th, 2012 at 11:07 PM ----------


Stick w/your Apeks, just make sure it's [both 1st & 2nd stages] rated or converted [Viton 'O' rings] for the higher O2 levels you mentioned.....I used to be an Apeks user and never had a problem w/them.....I switched to HOG for the quality, price, parts, port configuration and self-maintenance policy....But Apeks, is a good solid Co......I used their DST's, DS4's, Tech's, XTX50's, 100's and some of their octo's, for deep/deco and cave diving...They all performed well......

The reason why I'm still on the fence regarding the diaphragms in general and Apeks in particular is that they seem to have more complex flow paths compared to a flow by piston reg, and have more "fuel" inside in a form of a diaphragm which I guess is a minus for an O2 reg and they move the gas faster (almost twice according to the specs). I realize that fact that the expansion of the gas works as a cooler, and I can always take the enviro seal off so the water would cool the diaphragm.

I might be over thinking it though. I know people use them...

[PfcAJ]

I've heard about diaphragms and o2 issues, as well. Not sure if its a 'real thing' or not, but I don't want to be the joker that finds out it IS a real thing.

[halocline]

The 1st stage is only flowing gas at the rate the 2nd stage demands, so having higher flow does not equal faster moving O2 in practice. I like MK2s; they're very simple and have good cold water performance. One thing nice about the design is that there are no dynamic o-rings in the HP chamber; this might have at least a theoretical advantage in o-ring life for 100% O2. I have no idea how a swivel could be installed on a MK2; the body with HP chamber and LP ports is one piece of brass.

If you want a swivel, why not consider an older MK5? You can find many of those with 2 LP ports for next to nothing, and the lighter yoke is not a problem with 2400 PSI.

I'd sure consider using a 109 for a 2nd stage; bulletproof and simple, and great breathers.

[Kunundrum]

I have no idea how a swivel could be installed on a MK2; the body with HP chamber and LP ports is one piece of brass.


It's easy with these http://www.piranhadivemfg.com/shop/images/1126-2799.jpg

allows the hoses to tuck nice and close to the tank, yet move around freely when needed.

they are fairly inexpensive too.

[elan]

The 1st stage is only flowing gas at the rate the 2nd stage demands, so having higher flow does not equal faster moving O2 in practice. I like MK2s; they're very simple and have good cold water performance. One thing nice about the design is that there are no dynamic o-rings in the HP chamber; this might have at least a theoretical advantage in o-ring life for 100% O2. I have no idea how a swivel could be installed on a MK2; the body with HP chamber and LP ports is one piece of brass.

If you want a swivel, why not consider an older MK5? You can find many of those with 2 LP ports for next to nothing, and the lighter yoke is not a problem with 2400 PSI.

I'd sure consider using a 109 for a 2nd stage; bulletproof and simple, and great breathers.

Thanks halocline, I was thinking about 109, can the parts still be sourced ?

I am not really that concerned about swivels. I have been using my FHVI on staged for about 3 years now. I have never noticed any issues with the hose pulling on the second stage. In those 3 years I had to replace only 1 hose because the outer rubber shell cracked at the place it bends. The hose itself was intact though.

For me the swivel introduces another potential headache with the swivel bolt....

---------- Post added April 8th, 2012 at 11:41 PM ----------


It's easy with these http://www.piranhadivemfg.com/shop/images/1126-2799.jpg

allows the hoses to tuck nice and close to the tank, yet move around freely when needed.

they are fairly inexpensive too.

Looks like it can work nicely on the MK2.... I use one of those (1 to 3) on the RAM.

---------- Post added April 9th, 2012 at 12:22 AM ----------


One thing nice about the design is that there are no dynamic o-rings in the HP chamber;

I think this is an excellent point... thanks...

[halocline]

It's easy with these http://www.piranhadivemfg.com/shop/images/1126-2799.jpg



That's just a hose adapter (I'm sure you know that), not a "swivel turret" which is what I thought the previous poster was asking about. I would see zero reason to install one of these on a deco reg; just use an appropriate length hose.

[Graeme Tolton]

I still have a few conshelfs kicking around. I would have kept them in use, but the hose routing sucks and it is very hard to find a din conversion kit. The apeks dst has an unsealed sister (ust). They are less expensive and all of the service parts are the same.

That being said, the dst would work fine if the enviro seal and pushrod were removed. It would also make ip adjustments possible without any disassembly.

If you are ever heading up to tobermory, swing by my shop, i will show you my fill station. :)

[Kunundrum]

That's just a hose adapter (I'm sure you know that), not a "swivel turret" which is what I thought the previous poster was asking about. I would see zero reason to install one of these on a deco reg; just use an appropriate length hose.

To be Fair your post only said "swivel" not "swivel Turret". Though I agree it might not be needed in some case, if you have a few hoses on a Bailout/Deco Tank, they can be helpful to tuck the hoses out of the way, as to not snag on anything, this is especially true on a MK2.

[elan]

I still have a few conshelfs kicking around. I would have kept them in use, but the hose routing sucks and it is very hard to find a din conversion kit. The apeks dst has an unsealed sister (ust). They are less expensive and all of the service parts are the same.

That being said, the dst would work fine if the enviro seal and pushrod were removed. It would also make ip adjustments possible without any disassembly.

If you are ever heading up to tobermory, swing by my shop, i will show you my fill station. :)

I sure will. I heard on OD you ve got your own station! Thats great!

[Wayne at DiveSeekers]

The most common Deco Reg, 100% (I don't teach 80%), we do is the Dive Rite O2 Deco Reg (http://www.diveseekers.com/Oxygen_Regulator_RG1208_DECO_p/rg1208-deco.htm) followed by Hollis 02 Regulator (http://www.diveseekers.com/Hollis_210_H_02_Regulator_p/hol-240.3751.07.m.htm) . I prefer the setup (hose & gauge routing) on the DR better but both are reliable and at great price points.

---------- Post added April 10th, 2012 at 04:01 PM ----------

Oh yeah, both come DIN with gauges and 40" hoses!

[elan]

So after doing more research I have pulled the trigger on a DIN MK2 Plus which I plan to pair with an S600 that I already have.

I really liked the fact that the unbalanced piston has no dynamic o-ring exposed to high pressure. The reg also looks bullet proof.

Does anyone know what changes were implemented in Plus model vs. regular MK2 ?