Apeks XTX200 VS. Zeagle Flathead LT

[Immanuel Debeer]

Hi everyone i'm in the market for my first reg and have narrowed it down to these two:
Apeks XTX200 and the Zeagle Flathead LT. I would like to get some opinions from people who own any of these regs. Price wise i can get both for the same price so it's of no importance.

Some points i'd like to know more about:
• environmentally sealed vs no seal.
I'm not planning to do any ice diving anytime soon, so is there any need for a sealed first stage? I heard a seal can bring the performance down a little?
• The amount of HP and LP ports 4 -2 on Apeks 5 -2 on Zeagle, will i need that many? (i would like this reg to be an investment to last me some time)
• Servicing, i hear Apeks servicing in Australia is of the charts where as with zeagle you can do it your self?
• Looks, in your opinion which is the better looking reg? ( yes this is important :P )
• Weight? which one is heavier bulkier etc. I've only seen the Zeagle reg in "real life".
• Octopus: i like the idea of the Zeagle inflator hose/ocy combo. what do you guys think if this kinda setup? (i dive a Zeagle Stiletto).
• Ease of breathing? I'm sure they are both awesome at the job but are there any issues people have experienced in regards to free flowing or leaks
over time?
• Which one has the most comfortable mouth piece?
• Anything else i missed lol?

Fire away!

Thanks for your feedback and opinions!
Regards,
Manny.

[Capt.Gene]

Zeagle was the USA distributor for Apeks for 12 years and built the reputation and market for the product in the USA.
Both are excellent products and fully proven. The new Zeagle regulators are a result of Zeagle's experience with the engineering of the Apecs units. There are differences.
Both are environmentally sealed because they are diaphram designs. The spring and spring pad being exposed to the dive environment are no issue what so ever unless water could freeze to ice and restrict compression of the spring that you see when looking into the diaphram end of the regulator body. Weight nearly identical.
The environmental kit that results in the advertised "Overbalanced" regulator offers no real world performance improvement, but does add more weight and expence if those are good things.
Appearance is subjective. Not everyone will think one girly prettier than another.
Mouthpieces are replaceable and you might well find an aftermarket part that you like better than OEM on either regulator.
I do like and use a combo unit octo and inflator myself. I have for over 10 years and have found no issues with my selection.
New gear is expected to function properly and your job will be to properly maintain the gear in new working condition. You can purchase service kits for the Zeagle regulators here in the USA. I no longer sell Aqualung products. I don't know much about parts availability outside my geographical area.
Your Stiletto was a great choice by the way. My personal favorite.

[Immanuel Debeer]

Thanks for your reply Captain! What is the difference between the Flathead LT and the Flathead 7, is it only the seal on top and price? I'n your opinion does the top seal reduce performance? If so would you notice it?
So i'm thinking at this stage that the big selling point is gonna be the cost of anual servicing... I hear Apeks charges through the roof for basic parts where as with Zeagle you can DIY it. Out of interest, how much do you sell Zeagle for over there in the states (i'd like to compare it to my LDS) and do you know roughly how much Apeks servicing costs these days?

Thanks for your feedback!

Manny.

[Capt.Gene]

Thanks for your reply Captain! What is the difference between the Flathead LT and the Flathead 7, is it only the seal on top and price? I'n your opinion does the top seal reduce performance? If so would you notice it?
So i'm thinking at this stage that the big selling point is gonna be the cost of anual servicing... I hear Apeks charges through the roof for basic parts where as with Zeagle you can DIY it. Out of interest, how much do you sell Zeagle for over there in the states (i'd like to compare it to my LDS) and do you know roughly how much Apeks servicing costs these days?

Thanks for your feedback!

Manny.

The cold water FH7 also has a metal heat exchanger around the hose end where it enters the regulator 2nd stage. This adds weight but doesn't impact performance either way.
The environmental diaphram can be removed if you want to see if you can discern any difference in performance. I bet you cannot.
It is the added volume of air under the hydrostatic diaphram compressing that pushes on the transmitter and increases the intermediate supply pressure. A diver will not notice any difference in cracking effort as this comes from the 2nd stage adjustment. A higher supply pressure at depth will not be relevent to the diver unless you have need of extra air flow. Maybe you have could tell the diference at 200 feet or something crazy if you had multiple divers on 2nd stages.
The FH7 costs $652
The LT costs $609
The parts kits, 345-10001st stage $28.00
The 345-2000 2nd stage kits cost $16.50
Here in the USA service kits are provided to the origional owner at no charge when we service the regulator.
Gene

[HenrikBP]

I don't know anything about the Zeagles, so I'll just speak to the Apeks;

I bought an XTX200 set as my first regs, and have been nothing but pleased;

- they breathe exceptionally well
- are very well made - solid materials and great workmanship.
- the hose routing on the first stage is simple and elegant. I often wonder at other regs with hoses jutting out all over the place.
- plenty of ports for single tank use, even if you dive dry and need an inflator hose
- I like the environmental sealing - not that I dive very cold water - just that I like the thought that no "crud" makes it into the reg :)
- very nice looking piece of kit as well.

I'm not a big fan of the "Safe Second" set-ups. Partly because a few divers I've met with those didn't realize how things were going to work if they needed to share air. But then I dive a long hose and bungeed back-up rig - so I admit to being quite biased in that direction :D . If you do go with a "Safe Second", please make sure you practice with it and that the inflator hose is long enough for you to comfortably dive/breathe it and that your primary LP hose is long enough for another diver to (relatively) comfortably breathe from it.

Henrik

[keyshunter]

I have used both Zeagle (non-Apeks) and Apeks. Zeagle makes a fine reg, but if the price is the same (or close) I would definitely take the Apeks.

[elan]

I can say its a tough call. From the performance point of view they are both great regs. It gets down more to personal preference.
I have several flatheads VI which is internaly the same as 7. They are workhorses. I also have an FST with ATX and i works great.
The older ZX second did not have a nice mouthpiece Im not sure about the new Z

Where zeagle has an edge is the kits availability and price.
And also what is hard to beat is zeagles support. Within 24 hours I was getting a detailed reply to my inquiry from "the very" Jim Fox - Zeagle head engineer.

From all the second stages I have The most I like is SP250v then Apeks XTX then Apeks ATX then Zeagle ZX

If I was buying Apeks I would be looking at XTX50/DST on zeagle side DS-V you are not losing anything and saving money.

[buddhasummer]

Both make fine regs and as others have said you will not go wrong with either. I own XTX200 (wel actually FSR 1st stage and 2x XTX50 2nds) and have been very happy had them for around 5 years. As Henrik said very nice hose routing for single tank diving. Good luck.

[HenrikBP]

Oh, forgot to mention; The Apeks ComfoBite mouth piece is the best I've tried. For me it completely eliminates jaw tension and the feeling of having to "bite down" to keep the mouth piece in place. There are (or used to be ??) 2 versions: the original with a "bridge" connecting the 2 bite wings and a v.2 that have similar bite wings but no bridge.

Either works well, but I like the "bridge" version. Some people apparently gag when trying the "bridge" version, so that's something to keep in mind at least for the regulator you will be donating in case of an air share.

Henrik

[buddhasummer]

Ditto on the ComfoBite, until I lost one of my near back teeth now, I have a gap and the ComfoBite tends to rotate through the gap. Went to a Seacure despite Seacure saying they cannot be used on Apeks, read another poster saying he used on Apeks without problem, tried one but it didn't seal properly, shame as it solved the "rotating" problem. Another poster suggested putting an O ring on the neck to help it seal better haven't tried that yet but will. Failing that will try a standard long bite mouthpiece. Sorry for the ramble.

So have you decided on which reg?

[Immanuel Debeer]

I don't know anything about the Zeagles, so I'll just speak to the Apeks;

I bought an XTX200 set as my first regs, and have been nothing but pleased;

- they breathe exceptionally well
- are very well made - solid materials and great workmanship.
- the hose routing on the first stage is simple and elegant. I often wonder at other regs with hoses jutting out all over the place.
- plenty of ports for single tank use, even if you dive dry and need an inflator hose
- I like the environmental sealing - not that I dive very cold water - just that I like the thought that no "crud" makes it into the reg :)
- very nice looking piece of kit as well.

I'm not a big fan of the "Safe Second" set-ups. Partly because a few divers I've met with those didn't realize how things were going to work if they needed to share air. But then I dive a long hose and bungeed back-up rig - so I admit to being quite biased in that direction :D . If you do go with a "Safe Second", please make sure you practice with it and that the inflator hose is long enough for you to comfortably dive/breathe it and that your primary LP hose is long enough for another diver to (relatively) comfortably breathe from it.

Henrik


Thanks for sharing Apkes experience, how do you find the price of servicing (anual check up) on the XTX200? Is it really as expensive as some people try make me believe? I know Zeagle has some of the easiest and cheapest servicing around especially because you can get a DIY kit and with a bit of training your're good to go. Is it possible to learn how to service the Apkes units your selve or will this void warranty?

And yes i've been thinking more about that integrated second stage, it does seem a bit awkward to have to control buoyancy and breathing in an emergency situation :)

Cheers,
Manny.

---------- Post added ----------

Thanks for all your feedback people! It's making my discussion making a little easier haha (or is it?... :blinking:)
Yes i realize that the XTX50 and that are basically the same... problem is i'm a sucker for a bit of bling haha so i don't mind paying for it :P

How do you find the servicing prices for the Apkes XTX200?

Cheers for your feedback!

---------- Post added ----------

Thanks for all your feedback people! It's making my discussion making a little easier haha (or is it?... :blinking:)
Yes i realize that the XTX50 and that are basically the same... problem is i'm a sucker for a bit of bling haha so i don't mind paying for it :P

How do you find the servicing prices for the Apkes XTX200?

Cheers for your feedback!

---------- Post added ----------

Not 100% decided yet but i'm leaning more and more to the Apeks.
The XTX200 was my initial choice until i had a chat with my local Zeagle dealer and he got my thinking about the Flathead LT.

Now after reading all the comments i really do like the idea of the environmental seal, i do a bit of shore diving and just donw like the idea of sand and other stuff getting in there, i'm sure it won't matter that much but having it nice and dry sounds a lot better. I also do like the look of the Apeks a tad more than the Zeagle ( i know this shouldn't be the deciding factor haha)
Apeks is just that little more bad ass looking ha!

Also been hearing good things about the hose routing, i hate current rental i use every weekend it's just awkward (some basic oceanic reg)

The other thing is i ordered it a few weeks ago and only recently got sidetracked by the Zeagle as it does seem like a worthy contender plus the idea of servicing it your selfe appeals to me.

The LDS i ordered from does have the best price out there i think... For the XTX200 and XTX40 octo set $675 but the initial "yes we can get it in a couple of days has now turned into 2 weeks... arghh


But please keep your findings coming i'm interested to see what other people think about these to regs :D

Cheers,
Manny

[jar546]

I have the Apeks XTX200, dive both cold and warm water and love the reg. It is solid and dependable and durably made. I serviced it myself (in a regulator class) and if you buy new and get it inspected annually, you have parts for free for life under their warranty. I have had no issues and the performance has been great.

As an FYI, I also have some HOGS environmentally sealed and they breathe even better.

[HenrikBP]

I don't take my regs in for service - I do my own service :) That is, I've been working on older SP regs, and will tear into my FSR/XTX regs shortly. So I don't know about pricing for servicing.

I've been able to find service kits for the Apeks regs - takes a bit of looking around, but it's doable. They cost about the same as the kits I've bought for the SP regs.

---------- Post added ----------

Oh, about the mouth piece; that's one of my personal issues with the "safe second" - in addition to managing ascent/venting/breathing from the same device:

If you're using a safe second, you will/should be donating your primary regulator. If you have a custom shape SeaCure mouth piece (for example) and need to donate, there is a very real possibility that the recipient may have problems fitting the mouth piece in his/her mouth, and breathing from it. I've seen the "tough diver" responses, that "if they want air, they'll breathe from anything", but my personal opinion is that I would much rather not add more stress to an already "iffy" situation.

[ams511]

Why not just get the XTX 50 and save some cash?

[Immanuel Debeer]

So i decided to go with my first decision and got the Apkes XTX 2000 XTX 40 Octo package, so far so good. I have done one dive so far and i'm really liking it so far. I did have a bit of leakage coming from the ocy at the surface, this reduced when diving deeper. How do i tweak it? My leaver was set to - (minus).

Also something that i don't understand... why are the labels and logos upside down when the reg is installed? Or did i just set it up wrong? (lol)
126663

[ams511]

I think you set it up wrong. I do not have an XTX 200 but I have an older TX100 and the logos are right side up.

[elan]

I believe on the 200 the diaphragm should be up for the logos to be oriented properly. I would still keep it the way you have it as the diaphragm is more protected looking down.

Ask your shop to downtune your octo. I always down tune my apeks as the way it is setup is too sensitive and always flows on the surface if you have the diaphragm hitting the water first :)

[elan]

I think you set it up wrong. I do not have an XTX 200 but I have an older TX100 and the logos are right side up.

Yeah the 100 has it the other way

[Immanuel Debeer]

Thanks for the quick feedback guys! Yes i had a feeling it was upside down (mostly due to the fact the logos where upside down, which i thought would be a bit silly on the design teams behalve) But i noticed the reg was breathing a little wet wich is something that happens when you use it upside down if i'm not mistaken. On other regs like the zeagle and oceanic that i've seen the environmental seal is facing down. I emailed a picture to apkes and they said it was set up incorrect also.

Which set up is correct and what are the pros and cons?

Cheers,
Manny.

---------- Post added ----------

could you post a picture of your setup. I had a feeling my LDS installed it upside down lol

[elan]

Thanks for the quick feedback guys! Yes i had a feeling it was upside down (mostly due to the fact the logos where upside down, which i thought would be a bit silly on the design teams behalve) But i noticed the reg was breathing a little wet wich is something that happens when you use it upside down if i'm not mistaken.

You are a bit mistaken :) Wet breathing can happen on some regs when the second stage is upside down. For the first stage it does not matter how it is oriented.

[Immanuel Debeer]

that makes sense :) I guess ill just have to try it "the right way" round next weekend. When turned the "correct way" the hose routing makes better sense tho even tho the seal is a little les protected...

[annasea]

Actually, if your reg is yoke vs. DIN, you might find you're better off with it 'upsidedown.' I have a DIN XTX200, but I spend most of the time using a DIN to yoke adapter on it due to rental tanks so I find when the 1st stage is upsidedown, I'm less inclined to hit my head on it while diving due to the slightly lower profile.