How would you plan an extended trip to florida to learn to cave dive?

[feitr]

Hi


Just wanting to get some people's perspectives on the best people/places with whom to take cave diving courses and the must visit cave diving spots in florida given say at least 1 month and no real budget. Who is in your opinion the best teacher in Florida? I am open to both backmount and sidemount but find the idea of sidemount a bit more appealing (i'd like to dive both eventually).

My plan is to do my cavern course first so that I am not doing the zero to hero thing (at least not completely doing it) plus it will also give me a good idea of how quickly i pick up everything and prevent me from planning a huge trip and finding out i get there and can't get fully cave certified. I'd really like to be able to do intro to cave then full cave and then have a period of about a month where i can do alot of cave diving and reinforce the techniques i've learned, etc. Plus i live in Australia and if i'm going to go all that way i'd like to do alot of diving.

In terms of logistics - if i were going to stay for a month - 2 months would it be a good idea to just buy some tanks in the US then sell them to a shop before i leave? If i did a total of 50 dives then hiring tanks would really add up and i'm not sure i could 1. get my tanks from australia to the states and 2. whether or not they'd even fill them if so (you can't fill tanks from the states in australia).

I have a broad outline of where i'd like to go and who i'd like to be certified with but i want to see what people who understand the area better think. Thanks

[katepnatl]

It would be helpful to have a bit more information about your experience/skill level in order to answer the questions... do you have experience diving backmount doubles already? How is your buoyancy and trim? Are you planning on taking the course/s in a wetsuit or drysuit? If a drysuit, do you have experience in that? How many dives in these configurations? What about technical experience/training in general?

Logistics-wise - I wouldn't plan on getting tanks to/from Australia - it may be a good idea to start looking for used tanks that are current with their hydro and visual inspection - if you know what size tanks you want to be diving. If you don't... probably makes sense to wait until you get over here, try different tanks, and wait to buy what works best for you, will save you $$ in the long run. There are almost always used tanks for sale in N FL and your instructor will likely have some you can you borrow.

There's a thread recently that discussed SM vs. BM: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/advanced-scuba-discussions/415640-going-tech-backmount-sidemount-doubles.html.. it's not specific to cave diving, but there is a lot of good information in it.

Also here is the Cave Diving forum here on SB: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/cave-diving/

Good luck!

[NetDoc]

I would start by contacting the good folk at Cave Country Dive Shop (http://www.cavecountrydiving.com). They can assist you with housing, instructors, gear and rentals. Good peeps and I can't say enough good about them.

[darushin]

Hi


Just wanting to get some people's perspectives on the best people/places with whom to take cave diving courses and the must visit cave diving spots in florida given say at least 1 month and no real budget. Who is in your opinion the best teacher in Florida? I am open to both backmount and sidemount but find the idea of sidemount a bit more appealing (i'd like to dive both eventually).

My plan is to do my cavern course first so that I am not doing the zero to hero thing (at least not completely doing it) plus it will also give me a good idea of how quickly i pick up everything and prevent me from planning a huge trip and finding out i get there and can't get fully cave certified. I'd really like to be able to do intro to cave then full cave and then have a period of about a month where i can do alot of cave diving and reinforce the techniques i've learned, etc. Plus i live in Australia and if i'm going to go all that way i'd like to do alot of diving.

In terms of logistics - if i were going to stay for a month - 2 months would it be a good idea to just buy some tanks in the US then sell them to a shop before i leave? If i did a total of 50 dives then hiring tanks would really add up and i'm not sure i could 1. get my tanks from australia to the states and 2. whether or not they'd even fill them if so (you can't fill tanks from the states in australia).

I have a broad outline of where i'd like to go and who i'd like to be certified with but i want to see what people who understand the area better think. Thanks


As for places to stay, I would talk to Bill Rennaker at Cave Excursions (http://sidemount.com/). He rents houses to divers and he is right in the middle of a several cave sites (In addition to being right next door to Peacock Springs). Also Bill can give you advice on cave diving and instructors. Also as mentioned above, Cave Country is a good place to get info on diving. If you have anymore questions, drop me a line and I will try and answer them if I can.

Daru

[Dive-aholic]

Hi


Just wanting to get some people's perspectives on the best people/places with whom to take cave diving courses and the must visit cave diving spots in florida given say at least 1 month and no real budget. Who is in your opinion the best teacher in Florida? I am open to both backmount and sidemount but find the idea of sidemount a bit more appealing (i'd like to dive both eventually).

Sounds like you don't have experience in either diving dual cylinders in backmount or sidemount right now. While most of us don't have an issue with conducting a backmount or sidemount class followed by cavern or intro, you really need more experience than a month or 2 in either configuration before moving onto full cave. Coming to Florida to learn to dive dual cylinders and cave diving will just set you up for failure. I wouldn't accept a student under those conditions. It would just be a waste of both of our time and efforts.


My plan is to do my cavern course first so that I am not doing the zero to hero thing (at least not completely doing it) plus it will also give me a good idea of how quickly i pick up everything and prevent me from planning a huge trip and finding out i get there and can't get fully cave certified. I'd really like to be able to do intro to cave then full cave and then have a period of about a month where i can do alot of cave diving and reinforce the techniques i've learned, etc. Plus i live in Australia and if i'm going to go all that way i'd like to do alot of diving.

Are you already decompression trained and certified? There are instructors that will take you through full cave without it but, in most cases, you will be doing dives at the apprentice and full cave level that require decompression. If you don't already have that training you may want to consider getting it done in Australia or adding that into your course schedule in Florida.


In terms of logistics - if i were going to stay for a month - 2 months would it be a good idea to just buy some tanks in the US then sell them to a shop before i leave? If i did a total of 50 dives then hiring tanks would really add up and i'm not sure i could 1. get my tanks from australia to the states and 2. whether or not they'd even fill them if so (you can't fill tanks from the states in australia).

That actually sounds very reasonable if you're here for 2 months. Most places rent tanks for $10-20 a day. You would be looking at $250-500 (assuming you don't actually dive every single day - you will need dry days to decompress!) for the trip. If you're here for a month and can get the tanks for $10 a day, renting would be better. If you're here for 2 months you would be better off buying the cylinders (used ones would be best) and reselling them before you leave. You could look for deals while you're planning your trip, make the purchase and have them delivered to one of the local shops so they're ready to pick up on your arrival. Then just leave them at a shop when you leave and conduct the transaction through paypal. This is pretty common. I just picked up a set of cylinders that were dropped off for me a week ago. I've even had cylinders ferried up from S. Florida and down from Missouri and New York. We have quite an extensive cylinder transport network here on the east coast! :D


I have a broad outline of where i'd like to go and who i'd like to be certified with but i want to see what people who understand the area better think. Thanks

Hope this information helps!

[boulderjohn]

As with the others, I think it would be helpful if you fully described your background.

When I started my cave training, I had already completed several technical diving courses and was certified to do decompression diving. I was very much accustomed to diving with doubles. That gave me a great head start. If I had started the class right out of standard recreational diving, I would have had a very steep leaning curve, and I doubt I could have done it on your time frame.

The instructor I used included the use of tanks and all the gas I needed as part of the course. When I did my first courses, I flew to Florida and shipped some of my gear. He supplied the tanks and gas (nitrox and O2) at no additional price. When I completed the program, I drove down and brought my own tanks. He filled them for me each day, but it did not affect the cost of the course.

[feitr]

Right ok so seems this was probably a bit optimistic. No doubles, no staged deco, no drysuit training and only about 160 dives (2 years) which would be over 200 before doing the trip but yea obviously that isn't much.

Can somebody give me an idea of what it would cost to do a cavern, intro cave and advanced cave courses in florida (the cave excurion place somebody mentioned had 350 350 500)? I can do it all in australia but it is really quite expensive and it is not easy to get out to where they do the courses (for ex. i just booked a return flight to lax for 1000 and it would cost 600-700 to fly direct to where they do the courses even though only a few hours - in reality i'd probably just drive the 12 hours) and i think the cavern and intro cave courses will be about 600 aud each. They also require about 25 cavern/cave dives outside of course content before you can move from cavern to intro cave to full cave.

Do you need to dive drysuits in florida (you do in australia)? Right now i'm leaning towards doing cavern and intro cave in australia (backmount) which would give me about 50 cave dives experience and i could learn drysuit then i could go to florida and do full cave/learn sidemount/do some diving. But if i have to do that i'm almost tempted to just do it all in australia - one of the things that did appeal to me about florida was the fact that there are lots of really top cave divers there. Thoughts? Will it really be that hard to learn sidemount if i have dived in backmount a bit?

---------- Post added April 17th, 2012 at 03:10 AM ----------

Can somebody also outline the NACD cave course (from cavern to full cave)? The CDAA one in australia seems to be a bit longer (and thus can probably justify an extra cost it if it is longer) with cavern being 5 days (12 hrs theory, one 3 hr pool dive, 6 cavern dives) and it HAS to be completed in doubles (seems like you can do cavern in singles in the states?), cave being 4 days (1 day of theory, 6 cave dives) and advanced being 5 days (2 days theory and 6 cave dives i think).

[katepnatl]

Once you understand the way the things work, it's second nature and easy to forget how confusing the whole thing can be from the outside looking in. I am just a newby cave diver, but can answer some of your questions.


Can somebody also outline the NACD cave course (from cavern to full cave)?

Here is the link to the NACD training outline: NACD Training (http://www.safecavediving.com/training.shtml)



Right ok so seems this was probably a bit optimistic. No doubles, no staged deco, no drysuit training and only about 160 dives (2 years) which would be over 200 before doing the trip but yea obviously that isn't much.

Can somebody give me an idea of what it would cost to do a cavern, intro cave and advanced cave courses in florida (the cave excurion place somebody mentioned had 350 350 500)?

The progression for most of the agencies is cavern-intro-apprentice-full - many times cavern and intro are taken together, and apprentice and full are taken together. In terms of cost - for each of the four sections, from what I've seen, it's going to cost between $250 and $500 - depending on the instructor and whether you take the class with other students or not. So ballpark, between $1000 and $2000 total. As mentioned above, another consideration is whether the course would include tanks and gas.

There may be some cases where other combinations are taken together but they are less common. I know, or know of, several people who start out at with cavern/intro and stay there for quite some time very content. I don't know what level would be required to dive caves where you live, that would be important to find out.

Also as mentioned above, you want to ensure that your buoyancy and trim in doubles are completely dialed in, and it may be a good idea to have Advanced Nitrox/Deco Procedures under your belt prior to starting Apprentice/Full so that you are ready to take advantage of your extended gas allowances at the Apprentice/Full levels.




Do you need to dive drysuits in florida (you do in australia)? Right now i'm leaning towards doing cavern and intro cave in australia (backmount) which would give me about 50 cave dives experience and i could learn drysuit then i could go to florida and do full cave/learn sidemount/do some diving. But if i have to do that i'm almost tempted to just do it all in australia - one of the things that did appeal to me about florida was the fact that there are lots of really top cave divers there. Thoughts? Will it really be that hard to learn sidemount if i have dived in backmount a bit?

Again, please understand my perspective is that of a newby cave diver, most of the others who have been responding are instructors, so take everything I say with that in mind. If I were you, in Australia, I'd want to get the basics down: I'd take an intro to tech and/or Adv Nitrox/Deco Procedures and get very comfortable in doubles. If necessary, I'd take a drysuit class - not because you *have* to dive drysuits in FL*, but if you are going to be diving drysuits in caves at home, it makes sense to be training how you will be diving. You may or may not need a class, but it will be clear fairly quickly in your tech classes if you need to ;). Finally, I'd consider taking Cavern in Australia - to ensure I was comfortable in an OH environment and so I could get the basic skills down and work on them, such as line handling, etc. Again, just some thoughts! YMMV!

Best of luck!

*Some people dive wet in FL caves, but long periods of time, such as spent in classes, could definitely get cold. Also, as mentioned, since you are diving dry at home, the best thing you should do do is "train as you fight."

[darushin]

Right ok so seems this was probably a bit optimistic. No doubles, no staged deco, no drysuit training and only about 160 dives (2 years) which would be over 200 before doing the trip but yea obviously that isn't much.

Can somebody give me an idea of what it would cost to do a cavern, intro cave and advanced cave courses in florida (the cave excurion place somebody mentioned had 350 350 500)? I can do it all in australia but it is really quite expensive and it is not easy to get out to where they do the courses (for ex. i just booked a return flight to lax for 1000 and it would cost 600-700 to fly direct to where they do the courses even though only a few hours - in reality i'd probably just drive the 12 hours) and i think the cavern and intro cave courses will be about 600 aud each. They also require about 25 cavern/cave dives outside of course content before you can move from cavern to intro cave to full cave.

Do you need to dive drysuits in florida (you do in australia)? Right now i'm leaning towards doing cavern and intro cave in australia (backmount) which would give me about 50 cave dives experience and i could learn drysuit then i could go to florida and do full cave/learn sidemount/do some diving. But if i have to do that i'm almost tempted to just do it all in australia - one of the things that did appeal to me about florida was the fact that there are lots of really top cave divers there. Thoughts? Will it really be that hard to learn sidemount if i have dived in backmount a bit?

---------- Post added April 17th, 2012 at 03:10 AM ----------

Can somebody also outline the NACD cave course (from cavern to full cave)? The CDAA one in australia seems to be a bit longer (and thus can probably justify an extra cost it if it is longer) with cavern being 5 days (12 hrs theory, one 3 hr pool dive, 6 cavern dives) and it HAS to be completed in doubles (seems like you can do cavern in singles in the states?), cave being 4 days (1 day of theory, 6 cave dives) and advanced being 5 days (2 days theory and 6 cave dives i think).

Dry Suits are not required to dive in FL as all the springs are around 73F (23-24C) but are helpful for those long deco stops you will be doing. Also I should mention that many of the cave agencies (TDI, SSI etc...) require a diver to have Deco Procedures (or equiv) before you can complete Full Cave (Most will let you do them simultaneously).

Daru

[boulderjohn]

Many of the cave instructors have web sites with full details of their costs and policies. You can find a lot of them with a simple Google search.

I think doing AT LEAST the cavern and intro/basic classes in Australia is an excellent idea. That way you can take your time and make sure you are ready for the last step before making that long, expensive trip to Florida.

[TSandM]

Where are you in Australia? A class you might consider before booking such a trip is the GUE Fundamentals class, which you can get in Sidney or in Melbourne. That will give you some coaching in the use of double tanks, and in the trim, buoyancy and propulsion techniques which are common to all cave classes.

Why do you want to do all your cave training in Florida? Some of this could be done at home, with fewer logistical issues and almost certainly at lower cost.

[Dive-aholic]

Right ok so seems this was probably a bit optimistic. No doubles, no staged deco, no drysuit training and only about 160 dives (2 years) which would be over 200 before doing the trip but yea obviously that isn't much.

Can somebody give me an idea of what it would cost to do a cavern, intro cave and advanced cave courses in florida (the cave excurion place somebody mentioned had 350 350 500)? I can do it all in australia but it is really quite expensive and it is not easy to get out to where they do the courses (for ex. i just booked a return flight to lax for 1000 and it would cost 600-700 to fly direct to where they do the courses even though only a few hours - in reality i'd probably just drive the 12 hours) and i think the cavern and intro cave courses will be about 600 aud each. They also require about 25 cavern/cave dives outside of course content before you can move from cavern to intro cave to full cave.

Cost will vary. My fees for cavern through full cave end up being about $1300 if the classes are done with other students. This does not include anything else. You still have gas fees, site entry fees (if there are any), etc. This is for 8 days of training, 2 days per module. The experience dives in between courses are not mandatory for all agencies.


Do you need to dive drysuits in florida (you do in australia)? Right now i'm leaning towards doing cavern and intro cave in australia (backmount) which would give me about 50 cave dives experience and i could learn drysuit then i could go to florida and do full cave/learn sidemount/do some diving. But if i have to do that i'm almost tempted to just do it all in australia - one of the things that did appeal to me about florida was the fact that there are lots of really top cave divers there. Thoughts? Will it really be that hard to learn sidemount if i have dived in backmount a bit?

Dry suites are helpful. Water temperature is 68-72 degrees (20-22 C). Some of the dives can last 1.5 hours. Sidemount does have its own issues to deal with but it's not difficult if you have a good instructor or mentor.



---------- Post added April 17th, 2012 at 03:10 AM ----------

Can somebody also outline the NACD cave course (from cavern to full cave)? The CDAA one in australia seems to be a bit longer (and thus can probably justify an extra cost it if it is longer) with cavern being 5 days (12 hrs theory, one 3 hr pool dive, 6 cavern dives) and it HAS to be completed in doubles (seems like you can do cavern in singles in the states?), cave being 4 days (1 day of theory, 6 cave dives) and advanced being 5 days (2 days theory and 6 cave dives i think).

Check out my site - Cave Diving Courses « Rob Neto (http://chipoladivers.com/training/cave-diving-courses/) - for an outline of the courses.

[feitr]

Where are you in Australia? A class you might consider before booking such a trip is the GUE Fundamentals class, which you can get in Sidney or in Melbourne. That will give you some coaching in the use of double tanks, and in the trim, buoyancy and propulsion techniques which are common to all cave classes.

Why do you want to do all your cave training in Florida? Some of this could be done at home, with fewer logistical issues and almost certainly at lower cost.

I am close to Sydney but the GUE fundamentals course is 1000$ in australia so not too keen on that unless i was planning on taking other GUE courses.

The reason that florida appealed to me is that it is quite difficult to get to the easiest place in australia (mt gambier) where they do the courses and very difficult to get to others (e.g. nullabor) and accessing the caves is far from easy in many cases (long walks across farmland, abseiling down, etc.) but it is hard to find information like that so i am waiting to hear back from a few questions i've asked. The idea of spending a month or two diving learning to cave dive and having access to alot of fairly accessable caves is appealing. Ultimately i think it is just easiest to do it in Aus (at minimum cavern) and after that i might not feel the need to do any more (or at least for a little while) or i might want to stop after cave and do advanced cave later. In any case, not sure that starting off in sidemount would be that great of an idea so i'll prob just take it slow and figure it out from there. I guess i just need to get in touch with the cave diving community here so it will be easy to find buddies to dive.

Thanks for everybody who has contributed.

---------- Post added April 18th, 2012 at 08:56 PM ----------

Say i did go to florida how easy/reasonable would it be to expect to be able to find (good) buddies with which to dive