Ankle weights

[jcxd45]

Newb question about ankle weights.
I'm a fresh out of ow diver, bought some gear on craigslist, went to the lds and got enough weights to check out my buoyancy in a pool.
The book had me at 28-30 lbs so I got enough for 32 and split 30 between my bc and belt.
I had no problems in the pool and could hover easily but my feet kept wanting to float and I couldn't do a fun pivot.
I'm using a 7m wetsuit with atomic splitfins, and it seems like ankle weights are the obvious solution but I keep hearing they are bad and will tire you out.
Are they a good idea and if so how much weight should I use?
I'm also 6'2 and I hear that could be part of my problem.

[undrwater]

Ankle weights are generally a work-around, and are helpful to get you diving when you are trying to problem solve trim issues. You'll get lots of advice, but no one will fault you for being 6'2"! That is most definitely NOT your problem! :)

Happy diving!

[supergaijin]

Work on dropping weight until you're breathing out to descend and if using an aluminum tank, keep and extra couple of pounds to compensate for a lighter tank at the end of the dive.

Once down try to concentrate on moving your hips in or out (pelvic thrusts). You may get some odd looks but... Also moving the cam-strap up or down an inch or so may make a difference. Relax yourself completely underwater, see where you end up. Even if it somehow upside down, just go completely floppy like a dead man, then try small movements to get yourself in a 'proper' position.

I'd stay away from ankle weights and focus on getting your body balanced. Finally Jetfins are pretty heavy and you may find cheapish on ebay

[Teller]

New equipment purchase should be the last option you should exercise. Many thing can be adjusted to effect trim. Typically divers place the blame on equipment instead of looking at their own skills. You cant fix a skills issue with equipment. Spend some more time in the pool. If need be I would get a heavier fin before getting ankle weights. Good luck.

[Peter_C]

Do not put any weight in the upper trim pockets of your BC, assuming it has them. Instead use a weight belt for the majority of your weight which will bring it down lower on your body (Plus using a weight belt will allow you to doff and don your kit underwater without you floating like a buoy and your BC trying to hit the bottom). There is no way you need that much weight with a 7mm wetsuit, so as suggested start dropping weight until you find the right amount.

Also extend your legs out and head up to shift your body center of gravity more towards your feet.

[tomfcrist]

Peter, if this diver is not of average body composition, it is very much a possibility that this is close to the right weighting for him/her. Not saying that is the case, but remember that not all divers look like the models in the dive mags.

[TSandM]

At 6'2", you're a tall person, which means the weight of the tank is probably fairly high on your back. This is going to tend to push you head-down a bit, and the tendency will be compounded a lot if you also drop your head so that you are staring straight down. There is a limit to how low you can drop the tank, if you hope to be able to reach your own valve, so the advice on putting your weight low on your body is good. Do look at what is lower, your weight-integrated pockets or your waist, because putting weight on a belt is not always lower on your body than your weight pockets are!

30 pounds DOES sound a bit much for a 7 mil suit in fresh water, but if you are both tall and heavy, it could be required. Since you are doing the work to check your buoyancy, I would assume you have done it correctly, and you know how much weight you need.

I have certainly seen some of our students in wetsuits, using steel tanks, who end up needing some extra weight to keep their feet down. Ankle weights are an option, but they have the dual negatives of being something that's easy to forget, and also something that not infrequently comes loose. Negative fins are a bit easier to remember and are less likely to be lost, but obviously, replacing fins is much more expensive than buying a set of ankle weights.

A very reasonable approach might be to see what you can do with the tank and rig weights, and getting your head up, and see if you still feel you need some weight further down your body. Then try a set of ankle weights and see if they fix the problem; if they do, you could look into eventually switching to heavy fins. If you are going to dive actively in the PNW, I suspect you will not spend a long time as a wetsuit diver, so investing in heavy fins may be quite reasonable, as you will probably want them with a dry suit.

[coldwatercanada]

shifting the weight forward on your weight belt could help too

[eponym]

If you're diving wetsuited you'll find that your trim changes as you reach depths beyond what the pool offers. At thirty feet, for example, if you have long legs and a normal-length torso, compression of the neoprene may very well allow your feet to drop in line with your body. Without ankle weights.

Ask a buddy to observe you.

-Bryan

[Scubysnaps!]

Ankle weights prime use are for trilaminate dry suits where a squeeze in the lower legs is relieved by having a bit more air down there than usual combined with the weights...in my opinion

[boulderjohn]

My experience with instruction tells me that feet floating up on the fin pivot is the result of the diver not keeping the knees straight. back when the fin pivot per se was required by PADI, I had to spend much-too-much time dealing with people who bent their knees up unconsciously during the exercise.

That being said, there really isn't much of a call for the fin pivot in the real world, and having great form on that is not all that important. That is why PADI no longer requires having good fin pivot form. I am gong to recommend that you simply stop trying it. Instead, I strongly that you should instead focus on trying to achieve good buoyancy and horizontal trim while swimming in mid water.

[SubMariner]

I have certainly seen some of our students in wetsuits, using steel tanks, who end up needing some extra weight to keep their feet down. Ankle weights are an option, but they have the dual negatives of being something that's easy to forget, and also something that not infrequently comes loose. Negative fins are a bit easier to remember and are less likely to be lost, but obviously, replacing fins is much more expensive than buying a set of ankle weights.

A very reasonable approach might be to see what you can do with the tank and rig weights, and getting your head up, and see if you still feel you need some weight further down your body. Then try a set of ankle weights and see if they fix the problem; if they do, you could look into eventually switching to heavy fins. If you are going to dive actively in the PNW, I suspect you will not spend a long time as a wetsuit diver, so investing in heavy fins may be quite reasonable, as you will probably want them with a dry suit.

I am constantly puzzled by this prejudice against ankle weights. If a person requires extra weight because of "floaty feet" in either a wet or drysuit, what is the difference between ankle weights and heavier fins? The end result is the same except for the fact that the heavier fins are harder to move & increase diver fatigue.

Frankly, not everyone wants or needs "heavier fins": I certainly don't. I'm perfectly happy with the fins I have, that I can use with both my drysuit and wetsuit.

Once upon a time I needed ankle weights because I was diving a 5mm neoprene suit in TGWN. But once I switched to a membrane suit (trilam) I found that my lace on boots were de facto gators, and the floaty feet problem was solved without the need for ankle weights.

Please, no more "ankle weights bad; heavy fins good"!:shocked2:

[NWGratefulDiver]

Ankle weights are one solution ... and in most cases not the best one. In eight years of teaching I've had exactly one student who I felt truly needed them. Other solutions involve primarily how your weights (including tank) are distributed, and what you're doing with your body. Think of your body as a see-saw, and your waistline as the pivot of the see-saw. Moving your weights and your limbs changes how the see-saw will move ... whether it will go head-down, feet-down or remain in a balanced position. Using ankle weights can certainly affect a change, but is it the best solution?

Sometimes ... but not nearly as often as some would have you believe. The relevent question isn't whether ankle weights will resolve the problem ... but whether there are better solutions. Usually, there are ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[rick00001967]

i bought ankle weights at one point. my back had a hard time using a weight belt so i wanted to remove as much weight from the belt as i could. i strapped a 1.5 lb ankle weight to each leg just below the knee (instead of actually on the ankle). it worked awsome for me. it took some load off my bad back and i found it was a big help in keeping me in a more upright position while wearing my 5/4mm suit. i did not find them cumbersome at all and in no way was a problem. i have since switched gear and use a pretty heavy weight integrated bcd and only use a 1mm suit when i travel so i don't use the ankle weights anymore. but they did serve a good purpose for me when i need them.

[RonFrank]

Weighting via the internet is difficult. You have access to two great instructors, and one fantastic diver. TS (Lynne), Peter, and Bob. Plan a trip and work it out. It's what, 4 hours from Portland? I do 6 hours to dive a weekend more often than I like to admit.

These are awesome scuba folk even if I have never met them. They are great instructors and worth spending time with even if the privilege costs a few pesos!

[TSandM]

SubMariner, I thought I presented a couple of reasons to prefer heavy fins to ankle weights -- you're less likely to forget or lose them. Either requires more effort at the end of a long lever.

The bottom line is that you have to do what you have to do to achieve static balance. The first thing to fix is posture; the next thing to fix is the position of the tank and the normal weights (weight belt, integrated pouches, etc.). If you cannot achieve static balance with good posture and adjustment of normal weights, you can add things like ankle weights. I do think some people in thick wetsuits just plain need them, especially with Al tanks. In a dry suit, you can almost always solve the problem another way.

[cmburch]

I used ankle weights to get some lead off my belt. Mainly for hiking. Surface kicking they would tend to loosen and flop around a bit. I prefer a negative fin over a neutral. I disagree that negative fins are harder to use over a neutral or positive buoyant fins. Positive fins such as Seawing Nova are terrible for surface kicking for me. Too bad you are not local. I have 2 sets. I use to fly into Portland monthly and stay around Beaverton and Forest Grove. Now only a few times a year.

[spectrum]

A harness like a weight and trim will let you move your major lead below your natural hips. A little bit there can make a big difference.

Given your height I agree that cylinder position is a big opportunity, especially if you dive steel cylinders which remain negative. Cylinder buoyancy will wash out of your overall calculation but the property will drive the effect on trim.

Pete

[FinnMom]

I am constantly puzzled by this prejudice against ankle weights. If a person requires extra weight because of "floaty feet" in either a wet or drysuit, what is the difference between ankle weights and heavier fins?

I dive in club obganization. This means we are regularly in the water with a new crop of new divers every spring. This has caused me to be against ankle weights because
1) The need for them is usually temporary, therefore wasted money.
2) They do get forgotten at home/fall off/get lost a lot
BUT MOST OF ALL
with a new diver I hate having this source of negative bouyancy that both the diver and anyone trying to help might forget/fail to notice. This has come up when the diver takes off their BCD in water too deep to stand in because they are a) climbing into a zodiac b) practising doffing/donning gear at the surface c) practising rescue scenarios. When for whatever reason a person who thinks he should now be positively bouyant finds himself slipping under the water, some of them can get REALLY unhappy about it. Heavy fins at least help you regain/maintain the surface.

[cmburch]

I use my old ankle weights in a spare back-up pouch weight belt. If I need a little extra weight when hunting at shallow depths requiring a small weight, it is easier to handle a soft 1-2 lb with strap over a solid lead weight for me. This is especially true when diving from a kayak or board. So they are still in use, but not for my ankles. I thought they paid off for themselves due to their convenience until I got away from my first wetsuit; a very buoyant 7mm Farmer John. When freediving, I will rocket to the surface if I drop my 14lb belt while still wearing my 7lb weight vest. My ankle weights are only a total of 3-4lb maybe. I guess it depends on how buoyant you are from exposure suit if 3-4 lbs of lead will sink you.

[SubMariner]

SubMariner, I thought I presented a couple of reasons to prefer heavy fins to ankle weights -- you're less likely to forget or lose them. Either requires more effort at the end of a long lever.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Personally, I don't think constantly overloading your legs with heavier fins is the answer to any problem. I would much rather have the option of a lighter fin whenever possible.

FWIW, the only time I "misplaced" an ankle weight was when my hubby dropped it off the dive boat in 100+ feet of water. (Naw.... not going after THAT one!) IMHO a disorganized diver is just as likely to forget their fins as their ankle weights.



The bottom line is that you have to do what you have to do to achieve static balance. The first thing to fix is posture; the next thing to fix is the position of the tank and the normal weights (weight belt, integrated pouches, etc.). If you cannot achieve static balance with good posture and adjustment of normal weights, you can add things like ankle weights. I do think some people in thick wetsuits just plain need them, especially with Al tanks. In a dry suit, you can almost always solve the problem another way.

Agreed. However, in the absence of a pair of gaiters (or similar results using Rock Boots) there really isn't another alternative in a dry suit unless you go back to the heavier fins argument.

[JamesK]

Personally I feel to many people are concerned with "floaty" feet and ankle weights when in reality they don't need them at all! They feel their feet are floaty, but in reality they are in decent trim. For some reason a lot of new divers, and old divers for that matter, feel that if when you stop kicking you are not dang near standing up in the water, your feet must be floaty. I have seen instructors recommend ankle weights to students and then when I watched them dive they could not get horizontal at all and swam around at a 45 degree angle. After class they dove with me, removed the ankle weights, and then were in good trim. Just my 1.5 cents. Economy is bad, I have to save money so you are only getting 1.5 cents.

[TSandM]

I dove with a novice diver last night. She was wearing ankle weights, but that wasn't the whole reason why she was in 45 degree head-up trim whenever she was swimming. At the end of the dive, she said, "My legs are always squeezed and my arms are full of air!" I told her that was because she was feet-down all the time, and she said, "I don't want to let my feet go up, because they get floaty and I'm worried I'll do a feet-first ascent!" I think that's ankle weights in a nutshell.

BTW, it doesn't matter whether you use heavy fins or ankle weights -- you're putting mass at the end of a long lever either way, and they're probably an equivalent amount of additional work.