5' or 7' long hose for open water?

[Mantra]

Hi all.

I'm looking for opinions on hose setup stuff. Any input appreciated!

My buddy and I are looking at swapping to a long hose setup for our open water diving. We dive in jacket BCs and, although we might eventually swap to bp/w this isn't in our immediate future. The benefits of long hose just make sense so we're looking at flipping to that configuration rather than going full DIR.

We have a local TDI instructor who is willing to coach us in using the new configuration properly. He recommends going for a 5 foot hose rather than a 7, given we are wanting to use jacket BCs without a canister.

Sounds good to me. I know some agencies only recommend a 7' hose for all environments, including OW, and was wondering if anyone had thoughts on this before I pull the trigger and buy new hoses? Are there any downsides of a 5' versus a 7' that I should consider? Which option would you take?

Also, from what I understand, miflex can be a bit floaty in a long hose (notably a 7'). Anyone have an opinion on that?

Thanks.

[Jim Lapenta]

For open water only there really is no downside to the 5 ft. As long as you don't plan to be anywhere that would require you to share air while swimming out single file. I don't recommend braided hoses for anything over 40 inches. Too. Floaty, tend to take a set when coiled for any length of.time, and after a while under water they feel like sand paper on my neck as well as tend to.grab the hairs on the back of my neck.

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[Mantra]

Thanks so much, Jim. That's perfect.

[TSandM]

The one problem with the 5' hose is that, for people who are broad across the shoulders and chest, it may be uncomfortably short.

[Mantra]

The one problem with the 5' hose is that, for people who are broad across the shoulders and chest, it may be uncomfortably short.

That's a fair point and describes me. I'd also be interested in knowing if people thought the 5' routing required a swivel for correct reg positioning. I think I remember hearing that somewhere.

At the moment, I'm tempted to give the 5' a try and see how it practically suits. It's not the end of the world if I then end up buying a 7' in shame. But I'm not in any hurry, so am considering all the input here. Thanks, o Borgy Cupcakey one.

[peacock62]

I personally believe that certifying agencies should take a look at the ooa air share procedure. The 7' hose should become standard for all OW and overhead environments.
When a ooa diver needs air it should be a regulator you know is working! It makes the air share easier for divers to swim and adjust their buoyancy. IMHO

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[herman]

The 5ft is fine, I use one for everything from a jacket BC and swim suit to a back inflate and a dry suit. Unless you are very large or are doing single file swimming (like a narrow cave) there is rarely a need for a 7 ft hose....and you have 2 ft less hose to find a place to store.

[chrpai]

I went through this a week ago and here's what I've found:

1) One website (GUE I think) actually said a long hose wasn't needed in an O/W rec environment. Another site suggested 5' and another 7'.
2) I bought the 7' cause that's what came with the Hog single tank package.

Like those in this thread, I spoke to a local aquaintance (instructor, cave diver, cave instructor? not sure ) and he suggested 5' would be better for me and that he might have a hose to trade me to help out.

That said, I've had 4 dives with this rig now and I can't say that 7' seems to be any kind of problem. I don't own a canister so I put my shears over on might right hip. I wrap the hose under/behind that and across my chest and around my neck. Seems just right to be. I'm going to keep diving this until someone lets me try a 5'. If that seems better, I'll post back.

Oh and I'm 6'0" with a 44" waist for what that's worth. I'm not exactly DIR from a BMI perspective. (And many other perspectives...)

[chile7236]

i used a 5' hose for a while with no issues...then i just decided to use 24" hoses for my own convenience...if there's OOA situation, we're gonna be reeeeeeaaaaally close.

[danvolker]

Assuming you don't feel like spending a lot of money on a can light right now, the issue then is that with a 7 foot hose, it needs to be routed under something. That something is typically a can light....However, the 7 foot hose can ALSO be routed under a knife on the wastebad( put where a can light would go) or a big pocket on the wasteband..... This way, you have the increased flexibility of use available with the 7 foot hose, and none of the cost for the can light....Someday you may see some divers using can lights as buddy communication tools, and as seeing aids, and want to try this.....when you get to experience the buddy effectiveness of the can lights, you may well decide they are too cool to pass on....With the 7 foot hose, you are good either way.

[TSandM]

A 5' hose shouldn't need a swivel or adapter, because it wraps around the back of the neck just like the 7' hose does. If you use a 40" hose under the arm, you need a right-angle adapter to allow it to sit comfortably in the mouth.

[Jim Lapenta]

Just wanted to add that I have put a 6ft hose on as well for a diver that thought 7 would be too.long but at his size a 5ft too short. It's a special order but I can usually get it in a couple days or even have it drop shipped.

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[Randy43068]

Again, I haven't read through the posts. I always suggest the 7 foot hose. From personal experience and that of my team mates the 5 footer is simply too short to manage well during an air share in open water. The 7 foot hose allows the OOA diver more freedom of movement. Also note, we don't hang on to the OOA diver, either. They should be good enough to manage their place in the water column with out assistance. If they can't well that's a different story and you might have to hang on to them. No reason to half ass it for 2 feet of hose.


Hi all.

I'm looking for opinions on hose setup stuff. Any input appreciated!

My buddy and I are looking at swapping to a long hose setup for our open water diving. We dive in jacket BCs and, although we might eventually swap to bp/w this isn't in our immediate future. The benefits of long hose just make sense so we're looking at flipping to that configuration rather than going full DIR.

We have a local TDI instructor who is willing to coach us in using the new configuration properly. He recommends going for a 5 foot hose rather than a 7, given we are wanting to use jacket BCs without a canister.

Sounds good to me. I know some agencies only recommend a 7' hose for all environments, including OW, and was wondering if anyone had thoughts on this before I pull the trigger and buy new hoses? Are there any downsides of a 5' versus a 7' that I should consider? Which option would you take?

Also, from what I understand, miflex can be a bit floaty in a long hose (notably a 7'). Anyone have an opinion on that?

Thanks.

[halocline]

Eventually someone will start stocking 5'4" and 5'6" hoses, which are perfect for larger people wanting to try the modified hogarthian routing for OW. I suggest you start by getting a coupler for a few bucks and just connect two hoses together. That way you can find out what just the right length is and order one; I don't think there's any problem getting a custom length hose from the trident catalog. If anyone tells you that you're being dangerous by introducing an extra connection point in the hose for a few dives, you can politely remind them that there are literally dozens of o-rings in the air path of almost any scuba set up...tank neck, tank/valve, HP seat retainer, yoke/din retainer, HP piston, turret retainer, LP piston, all port plugs or hoses attached to the 1st stage, all hoses at the other ends, anything in the 2nd stages, etc....and that two extra is probably not a death sentence.

For me the 5' hose is fine but I wouldn't mind having a couple of extra inches, not a couple of feet, when I'm in a thicker wetsuit and with certain 2nd stages. (D series) I'm definitely not a large person. The 7ft hose is really unnecessary for OW diving and presents a significant routing problem. I have one as well for use with doubles in overhead, and I can tell you from experience that tucking the damn thing in a waistbelt is not nearly as comfortable or convenient as just using the right length hose for OW. Did someone really suggest getting a canister light (which could easily cost $800-1000) and weigh a couple of pounds) just to help with routing for a 7ft hose? :shocked2:

[chrpai]

Somewhat... he suggested 2 canisters (2x $$$ ) for buddy communications. To be fair, he also suggested a dive knife. That's what I do. $20 for some shears that slide onto my webbing and secured by a couple triglides. Hose comes down, around, across and over / around and it doesn't seem like a problem to me.

Still, everyone keeps saying 5' so hopefully I'll get a chance to try it.

[ZKY]

You guys are forgetting that he's going to be using a jacket which probably means no way to slide a can light (even if he had one) or a dive knife on a waistbelt, there is no 2" waistbelt, just a big cloth pocket I'm guessing since it's a jacket.
What I've done in the past using a 5' was to run the primary hose out the end of my 1st stage on a MK 20 and point the end of the 1st stage down at a 45 degree angle down and to the right which sends the hose down in the right trajectory to go under the arm. I also set the tank a little lower for better trim. Those things combined gives a few more extra inches in length and I could get away with a 5 foot hose. I'm tall and a bigger guy too.

[rhwestfall]

for $5.00 you can clip a hose holder on something at waist level (seems even a BC will have a ring of some sort on the bottom), and hose storage becomes no problem. I've found it to be real handy that way.....

oh, if the hose slips in the clip, but 2 zip ties 2" apart on the hose, one each side....

I was amazed at how simple the 7' hose integrated into my diving.

[DevonDiver]

The one problem with the 5' hose is that, for people who are broad across the shoulders and chest, it may be uncomfortably short.

I concur with that - tried a 5' hose but it wouldn't loop properly, given that I'm of broad physique. Only 7' works nicely for me.

[James R]

Somewhat... he suggested 2 canisters (2x $$$ ) for buddy communications.

Do you mean, by this post, that he said you should have two can lights for "buddy communications?":confused:

[Aqua-Andy]

As for the swivel I need it for a 5' or 7' hose, not exactly a swivel per say but a 70* elbow. a picture of me with a 7'hose and no adapter and with adapter, way more comfortable.125154

Well the other one is my avatar, I can't find it in my computer again, but with the elbow it is way more comfortable "for me".

[Bigd2722]

I dove with both and preferred the 7'. I have miflex and love it

[buddhasummer]

Another option:

I use a bungeed backup on a 22" hose and use a 44" primary routed under my arm with a 90degree adapter. I like this configuration. I tried the 5ft hose and found it a little short and I'm a small guy. Haven't tried a 7ft. I only dive rec OW. Good luck.

[TSandM]

The only problem with the 40+ inch hose is that it's not nearly as comfortable to swim side by side. Even the 5' hose is a bit short for comfort, but it isn't bad. If all you ever intend to do is share gas and immediately ascend, the 40 inch hose works fine for a head-to-head ascent, but not so well if you have to do it side by side (in current, for example). Of course, if you ascend vertically, it isn't an issue.

[eelnoraa]

If you have bp/w, you should go with 7' hose even you dont' have a canister. Just stuff the extra hose under waist harness. It is out of the way and you won't even know it is there. When you need to donate, the extra 2' come in quite handy. So there isn't really any down side to 7" here.

Now, if you have a jacket, you are not likely to be able to stuff the hose under the cumberbum depending on your jacket. In that case, go with a shorter hose so nothing will dangle. I say shorter hose, not necessary 5". It really depend on your physique, exposure suit, 1st stage routing, tank height, etc. It is better to test it out before tho choose one.

[Ulfhedinn]

I first purchased a 5'.. then I chose a 7'... I have never looked back. The 5' is in a box in my garage.

[idive2]

They do make a 6 foot hose but you have to look around a bit. I found the 5 ft really a bit short when routed
and the 7 ft more than I needed for recreational stuff so went with a 6 ft. I'll recheck my length and try to figure
out where I ordered it from. The reg is in for service right now or I would measure it to be sure it was 6 ft. but
I'm pretty sure it is.

[danvolker]

You guys are forgetting that he's going to be using a jacket which probably means no way to slide a can light (even if he had one) or a dive knife on a waistbelt, there is no 2" waistbelt, just a big cloth pocket I'm guessing since it's a jacket.

Weight belt? Knife sheath for routing? Or pocket. I now this is less ideal than the waist belt of a harness, but considering the compromise of a vest bc, this compromise should be insignificant.... :-)

[ZKY]

Weight belt? Knife sheath for routing? Or pocket. I now this is less ideal than the waist belt of a harness, but considering the compromise of a vest bc, this compromise should be insignificant.... :-)
Every one of those jackets I see hanging in a dive shop appear to me to be weight integrated, so no weightbelt.
And knife sheaths, I don't know of one that will have a sheath attachment point down on the lower right side on the pocket or weight integration pouch where the hose needs to route. I see sheath attachment points sideways on the front somewhere usually.
But then I'm not totally up on the latest jacket BC because I haven't used one in 13 years so maybe there are ways to secure routed a 7' hose using one? I don't know.
Maybe someone could come up with a special adapter that attaches somehow so people can use a 7' hose with a jacket, but then when it's all said and done and all the hassle involved and fabrication time why not just get the real thing?

[danvolker]

Every one of those jackets I see hanging in a dive shop appear to me to be weight integrated, so no weightbelt.
And knife sheaths, I don't know of one that will have a sheath attachment point down on the lower right side on the pocket or weight integration pouch where the hose needs to route. I see sheath attachment points sideways on the front somewhere usually.
But then I'm not totally up on the latest jacket BC because I haven't used one in 13 years so maybe there are ways to secure routed a 7' hose using one? I don't know.
Maybe someone could come up with a special adapter that attaches somehow so people can use a 7' hose with a jacket, but then when it's all said and done and all the hassle involved and fabrication time why not just get the real thing?
What I meant was the jacket BC owner just buys an old fashioned weight belt ( $8 max) and a knife with sheath can slide on the right side...or, a pocket can go on it. Just because the guy has a weight integrated bc, does not mean that he can't have a weight belt on.... And I personally hate the stupid soft weight weight belts any way. The old styles are cheap and better, and last forever. The slicker version is the freedive weight belt version, which is made from rubber so the belt stretches, and it has a nice quick release on the buckle....( freediver insurance for if they are afraid they stayed down too long/worked too hard, and that shallow water blackout is a threat--in which case they instantly drop their weightbelt so they are buoyant). These belts are also very comfortable, and much better than the nasty soft weightbelt concept of the scuba industry.

[ZKY]

Yeah that is a good point that a regular weightbelt could be used, however many of the newer jacket designs are built lower and longer to accomodate weight integration so using a weightbelt may interfere with the bottom part of the BC unit. I remember starting with a Black Diamond way back and that was one of the reasons I got rid of it (amongst others) was because I couldn't use a weightbelt with it very well.
The older original jackets before weight integration were designed to use weightbelts but they didn't go down as far either, they stopped more around the navel area which still left room for a weightbelt to be properly placed.
I don't even know if a non integrated jacket can still be found? Maybe somebody who knows can chime in.
But I guess it could be done in a pinch. I'm still seeing a problem with the weight pocket/storage pocket interfering with a knife and sheath on a weightbelt. It seems to me that the lower part of a modern jacket will either cover over the knife and sheath or hang up on it.

[Mantra]

Hey all! Thanks again for the great discussion. Yes, I have a weight-integrated jacket BCD. It's an oceanic probe. My knife is attached to the left flank of the bcd via dedicated knife attachment points, but I do like to carry shears also, so could perhaps move them to the right spot.

If I were to go with a weight belt, then the rubberized ones sound awesome from the discussions I've read dumpsterdiver and ts&m have about them. The idea of an extra belt just to route the hose seems complicated to me. Does anyone know of a picture of this? Also, if I were to move my shears to, say, a carabiner on my right hip D-ring on the bcd, would that work? Would it interfere with deploying the shears when needed?

[peacock62]

I'm not sure about all the hose routing under your can light or knife sheath.
In the event of an air share your primary needs to be quickly and smoothly deployed. If it is behind a light or under a knife you will not deploy it smoothly. The additional hose length can simply be tucked in your waist belt.
No snag points. Your shears can be put in a pocket, no need to hang on a D ring.
Jacket style BC, back plate and wing should make little difference in hose placement. You should also discuss your ooa situation with whomever you are diving with before each dive. Perform an S drill to familiarize both of you.

[halocline]

Buying a hose that's 2 feet longer than you need for the environment you're diving in just does not make any sense IMO. You almost certainly will notice a big loop of hose under your waistbelt, at least I do. 7ft is for single file air sharing through restrictions, and its really not necessary in OW, and does not rout nearly as well for anyone even close to a normal size in recreational gear. I agree the 5 ft hose is a few inches short, but I'm about as average as it gets size-wise and it's okay for me. And a few inches extra is nothing like 2 feet extra.

Really the best way to try the long hose is with the coupler; it's only a few bucks and you can join together any length hose you want, then when you find the perfect length, order one. Actually IMO there's no problem just diving with the coupler for that matter, just keep up with the o-rings and it's highly unlikely you'll ever get a leak.

[rivers]

I'm not sure about all the hose routing under your can light or knife sheath.
In the event of an air share your primary needs to be quickly and smoothly deployed. If it is behind a light or under a knife you will not deploy it smoothly. The additional hose length can simply be tucked in your waist belt.
No snag points. Your shears can be put in a pocket, no need to hang on a D ring.
Jacket style BC, back plate and wing should make little difference in hose placement. You should also discuss your ooa situation with whomever you are diving with before each dive. Perform an S drill to familiarize both of you.

Not an issue. You donate your primary without deploying the excess hose until the reg is safely in the OOA diver's mouth.

[peacock62]

And you have added a failure point with the coupling.

[BDSC]

I don't even know if a non integrated jacket can still be found? Maybe somebody who knows can chime in.

ScubaPro makes one called the "Pilot" I think.

[kidsdream]

It totally appropriate to route your long hose behind your primary (can) light. Properly trained you can hand it off and move from around the light (and your neck) in one motion.

This is the standard for tech, wreck and cave divers diving backmount tanks.

Jeff


I'm not sure about all the hose routing under your can light or knife sheath.
In the event of an air share your primary needs to be quickly and smoothly deployed. If it is behind a light or under a knife you will not deploy it smoothly. The additional hose length can simply be tucked in your waist belt.
No snag points. Your shears can be put in a pocket, no need to hang on a D ring.
Jacket style BC, back plate and wing should make little difference in hose placement. You should also discuss your ooa situation with whomever you are diving with before each dive. Perform an S drill to familiarize both of you.

[PfcAJ]

Not an issue. You donate your primary without deploying the excess hose until the reg is safely in the OOA diver's mouth.


^ This. Its super easy to get in a rush and pull the reg out of the OOG diver's mouth while deploying the long hose. The extra length only comes out after the reg is secured in the OOG diver's mouth, and everyone is relatively calm and collected.

[ZKY]

The whole concept of a long hose was developed into a style by tech and DIR based diving. They train heavily on not getting in a rush and getting flustered. They do drills ad nauseum to develop an automatic memory to be able to smoothly and swiftly deploy a long hose reg in a situation and many other skills
This is why I raise an eyebrow once in a while to those who want to use a 7 footer but aren't willing or able to fully understand and train themselves or use the correct combination of gear to be able to properly use a 7 footer. Part of that equation is using a rig that has a 2" webbing so that a can light, which BTW was one of the original components of the system that was an integral part of the configuration not only for light power but as a means to route the hose. The knife went somewhere else.
Some other compromise IMO is not really the best idea I don't think. Yes, then you are asking for problems trying to deploy the reg if the hose is getting all hung up on some rinky dink system that kind of works. It becomes a compromised and bastardized system.
I would say if you want to a long hose just use a 5 footer, maybe a 6, and wrap it under your arm, across the chest, and behind the neck and around to your mouth and forget about trying to hook it under something on the lower right side. With a jacket you cant even stow the extra hose in the waistband because there isn't one.

[lamont]

i've only ever dove a 7' long hose. even before i had a can light i used to just stuff it under my waist belt. if you can't afford to experiment with both, i'd say go for 7, but i can't predict what diving you'll actually wind up doing and what you'll like. i think its most likely that the 7' hose will pay off better in the long run if you stick with it, but YMMV.

[ferris213]

I dive with a five foot hose, I tried a swivel but it didn't work for me. It routes nicely and has no excess to deal with. I haven't tried a seven foot so I can't compare them but what I have works for my diving.

You're welcome to try it when we finally catch up for that dive.

[Fish-R-Man]

I use a 5' hose and it works fine for me in O/W. I looked into using my 7' hose on my wifes BC. Most BC's come with drain holes in the pockets. My though was to install a small length of bungie between the drain holes so that it laid flat against the BC, parallel to the base of the pocket. You could also hot melt a couple holes in a more convenient location and do the same thing. You could then slip the extra hose loop under the bungie which should hold it firmly against the BC pocket......

[halocline]

And you have added a failure point with the coupling.

You mean in addition to the 'failure points' at the tank neck, burst disc, valve o-ring, all the o-rings in the first stage including one at every port plug, all other hose o-rings including the swivel at each 2nd stage, LP inflator, HP spool o-rings at the SPG, and all o-rings in the 2nd stages?

[couv]

....just think of all the failure points we could eliminate by breathing directly off the tank valve.

[tflaris]

Hi all.

I'm looking for opinions on hose setup stuff. Any input appreciated!

My buddy and I are looking at swapping to a long hose setup for our open water diving. We dive in jacket BCs and, although we might eventually swap to bp/w this isn't in our immediate future. The benefits of long hose just make sense so we're looking at flipping to that configuration rather than going full DIR.

We have a local TDI instructor who is willing to coach us in using the new configuration properly. He recommends going for a 5 foot hose rather than a 7, given we are wanting to use jacket BCs without a canister.

Sounds good to me. I know some agencies only recommend a 7' hose for all environments, including OW, and was wondering if anyone had thoughts on this before I pull the trigger and buy new hoses? Are there any downsides of a 5' versus a 7' that I should consider? Which option would you take?

Also, from what I understand, miflex can be a bit floaty in a long hose (notably a 7'). Anyone have an opinion on that?

Thanks.

5'


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[rongoodman]

They do make a 6 foot hose but you have to look around a bit. I found the 5 ft really a bit short when routed
and the 7 ft more than I needed for recreational stuff so went with a 6 ft. I'll recheck my length and try to figure
out where I ordered it from. The reg is in for service right now or I would measure it to be sure it was 6 ft. but
I'm pretty sure it is.

Six foot hose. (http://northeastscubasupply.com/store/index.php?_a=product&product_id=89)