Diver dies in Sea of Cortez [Archive] - ScubaBoard - Scuba Diving Forum - Diving Social Network

View Full Version : Diver dies in Sea of Cortez


Sponsored Link
DandyDon
November 30th, 2003, 08:29 PM
This is always sad, even as rare as it is...

http://www.qctimes.com/internal.php?story_id=1020348&t=Local+News&c=2,1020348

New Scuba Board member "Nan" asked about her, a personal friend, in her third post - only hours after joining, and hasn't been back since. My sympathies to Nan and other friends & loved ones.

And an update...

http://www.qctimes.com/internal.php?story_id=1020869&t=Local%2BNews&c=2,1020869

But I gotta' say - that was the way to go. The lady started diving at 63, kept diving into her late 70s, and died doing what she loved. That's the way I wanta' go, not being tended in a nursing home.

don

brizzolatti
December 1st, 2003, 04:29 AM
THis is really sad and must have been devastating to those involved. Condolences to them all. But what an inspiration the lady was. A life well lived.

roturner
December 1st, 2003, 06:24 AM
dandydon once bubbled...
This is always sad, even as rare as it is...

http://www.qctimes.com/internal.php?story_id=1020348&t=Local+News&c=2,1020348

New Scuba Board member "Nan" asked about her, a personal friend, in her third post - only hours after joining, and hasn't been back since. My sympathies to Nan and other friends & loved ones.

And an update...

http://www.qctimes.com/internal.php?story_id=1020869&t=Local%2BNews&c=2,1020869

But I gotta' say - that was the way to go. The lady started diving at 63, kept diving into her late 70s, and died doing what she loved. That's the way I wanta' go, not being tended in a nursing home.

don

I've been diving in that area (a little further to the south, by Puerto Escondido) and even a mile offshore the surge can be heavy. On one dive we were getting funnelled through "canyons" or "crevices" in bottom formations at speeds that just about pull the mask off your face. Steering is still possible but stopping isn't. It's a wild ride but I can see how someone could easily collide with something and get knocked unconscious.

My sincere condolences to the friends and family.

R..

MikeFerrara
December 1st, 2003, 06:37 AM
Sounds like a great place for a 77 year old who always follows the divemaster to be diving.

I didn't get the impression she died doing what she loved. I got the impression that she died being bashed against the rocks and that her last moments were horrifying.
She might have made 100.

Cudabait
December 2nd, 2003, 05:49 PM
Sad...

I don't second guess diving accident deaths without having complete access to the investigative facts. Things are not always what they might seem. It would appear that Mr. Jones' actions were heroic, to say the least. He is probably troubled considerably that his efforts were not successful. Hopefully, he will realize that he was not a contributing factor and should not harbor feelings of guilt. I commend him for his valiant effort to save the woman.

Wingtip
December 2nd, 2003, 06:02 PM
Cudabait once bubbled...
I don't second guess diving accident deaths

Because you'll never get full access to the investigation.

Feel free to stick your head into the sand and pity the no-fault death. It's tragic to lose any diver, but what is truly sad is those that can't get past the touchy-feely issues of blame and remorse to learn lessons from tragedy and then apply those lessons to their own diving.

Cudabait
December 2nd, 2003, 06:13 PM
Wingtip,

I think you're trolling.....however, you are probably correct in saying that I will never see the facts. What you should know is that I investigate these types of accidents and as such I know what I said in my earlier post stands.

roturner
December 2nd, 2003, 06:18 PM
Cudabait once bubbled...
Wingtip,

I think you're trolling.....however, you are probably correct in saying that I will never see the facts. What you should know is that I investigate these types of accidents and as such I know what I said in my earlier post stands.

I'm curious. When you read the report weren't you able to form any sense of what happened?

R..

MikeFerrara
December 2nd, 2003, 06:35 PM
Wingtip once bubbled...


Because you'll never get full access to the investigation.

Feel free to stick your head into the sand and pity the no-fault death. It's tragic to lose any diver, but what is truly sad is those that can't get past the touchy-feely issues of blame and remorse to learn lessons from tragedy and then apply those lessons to their own diving.


I agree.

We never have all the facts and there often aren't witnesses. So? If we take what little we know and theorize to fill in the blanks what would we come up with? What are the risks in doing so? I say none. At worst we could improve in an area that wasn't the cause of this accident. That doesn't sound so bad. As long as we don't put any one in jail without the facts, I don't see a down side. Besides, in many of these accident there's more than enough to convince a jury that our story is correct. Maybe that's part of the problem too.


According to the article which could be bs....
1, We have A diver who according to her buddy like to stay above and behind which is the single worst place to be because it's your buddies blind spot.

2, We have a 77 year old in tough conditions. I would say that there is a pretty good chance that contributed.

3, We have yet another buddy seperation. Maybe hanging in the blind spot had something to do with that.

4, we apparantly have a standing plan to surface in the case of a seperation. Sometimes that's a goos plan and sometimes not. In a strong current you could end up in cuba or China that way

5, we have divers doing trust-me dives. It sounds like that's what the victim did most...follow the DM. That's not bad if you know what they're getting you into.

What don't we know?

Alot but we don't know when they were seperated. We don't know when or why the victim went to the surface. We don't know if the conditions were the problem or how big of a contributing factor.

I do know that buddy seperation is the MO and that panic is usually the last straw. Also the panic is usually over something that's anything but life threatening.

So if we took this PURE speculation that seems to fit the information presented in the article and decided to do a better job of teaching team diving like teaching them to use a side by side or a single file formation so they could more easily see each other... If we had some meaningful team diving performance requirements in training...If we more strongly discouraged these trust-me dives...could we really mess anything up?

I think not. As long as we don't use speculation to punish or prosecute, we can't get in any trouble fixing the wrong thing. At least we would have fixed something. As it is, and as usual we will address nothing and fix nothing because we don't have absolute proof of anything except that something may need to be fixed.

Sorry...just thinking on the keyboard.

Cudabait
December 2nd, 2003, 07:23 PM
Mike,

After reading your lengthy post "thinking on the keyboard" it would seem that we are on the same page. Any diving death is tragic. Maybe something could be fixed. However, I choose to approach it differently than you. I'm not going to speculate about something, or the actions someone may, or may not have taken, particularly, as you have said, without facts. Actually, from what I've read, the actual cause of death has not been determined. Probably drowning, only a post mortem will tell. (not likey in Baja Mexico)

Mike, I'm not trying to make a case one way or the other. It's a terrible tragedy, Mr. Jones did the best he could. Had it been you, (victim or rescuer) I would say the same thing. Regards,

Wingtip
December 2nd, 2003, 07:31 PM
I agree it's a tragedy when any diver is lost, and I mean no disrespect to the family, friends, or Mr. Jones who acted heroically to try and rescue/revive the victim. My deepest condolences go out to all of them.

As for the analysis of any accident I feel that more should be done to learn lessons and apply them. Of course the physical cause of death will be drowning, it seems shortsighted to focus on the coroner's findings. This was a trained diver with all the acroutements, training, and I assume experience required to participate and exist under the water, drowning simply implies that something in the training and equipment went askew and allowed water to enter the airway. Newsflash, that's what happens when something goes wrong. Looking deeper to identify what went wrong should be the objective in these "investigations."

Cudabait
December 2nd, 2003, 10:10 PM
Wingtip,

Thank you. Your last post totally supports my position. Your rapid assumption and assertion that the cause of death was by drowning due equipment malfunction or any other diver related action at this point is short sighted to say the leaast. Who are you to say that drowning could not have been preceeded by stroke or coronary thrombosis, each in itself could have caused drowning. Who are you to even imply that the victim was not already dead at the surface and, as such, preceeded the heroic efforts of Mr. Jones?

You guys have a great holiday. I,m not burning anymore of my life on this unfortunate lady,s demise. My warmest condolences to family and friends.

BigJetDriver
December 4th, 2003, 08:54 AM
MikeFerrara once bubbled...

2, We have a 77 year old in tough conditions. I would say that there is a pretty good chance that contributed.



“No matter how careful you are, how good your equipment, how complete your preparations, accidents can happen,” she said. “Katie knew this, and she used to say, ‘If I get killed diving, at least I’ll be doing something I love to do.’ ”

So, Mike, my question would be: "Do you have a cut-off age at which you would make people stop diving?"

Just curious, as they say.

BJD

MikeFerrara
December 4th, 2003, 09:10 AM
BigJetDriver69 once bubbled...




So, Mike, my question would be: "Do you have a cut-off age at which you would make people stop diving?"

Just curious, as they say.

BJD

Certainly not. As you of course know, though, we need to match the environments in which we dive with our abilities. Ability, which I would define as the combination of phisical condition and skill. is the determining factor, IMO. But some will follow the DM anyplace be it deep, inside wrecks, into coral caves or into strong currents.

drbill
December 4th, 2003, 02:16 PM
Since I head down to La Paz Sat for two weeks of diving, this was not good news. My condolences to the family and friends.

Although I'm a few decades younger than the diver who died, and recognize age can be a contributing factor, I have also dived with much younger divers whose recklessless was a larger factor in a potential fatal situation than my age.

Dr. Bill

Charlie99
December 4th, 2003, 04:40 PM
drbill once bubbled...
Although I'm a few decades younger than the diver who died, and recognize age can be a contributing factor, I have also dived with much younger divers whose recklessless was a larger factor in a potential fatal situation than my age. It's not clear to me that her age was a factor at all.

Etched into my memory is a dive briefing from a few years ago off the island of Lanai. The day before, a diver had swum beyond the point of a cove and had been swept away by a strong current. To keep from being carried further and further away, the diver swam to the shore and made a very dangerous exit onto lava rock being pounded by swells. The diver got beat up on the rocks, then mentally froze up in a mild state of shock. The DM & Captain repeatedly emphasized during their briefing that they knew which direction the current was going, to stay away from the shore break, and that if we got carried away by the current, to just get good and buoyant on the surface and "we'll just pick you up on our way back to Lahaina".

In the heat of the moment, which is the lesser of two evils isn't always obvious.

In the Sea of Cortez incident, since the diver didn't survive, we will probably never know whether she purposefully attempted to go ashore or whether the surge was so strong that she got washed into the rocks against her will.

OCdiving Deb
December 9th, 2003, 04:18 PM
On Monday, local diver Scott Jones relived that fateful moment of his rescue in the Sea of Cortez in Mexico. It was Jones' good fortune that "The Crocodile Hunter" Steve Irwin was also in the area that day. The moment was caught on videotape.

On the tape, you can hear Irwin during the rescue.

"On the rock...on the rock...on the Sea Lion Rock. The bloke is there but no sign of the woman....and it looks like he's hurt. (I'm) gonna radio the spotter plane...that's one down and one to go...but it looks like he's hurt."

For the rest of the story...
http://www.whbf.com/Global/story.asp?S=1547306&nav=0zGoJQko

kelphelper

Sponsored Link

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1