Suitable Dive Computer for DM trainee.

[allens12]

Hi there.

I currently have no diving experience at all. I have just been offered a divemaster internship and have been instructed to purchase, among other things, a good quality dive computer.

I took a trip down to the local dive shop and they were very helpful and pointed me in the direction of the Suunto range, from the Zoop, Vyper, d4i and d6i.

I want to stay away from the bigger more bulky computers mainly because i'll be wearing it all day.

I don't really know what sort of features I'll need for dm level. I would also have the opportunity to progress to instructor and further, and am trying to weigh up the benefits of purchasing something more expensive now in case i need/want to use a feature in the future; or purchase something now and then if i need something better later, to get it then.

I'm thinking adout the d4i, or if you could provide similarly priced models worth mentioning for consideration please do. Will i need something with more capabilities than the d4i? In particular, something with gauge mode?

Can anyone help me out a bit? Having no diving experience at all, I'm completely unfamiliar with the course and gear requirements (although I have read in many places that a dive computer is not always necessary and many prefer to dive without one, it is a requirement of the dive centre that I purchase one).

Any advice and help is greatly appreciated. Many thanks.

[Jim Lapenta]

WHat dive center is making you buy a computer before you have even hit the water? This is nuts. How will they even know if you can dive. And why would you accept an internship without any experience? If they are offering you this internship what are they providing and how much are they willing to pay you? And just how much is this internship costing you? I suggest you look up the options available to DM's after going thru one of these programs. More often known as Zero to Hero and finding out that they are extremely limited.

The only thing you should be doing now is, first of all, finding out if you even like diving. And if you can dive. And if you feel any desire to teach. Where are you located? Find an instructor to do an intro to scuba to see if it is something you want to do. I would not even advise you to buy a mask yet. Telling you to go buy a computer before you have even started is disgusting to me. It smacks of a pattern that will result in you spending money that you do not need to and taking advantage of someone.

Look up indentured servitude and see how it compares to this "internship". Which really it is not. Other industries don't make you pay to be an intern. Intern as used for stuff like this is a lie. It's a course you pay for in cash and sweat. If we get an intern at my regular job we provide them with the tools they need while they are there. And instruction in the use of them. But we do not make them pay to be there. Interns don't pay to learn. While they may not collect a paycheck they also do not feed our coffers with the money they do have.

[herbdb]

Deleted. Ditto what Jim said.

[DevonDiver]

Gotta agree with Jim's perceptions of the 'zero-to-hero' DM program. IMHO, no ethical company would demand such commitment (especially financial) from a customer who had zero diving experience, or clue whether they'll enjoy the activity (especially as a divemaster) or not.

With respect to computers... you don't need much functionality beyond what virtually any computer on the market will provide you with.

You need to know your depth, your dive time and your no-decompression limit (you'll find out what this is somewhere along the track to your professional credentials). It'll need to provide you with an ascent rate and a no-fly time. You'll probably want nitrox capacity up to 40% (hopefully you'll find out what this means before you qualify as a DM). You'll probably also want some form of illumination/back-light for night diving. You may very well need various depth, time and ascent alarm functions.

Separate analogue compass is generally preferable to an in-built digital one.
You won't need more than 1 gas mix capacity.
You won't need wireless/transmitter capability - but some divers do love their gadgets.
You won't need gauge mode.
You won't need a freedive mode for scuba - but may make use of it if breath-hold is your thing.
You won't need computer (USB) link - but some divers prefer an electronic, rather than paper logbook.

Watch sized units are convenient if you're wearing it day-in, day-out.

The Suunto D4 is a good model and not bad looking. I'd recommend having a look around on Ebay and Craigslist for a second-hand, older generation, edition though - something like the Suunto 'Stinger' or 'Mosquito'. They'll do what you need... and you won't be investing so much money in an unknown endeavor.

[CPH]

IF you have to have something then how about a simple Uwatec bottom timer. All you need for any diving.

[boulderjohn]

IF you have to have something then how about a simple Uwatec bottom timer. All you need for any diving.

Except that it does not meet the requirement for having a computer.

I agree with all those who say you should really think about why you are going into a program like this. I would first find out if I like diving.

[Jim Lapenta]

Every time I come back to this thread I get more pissed off at the unmitigated gall of that operation. Vultures is the word that keeps coming to mind.

[allens12]

Thank you for your concerns and honesty.

My motivation behind an internship is extremely personal, and is the result of what can only be described as both tragic and extremely malicious events, which took place towards the end of last year that greatly affected me for many months. My uni gave me the option, and advised me to take a year out and so here I am.

I have a great interest in many water sports, as well as qualifications, so diving is not a completely random choice. My flat mate and close friend of mine, a dm, first put me onto the idea of doing such an internship.

For me, it's an opportunity to leave the eu for the first time and explore somewhere completely new, a chance to add a new sport to the many I participate in and above all else, a prime opportunity to blank and recover from extremely disturbing images so that I may resume my studies at a later date with a refreshed mind. I'm in a position where I have a lot of time right now and little to do.. an unhealthy environment, so an internship is ideal. In fact, one which works me to the ground has the potential to be more beneficial to me. Regardless, I will be somewhere new and that is important to me.

The internship itself is largely cost free. The costs I incur are flight tickets (seeing that I want to travel it's not really a cost attributable to diving), dive computer, smb + reel, and dive knife. Everything else is provided and included from equipment, to somewhere to stay (which looks much nicer than any uni accomm I've seen, not particularly hard to beat mind you) and food, as well as all padi fees and materials I'll need to complete the course.

From where I am, given my situation, it's something worth doing. I'm simply trying to turn what has been a devastating year into something positive. Regardless of whether it's a pile of s..t, i have an opportunity to do something new and different. It is obviously not my intention to annoy anyone... Like I said, I'm trying very hard indeed to do something positive.

It's hard to say I'll enjoy something before even doing it, but given my extensive water sport history, general love of being in the water and huge appreciation for wildlife, I think I'll be good; so long as medically speaking I'm fine of course. I do not mean to disregard any advice, and have always had full intention to make sure I have a pool session/some sort of introduction before I spend any money, but chances are I'll be going even if I drown in the pool.

And chances are, they are vultures, but I don't think I care to be honest. I am hoping to gain far more than just diving out of this experience.

Thank you for the advice regarding a dive computer. Free dive mode may well be of interest to me in that case, and I'm also glad to hear that I only need a very basic comp since these things cost a fair bit. I will check out older models on ebay and see how that goes for the time being. Please feel free to leave any advice regarding a dive computer.

Kind regards.

[DevonDiver]

IF you have to have something then how about a simple Uwatec bottom timer. All you need for any diving.

I can just imagine a paying customer's reaction, when you enforce a square profile... unnecessarily short.... dive plan - because you've opted to go with a bottom timer and tables, rather than a dive computer. :rofl3:

[supergaijin]

I have owned a few different computers as an instructor, watch styles, hose integrated and wrist computers.

The best IMO is a Suunto Zoop or equivalent. I wear a G-Shock watch on my left wrist and the comp on my right. The stopwatch feature of the G-shock comes in handy as an instructor and sometimes as a guide when doing longer safety stops- I typically do 5mins. Many watch style computers have a stopwatch feature but it is inaccessible when the computer changes to 'dive mode'.

I'd look at ebay for a cheap Suunto- currently I have a Gecko which suits me fine for my kind of diving in tropical reefs. If and when you work as a DM or go to instructor you should be able to afford a new computer if you save for a few years :)

[rongoodman]

If I was going to buy a recreational dive computer, I would avoid Suunto, due to their reputation for excessive conservatism. I would not be happy as a paying customer to have a dive cut short because of the algorithm on the DM's computer.

[SeaHorse81]

Let's assume you first find that you do indeed like diving, then further feel inclined towards helping other divers, and then still feel like going into full Divemaster training. Even with all of that, there's no need to buy everything you'll need for being a DM before you've even had your first OW class.

I'm wondering why not just buy what you need for each level of certification as you get there, like we all do? I get bad feelings about an operation that would urge you towards an internship and all the expense of the related gear before they've even seen you in the water. It makes me suspicious of their standards and priorities.

[DevonDiver]

If I was going to buy a recreational dive computer, I would avoid Suunto, due to their reputation for excessive conservatism. I would not be happy as a paying customer to have a dive cut short because of the algorithm on the DM's computer.

Firstly, Conservatism is never a bad thing - especially as the DM's primary role is to keep customers safe.

Secondly, the DM is likely to be repetitive diving, day-in, day-out, for lengthy periods. Regardless of which computer he/she uses, it is likely to penalize them for the accumulation in slow-release compartments that will probably be controlling their dives. (We're talking intensive DM'ing is Asia here... not a weekender in the States).

Thirdly, I've used Suunto almost exclusively for the last 15 years. Never had a complaint from a customer. I always bring them up adequately for an NDL anyway... and it tends to be air-consumption that limits dives for the average customer, not NDL. The only time I've noticed the conservatism of my Suunto being a PITA was on repetitive deep, square profile wreck penetration dives, where my buddies Cochran gave him an extra 5 mins of NDL (first dive) and 10 mins of NDL (second dive).

Lastly, there's this stuff called 'Nitrox'... particularly useful for extending NDLs, should the dive profiles look likely to drive divers against them. Never a bad idea for a dive pro to utilise the proper tools, especially if they are doing deep dives, within a lengthy multi-day, repetitive dive workload.

Just saying....

[CPH]

I can just imagine a paying customer's reaction, when you enforce a square profile... unnecessarily short.... dive plan - because you've opted to go with a bottom timer and tables, rather than a dive computer. http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl3.gif

Maybe you should have taken a bit more notice on your Tech, wreck and sidemount coarses. You can easily re-calculate mulitlevel dives with a timer. But you already know that......don't you?

[Hatul]

If I was going to buy a recreational dive computer, I would avoid Suunto, due to their reputation for excessive conservatism. I would not be happy as a paying customer to have a dive cut short because of the algorithm on the DM's computer.

That's my thinking as well. I also like conservative but the Suuntos really penalize you on repetitive dives and it could cause a problem for you when you're leading dives. I know one Cozumel dive guide who sold his Suunto for exactly this reason. How about the Oceanics with dual algorithm?

It's unusual for someone with no diving experience to enroll in a course to become DM and then instructor, but then I've heard of people who became expert cave divers in a fairly short time, while I've been diving 15 years and am still just a recreational diver.

You need to check that the shop is not promising you something they cannot deliver in return for you paying big money for instruction. Most instructors I know of don't make much money teaching and it's a hobby for them, at least around here in California.

Adam

[DevonDiver]

Maybe you should have taken a bit more notice on your Tech, wreck and sidemount coarses. You can easily re-calculate mulitlevel dives with a timer. But you already know that......don't you?

I'd suggest spending a single day actually working as a DM, before posting pedantic and attempted patronising remarks to people who've spent over 30 years diving, 15 years technical diving and nearly as long working in the dive industry.

And yes,... with fear of sounding arrogant... I know an awful lot about dive planning... at all depth, involving most available means, electronic and otherwise... and have used that knowledge to conduct many hundreds of technical decompression dives. I've also managed to sustain an career in the dive industry - a success almost entirely dictated by strong customer support and word-of-mouth recommendations.

I've written a few of the courses I teach...so I guess a baseline knowledge should be assumed..

Sorry... what was your point?

Oh yes... bottom timers rather than computers. You won't find a single dive pro in Asia who runs dives from slates, during their day-to-day recreational guiding work. That'd be stupid and inefficient.

Expectantly awaiting some more pedantic nonsense... please don't disappoint xxx

[CPH]

Your posts do not show arrogance, it is the smilleys and kisses that do that. So nice from a moderator.
My comments on the timer was because as a DM you are not normally doing deco dives, so the calculations are quite simple. If the man has never been in the water yet, why not buy a cheep second hand timer and if he finds he wants more in the future he can either sell the timer or keep it for when his diving starts to progress.

Lastly, if you put a laughing smilly up then you should expect a response like the one you received. I have no questions over your abilitys, just the way you reply to things.