Lifting Doubles

[BluewaterSail]

The topic of the challenge of lifting heavy equipment came up on another thread. I thought that I would break this particular question out on its own.

What tricks have you found useful to deal with lifting and moving doubles around, when you don't have a buddy conveniently placed to assist?

From the floor to a table
From the ground into a car
From the car back to the ground
up stairs
down stairs
etc

[elan]

no tricks just following common recommendations for weight lifting, back straight, stable legs position, lifting with the legs.
That applies to lifting from the floor to the table table and to the car.
I use a cart to haul them around if the surface allows it, otherwise I put the back plate on them and carry on the back, and again - the back is always straight

[Rainer]

Pretty much what elan said.

They're much easier to carry long distances on your back, so if possible, put a plate on them and walk them around. Having a truck has made loading and unloading a lot easier than when we just had the car. :)

[aquaregia]

I'm a fat dude. Doubles are a pretty small percentage of my body weight.

Bend at the knees, straight back, jdi.

[DevonDiver]

Umm... sidemount :D

[AfterDark]

This is one of the reasons I use doubles without connecting manifolds. Until I mount them on the B/P they are single tanks.

[Kevrumbo]

Option 1:
Grab valves (not isolator crossbar!), one for each hand --perform partial/modified Hang Clean (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/OlympicLifts/HangClean.html) lift and load into truck. (Best lift technique if the liftover distance from the ground to the bed of your truck is not more than 20 inches.)

Option 2:
Tilt doubles, grab neck of one tank with right hand and hold bottom end of other tank with left hand --perform partial/modified Front Squat (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/OlympicLifts/FrontSquat.html) lift technique and load into truck.

With either option, recommend first starting off in the weightroom of a gym/health club for a couple of months. . .

[KD8NPB]

Lift by valves onto a chair
Sit on chair
Don harness
Walk to destination

I carry them on the passenger seat of my car and do the same thing in it. If I'm gear up at the water, I'll try to find a pier or something I can put them on, so all I have to do is put my back to the pier.

[ajduplessis]

Elan nailed it.

[kathydee]

Agreed, using a backplate saves lots of strain!

Also, just buy one of these tables from Home Depot: Garage Workbench from Husky | The Home Depot - Model 17185155 (http://www.homedepot.com/buy/tools-hardware-tool-storage-tool-storage-workstations-saw-horses-workbenches/husky-x-workhorse-power-tool-stand-heavy-duty-sawhorse-and-worktable-holds-750-lbs-232-in-w-x-212-in-d-x-307-in-h-175912.html)

store the tanks flat on it in your garage, take it to the dive site for set up. Between the table and BP you should never have to lift again except on/off the back when getting fills :).

[BluewaterSail]

Thanks guys. Some really good ideas here.

I'm trying to prepare myself for the next time I find a little extra in the checking account after paying the bills. Buying my own doubles is the next item on the shopping list.:D

[Divin'Hoosier]

Option 2:
Tilt doubles, grab neck of one tank with right hand and hold bottom end of other tank with left hand --perform partial/modified Front Squat (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/OlympicLifts/FrontSquat.html) lift technique and load into truck.


I'm on the smallish side and this is the technique I prefer. I've lifted my doubles (HP100s) hundreds of times without issue or injury this way. Also, as others have said, when transporting them longer distances (more than just 10' or so) they are always either on my back or on a cart of some sort.

[Randy43068]

Agreed. I also take a moment to focus and tighten my but, abs and back before doing the heft. Any twin full of gas is heavy and cumbersome to get hold of.

I'm reluctant to put my hand on the bottom of a tank for lifting on 130s. I can't get a good grip and my hand is always in the way when I want to set 'em down.


no tricks just following common recommendations for weight lifting, back straight, stable legs position, lifting with the legs.
That applies to lifting from the floor to the table table and to the car.
I use a cart to haul them around if the surface allows it, otherwise I put the back plate on them and carry on the back, and again - the back is always straight

[j2s]

no tricks just following common recommendations for weight lifting, back straight, stable legs position, lifting with the legs.
That applies to lifting from the floor to the table table and to the car.
I use a cart to haul them around if the surface allows it, otherwise I put the back plate on them and carry on the back, and again - the back is always straight Ditto....

[mathauck0814]

Getting stronger is about the best advice there is. Diving (especially tech diving) can be pretty demanding.

[PfcAJ]

You're gunna want to lift them with your back using a jerking, twisting motion. Lean out as far as possible when you do it.

[kotik]

I'm reluctant to put my hand on the bottom of a tank for lifting on 130s. I can't get a good grip and my hand is always in the way when I want to set 'em down.
For handling my 130's I keep a loop strap made of a piece of webbing and a triglide, maybe 20" diameter. This goes between the tank bottoms and hangs from my right shoulder. That way I can hold a valve with my left hand they're level and don't hang too low. Then, I can walk around with them and open doors, etc. with my right hand.

[Randy43068]

It sounds good, but I'm having trouble visualizing it.


For handling my 130's I keep a loop strap made of a piece of webbing and a triglide, maybe 20" diameter. This goes between the tank bottoms and hangs from my right shoulder. That way I can hold a valve with my left hand they're level and don't hang too low. Then, I can walk around with them and open doors, etc. with my right hand.

---------- Post added ----------


You're gunna want to lift them with your back using a jerking, twisting motion. Lean out as far as possible when you do it.

I've done this and had to stop when I felt searing pain, dropped to my knees after I heard a loud popping sound from my back. That's normal, isn't it? :D

[boulderjohn]

My biggest problem is getting my steel 108s into the back of my Toyota Highlander, especially when newly filled. I do all the "use your legs" stuff and with a big heave get them up to the back edge. I have to be careful not to land them on the plastic edging--I have already broken a piece off. Then I work them in the rest of the way.

I am looking at new cars right now, and the distance from the ground to the floor of the back gate is a critical consideration.

[fdarden]

It sounds good, but I'm having trouble visualizing it.



---------- Post added ----------



I've done this and had to stop when I felt searing pain, dropped to my knees after I heard a loud popping sound from my back. That's normal, isn't it? :D

I am having trouble after visualizing this! Ouch! Owning doubles and diving them much will help your upper body strength! Lift with your legs!

[TSandM]

Key #1: Conserve potential energy. Try never to let the tanks get to the ground, because once they have gotten there, you are committed to getting them OFF the ground somehow. Keeping them on a backplate helps; slip into the plate from the back of the car or truck, and take them to a table or bench that is not at ground level. If they do end up on the ground, and you can't lift them, try shrugging into the harness and getting onto your hands and knees, and finding something to pull up with.

Key #2: We are all much stronger lifting from straight arm to 90 degrees, than we are trying to lift above that point. If you have to lift tanks higher than that to get them in the car, get a stool or stand to allow you to raise yourSELF up to where you can primarily use your biceps, and not the pectorals and other much shorter muscles with poor moment arms.

Key #3: Lower body muscles are stronger than upper body muscles, ESPECIALLY in women. Do what you can with your legs. For me, for example, that includes lifting my doubles as high as I can, and then using a knee to push the bottoms of the tanks up over the lip of the back of the car.

Key #4: For most people, diving is a buddy sport. Get help. (This goes for big, strong guys, too, who are going to regret all the doubles they dead lifted when they're about 45 and their backs go out.) Don't let ego get in the way of doing something rational.

Key #5: (For women) Guys like to carry heavy stuff and be helpful. Don't disappoint them. :)

[mahjong]

By which you mean you're fat, right?


I'm a fat dude. Doubles are a pretty small percentage of my body weight.

Bend at the knees, straight back, jdi.

---------- Post added ----------

Excellent!




Key #1: Conserve potential energy. Try never to let the tanks get to the ground, because once they have gotten there, you are committed to getting them OFF the ground somehow. Keeping them on a backplate helps; slip into the plate from the back of the car or truck, and take them to a table or bench that is not at ground level. If they do end up on the ground, and you can't lift them, try shrugging into the harness and getting onto your hands and knees, and finding something to pull up with.

Key #2: We are all much stronger lifting from straight arm to 90 degrees, than we are trying to lift above that point. If you have to lift tanks higher than that to get them in the car, get a stool or stand to allow you to raise yourSELF up to where you can primarily use your biceps, and not the pectorals and other much shorter muscles with poor moment arms.

Key #3: Lower body muscles are stronger than upper body muscles, ESPECIALLY in women. Do what you can with your legs. For me, for example, that includes lifting my doubles as high as I can, and then using a knee to push the bottoms of the tanks up over the lip of the back of the car.

Key #4: For most people, diving is a buddy sport. Get help. (This goes for big, strong guys, too, who are going to regret all the doubles they dead lifted when they're about 45 and their backs go out.) Don't let ego get in the way of doing something rational.

Key #5: (For women) Guys like to carry heavy stuff and be helpful. Don't disappoint them. :)

[PfcAJ]

Key #1: Conserve potential energy. Try never to let the tanks get to the ground, because once they have gotten there, you are committed to getting them OFF the ground somehow. Keeping them on a backplate helps; slip into the plate from the back of the car or truck, and take them to a table or bench that is not at ground level. If they do end up on the ground, and you can't lift them, try shrugging into the harness and getting onto your hands and knees, and finding something to pull up with.

Key #2: We are all much stronger lifting from straight arm to 90 degrees, than we are trying to lift above that point. If you have to lift tanks higher than that to get them in the car, get a stool or stand to allow you to raise yourSELF up to where you can primarily use your biceps, and not the pectorals and other much shorter muscles with poor moment arms.

Key #3: Lower body muscles are stronger than upper body muscles, ESPECIALLY in women. Do what you can with your legs. For me, for example, that includes lifting my doubles as high as I can, and then using a knee to push the bottoms of the tanks up over the lip of the back of the car.

Key #4: For most people, diving is a buddy sport. Get help. (This goes for big, strong guys, too, who are going to regret all the doubles they dead lifted when they're about 45 and their backs go out.) Don't let ego get in the way of doing something rational.

Key #5: (For women) Guys like to carry heavy stuff and be helpful. Don't disappoint them. :)

Key #6: Work out. Diving is physical, especially dives that require more than one tank.

[James R]

Get lighter tanks or a stronger back (also stronger core, legs, and arms) hehe :D

[Randy43068]

Stay in shape to dive, don't dive to stay in shape.

[JamesK]

Hire a sherpa.

[down4fun]

Option 1:
Option 2:
Tilt doubles, grab neck of one tank with right hand and hold bottom end of other tank with left hand --perform partial/modified Front Squat (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/OlympicLifts/FrontSquat.html) lift technique and load into truck.

With either option, recommend first starting off in the weightroom of a gym/health club for a couple of months. . .

I found on steel doubles where the bottom is rounded wearing some gloves would help keep my hand from slipping off when using this technique

[boulderjohn]

What I found works best is going to Cave Adventurers with my doubles in the back of the van, pointing to them, and watching Edd pick them up and carry them away.

[klausi]

Do deadlifts in the gym or let the tank monkey in the shop where you fill them do it :)

[rlynch]

Beg some to do it for you?
AJ, not nice :)
As we say in nc MTFU, but then again the boat I dive has an elevator :) so I'm a wuss
Oh and if your short don't lift you buddies hp120's make Hume do it :)

Seriously though they are a 100 lbs, grab the valves and kick them up with you knee into the truck/car keep you back straight etc. tanks are just part of the deal.

[tracydr]

For handling my 130's I keep a loop strap made of a piece of webbing and a triglide, maybe 20" diameter. This goes between the tank bottoms and hangs from my right shoulder. That way I can hold a valve with my left hand they're level and don't hang too low. Then, I can walk around with them and open doors, etc. with my right hand.
I like this idea because even my AL 63 is slightly too long to comfortably pick up by the neck. It's hard sometimes for me to carry one tank more than about 50 feet or so without having it on my back.
haven't tried the doubles,yet.
I can tell you that Catalina, with humping gear all over town was a workout. Getting up and down that ramp to the express with two big bags, weight belt and tank, woo heheh! And, we had a 3rd floor room in town. If it hadn't been for them letting us keep gear in the laundry room and my wonderful hubby pushing the cart through town most of the time, I would not have made it through the week!
i need to join the gym, or at least jump in my pool a lot more often!

---------- Post added ----------

For anything heavy, like feed bags, or tanks, try not to let them get on the ground. Use your knee to help heft them up to the back of the truck, then into the truck, like TSandM says. Always use the lower legs as much as possible. They're much stronger than your arms. Never, ever bend sideways when lifting!
Use carts, wheelbarrows and help whenever possible.

---------- Post added ----------

If you have a pink tank and gear, chances are, somebody will carry it for you!:D

[kotik]

It sounds good, but I'm having trouble visualizing it.

Here's a couple of visual aids--
126777
126778

[TSandM]

AJ, not nice http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/images/smilies/More%20Smiles/icosm14.gif

No, he's right. If you are going to do diving that involves heavy gear, get as fit as you can to manage heavy gear.

Unfortunately, he's also young. When you get to a certain age, there is only so much you can do with your body, and then you have to work with your brain.

[lynch]

I think I coudn't handle that alone. I need someone who could me putting it up.

[Simon-]

Carrying doubles??

Carrying doubles??

Hmmmm

Isn't that what the DM's are for ;)

[BluewaterSail]

This is actually quite facinating to watch. It seems that there are 3 approaches. If it was a poll, I wonder how the doubles-users would divide out:

1) Brute force (rely solely on muscle power)
2) Technique (enhance muscle power safely with intelligent approach)
3) Avoidance (Find someone else to do the work)


Just fascinating!

[Jim Lapenta]

Key #1: Conserve potential energy. Try never to let the tanks get to the ground, because once they have gotten there, you are committed to getting them OFF the ground somehow. Keeping them on a backplate helps; slip into the plate from the back of the car or truck, and take them to a table or bench that is not at ground level. If they do end up on the ground, and you can't lift them, try shrugging into the harness and getting onto your hands and knees, and finding something to pull up with.

Key #2: We are all much stronger lifting from straight arm to 90 degrees, than we are trying to lift above that point. If you have to lift tanks higher than that to get them in the car, get a stool or stand to allow you to raise yourSELF up to where you can primarily use your biceps, and not the pectorals and other much shorter muscles with poor moment arms.

Key #3: Lower body muscles are stronger than upper body muscles, ESPECIALLY in women. Do what you can with your legs. For me, for example, that includes lifting my doubles as high as I can, and then using a knee to push the bottoms of the tanks up over the lip of the back of the car.

Key #4: For most people, diving is a buddy sport. Get help. (This goes for big, strong guys, too, who are going to regret all the doubles they dead lifted when they're about 45 and their backs go out.) Don't let ego get in the way of doing something rational.

Key #5: (For women) Guys like to carry heavy stuff and be helpful. Don't disappoint them. :)

We really don't like to carry heavy stuff. We just think it impresses you when you see us do it. Neanderthal portion of the brain takes over. Ugg lift heavy stuff for tiny weak female. Impress you. Then you make us sandwich and bring drink.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

[claymore]

This thread is why I'm looking at side mount if I go to doubles. There was a time when I would not worry or think about picking up 100# of dead weight. Sometime after I was 35 when I told my body to do something it would say "I have to think about that for a moment", after 50 I would think about doing some things and my body would say "don't even think about it it isn't going to happen." As you get older the, this is not going to happen, come more often. The only way to slow the progression down is to spend a fair amount of time in the gym.

[LandonL]

Here's a couple of visual aids--
126777
126778

I like this method.

[elan]

Here's a couple of visual aids--
126777
126778

Nice

Kruto

[Chief Dave L]

All of the above ideas are great. One thing that I do is have a set of doubles on a work table in my den set up with my backplate and wing, steel 100's. Once a day I don them and do three trips around the house and several trips up and down my basement steps as exercise. I'm 65 and find this helps keep me in shape for climbing a boat ladder or walking out from a shore dive. It only takes a few minutes but the results are wonderful.

Dave

[BluewaterSail]

All of the above ideas are great. One thing that I do is have a set of doubles on a work table in my den set up with my backplate and wing, steel 100's. Once a day I don them and do three trips around the house and several trips up and down my basement steps as exercise. I'm 65 and find this helps keep me in shape for climbing a boat ladder or walking out from a shore dive. It only takes a few minutes but the results are wonderful.

Dave

That sounds like a wonderful idea. Really targetted exercise towards the goal. Also a good argument for finally buying my own tanks rather than renting.
Thanks!

[JahJahwarrior]

Targeted exercise is a great idea, but as I'm sure you know, the tanks are heavy. I've seen plenty of people stumble walking on much easier surfaces than residential stairs or across rugs and such. Might be a good idea to carry a phone with you incase you fall, no matter what your age, physical condition, or fitness situation.

For a while I was diving the same heavy doubles frequently, now I'm diving lighter doubles less frequently, and I ended up injuring some muscles, most likely due to trying to throw tanks around. It's all about working smarter, not harder, and knowing when to slow down to lift more carefully. Oh, and about finding a good deal on lp85's :D

[tracydr]

Just had my c-spine MRI yesterday. Big fat herniation of the disk at c4-5, right above my fusion. :( may be awhile before I lift any doubles. I suspect I'm looking at another neck surgery.
Dangit! I'm hoping to do GUE this year!
I need to stop unloading all those trailers of feed!

[BluewaterSail]

Just had my c-spine MRI yesterday. Big fat herniation of the disk at c4-5, right above my fusion. :( may be awhile before I lift any doubles. I suspect I'm looking at another neck surgery.
Dangit! I'm hoping to do GUE this year!
I need to stop unloading all those trailers of feed!

Gosh, thats too bad. I wish for you a speedy recovery!!

[tstormdiver]

I have a set of LP 108's & HP 130's. I only lift them when I absolutely must. I'm not shy about asking for help, if there is any around. If I can, I get them elevated, put the back plate on them & back pack them around. If I have to load them into my truck. I get a sturdy wooden kitchen chair. I lift them onto the chair, then get into the bed & lift them the rest of the way. I can only lift them to about lower chest level. If I must move them across the floor, I will typically "walk" them across the floor. I really have no wish to injure myslef, so I am very careful about how I lift them.

[Jaydubya]

Oh and if your short don't lift you buddies hp120's make him do it :)


MTFU, dude :D Those are really tall tanks. I'm planning to undouble the hp120s for use as single tanks as soon as I can rebuild the valves on the 104s.

[rx7diver]

MTFU, dude :D Those are really tall tanks. I'm planning to undouble the hp120s for use as single tanks as soon as I can rebuild the valves on the 104s.

Jaydubya,

I think you'll find that HP 120's seem much taller when worn as singles, rather than as doubles!

Safe Diving,

rx7diver

[Dive the World]

I don't dive doubles (yet) but most of the guys who I see usually tend to leave their wing setup on it and that way put it on their back between distances including in and out of their trucks.

[Jaydubya]

Jaydubya,

I think you'll find that HP 120's seem much taller when worn as singles, rather than as doubles!

Safe Diving,

rx7diver


Very true, I used to dive them as singles -- but I don't think Rob would have had trouble lifting single 120s into the back of his truck.

[rlynch]

MTFU, dude :D Those are really tall tanks. I'm planning to undouble the hp120s for use as single tanks as soon as I can rebuild the valves on the 104s.

well i've lifted those 120 enough times - then i got smart :) But they are no problems just long tanks for the vertically challanged to lift up into the truck. No troupble really. Where they sit as singles is a function of where you rig them. they are exactly the same tank (valve and all) when done as singles or doubles. the manifold knob extends the length when doubled up but otherwise the same.

They are too long for me - but i would dive them anyway if that was my only option.