DIN 300 or International A Clamp?

[Lamnid]

Just buying my first regs - going with Apex XTX50 plus XTX40 for the octo and the Apex contents gauge in bright pink (alright!!). I had originally thought that it was "best" to go for the DIN 300 version (I thought I had read that this could be "adapted" to the A Clamp if necessary fairly easily) but as I got to the check out I started to doubt myself. Could someone please let me know the pros and cons of both? (I have done some internet research but it is really valuable to have an opinion from a real person). Also what do you reckon to my set up? I feel confident that these regs are a good choice but opinions appreciated! :-)

Thanks!

Caz

[krawlings]

If all you are going to be doing is rec. diving I would just go with the yok style over the din you will find that the yok is readily available at most LDS and vacation destinations . din is used more in the tech . diving with high pressure tanks

[Bubbletrubble]

The Apeks reg setup you described is an excellent one. IMO, the XTX50 + XTX40 octo presents the best "value" rig in the Apeks reg line.

The decision to go DIN vs. yoke/A clamp shouldn't be a difficult one. You just have to answer one question:
With what style of tank valves will you be using your regs a majority of the time?

If you have yoke tank valves, then it probably makes sense to go with a yoke-configured regulator.
If you have DIN tank valves, then it makes sense to go with a DIN-configured regulator.
If you have the DIN/yoke convertible tank valves (becoming more common nowadays), then you can choose to configure your reg as DIN or yoke. :dontknow:
The nifty DIN/yoke convertible tank valves are essentially DIN valves with a screw-in insert that transforms the connection into yoke.

DIN-configured regs can be attached to yoke tank valves with a simple spin-on DIN-to-yoke adapter (cost $20-$70).
Yoke-configured regs cannot be attached to DIN-only tank valves (excl. DIN/yoke convertible).

Disadvantages of the DIN connection:


Theoretically, it's possible that if a diver isn't careful, he can cross-thread the DIN connector when assembling his kit. Personally, I've never seen this happen.
DIN threads can accumulate some minor corrosion in-between reg overhauls. Not a big deal, though.
If a diver must use his DIN reg with a yoke tank valve, the spin-on DIN-to-yoke adapter can cause the first stage to protrude about an inch more towards the back of his head (when kitted up). Depending on how high/low the tank is secured to the diver's BCD, this may or may not be an issue. Some divers complain that the spin-on adapter causes the first stage to hit them in the back of the head. Personally, I've never experienced this issue.



Advantages of the DIN connection:


The sealing o-ring of the DIN connection remains with the reg (rather than the tank, as is the case with the yoke). Typically, regs are stored in a temperature-controlled environment (indoors?), whereas tanks get stored outside. It's no wonder that the yoke o-ring tends to fail/extrude more often than the DIN o-ring.
Some people will argue that the DIN connection is more secure than the yoke. For overhead diving, the DIN connection is preferred due to the possibility of dislodging the yoke connection should it come into contact with the overhead environment. It should be noted, however, that for run-of-the-mill open water recreational diving, the yoke connection works great and is very reliable.



I have DIN and DIN/yoke convertible tank valves at home; therefore, my regs for local diving are DIN-configured.
My travel reg setup is yoke-configured. The vast majority of tanks I have encountered at warm water dive destinations have had yoke tank valves.

For beginner divers who are still renting tanks (which generally have yoke tank valves), it is usually best to stick with a yoke-configured reg. As a side benefit, beginners are usually familiar with the yoke-configured regs since the majority of rental regs are yoke-configured. Replacing the yoke tank valve o-ring is typically taught in basic OW class, so the beginner should be accustomed to checking that o-ring and replacing it if necessary.

Whether you decide to order your Apeks reg setup as DIN or yoke, you can always order conversion parts in the future from an authorized Apeks dealer. Expect to pay $50-$100 for the conversion kit.

Hope this helps...

[PfcAJ]

DIN (300b) works on every tank. Yoke does not.

[MarineResearch]

I prefer DIN 300 and carry a wrench for convertible valves and a yoke adapter. This pretty much covers every situation. I've also found that O-rings are worth gold in some remote locations since they never seem to replace them until they blow out and rarely have any decent spares.

[Scared Silly]

DIN (300b) works on every tank. Yoke does not.

Actually the above is not true.

Ya gotta have the DIN-to-Yoke adapter without one yer screwed. :cool2:

The same can be said for many yoke regs - there are Yoke-to-DIN adaptors for them as well all depends on the yoke nut style.

To the OP - what BT wrote is spot on :

"With what style of tank valves will you be using your regs a majority of the time?"

Though I will add the following what are your plans in the future? If you think you would head tech you might lean more to the DIN. But as said their are conversion kits so do not make it a huge concern.

[eelnoraa]

I am with BT and Silly. What tank do you see yourself using most of the time? It sounds difficult, but essentially is this:
1. are you a vacation diver? if so, Yoke
2. are you going to be rental most of the time? if so, yoke because most rentals are yoke.
3. if you own tanks in din, or if you are going to buy tank in din, then buy din.

For now, don't worry about tech diving. When you want to get into tech diving, and by the time you finished (entry level) trainings and other equipment upgrade, the $$ you put into diving will be far greater than that of modding you reg from yoke to din. Also, it will sure not be the last reg you will buy.

[Lamnid]

Hi everyone - wow thanks, such great advice! I am totally a vacation diver and having done a google image search i see that yoke is the type I am most familiar with so perhaps I will opt for that one as I do think it will be the most popular fitting for most dive centre rental bottles. Having said that I can certainly see the advantages of the DIN as it can be converted to fit any bottle!

Thanks for taking the time to reply everyone! Much appreciated :-)

Caz

[tadawson]

As a counterpoint, myself, I bought DIN with a yoke adapter first in 1978, and have not owned a DIN valve tank until early this year. It was still nice to go both ways, and I have never regretted the decision. Now, all my regs are DIN with yoke, and all my tanks have PRO valves and can also convert. So, if I need to loan a tank, it's a non-issue, and if I need to use a rental/non-DIN tank, it's also a non-issue.

If you can find what you want in DIN with a conversion yoke, and are not paying much of a premium, to me it's a no brainer - DIN! You just future proofed yourself . . .

Can't beat that!

- Tim

[PfcAJ]

Actually the above is not true.

Ya gotta have the DIN-to-Yoke adapter without one yer screwed. :cool2:

The same can be said for many yoke regs - there are Yoke-to-DIN adaptors for them as well all depends on the yoke nut style.

To the OP - what BT wrote is spot on :

"With what style of tank valves will you be using your regs a majority of the time?"

Though I will add the following what are your plans in the future? If you think you would head tech you might lean more to the DIN. But as said their are conversion kits so do not make it a huge concern.

Shenanigans. Adding a DIN to yoke adapter doesn't take tools, and its a relatively common and inexpensive part. Swapping a yoke for a DIN fitting requires tool and a potentially hard to acquire reg-specific DIN part. Some regs don't even have the option, and when they do, its like 50-60 bucks. Then you end up with a worthless yoke fitting sitting in a box somewhere.

yoke sucks.

[DevonDiver]

DIN is a safer, more secure fitting - that's why it is essential for tech, but also why it's a good idea for a recreational diver also. However, the safety benefits of DIN valves aren't quite to critical for recreational divers - as there are plenty of options/procedures in the event of valve/o-ring failure.

The holiday/rental scuba industry uses yoke, primarily because they are less liable to damage (the threads on DIN regs are more prone to damage by careless customers). Good scuba outfits either have convertible DIN/Yoke tank valves - but many don't.

DIN - Yoke converters often cause the regulator to protrude at the back... which can be annoying if it makes contact with the back of your head. It also adds another o-ring (failure point) to the rig... making the converted DIN less safe than a yoke valve anyway.

If you will be primarily using rental cylinders, the convenience of yoke will often outweigh the safety benefits of DIN.

[RTee]

Out of the six regs my GF and I own, five are DIN and one is yoke. Used to have four and two but when she traded her 2 X AL 80cft for 2 X HP 100 she had her reg DIN converted (Mares Abyss). Beside, I also own 2 X DIN to yoke converters and tanks with both set-ups (yoke and DIN).

We also dive regularly on vacation and so far, she has not had any problem or discomfort using ther reg assembly with the converter as she adjusts the tank properly on her Express tech rig and uses a crotch strap to prevent the rig from riding up.

[halocline]

DIN is a safer, more secure fitting - that's why it is essential for tech, but also why it's a good idea for a recreational diver also.

While this is probably or theoretically true, there really is no evidence that diving with yoke presents any increased danger....zero. That's probably because tank valve o-ring failures under water are extremely rare; they're much more likely to happen when the reg is first pressurized with a full tank. That's not too uncommon...and seems to happen with yoke valves more often than DIN, although that's a guess on my part.

However, there is no doubt that yoke clamps present an additional entanglement potential, and that's part of the reason tech divers use DIN.

I still feel that for rental tanks in recreational settings, the yoke system has advantages; along the lines of what you pointed out. DIN valves are more delicate, at least when they're not connected to a reg or brass plug, and probably would not stand up to the kind of abuse rental tanks at resorts often get.

[Otto]

If you are buying new from a dealer I would ask how much it would cost to get a conversion so that you can go to din at a later date if you choose to. Now is the time to consider buying the conversion since you are buying a reg set you have some leverage to get the conversion at a better price than you will at a later date. Having the conversion at a later date may be handy if you go tech and will help resale also. Having said all that you should know that I dive mostly DIN and have several Yoke conversions and DIN to Yoke adapters. The trick to using an adapter is to twist the tank slightly so that you don't hit your head. The dive shop should have an adapter available to demonstrate the issues before you buy. If you buy DIN get the adapter now for the above mentioned fact that they should give you a deal on it. Dive safe.

[supergaijin]

Buy DIN and the $10 yoke converter. Problem solved.
Like the man said above, DIN to yoke is a simple adaptor.
Yoke to DIN requires a bit of surgery to the reg

[h90]

The Apeks reg setup you described is an excellent one. IMO, the XTX50 + XTX40 octo presents the best "value" rig in the Apeks reg line.

The decision to go DIN vs. yoke/A clamp shouldn't be a difficult one. You just have to answer one question:
With what style of tank valves will you be using your regs a majority of the time?

If you have yoke tank valves, then it probably makes sense to go with a yoke-configured regulator.
If you have DIN tank valves, then it makes sense to go with a DIN-configured regulator.
If you have the DIN/yoke convertible tank valves (becoming more common nowadays), then you can choose to configure your reg as DIN or yoke. :dontknow:
The nifty DIN/yoke convertible tank valves are essentially DIN valves with a screw-in insert that transforms the connection into yoke.

DIN-configured regs can be attached to yoke tank valves with a simple spin-on DIN-to-yoke adapter (cost $20-$70).
Yoke-configured regs cannot be attached to DIN-only tank valves (excl. DIN/yoke convertible).

Disadvantages of the DIN connection:


Theoretically, it's possible that if a diver isn't careful, he can cross-thread the DIN connector when assembling his kit. Personally, I've never seen this happen.
DIN threads can accumulate some minor corrosion in-between reg overhauls. Not a big deal, though.
If a diver must use his DIN reg with a yoke tank valve, the spin-on DIN-to-yoke adapter can cause the first stage to protrude about an inch more towards the back of his head (when kitted up). Depending on how high/low the tank is secured to the diver's BCD, this may or may not be an issue. Some divers complain that the spin-on adapter causes the first stage to hit them in the back of the head. Personally, I've never experienced this issue.



Advantages of the DIN connection:


The sealing o-ring of the DIN connection remains with the reg (rather than the tank, as is the case with the yoke). Typically, regs are stored in a temperature-controlled environment (indoors?), whereas tanks get stored outside. It's no wonder that the yoke o-ring tends to fail/extrude more often than the DIN o-ring.
Some people will argue that the DIN connection is more secure than the yoke. For overhead diving, the DIN connection is preferred due to the possibility of dislodging the yoke connection should it come into contact with the overhead environment. It should be noted, however, that for run-of-the-mill open water recreational diving, the yoke connection works great and is very reliable.



I have DIN and DIN/yoke convertible tank valves at home; therefore, my regs for local diving are DIN-configured.
My travel reg setup is yoke-configured. The vast majority of tanks I have encountered at warm water dive destinations have had yoke tank valves.

For beginner divers who are still renting tanks (which generally have yoke tank valves), it is usually best to stick with a yoke-configured reg. As a side benefit, beginners are usually familiar with the yoke-configured regs since the majority of rental regs are yoke-configured. Replacing the yoke tank valve o-ring is typically taught in basic OW class, so the beginner should be accustomed to checking that o-ring and replacing it if necessary.

Whether you decide to order your Apeks reg setup as DIN or yoke, you can always order conversion parts in the future from an authorized Apeks dealer. Expect to pay $50-$100 for the conversion kit.

Hope this helps...

With DIN 300 it is worse than with DIN 200 and I bang my head frequently on it...

[victor]

My 2 cents.
Most recreational diving is done with Yoke, that covers both Caribean and Far East. Some shops have DIN tanks as an option, in particular if they have a large European customer base, (DIN is very common in Germany).
I had both DIN and Yoke for my last regulatior set, it took 2 minutes and a large adjustable wrench to switch between systems.
My new regs are Yoke only as I have no need for DIN at present.
Yoke to DIN converters are bulky and may cause your reg to hit the back of your head, needs some practise to find the best setup.
DIN to Yoke are just a threaded plug which screws inside the tank fitting, easy to carry and all you need is allen key to fit.

If you going for recreational diving when you travel, go Yoke
If you will be buying your own tanks or diving locally and the shop uses DIN go with DIN

Technically I think DIN is better but Yoke is readilly available and it is easier to convert DIN to Yoke.